What about adding a 1 time reprieve quest for reds?

[darkblade70]

No. There needs to be a consequence for being a murderer. If you want to partake in consensual pvp there is a system in place for that. Join a faction.
If you want to murder people, fine, pay the price.

If you really have seen the errors of your ways and you are so innocent, then how about this... Every body has a button on their paperdoll... if the use this option, they will lose all murder counts, and imiediatly go blue... but by using this option you forfiet the right to ever again cause harm to another player. You cannot attack, nor defend yourself from attack against another player. If you have really changed your ways, or bought an account with a red and dont want to kill people as some of you are claiming, then this option would be perfectly acceptable. You can now use your leet scrolled out char in tram, or wherever you want, but the price would be that you can never again partake in combat against another real person again.

There must be a price for negative actions. People need to stop complaining about that especially when they know what that price is going into it. Is it possible to go red and not be a "murderer" not technically, but for the sake of argument lets say yes. Is it possible to go red and get 100s or 1,000s of murder counts and not be a murderer. No. And those are the players this post is geared towards.

Perhaps you failed to read 80% of the thread, but the concern is targeted more for players who are returning to a UO that's completely changed from the time they chose to go red.

In their time a red could engage in almost all of UO content. Now reds can only engage in a quarter of the content at most -- and none of the content that really matters these days.

So when people chose to go red knowing the consequences at the time, that's one things, but when the consequences dramatically change (i.e. being prevented from engaging in the greater majority of content) years down the line, that's something they wouldn't have consented to most likely.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

No. There needs to be a consequence for being a murderer. If you want to partake in consensual pvp there is a system in place for that. Join a faction.
If you want to murder people, fine, pay the price.

If you really have seen the errors of your ways and you are so innocent, then how about this... Every body has a button on their paperdoll... if the use this option, they will lose all murder counts, and imiediatly go blue... but by using this option you forfiet the right to ever again cause harm to another player. You cannot attack, nor defend yourself from attack against another player. If you have really changed your ways, or bought an account with a red and dont want to kill people as some of you are claiming, then this option would be perfectly acceptable. You can now use your leet scrolled out char in tram, or wherever you want, but the price would be that you can never again partake in combat against another real person again.

There must be a price for negative actions. People need to stop complaining about that especially when they know what that price is going into it. Is it possible to go red and not be a "murderer" not technically, but for the sake of argument lets say yes. Is it possible to go red and get 100s or 1,000s of murder counts and not be a murderer. No. And those are the players this post is geared towards.

There are many souls that cry for forgiveness from the heart of Hell. But it must be noted...they had the chance before they found themselves there, laid bare before the Lord of the Abyss.

These red players should have considered the consequences of their actions while they were killing and stealing from honest, innocent blue players.

No. I say no to any amnesty, even if it is granted by some half-a$$ quest.

I agree that they should have the chance to redeem themselves, but there should be a cost...and I do not mean gold.


Any red that seeks to become blue should have to become grey, and killable in Trammel. If they choose to walk amongst us, they should be subject to the justice they rightly deserve.

They have been banished to the land of graves for a reason.

And now they cry out for mercy.

What mercy did they show to the community when they had the chance? None.

Allow them into Trammel, but make the attackable to all.

Once they have served their sentence, and felt the pain that they inflicted upon everyone else, then...and only then...should they be allowed to join respectable society.

 

[Larry]

What about a buyable "blue" token for $15 like advanced characters?

Would give EA some revenue and keep people from abusing it.

 

[Gellor]

What is still being failed to realize is that "returning" reds have 4 other character slots so they can participate in all content.

I've got scrolled out reds that are beyond red(aka years to turn blue type) and I still say NO to anything that involves in game resources.

Most new reds have gone red due to being a raiding guild so they have plenty of money or can GET plenty of money to buy every last count off. That being money or items needed to "quest" and burn off counts.

I wouldn't be against something like an hour long quest that takes no ingame resources(aka buy stuff off) that would burn ONE count that they can use once per day but that shuts off the ability to unattend burn off counts. Maybe like escorts or something similar.

As for the justice knights example... that is more far fetched than the "defended a spawn" claim. Your guy is blue... he is attacking a blue(whether he has alternates who are red)... he can and should get a count.

Again, I'll stick with the claim of "if you want to do something in private, go do a peerless". Otherwise, suck it up and deal with the consequences of attacking a blue. Spawns are a public event... anyone can show up to them and do them. If you don't want a red tamer, leave the blues alone that show up. I have NO sympathy for those guys.

A true red reprieve should ONLY happen if there is a game bug that causes massive amounts of counts that were not deserved: aka the bug that caused a defender of an attack to get a count.

 

[Canucklehead73]

Well personally I have only killed reds in my fairly limited PvP experiences, so I have never gone red and have only ever had a couple counts against me for killing blues helping reds. But imho I think it is quite obvious alot of "blues" will murder players and simply banksit while they sleep/work in RL, until they are at zero counts again, rinse and repeat. They are technically "Reds" with an over draft. They are in fact murderers.

So for someone to say a red deserves to be red since he murdered players is not exactly true or remotely fair.

If a red or a blue kills one of the "blue" murderers why should they really be able to give a count? I know the attcking first rules... but imho they are actual reds.

But you would think in fact that a "blue" player should really only be a player who "never" instigates an attack on another "blue" player no?

On a side note I have always found it silly to have the red/blue/grey status in the first place... It should always be based on personal/visual interaction while PvPing imho.

For instance if I go to fel and run into a "red" or a "grey" I have NEVER met... Why do I know they are a murderer? or a ciminal? I suppose there could be some magical force that makes them "look" evil but I have not heard of it.

I have always felt the "red" player should in fact have a real reputation with me for me to know he is a killer... To everyone else he should appear "blue" I spose (if we keep colors as an example). Maybe until I use a UO target method to possible share his reputation with another player.... IF I want to eheheh.

So a bunch of players who dont know each other should not really have any colors imho

As for reds entering trammel and "joining" in with activities... I just figured they hated trammel no? Why would they want to come?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

The red flag...murderer...is like meeting Charles Manson.

If you were walking down the street, and met Charles Manson, would you assume him to be an okay guy?

Probably not.


In that same vein, if Charles Manson performed some quest, a good deed, would you simply forget what he did? Would you elect him to be the head of your Home Owners Association?


No. Probably not.

 

[Green Meanie]

As a person that has 2 blues between 12 chars i will say that i am prepaired to accept the following penaltys:

freely attackable by all players (probly the biggest)
nolonger protected by the town gaurds.
unable to use the virtues.
Freely lootable apon death with no pentaltys

Its not that i hate the tram play style i find it much less entertaining do to the incredably decreased challange. After every expansion on my two blues ive been able to find a month or two of fun and excitement in tram as i learn the ends and outs of the new content. I do occasionaly do tram when there is noone to fight , when the numbers are immpossibly against me ( ill do incredably) or when my guildes the few that do tram are doing something and ask for help.

All my favorite chars are red and becouse im able to simply log onto a blue and play tram how does it effect anything at all if my reds were able to go to tram and be blue while there. Trammies lose nothing. Pvpers may lose a few reds form time to time. Everyone except for a few cryers that dont want everyone to enjoy there game will be happy

 

[mr.blackmage]

The red flag...murderer...is like meeting Charles Manson.

If you were walking down the street, and met Charles Manson, would you assume him to be an okay guy?

Probably not.


In that same vein, if Charles Manson performed some quest, a good deed, would you simply forget what he did? Would you elect him to be the head of your Home Owners Association?


No. Probably not.

On that same vein, if you ran into a guy that killed 100 people like charles manson, some people may be more inclined to call that person a hero, vigilante, and yes, a murderer. To each their own. "Blue" and "Red" are so antiquated. Blues in fel are just reds playing an alt so they can't be attacked with impunity, and they can attack whoever they want.

Example: 20 blues wait until this other red and I are at half health, and then jump us both. We both res; all 20 blues are blue to us. They murdered us (vigilante? again; to each their own), yet they don't receive a count for it, and I get a count if I want any vengeance. Which gets to the root of the issue:

PKING Is the ONLY way to prevent griefing in this game, besides logging out. The unfortunate side effect is that it can also be used as griefing. And then there are different definitions of griefing. If 20 blues are "griefing" (I use that term very loosely) by sitting in the GZ and waiting until another red gets me to half life before jumping us both, then in MY (personal) perspective, they are no longer innocents. Sure, the game still has them flagged as blue, but they are obviously attempting to actively engage in PvP, with a safety net. Since it would be literally impossible for me to play this game without being a red (just isn't enough PvP, and EA has made it incredibly hard to flag grey nowadays without a red around), and blues aren't going to take counts since that means they can be attacked anywhere... The only way to HAVE an actual pvp experience in fel is to have people that can be attacked anywhere. How stupid would it be if everyone was blue? Obviously a better system would be to just have everyone pvp flagged in Fel, and then EA could try to implement a new criminal system.

My 2 cents regarding the topic: I've had a few accounts I've played, and all have had red characters. I think you will find this is the case with ANY *serious* pvper. Another side effect of being a serious pvper is that in general, that's all you do. Meaning having a spare 100+ mil to throw around in making a new character (not to mention macroing one up) isn't as likely to happen as compared to those that play solely blues. Yes, that would be cheaper than having to spend 5+ REAL LIFE YEARS burning off counts, but really, what do you think is more likely? That I would burn off the counts? Farm/beg for money? Or simply say "well, I guess that does it for UO".

Personally, I could probably just play someone elses account. But for those people that are tired of being red for whatever reason (just started playing again, tired of the ignored (dev wise) pvp scene, just not enough time and they want to just kill monsters and farm gold... whatever reason), why shouldn't their be an option. Why punish a human being (and that's what it is, when you get down to it) for playing a video game? Because certain people think it is justified? Even while telling them to make another character? That doesn't make any sense, it's hypocritical. All you're doing is forcing someone to waste their time for something they've already achieved, and I think one thing everyone on these forums can agree with; we've all wasted enough time in our lives.

So: Pro-reprieve, although I would probably never use it. I just don't understand why people feel the need for others to be punished for not conforming to their play style. 10 years ago, they MAY (debatable, of course) have had a point. Todays UO is not the old UO, and people need to realize this. Like .0001% of today's UO population have actually been "murdered" (as in did not wish to PvP in Fel whatsoever, yet were there... for whatever reason). My 10+k murder counts that I had were ALL from people I pvped against. I've killed maybe 50 random blues, which were all ressed, healed, and generally I helped them with whatever they were doing. They only got killed in the first place because; they were following me, they talked smack, or they didn't "look" like a pvmer (macro use, gear). A fair few of those blues got involved heavily in PvP after these encounters, especially after I took the time to give them some hints, and my ICQ for any further questions (and duels for the more ambitious). Now, that's within like 8 years. I would say it is very rare for someone to get "pked" nowadays, regardless of how many murder counts are given out.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

On that same vein, if you ran into a guy that killed 100 people like charles manson, some people may be more inclined to call that person a hero, vigilante, and yes, a murderer. To each their own.

Like Osama Bin Laden for example??

He killed how many innocent people? Yet, in certain parts of the world, he is considered a hero.

Not here though.


The concept of reds is simple.


You kill a bunch of innocent people, we remember your ass.


And don't lecture me on the merits of reds vs. blues. I lived it. I was the head of one of the largest anti-PK guilds in Ultima Online until they split the world.

I know that PKs added to the sense of community. You are barking up the wrong tree with me. I am not your average Trammie.

 

[Old Man of UO]

After reading these posts, I don't think this is a good idea.

Uo offered a one-time reprieve for all murderers when Trammel was introduced. If I remember this correctly, they reset all counts over 5 back to 4 and you were blue once again. As it turned out, many if not most of those went red again. So we are actually talking about a small percentage of the players who want this. We've already had the "1 time reprieve."

If you are talking about old vets returning and wanting a fresh start, the simplest thing to do is to stone skills and kill off the character, and restart a new one. Old vets rarely have anything over GM skills... otherwise they aren't old vets now are they.

There are just too many ways to abuse a system that would make it easy to switch between red and blue. Reading all these posts and suggestions, I have yet to see a good reason to implement this idea.

 

[RichDC]

I have "accidently" went red a few times, the reason being i had RPD on my suit (only a tiny amount mind, however once i went grey my fields and area spells targeted all blues/reds and within about 15mins i had recieved 8counts

However i play that char all the time and have actualy found it more fun being red

 

[darkblade70]

The red flag...murderer...is like meeting Charles Manson.

If you were walking down the street, and met Charles Manson, would you assume him to be an okay guy?

Probably not.


In that same vein, if Charles Manson performed some quest, a good deed, would you simply forget what he did? Would you elect him to be the head of your Home Owners Association?


No. Probably not.

lol..... you're kidding right?

This is a game.

Most people I know who PK'd back in the day did it for PvP purposes... not because they had the characteristics of a serial killer.

Being a PK back in the day was generally financially beneficial and entertaining because it allowed for extensive PvP opportunities.

To try to corelate video game PKer (i.e. anyone who plays ANY FPS) to someone with a serial killer's mentality or characteristics of one is just plain stupid...

People who try to characterize all PKs as trying to live out some horrific fantasy life where they can be the serial killer/ they always wanted to be in real life really need to stop and think about what they're saying... it's beyond rediculous. A huge portion of the video game world is directed/marketed towards violence: people who want to experience virtual violence is one thing, but to say that means they are like real life murderers... (learn to draw the line, please).

Not much else can be said about that.

Back on topic....

 

[Winker]

Ok my red has 540 counts on him! How much peance should he pay. coz thre is no way i am going blue standing around thats like 21600 hours

But i would like to be blue again, my char is an old one with personal bless deeds and AOS clothing so i dont want to delete him either

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

lol..... you're kidding right?

This is a game.

Most people I know who PK'd back in the day did it for PvP purposes... not because they had the characteristics of a serial killer.

Being a PK back in the day was generally financially beneficial and entertaining because it allowed for extensive PvP opportunities.

To try to corelate video game PKer (i.e. anyone who plays ANY FPS) to someone with a serial killer's mentality or characteristics of one is just plain stupid...

People who try to characterize all PKs as trying to live out some horrific fantasy life where they can be the serial killer/ they always wanted to be in real life really need to stop and think about what they're saying... it's beyond rediculous. A huge portion of the video game world is directed/marketed towards violence: people who want to experience virtual violence is one thing, but to say that means they are like real life murderers... (learn to draw the line, please).

Not much else can be said about that.

Back on topic....

Good God, are you really that dense?

It was just an example.

Really, some people here need to drool a little less, and think before they post.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Ok my red has 540 counts on him! How much peance should he pay. coz thre is no way i am going blue standing around thats like 21600 hours

But i would like to be blue again, my char is an old one with personal bless deeds and AOS clothing so i dont want to delete him either

Do the crime...serve the time.

 

[Stanton Of Pac]

ULTIMA ONLINE REPRIEVE QUEST
ver 8323043.32434​

1. Transfer all the Red's money, goods, possessions, pets, vendors, etc. to another character or a trustworthy (ie., he's physically in the same room with you when playing) friend.

2. Delete the character.

3. Start a new character, optionally with the same name.

4. Rebuild his stats as desired.

5. Transfer BACK the money, goods, possessions, etc., from step 1 above.

Quest over.

 

[mr.blackmage]

Like Osama Bin Laden for example??

He killed how many innocent people? Yet, in certain parts of the world, he is considered a hero.

Not here though.


The concept of reds is simple.


You kill a bunch of innocent people, we remember your ass.


And don't lecture me on the merits of reds vs. blues. I lived it. I was the head of one of the largest anti-PK guilds in Ultima Online until they split the world.

I know that PKs added to the sense of community. You are barking up the wrong tree with me. I am not your average Trammie.

Yes sure, like Osama Bin Laden, if you want to play Devil's Advocate like that. I'm assuming you know that isn't what I meant (since it is fairly evident in my language that I am from North America), but you're right, he is some peoples hero. My point was moreso though about someone being considered a murderer for killing murderers. It's completely arbitrary and changes from one persons opinion to the next. PvP isn't a "crime", nor is pking any longer. Yes, it's a feature left from a dead era of the game, but the only purpose it serves is to detract from pvp. It is not a control and check system anymore. Everyone who is in Fel knows that they can be pked, and they have a choice if they want to go there or not. IT should've been deleted when they implemented trammel.

Telling someone to spend 21,000 hours (and that's for someone with only a few counts) to go blue is pretty ignorant. It doesn't effect you whatsoever if there was a reprieve for that character. Where is this sense of community you are talking about? You would rather someone physically waste 21 THOUSAND hours, than have them play the game.

?

 

[Gellor]

mr.blackmage,
People don't just magically turn red.

Whether it is "defending" a spawn as some are arguing or other means, they killed blues, went red, and knew what they were doing.

Why should they have the slate wiped clean? Because they have a change of heart? rolleyes: What is to prevent them from instantly changing their mind again? Nothing.

They made their bed, they can sleep in it. No sympathy here and I play a red on a regular basis.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Telling someone to spend 21,000 hours (and that's for someone with only a few counts) to go blue is pretty ignorant. It doesn't effect you whatsoever if there was a reprieve for that character. Where is this sense of community you are talking about? You would rather someone physically waste 21 THOUSAND hours, than have them play the game.

?

2 things -

1. I am for a red reprieve, if there is some consequence to it. I did post an idea above. I think that reds should be able to do something in game, go grey instead of red, and be allowed to come to Trammel, where they would be freely attackable...give them a chance to see what it's like. While there, the counts should burn off much much faster. Risk vs. Reward...as the PKs in Fel love to tell blues that are trying to get Powerscrolls.


2. I would have far more sympathy for the reds that want to go blue had they not known in advance that being red was the consequence to their killing of innocents. It was that rampant and unchecked killing that caused OSI to have to split the world. These players thumbed their noses at being red, and didn't care enough to think of what they were doing to other players...now we have Trammel. And they want sympathy?

Not getting it from me.

 

[Endrik]

Ok my red has 540 counts on him! How much peance should he pay. coz thre is no way i am going blue standing around thats like 21600 hours

But i would like to be blue again, my char is an old one with personal bless deeds and AOS clothing so i dont want to delete him either

How much penance should he pay? 21600 hours. If you killed that many people then you dont deserve an easy out. You got the enjoyment and the thrill and the gold out of killing all those people, now you get the consequence. Weather its in a game or in real life there is always a consequence to your actions. Sure you would like him blue... all the people you killed would like their insurance, time, power scrolls, and items back, and for their frustration to be taken away as well. Guess what... thats not going to happen, so you will have to stand around bored out of your skull for 21600 if you want that char blue again. You already reaped the benefit, now you have to pay the price.

Its no wonder our country is in such a mess these days when nobody has ever been taught that there are consequences to their actions, that nothing is free, and that you dont always get what you want. I have played a red, and along with the benefits I have paid the price. I have killed people on my main blue, and I have put in the time to keep him blue, as well as refraining from fights that would turn me red. People need to grow up and take responsibility for their actions.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Some of you take this game way too seriously.

A returning player that hasn't played in years would like to play his best character in the lands that have comprised 99% of the expansions since he left. I don't get what the big deal is. A ONE TIME ONLY quest to repent the sins of the past doesn't seem like that much of a big deal to me, but then I don't take myself or the game too seriously. Some of you obviously do.

Get over it. I'm sorry your cyber feelings got hurt because you lost a fight to someone, but it's time to move on.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Some of you take this game way too seriously.

A returning player that hasn't played in years would like to play his best character in the lands that have comprised 99% of the expansions since he left. I don't get what the big deal is. A ONE TIME ONLY quest to repent the sins of the past doesn't seem like that much of a big deal to me, but then I don't take myself or the game too seriously. Some of you obviously do.

Get over it. I'm sorry your cyber feelings got hurt because you lost a fight to someone, but it's time to move on.

So for you, there should be no consequences for your in game actions?

Tell me, did you start playing before there was a Trammel? I do not mean this as an insult, I am just curious.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Its no wonder our country is in such a mess these days when nobody has ever been taught that there are consequences to their actions, that nothing is free, and that you dont always get what you want. I have played a red, and along with the benefits I have paid the price. I have killed people on my main blue, and I have put in the time to keep him blue, as well as refraining from fights that would turn me red. People need to grow up and take responsibility for their actions.

 

[Connor_Graham]

So for you, there should be no consequences for your in game actions?

Please quote ANYWHERE, EVER, IN ANY POST that I've ever said there shouldn't be consequences.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

A returning player that hasn't played in years would like to play his best character in the lands that have comprised 99% of the expansions since he left. I don't get what the big deal is. A ONE TIME ONLY quest to repent the sins of the past doesn't seem like that much of a big deal to me, but then I don't take myself or the game too seriously. Some of you obviously do.

Get over it. I'm sorry your cyber feelings got hurt because you lost a fight to someone, but it's time to move on.

If they can just complete a quest and POOF! they are no longer red, then what is the consequence.

Oh yeah...and take your self-righteous attitude and stick it.

 

[ColterDC]

I'm more of the opposite opinion.

You should never be able to lose murder counts.

So sick of seeing scumbag blues sitting afk in Luna all day burning off counts because they ganked some truely innocent blue.

Alot of the blues who PvP regularly are bigger piles of crap than any of the reds I've met.

 

[Connor_Graham]

If they can just complete a quest and POOF! they are no longer red, then what is the consequence.

The consequence is the only one they've had to deal with since the red/blue system becaue outdated, they can't go to Tram, which they have held against them every single day. There is no other consequence for being red.

Oh yeah...and take your self-righteous attitude and stick it.

Funny, it wasn't self-righteous, but since you seem to have taken it that way, I'd say someone felt the truth behind the statement.


Oh yeah, you can take your immature insults and stick them right back where they came from. I don't let statements from anonymous people on an internet forum that take a game too seriously bother me.

 

[Gellor]

I'm more of the opposite opinion.

You should never be able to lose murder counts.

So sick of seeing scumbag blues sitting afk in Luna all day burning off counts because they ganked some truely innocent blue.

Alot of the blues who PvP regularly are bigger piles of crap than any of the reds I've met.

x2
Seen that more often than not on blue "PvPers".

I'd just as soon trust a red than one of the snake oil blues that unattend lose counts rolleyes: At least the red is more honest.

The consequence is the only one they've had to deal with since the red/blue system becaue outdated, they can't go to Tram, which they have held against them every single day. There is no other consequence for being red.

And they still have four or more other blues. They chose to go red whether way back in the day or recently. They can suck it up and lose their "best" char that went red. rolleyes: Guess they can suffer with 10 or 15 scrolled out chars for their PvM pleasure

Plus, more often than not, a good PvP template is going to suck big nuts in PvM. Silly fact of the matter.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

The consequence is the only one they've had to deal with since the red/blue system becaue outdated, they can't go to Tram, which they have held against them every single day. There is no other consequence for being red.

And you are advocating for them being able to do away with that consequence.

So I ask you again, do you think there should be no consequences for what they have done?

And for the record, it was this post by you that started the "immature insults"...

Some of you take this game way too seriously.

A returning player that hasn't played in years would like to play his best character in the lands that have comprised 99% of the expansions since he left. I don't get what the big deal is. A ONE TIME ONLY quest to repent the sins of the past doesn't seem like that much of a big deal to me, but then I don't take myself or the game too seriously. Some of you obviously do.

Get over it. I'm sorry your cyber feelings got hurt because you lost a fight to someone, but it's time to move on.

If you cannot see how that was an insulting post, then I don't think I can explain it to you.

But for what it is worth, I would much prefer a civil dialog to trading silly insults.

 

[Malimus]

1 time reprieve quest for reds?

I think i would have to vote yes for this idea. Only ONE time and if you ever take even one count again you go perma red. Playing a red to a lot of players just is not any fun anymore and or its very hard to compete with a lot of the hacker's/zerg guilds. You have to remember not all pk's are these big jerk's everyone makes them out to be. When i used to pk i would only take gold only once and a while and res after every kill. It was the thrill of the hunt and the battle to come. Not items and gold. I played the Anti-pk side as well. But PvP in UO is basically dead to me now. My PK playstyle doesnt exist anymore. The idea of turning my red that now just collects dust into a blue character i can use again is a good idea imo. Will it happen?.... I doubt it.

 

[darkblade70]

Good God, are you really that dense?

It was just an example.

Really, some people here need to drool a little less, and think before they post.

Clearly you are failing beyond everyone else here to think before they post.

At least people who disagree with a reprieval method just do so because of in-game reasons primarily. You on the other hand... lol...

This is a GAME, yet you associate in-game actions with real life inclinations and thus people should be punished the same as they would in game as they would in life? You know how stupid you sound when you give examples that relate in game murderers to real life serial killers? Get a clue, please, and move on.

 

[darkblade70]

1 time reprieve quest for reds?

I think i would have to vote yes for this idea. Only ONE time and if you ever take even one count again you go perma red. Playing a red to a lot of players just is not any fun anymore and or its very hard to compete with a lot of the hacker's/zerg guilds. You have to remember not all pk's are these big jerk's everyone makes them out to be. When i used to pk i would only take gold only once and a while and res after every kill. It was the thrill of the hunt and the battle to come. Not items and gold. I played the Anti-pk side as well. But PvP in UO is basically dead to me now. My PK playstyle doesnt exist anymore. The idea of turning my red that now just collects dust into a blue character i can use again is a good idea imo. Will it happen?.... I doubt it.

I agree.

It should be a 1 time option. And if you go red again (i.e. you didn't learn you lesson or weren't more careful) then you should be stuck -- the punishment for reds going blue again is that they need to be extra careful from then on.

 

[darkblade70]

And you are advocating for them being able to do away with that consequence.

So I ask you again, do you think there should be no consequences for what they have done?

And for the record, it was this post by you that started the "immature insults"...



If you cannot see how that was an insulting post, then I don't think I can explain it to you.

But for what it is worth, I would much prefer a civil dialog to trading silly insults.

Btw no one here is making claim for an easy quest. People are making suggestions to a quest/item etc. that has a serious level of engagement or money sink to aquire (personally I think the money sink is not a good idea). This means there ARE consequences... I'm not sure how you keep skimming over this fact.

 

[Stanton Of Pac]

1 time reprieve quest for reds?

I think i would have to vote yes for this idea. Only ONE time and if you ever take even one count again you go perma red. Playing a red to a lot of players just is not any fun anymore and or its very hard to compete with a lot of the hacker's/zerg guilds. You have to remember not all pk's are these big jerk's everyone makes them out to be. When i used to pk i would only take gold only once and a while and res after every kill. It was the thrill of the hunt and the battle to come. Not items and gold. I played the Anti-pk side as well. But PvP in UO is basically dead to me now. My PK playstyle doesnt exist anymore. The idea of turning my red that now just collects dust into a blue character i can use again is a good idea imo. Will it happen?.... I doubt it.

Again, Save his stuff, delete the character, start a new one. In the end your Red is just a bunch of 0s and 1s on someone else's computer, right? If it's not your "playstyle" anymore, go make up another set of 0s and 1s that suit you better.

OTOH, if your "Red" is really camped out between your ears then maybe a "quest" to remove it isn't the right answer either. You'd really be talking about changing "you".

...I've wondered sometimes if given the choice between having all their counts wiped OR being allowed to go on a 1-day killing spree on Trammel, what most Reds would choose?

 

[Surgeries]

What is still being failed to realize is that "returning" reds have 4 other character slots so they can participate in all content.

I've got scrolled out reds that are beyond red(aka years to turn blue type) and I still say NO to anything that involves in game resources.

Most new reds have gone red due to being a raiding guild so they have plenty of money or can GET plenty of money to buy every last count off. That being money or items needed to "quest" and burn off counts.

I wouldn't be against something like an hour long quest that takes no ingame resources(aka buy stuff off) that would burn ONE count that they can use once per day but that shuts off the ability to unattend burn off counts. Maybe like escorts or something similar.

As for the justice knights example... that is more far fetched than the "defended a spawn" claim. Your guy is blue... he is attacking a blue(whether he has alternates who are red)... he can and should get a count.

Again, I'll stick with the claim of "if you want to do something in private, go do a peerless". Otherwise, suck it up and deal with the consequences of attacking a blue. Spawns are a public event... anyone can show up to them and do them. If you don't want a red tamer, leave the blues alone that show up. I have NO sympathy for those guys.

A true red reprieve should ONLY happen if there is a game bug that causes massive amounts of counts that were not deserved: aka the bug that caused a defender of an attack to get a count.

QFO

(Quoted For Objectivity)

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Clearly you are failing beyond everyone else here to think before they post.

At least people who disagree with a reprieval method just do so because of in-game reasons primarily. You on the other hand... lol...

This is a GAME, yet you associate in-game actions with real life inclinations and thus people should be punished the same as they would in game as they would in life? You know how stupid you sound when you give examples that relate in game murderers to real life serial killers? Get a clue, please, and move on.

Not nearly as stupid as you when you fail to understand that I am talking about in game consequences.

The game was setup to punish PKs with being red.

Hey, maybe they will change it? Who knows, they have already turned UO into a Trammie-Care Bear land anyway...why not just forgive all the PK reds too?

It's fun watching UO disintegrate into a WoW clone.

 

[mr.blackmage]

mr.blackmage,
People don't just magically turn red.


Why should they have the slate wiped clean? Because they have a change of heart? rolleyes:

Because it's a dumb, old, system.

 

[Violence]

Right now "dissintegrating" into a WoW clone will do more good than harm.. IF they manage it- in 2 or 3 of its core aspects including combat as a whole the game is beyond remedy save for a complete re-work.

And I must agree that you sound like you're taking this all too seriously. Somehow you don't convince me you know it is "Just A Game". That said, I hope you don't come up with more drama about how people insult you 24/7 on the boards... Oh wait! You already replied telling us you are insulted. Too late. :bowdown:

Srsly though? Murder-count wiping tokens.. Nobody so far has offered a better solution.

 

[Gellor]

Because it's a dumb, old, system.

Then please feel free to start a separate post about a new murder system and "all the flaws" with the current one.

There is no way I would support a "simple buyout" for a reprieve nor a "simple buyout" to lose murder counts. Especially not if the reprieve was more than once per account(no, not once per char or once per shard... but once per account)

The only thing I would remotely support is a once a day quest that would eat once murder count and would replace the sit at the gate for 40 hour system. It should be a quest that takes about one hour and not involve turning in items. If any items are involved it should be one NPC giving you an item to take to another NPC.

A vast majority of reds are "rolling" in money because a good portion of them are involved in scrolls. So any system involving money or items to turn in won't be effective. To illustrate the point, I am "poor" by red standards and I have multiple highly developed characters with above average equipment on six or seven shards. With very little effort, I could liquidate items and scrolls to get 500 mil

All you's from here on are directed at reds in general
Again, I stand by the fact that nobody magically turns red no matter the excuse... it still comes down to you killed a blue, you got a murder count, you deal with being red. Whether it was you trying to defend your attempt to have a private spawn, killing script miners, or just flat out killing everything, nobody was twisting your arm to attack a blue.

I'd LOVE to see the devs further top the murder system off with a "blue to red" ping pong counter. After you go from blue to red a certain number of times, you are turned red PERMANENTLY.

As it sits right now, the "penalty" for being red is very minor except for maybe Siege:

• Freely attackable - that is hardly an issue since most reds want to fight.
• Can't buy from vendors - they have 4-6 other characters that are blue that can buy stuff for the red char... assuming they don't have a guild backing them.
• Stuck in Fel - they have 4-6 other characters that are blue that can go play with the latest eye candy trammy event.

So tell me again how rough reds have it? rolleyes:

I know of one guy who ended up turning 4 out of his 5 chars red... mostly on accident because he wasn't paying attention to what char he was attacking with

I've got five reds over two shards on two accounts and have no issues with being able to get equipment to them or tram it up as I desire. Only one is close to being able to go blue and somehow I deal with it.

 

[Mordocuo]

Because it's a dumb, old, system.

This is the person who's signature used to say "keeping the PVP scene in check" for so many years. Now you are in favor of losing all of those counts that for years you were so proud of obtaining? The same guy that used to brag on so many boards on how many counts he had? Now wants them all washed away. The "old, dumb system" that used to make you feel so proud?

Lets be honest here--if you turned RED from defending a Champ Spawn or from protecting your friends, and wanted to be blue you would have spent the time as you got counts so that you could control the amount of time you would have to use to burn off counts.

The honest answer answer from you REDS that want to be blue again is that you have tons of kills and to become blue would take months if not years to work off.

Maybe as you killed your 100th or 1000th victim you should have thought about this. Now add in the fact that you can have 7 slots now so your saying you have no blues? Oh so then you have hundreds of counts on multiple characters? And suddenly now you want reprieves?

Give me a break. And the REDS have always called Trammel players whinners--look in the mirror and see the real whinners of UO.

Ill tell you what--REDS get a reprieve when Power Scrolls go into Trammel exactly the same as they are in Felucca. Do you want reprieves bad enough to vote for that?

 

[Widow Maker]

As an old school red with many many thousands of kills over the years, I would have to say no to any in game reprieve of kill counts.

I do believe the hours should be taken down to 8 hours for long term and the only thing I would consider for a wipe would be a token that you had to pay EA for. It would be a very good money source for them and help to keep the game going.

I personally wouldn't use one because I am proud of the genocide history on my toon, but I know that many others would pay the price for it.

Proudly killing you and your pals since 1997.

 

[Kimberly]

You cant really be an innocent red. You go red by killing blues, simple as that. You can try to justify it by saying that you were "defending" a raid. But you would still have to kill blue players. If those blue players were killing your already red buddies, and you "defended" by killing them... your killing to defend a murderer. Your literally killing good guys to defend a bad guy. Thats not innocent. There should be more serious consequences to going red, not less. What the OP is saying, is that he murdered a bunch of blue characters in the course of scrolling out his leet char, and now wants all the benefits of a a fully built and scrolled character without having to pay any of the consequences.

Well said and I agree.

You want a way to "go blue". How about this for a quest...

Everybody who gave you a count has to sinlgle click on your character and select the menu option "Forgive". How you talk them into doing that is your call. If they didnt think it was a big deal and are willing to forgive then great. If you have to give them 200mil for all the scrolls you robbed them of by murdering them, then great. This gives you a way to get rid of your counts, and also a way to "make up" for your past sins to the people you screwed over.

That is, by far, the best idea I have heard for turning a red character blue.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

And I must agree that you sound like you're taking this all too seriously. Somehow you don't convince me you know it is "Just A Game". That said, I hope you don't come up with more drama about how people insult you 24/7 on the boards... Oh wait! You already replied telling us you are insulted. Too late. :bowdown:

Why is it that so many here cannot stand to see differing points of view?

Anyway...of course I understand that this is "just a game" ... but that game has rules. And the playstyle someone chooses affects others, because this is a multiplayer game.

If you support a system to do away with murder counts faster, that's fine. I don't. I am not going to elude to you as insane or anything because of it.

I think by this point in the game, if they are going to just wipe murder counts, why not just make the entire thing Tram based and just be done with it.

PvP was the heart and soul of UO at one point, but it seems that those days have passed.

Oh well, it was a good game while it lasted.

 

[mr.blackmage]

This is the person who's signature used to say "keeping the PVP scene in check" for so many years. Now you are in favor of losing all of those counts that for years you were so proud of obtaining? The same guy that used to brag on so many boards on how many counts he had? Now wants them all washed away. The "old, dumb system" that used to make you feel so proud?

Dummy, don't make assumptions about a person you don't know. What about my signature? That was the day I sold my old account, what's that have to do with counts? When have I ever said I was proud of counts? All counts are to me (and to every other pvper) are just a way of keeping score. Also, maybe you missed the part where I said I WOULD'NT DELETE MY COUNTS!
Jesus seriously, you think because I am for the idea that I must want it for myself. I simply don't see the need to force people to quit (because there are people that will quit, instead of remaking and spending that time) and lowering the population of this game even further.

Yes, it is an "old dumb" system. It was for a time when there was a single facet, and there was actually a difference in playstyle between reds and blues. Now the two play styles are identical (as in: both are pvpers) and there are 6 or 7 facets that a blue can play to stay away from reds. You shouldn't be able to lock yourself out of playing 7/8ths of a game for over a year in under an hour of play time, sorry. Hell, one guild can do that to you if they want to use some flagging bugs.

 

[darkblade70]

Why is it that so many here cannot stand to see differing points of view?

Anyway...of course I understand that this is "just a game" ... but that game has rules. And the playstyle someone chooses affects others, because this is a multiplayer game.

If you support a system to do away with murder counts faster, that's fine. I don't. I am not going to elude to you as insane or anything because of it.

I think by this point in the game, if they are going to just wipe murder counts, why not just make the entire thing Tram based and just be done with it.

PvP was the heart and soul of UO at one point, but it seems that those days have passed.

Oh well, it was a good game while it lasted.

Again, you seem to skim over key points that people are making -- maybe you're doing it on purpose to make a point, I don't know.

No one is saying consequences for going red should be gone, nor should the red system be totally removed. What people are arguing for is some sort of way to give reds who never got the 1 time reprieve options another form to do it in (i.e. players returning to a system that has little to no opportunities for reds now [whereas it did before] should be given an option to enter into the world where there is actually stuff to do).

And, again, as most have stated, it needs to be a 1 time (or 1 per account) use/opportunity that's permanently in place -- that way it wont get abused and people don't have to be around for all these 'special events' to get access to it.

 

[mr.blackmage]

You are extremely... yeah, if you think that "reds" get all the money from scrolls. What part of every single post concering tram vs fel or champ spawns or anything to do with fel has you believing that blues that do champs don't have red chars? "Reds" ARE "Blues". That's the point that people for the change are trying to make. There is no difference as long as you are able to simply swap items/skills around as you please. And characters that ARE only red generally will mean that they will have less money, as they play the game only to pvp. Extra scrolls/armour/gold gets shared with guildmates. I should know, I've been involved in many pvp guilds where this was the common theme; very few people were rich.

Just because YOU like having a character that can visit tram doesn't mean everyone does. Maybe some reds just want to be blue because they've been red for 7 years, and due to ******** changes to the game, it's no longer possible to play as a successful solo red. It gets tiring getting killed in under 2 seconds, repeatedly, from people that couldn't pvp their way out of a wet paper bag, until dismount/all kill. That hide in a GZ abusing flagging rules, or simply waiting until 6 other people jump you, and then running and hiding until the 2 min timer is up.

Regardless of a persons motive, IT DOESN'T EFFECT ANYONE!!! To have the option for a character to go blue.

That should really be the only considering in the decision making process.
1) Will it increase subscribers? (probably a slight influx of old accounts)
2) Will it decrease subscribers? (no)
3) Will it have a negative (psychological, as it's a game) effect on anyone? (no, unless someone has a real life mental issue)
4) Will it increase interest in UO (yes, people revisiting old characters)

Now unless my little checklist is wrong, where's the harm? To you, personally, I mean. I don't mean for you to quote 11 year old rules and say thats why, I want a real reason. Moral integrity? They aren't your morals, they were RG's for a game completely different than this one. In a land where guards don't even protect you from monsters invading a town, it seems pretty silly to have murderers (which guards don't protect from either).

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

it needs to be a 1 time (or 1 per account) use/opportunity that's permanently in place -- that way it wont get abused and people don't have to be around for all these 'special events' to get access to it.

There have been at least 2 "one time" amnesties that I can recall.

How many times can something be a "one time" thing before it is considered to be a "2 time" or "3 time" or even "10 time" thing?

Answer: As many times as it happens after the first time.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Why is it that so many here cannot stand to see differing points of view?

Pot meet kettle. You two should have a lot in common. I'll leave you both alone to get better acquainted.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

1) Will it increase subscribers? (probably a slight influx of old accounts)
2) Will it decrease subscribers? (no)
3) Will it have a negative (psychological, as it's a game) effect on anyone? (no, unless someone has a real life mental issue)
4) Will it increase interest in UO (yes, people revisiting old characters)

I pretty much cannot argue with any of that except #3. In order to continue a civilized discourse, it might be better to refrain from referring to people that disagree with you as having "mental issues".

But let me explain my objection to #3.

Many PKs grew very wealthy (probably not so much by today's standards, which involve people buying script-farmed or duped gold) from the labors of other players around them. Not everyone forgets and forgives as easily. When UO was young, and a player was killed by a PK, the PK looted the player. Those players lost whatever it was they had been working toward at that time. This had a real effect in the game. And now, because the rules have changed, some of the reds want a reprieve. They got one already when the rules changed, but now they want another. Not sure I agree with it.

But I have started to understand your points here.

It is not the fault of the reds that they are no longer able to victimize the playerbase to gain in game wealth. They didn't ask for that change. It isn't the fault of the reds that they kept killing innocents, knowing full well that subscribers were leaving the game because of the rampant killing and griefing, which led to the Tram/Fel split. No. It was the fault of the devs for not finding a more realistic way of dealing with it than just shutting it off and leaving the reds in Fel...with no left to victimize. The playstyle of the red players was taken from them, and they had no recourse other than to quit, or adjust their playstyle. I can relate to that.

It is actually a tough choice, because on one hand...they deserved what they got for preying on the innocent so much that they f*cked up UO. But at the same time, the devs should not have taken that approach, and it sucks that those players got the shaft...even if they earned it.


I am starting to sway on this though (like it matters...it isn't my decision anyway)

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Pot meet kettle. You two should have a lot in common. I'll leave you both alone to get better acquainted.

Stalk much?