EA what exactly is the problem?

[Exgirlfriend]

Your man said removing ALL the cheaters would be a tiny fraction of the player base, im all for it...what are you waiting for?

Really, after how many years of people complaining about a couple cheat programs you still do nothing.

I could care less about your pr job with the burning houses, like im ever going to see billions of gold and like it actully did anything for the games players.

So EA what exactly is the problem?

 

[Lustig als'Holle]

Your man said removing ALL the cheaters would be a tiny fraction of the player base, im all for it...what are you waiting for?

Really, after how many years of people complaining about a couple cheat programs you still do nothing.

I could care less about your pr job with the burning houses, like im ever going to see billions of gold and like it actully did anything for the games players.

So EA what exactly is the problem?

The problem is people who have absolutely no patience and continually makes posts such as this. Not that it really affects whether they fix a bug or stop a cheater, but if it were me, every post like this one would move the fix one day into the future. I guess if you really want to see what they are doing, get the cheat programs yourself and start running them. If you get away with it for more than a month, then maybe nothing is currently being done, but if you get caught and/or banned, I guess you'll have your answer!!!

I'll leave the comments I had written about the appropriateness of your user name, at least for now, but I must say from what I've seen of previous posts, it is very fitting (OK, so I didn't let it rest completely, but sometimes I just don't know when to let things go!!!).

 

[Viper09]

I'd say let the dead horse rest in peace and stop beating it, lol.
EA is doing what it is doing. And the cheaters will be the first to know when they unleash their plans to rid cheaters.

 

[Exgirlfriend]

This issue has been around for at least the last 5 years, talk talk talk and more hot air thats all EA ever dose.

Im calling you out EA step up and deal with this issue! The players want it, you say you want it so like i already asked What exactly is the problem?

 

[Gellor]

They finally did some research and found the claim of "tiny fraction of the player base" to be wrong. IT turns out they really meant "large portion" *rolleyes*

After all their previous attempts at "blanket" banning and the subsequent "whoops, we didn't mean to ban you but tough buns attitude" that followed, they are a bit gun shy... especially when several accounts closed as a result of these "opsie" bans *rolleyes*

Until they can 100% prove who is cheating, they can't afford to make another half a55'd attempt at mass bannings.

Sad fact of the matter, all they have is "I can't describe a cheater but I'll know one when I see one" mentality. Unfortunately, you can't program that

 

[Heartseeker]

Better idea would be you stop posting this crap!!!

 

[Smokin]

Someone needs to make one of those smiley faces thats walking around with a shovel in its hand at a horse graveyard.

 

[Budweiser]

They finally did some research and found the claim of "tiny fraction of the player base" to be wrong. IT turns out they really meant "large portion" *rolleyes*

After all their previous attempts at "blanket" banning and the subsequent "whoops, we didn't mean to ban you but tough buns attitude" that followed, they are a bit gun shy... especially when several accounts closed as a result of these "opsie" bans *rolleyes*

Until they can 100% prove who is cheating, they can't afford to make another half a55'd attempt at mass bannings.

Sad fact of the matter, all they have is "I can't describe a cheater but I'll know one when I see one" mentality. Unfortunately, you can't program that

Fel would be empty if they did.... Just a thought.

 

[Lore Master]

I have to agree with the poster EA needs to stop these cheaters and illegal 3rd party programs.

• As for me i much rather play a game with only 10 thousand players that has no cheating or illegal cheat programs then play a game with a million players that has cheats and illegal cheat programs.

• I love UO i wont stop playing just because of cheats but many have quit for that reason alone. i would sure enjoy UO a hell of a lot more then i do now if cheating was stopped or greatly diminished.

• PunkBuster should have been implemented to this game it still can be people can change there minds even EA.

Eliminating cheat programs and cheats would bring more players in the game and would keep more players in the game as well.

 

[AesSedai]

...
Eliminating cheat programs and cheats would bring more players in the game and would keep more players in the game as well.

- AYE ^ 8 ) turn the 8 on its side...)!

Ri col-a, feel free to chime in too!
"Do it!"

 

[Heartseeker]

"Eliminating cheat programs and cheats would bring more players in the game and would keep more players in the game as well."

How??

Since most players PVM how does cheating effect them?

 

[Hemisphere]

Since most players PVM how does cheating effect them?

Are you kidding?

If you PvM, chances are you do it for a reason. The two main ones are gold and loot. Cheating makes both your gold and your loot worthless.

There was a time (pretty much up until AoS, basically) when some of the best ways to make money were standard PvM, fighting dragons, daemons, whatever, and looting their gold and magic equipment. You could find worthwhile, usable, sellable stuff, every single day.

Of course this is no longer possible, but that's mostly a rant for another thread cheating still affects PvM though.

 

[Lore Master]

"Eliminating cheat programs and cheats would bring more players in the game and would keep more players in the game as well."

How??

Since most players PVM how does cheating effect them?

Because most players are sick and tired of cheaters and cheat programs gives the cheaters an unfair advantage and makes some players want to quit or not join UO in the first place.

 

[T_Amon_from_work]

Someone needs to make one of those smiley faces thats walking around with a shovel in its hand at a horse graveyard.

Almost like ...



However, in this case I think she's right ... don't let your mouth write checks you can't cash. Ie., live up to your word or be still about things.

 

[Mistura]

The problem is people who have absolutely no patience and continually makes posts such as this.

Patience? Do me a favour, this has been going on for years with the same canned responses from the devs on here, as you get from GMs when you need assistance with something.

"We hate cheaters as much as you/We are acting on this but can't get into specifics for obvious reasons/we cannot discuss how many accounts are being dealt with/we cannot comment on why the same scripters are running resource farming scripts day after day, despite being repeatedly paged on"

Etc... Although this kind of thread has been done to death and I actually let out a small groan when I saw it, the questions posed by exgirlfriends are ones which constantly nag at the UO community and I guess until we have some solid answers and some tangible action (which amounts to more than a glorified PR stunt) there will continue to be threads like this on Uhall.

Not that it really affects whether they fix a bug or stop a cheater, but if it were me, every post like this one would move the fix one day into the future.

Very constructive.

I'll leave the comments I had written about the appropriateness of your user name, at least for now, but I must say from what I've seen of previous posts, it is very fitting (OK, so I didn't let it rest completely, but sometimes I just don't know when to let things go!!!).

From what i've read here I think you have to look at your own self before coming out with this kind of BS.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Whenever they do a banning of any significant size, folks who've never been seen before come on the boards and complain they were banned unjustly. People here believe them, for no particular reason that I can see, and are critical of EA for banning unjustly.

Whenever they make a major move against cheating in general, such as using Punkbuster, folks here criticize them, say it over-reaches, goes too far, will catch innocent people.

Whenever they make a major move on a particular cheat program, such as one of those things that speeds up your processor or lets you script crafting skills, folks here criticize them, say it over-reaches, goes too far, and these programs are simply making up for obvious flaws in the game so why not just make them legal and let everyone have these programs.

Do you spot the pattern?

-Galen's player

 

[Draconi]

Whenever they do a banning of any significant size, folks who've never been seen before come on the boards and complain they were banned unjustly. People here believe them, for no particular reason that I can see, and are critical of EA for banning unjustly.

Whenever they make a major move against cheating in general, such as using Punkbuster, folks here criticize them, say it over-reaches, goes too far, will catch innocent people.

Whenever they make a major move on a particular cheat program, such as one of those things that speeds up your processor or lets you script crafting skills, folks here criticize them, say it over-reaches, goes too far, and these programs are simply making up for obvious flaws in the game so why not just make them legal and let everyone have these programs.

Do you spot the pattern?

-Galen's player

Ooh! Pick me!

• Sockpuppets
• Astroturfing
• For the Children

Meanwhile, no, I can't discuss things that are happening behind the scenes. Although people from this thread should be assured that we haven't stopped our efforts, are in fact stepping them up, and that cheaters make up a fraction of the playerbase even if people want to convince themselves otherwise.

 

[the 4th man]

Ya know Ex.....asking here is just ranting. Don't get me wrong, I can see where you're coming from on this, but, I wouldn't expect much from here but bashing and sarcastic remarks. You know how Uhallers are, I do, I'm one of em.....I would seriously suggest you call EA corporate to get a straight answer, then let us know what ya found.

Asking here's a waste of time.

 

[Spree]

Ea should make a cheat get it posted on the cheat sites then ban every one who uses it. After a few times people will stop going to those sites.

 

[DevilsOwn]

Ooh! Pick me!

• Sockpuppets
• Astroturfing
• For the Children

Meanwhile, no, I can't discuss things that are happening behind the scenes. Although people from this thread should be assured that we haven't stopped our efforts, are in fact stepping them up, and that cheaters make up a fraction of the playerbase even if people want to convince themselves otherwise.

see, now someone(s) here will jump on this and ask "how much of a fraction?" or someone(s) will ask "that sentence leads me to believe that you know who and when" and I'm sure many someones will say "same ol', same ol'"...... so before all that happens, here it is

 

[Redxpanda]

I'm all for stopping cheaters as long as it isn't done how it was last time. Banning people for just owning duped items (if they knew better or not) is completely unfair. I would rather they take their time and do it right instead of going after who is easier to catch.

 

[Exgirlfriend]

Ooh! Pick me!

• Sockpuppets
• Astroturfing
• For the Children

Meanwhile, no, I can't discuss things that are happening behind the scenes. Although people from this thread should be assured that we haven't stopped our efforts, are in fact stepping them up, and that cheaters make up a fraction of the playerbase even if people want to convince themselves otherwise.

Thanks for the reply, but to tell you the truth (no disrespect) we have heard it countless times before. I believe it's time for action, on every shard. this very day if your gm team removed 5 people per shard it would do wonders but you need to tell everyone who and why to make certian the point is made.

have a nice day
Ex

 

[kaio]

Ooh! Pick me!

• Sockpuppets
• Astroturfing
• For the Children

Meanwhile, no, I can't discuss things that are happening behind the scenes. Although people from this thread should be assured that we haven't stopped our efforts, are in fact stepping them up, and that cheaters make up a fraction of the playerbase even if people want to convince themselves otherwise.

Intresting. Just wondering, how many dupers did it take to supply all our beloved shards, with sammy-armor and valorite/verite hammers ?

How much fun are you having after 4 years collecting bod's, and you
finally got that verite hammer, knowing that it takes a duper 5min to do the same ?

From a scale from 1 to 10, how much fun are you having when you finally dismounts someone that you wanna kill, and they can outrun your'e entire team on foot ?

How many cheaters does it take to ruin, your'e experience/fun-lvl regarding PVP ?

And i could go on, and on, and...

I think we all know the answers to the above questions.
Do bear in mind that i did not mention anything about unbalanced templates or anything i didn't even mention Archers nor tamers.

So my real question here is, why does EA allow this fraction of players, to ruin the game for the rest of us ?

 

[Arcus]

Meanwhile, no, I can't discuss things that are happening behind the scenes. Although people from this thread should be assured that we haven't stopped our efforts, are in fact stepping them up, and that cheaters make up a fraction of the playerbase even if people want to convince themselves otherwise.

...and meanwhile you guys refuse to implement code to get rid of that program that makes uo 'easy' . You guys know how, you wont do it?

Why?

Because greater than 50% of your playerbase uses / used it.

 

[ColterDC]

No offense Draconi, but you're just spewing the same BS we've been hearing for years.

If EA really wanted to, they could remove 99% of the cheaters within a month.

Less talk, more action.

 

[Redxpanda]

No offense Draconi, but you're just spewing the same BS we've been hearing for years.

If EA really wanted to, they could remove 99% of the cheaters within a month.

Less talk, more action.

...and remove 50% of the subscriptions in the process. I want cheaters gone but not along with the game. I think the first step is to get more people playing. Every new subscription means one more cheater we can get rid of. People aren't going to start playing just because they heard a bunch of cheaters got banned.

 

[AesSedai]

...

• Sockpuppets

...

- You just had to do it!
At first I was thinking about how UO is too close to the political center of the country these days
Then I look at your Sockpuppets link just for fun & they had to mention 'googly eyes'. So now...
Christopher Walken is going to be stuck in your head too

 

[MaryForUo]

Meanwhile, no, I can't discuss things that are happening behind the scenes. Although people from this thread should be assured that we haven't stopped our efforts, are in fact stepping them up, and that cheaters make up a fraction of the playerbase even if people want to convince themselves otherwise.

better i dont say what i have in mind now...
the only things i have seen for years are only "words" and what? 1,2,3,4,5 burned house? 1,2,3,4,5 account banned?

this make me really happy because i'm leaveing soon.
good luck uo!

lol

 

[Duskofdead]

The problem is people who have absolutely no patience and continually makes posts such as this.

Seriously you're aware cheating and duping is an 11 year old issue yet to be comprehensively addressed yes? There really is no grounds to make a "UO subscribers simply have no patience" argument, at all. In fact UO is probably the weakest game grounds in which to ever make that argument given how long it's been running.

 

[Tjalle]

No offense Draconi, but you're just spewing the same BS we've been hearing for years.

If EA really wanted to, they could remove 99% of the cheaters within a month.

Less talk, more action.

...and remove 50% of the subscriptions in the process.

If 50% of the subscribers are cheating then YES! Get rid of those 50%. Who wants to play with a cheater anyway?

I think the first step is to get more people playing.

Why would we wanna introduce new players to a game that´s plagued with cheating?

Fix cheating first and then try to get new players.

 

[Duskofdead]

If 50% of the subscribers are cheating then YES! Get rid of those 50%. Who wants to play with a cheater anyway?



Why would we wanna introduce new players to a game that´s plagued with cheating?

Fix cheating first and then try to get new players.

EA wants their money, I assume.

 

[rwek]

Hammers and barbed kits should be much easier to obtain. Much much easier.

I've said this before, don't bother making a crafter to collect the bods, just pay the dupers/multiaccount scripters prices. You'll be light years ahead in the long run.





One way to remove cheating, is to make cheating unnecessary

 

[Draconi]

EA wants their money, I assume.

Nope, and said it multiple times

The numbers quoted above are made up shock tactic numbers, if 50% of the players were cheating and were caught, we'd have 50% less players. It's a tiny, but highly visible, fraction instead.

We look forward to seeing a drop in certain repetitive activities by just reducing the abilities of trial accounts. It's not a magic bullet, but it'll help.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

EA wants their money, I assume.

Nope, and said it multiple times

The numbers quoted above are made up shock tactic numbers, if 50% of the players were cheating and were caught, we'd have 50% less players. It's a tiny, but highly visible, fraction instead.

When you say tiny fraction...are you saying less than 5% of the player base?...la

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Nope, and said it multiple times

The numbers quoted above are made up shock tactic numbers, if 50% of the players were cheating and were caught, we'd have 50% less players. It's a tiny, but highly visible, fraction instead.

We look forward to seeing a drop in certain repetitive activities by just reducing the abilities of trial accounts. It's not a magic bullet, but it'll help.

It must have occurred to you now that they won't believe you no matter what you say.

So how about this as a tactic: Agree with them.

Nah, then people will just excerpt what you say without context.

-Galen's player

 

[DevilsOwn]

When you say tiny fraction...are you saying less than 5% of the player base?...la

somewhere up there you were warned, Draconi and as soon as you admit to X number/percent of cheaters there will be more than a few someones telling you how many they know of "on just my shard!"

Galen's right, "no matter what you say.."

 

[Duskofdead]

It must have occurred to you now that they won't believe you no matter what you say.

So how about this as a tactic: Agree with them.

Nah, then people will just excerpt what you say without context.

-Galen's player

Right because it's sooooo unreasonable for people to be skeptical about receiving the same promise of "we're doing something" about a persistent problem which has existed on and off (but mostly on) for the last 11 years.

If it were clear they were doing something, people wouldn't have to run to the forums and say, "EA, what are you doing?" But people see the same speedhackers in Yew everynight, and the same vendorhouses mysteriously have endless supplies of some of the best items in the game.

Do you really enjoy being such a troll?

 

[Draconi]

Galen's right, "no matter what you say.."

Yep.

The important thing is providing correct information to the players (in this kind of discussion, the amount we can communicate is small).

For instance, the current step the design team is taking is rewriting our game systems to limit accessibility to trial accounts for P58.

Speedhacking is another step being taken on by the engineers, but something I can't talk about or release a timeframe for.

 

[Nok]

Whenever they do a banning of any significant size, folks who've never been seen before come on the boards and complain they were banned unjustly. People here believe them, for no particular reason that I can see, and are critical of EA for banning unjustly.

Whenever they make a major move against cheating in general, such as using Punkbuster, folks here criticize them, say it over-reaches, goes too far, will catch innocent people.

Whenever they make a major move on a particular cheat program, such as one of those things that speeds up your processor or lets you script crafting skills, folks here criticize them, say it over-reaches, goes too far, and these programs are simply making up for obvious flaws in the game so why not just make them legal and let everyone have these programs.

Do you spot the pattern?

QFT! Galen, excellent observation. The UO team is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Meanwhile, no, I can't discuss things that are happening behind the scenes. Although people from this thread should be assured that we haven't stopped our efforts, are in fact stepping them up, and that cheaters make up a fraction of the playerbase even if people want to convince themselves otherwise.

Good to hear reassurance Draconi.

see, now someone(s) here will jump on this and ask "how much of a fraction?" or someone(s) will ask "that sentence leads me to believe that you know who and when" and I'm sure many someones will say "same ol', same ol'"...... so before all that happens, here it is

LOL True. People will ask things they assume they have right to or need to know.

I'm all for stopping cheaters as long as it isn't done how it was last time. Banning people for just owning duped items (if they knew better or not) is completely unfair. I would rather they take their time and do it right instead of going after who is easier to catch.

See Galen's post above.

Thanks for the reply, but to tell you the truth (no disrespect) we have heard it countless times before. I believe it's time for action, on every shard. this very day if your gm team removed 5 people per shard it would do wonders but you need to tell everyone who and why to make certian the point is made.

Smooth Ex... not. Really? You've heard Draconi addressing and taking player input on trial account issues countless times? You know what goes on behind the scenes? What the abilities & limitations of the reporting mechanisms are on UO's backend? You've seen what's been going on in the offices? Wow... I'm in awe. Can you hook me up with your inside contacts? Sincerely. rolleyes:

No offense Draconi, but you're just spewing the same BS we've been hearing for years.

If EA really wanted to, they could remove 99% of the cheaters within a month.

Less talk, more action.

See reply to Ex.

 

[dukarlo]

Nope, and said it multiple times

The numbers quoted above are made up shock tactic numbers, if 50% of the players were cheating and were caught, we'd have 50% less players. It's a tiny, but highly visible, fraction instead.

We look forward to seeing a drop in certain repetitive activities by just reducing the abilities of trial accounts. It's not a magic bullet, but it'll help.

Draconi, Ive been a big critic of the way cheating has been dealt with but my criticism has legitimate merit. Its nothing personal but the fact is from a pvpers point of view, absolutely nothing has been done in reguards to speedhacking. It seems that if Trammelites complain about dupes etc you guys at least will on occasion do some token bans which is a good thing even though I dont think its enough in reguards to that type of cheating. Look at it from a player such as myself that has no desire to make a fortune as a merchant or do Trammelite things in game. We see the same speedhackers/client modders etc day after day. Paging is pointless and action from EA is never forthcoming even tho I know you guys are well aware of what is going on. How can you expect us not to me ticked off after years of inaction? Is the pvp crowd just taken for granted? If so its a big mistake. Pvp in UO is the end game. If the end game keeps getting ignored there is no reason for those players to keep playing UO. I think there are many more pvpers than these forums give credit for. Just the other night there was a fight on GL with over 50 players between just 2 guilds. On top of that there were multiple stragglers at the fight and s,maller guilds on top of other guilds trying to sneak in spawns while the big fight was going on. Thats possible up to 100 players pvping not including whatever was going on at the gate. Take into consideration that many of those players have multiple accounts and thats alot of paid customers. Where in Trammel do you ever see that many players? My point is thats alot of paying customers that are being ignored on just 1 shard. If you know people are cheating just start banning em. Sure it may take man hours etc but its something you guys have ignored for a long time and its about time you take your loyal but disillusioned playerbase seriously. Limiting trial accounts is fine but it still does not adress a single pvp cheat. People cheating in pvp are doing so on main accounts.

 

[Lynk]

Start issuing 72 hour bans for first offense and perma thereafter.. will cut the amount of speeders in 1/2 once word of mouth gets around.

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

Are you sure about that?

The most effective spawn cams generally use trial accounts. There are plenty of PvP'ers who complain about it.

Speed hacking is not the start and end of all things PvP.

 

[UltimatePower]

Yep.



Speedhacking is another step being taken on by the engineers, but something I can't talk about or release a timeframe for.

This sounds like they are trying to fix speedhacking, not ban all the players that use it.

You could spend a year "fixing it " and 3 days later there is going to be a working speedhack. Cheat En#$% is open source, look through it and figure out how to detect it. You say you know the percentage of people using it? Then why have these people not been banned???

Figure out how to detect people using it, and ban them!!! Don't try to fix it , just leave the detection utility in place and ban anyone who trys to use it in the future. These cheaters deserve whats coming to them.

Enough is enough.

No more screwing around, i see more and more people leave the game every day, because nothing is being done about this.

 

[HD2300]

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/222521/page/1

0. WoW/MMO Glider Update 02/05/2009 01:03:33 PM EST
Everyone,
We’d like to take a moment to provide a major update on the WoW/MMO Glider case...
For those who aren’t familiar with the background of this case or the long process that led to this decision, MDY is the creator of Glider, a “bot” designed to play World of Warcraft automatically with little to no player input...

We also reached out to the makers or operators of these bots in an effort to stop their distribution, and in most cases we were able to come to an agreement. While many bots were discontinued as a result, some bot makers continued their operations, and we needed to take a different route to remove them from the game -- with Glider being the biggest example.
...
Following these filings and associated court proceedings, a summary judgment was made in July 2008 finding in favor of Blizzard on two counts -- copyright infringement and unlawful interference with our business -- with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act count to be decided in a formal trial. In response to the summary judgment, MDY agreed to a stipulated judgment in the amount of 6 million dollars pending further appeal.
...

Love blizzard, they know how to deal with bot users and creators!!!!

Maybe EA's lawyers can add another +$6 million onto UO's books, and whoever writes the memo might get a nice big bonus.

 

[dukarlo]

Are you sure about that?

The most effective spawn cams generally use trial accounts. There are plenty of PvP'ers who complain about it.

Speed hacking is not the start and end of all things PvP.

I play on GL. Thier are 2 big guilds a couple fairly big guilds and a bunch of smaller pvp guilds. Being in a vent with alot of people in it I have never really heard people complaining about about spawn cams. I know my guild has enough people where scouting only takes a few minutes when a few guys take a few spawns. In fact while out scouting I often run into enemy guilds scouts. Im not saying its not a problem on some shards because I know scripts exist for ghost camming. I am saying tho that every shards biggest problem is the speedhacking and client mods and in my opinion the biggest problems shared by all shards should be adressed first. On my shard whether or not ghost cams exist you expect to get raided.

 

[DENNAR]

Yep.

The important thing is providing correct information to the players (in this kind of discussion, the amount we can communicate is small).

For instance, the current step the design team is taking is rewriting our game systems to limit accessibility to trial accounts for P58.

Speedhacking is another step being taken on by the engineers, but something I can't talk about or release a timeframe for.

Draconi:

Here is an actual fact for you. At one time I had at least 12 accounts running at one time. I now have ZERO. I left UO mainly due to the cheating and the lack of action against them. I know others who have done the same. Over the years posts on stratics that were about cheating have had tens of thousand of responses and probably hundreds of thousands of views. Most of us left without answers and more frustrated than when we posted.

As one poster noted--imagine running bods for years in the hopes of getting a good reward only to find the duppers have saturated the market making the running of bods basically worthless. The team initiated the Bod program and made the crafter Bod dependent. Then you turned your backs on them and let the duppers win.

There are other areas that can say the same as the Bod runners. I decided I would not financially support a company that took the actions in the manner EA does.

I wonder how many others left and how many accounts you lost only to allow cheaters to prosper in UO.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

and that cheaters make up a fraction of the playerbase

Not to be a smarty pants here...but isn't EVERYONE a fraction of the player base?

 

[Redxpanda]

Not to be a smarty pants here...but isn't EVERYONE a fraction of the player base?

I think the more important question is: Is it a fraction that you are comfortable being without. There are guilds that require you to cheat to join them, can UO afford to lose that many players these days?

 

[HD2300]

As one poster noted--imagine running bods for years in the hopes of getting a good reward only to find the duppers have saturated the market making the running of bods basically worthless. The team initiated the Bod program and made the crafter Bod dependent. Then you turned your backs on them and let the duppers win.

It is not dupers. They are scriptors. A BOD scriptor can net $2000/month per account, $1000 from tailor bods and $1000 from blacksmith bods. If you have 10 accounts, even after you pay $120 for all 10 accounts it still nets $20000/month. This is consistent with the bucket loads of runics everywhere.

I also believe they are scriptors not dupers because it should be very simple to do a search for valorite runic LBODs.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Such guilds can, and have, be banned. The entire guild, so be careful what you join.

Banned players seem to be like bad pennies, they keep turning back up. So, in my uneducated opinion, making it no longer possible to do whatever they were banned for would seem the better option.