Champion Spawn Ettiqute

[Prince Caspian]

Note -- per the rules of the board, I am not going to make mention of the real handles of those involved.

So on Saturday I'm roaming around Ilsh, and come upon the Humility Spawn. It's already up to the Champ, Semidar. So I start plinking away, and get a pretty icy welcome.

First of all, the first fellow, let's call him ******, starts accusing me of scripting because -- get this -- he says I have shown up at this spawn three times in the past two days. Then he proceeds to call me every name in the book and accusing me of about every form of cheating there is (illegal template, speedhacking). So I tell him to knock it off, and when he doesn't, I just page for harrassment and put him on ignore.

Then another person in the group (let's call him Angry) starts to chew me (and another forumite on this board, who I wont name here either, but someone who I know is a stand-up player who happened to join the battle late) out. Not nearly as venomously, but he still was upset. Talking it out with him, I found his beef was that we crashed the spawn they were working, and therefore were entitled to all of the spoils.

To be fair, I can see his point. I suppose working up a spawn in a group of 3-4 is a great deal of work, and yes, someone crashing in at the last minute to fight the champion probably isn't fair if Johnny-come-latelys happen to get the item drop.

But to counter, people have crashed my spawns all the time. Believe it or not, I'm usually happy to see them because I'm probably not going to be able to finish off the Champ by my lonesome. I really don't give it a second thought. And there's been PLENTY of times I did most of the work on a spawn and then people popped in.

And to go further, I hate to pull the old chestnut out, but I think it's appropriate here -- don't like it, go to Fel. If you work in a non-PvP facet, you have absolutely no right to claim something as yours. Especially when there are only like 3 of these spawns to work.

And of course, in my opinion, the bottom line of all of this crap was really The Dog In The Manger. Mine mine mine mine, gimme gimme gimme, you don't get any. Don't horn in on my profiteering.

Anyhow, I'd like to hear other folks opinion on this. Were we in the wrong here? If a Champ is up, should you stand down entirely until the other group finishes up, or at the least ask permission?

PS: If you were a party to this event and are commenting on it, please don't use anyone else's name (other than mine) in this thread.

 

[T_Amon_from_work]

<sees a grenade lobbed by PC and awaits the shrapnel>

I can see both sides of you and Angry. I would rename "******" to "Highly Mistaken" if you truly had not been crashing previously. Just to be nice, ya see.

I'm like you, tho ... I welcome any assistance on any battle - no matter Champ or not. I'm curious about responses as well.

 

[Farsight]

If I go to an Ilsh spawn and see it ANYWHERE short of the champ itself, then I consider it fair game. That seems to be the general consensus on Catskills as well, since there's surprisingly little complaining on mine or other's parts that I've seen.

I get frustrated when people jump my spawn so late in the game, but the people who do the jumping there on a regular basis (you know who you are!) are usually very helpful with cross healing and ressurecting that if things do go badly for me, I'm glad to see them.

I will like you if you do ask for permission (and I'll always say yes), but if you don't, I won't get too upset. After all, it's Trammel. It's a free for all.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

This is a very common observation. You're absolutely right about what you're writing. While it surely is impolite to "take away someone's well-earned kill", there's no reason to flame or complain about that in Trammel.

The main problem is (and this I say from a perspective of a player who experienced the pre-Trammel times for 2 years) that nowadays items are everything in UO. People know about the importance of good items. As a matter of fact, powerful items are vital for almost every interesting game content. This is a sad fact, and it leads to envy, greed, item-addiction, and last but not least to the destruction of the community spirit. I explained this more than once, and I hope the developers are aware of this issue.

I've seen such stupid behavior at all kinds of occasions:

• People script-looting the boxes from the Myxkion-battles in the anti virtue dungeons.
• Conflicts about gossamer loot at the Sicarii quest.
• Loot from Generals during the invasion.
• Disputes about people damaging Skeletal Liches with a single Word of Death.
• People cross-shard-trading 25k spring cleaning tickets from the Casca quest.
• and so on and so forth...

It is just ridiculous how people are behaving and destroying each other's fun in this great game over a bunch of stupid items. But, to blame are not only the players, but those people who introduced insanely powerful and rare items in the first place.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

The beauty of Siege. If people want a spawn. They fight for it. The winner...the spoils...la

 

[Old Man of UO]

When I start a spawn in Ilshenar, I welcome all the help that wanders in, even if I CAN handle it by myself, and no matter how far along the spawn is. After all, it's what, 15 minutes before the next one starts... not so long that we won't all get another chance. And the faster the small stuff gets cleared, the faster the main champ will re-spawn.

And if I wander in a spawn, I probably will wait to hit if the champ is almost dead, but hit the champ if it is mostly full health.

That said, if the group wanders off after the champ was killed and came back when the next champ spawned, then ya... I would be ticked and suggest they help get the next one moving along..

If I wander into a group that says, "GO AWAY! IT IS OUR SPAWN!" I will stick around. I don't have a problem with people wanting to solo a spawn, but do have a problem if they aren't willing to share ANY spawn in Trammel. In Felucca, it's free-for-all and do what you want.

 

[^Wolfie^]

I myself have done tons of champ spawns now, on all faucets. I've arrived at them at the start, at the middle, and yes even got lucky and got there for just the Boss. Do I feel like I shouldn't attack it? No. Look at it this way, sooner it's down, sooner another spawn starts. And to be honest, I believe the more spawn you kill.. better chance at one of the special items? Not sure how that works, but I thought I read somewhere you will not get a special item by hitting just the boss itself. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[CatLord]

There are many ways to skin a... cat.

 

[Old Man of UO]

I myself have done tons of champ spawns now, on all faucets. ...

heh... it must be a leaky champ spawn...

 

[Maplestone]

I see the humility spawn as a public meeting place - a great place for people who don't normally do spawns (such as myself) to run into other people. I *want* to see other people there.

If a group wants a private battle, isn't that what peerless are for? If they want to attempt to control territory, isn't that what Fel spawns are for?

Humilty spawn is just a part of my rotation of activities now. Every couple of days, I'll go there and peck away at whatever is around until my backpack is full. Even if the champion is already defeated, I'll go around cleaning up the remaining spawn. There's some resource in every spawn whether its hides or seeds or just gold and paragon chests that's worth collecting to me.

No replicas yet, but lots of fun.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

No replicas yet...

Karma?...la

 

[Prince Caspian]

I see the humility spawn as a public meeting place - a great place for people who don't normally do spawns (such as myself) to run into other people. I *want* to see other people there.

You see, this is the crux of my irritation over all of this.

Champ Spawns were DESIGNED to be a free-for-all. Like Maplestone said, you aren't doing a Peerless (if you are most folks) alone. A Champ Spawn by its very design is supposed to have anyone happening by helping out.

What frosts me about this, is that without those precious replica items or Scrolls of Transcendence, they wouldn't have given a flip. Its all about the items, that only THEY are allowed to get. Friggin babies.

 

[AirmidCecht]

If I arrive while the champ is out I generally sit back and heal/rez that round. Depending on if I die myself, I'll collect the gold I lost in insurance. We've been pretty lucky on LS but then there are actually 7 champs oustide of Felucca. The one under graveyard in Bedlam, two in Spirituality, one in Minotaur dungeon, Tokuno, Valor and Humility. Most except Bedlam and Minotaur are pretty active.

 

[Uriah Heep]

Well let ****** and angry have their say, and while they're talking, just keep on killing.
It ain't an instanced spawn, all's fair.

And if you are who I think you are, you make most of the spawns anyway, and are always healing and rezzing (me alot ).
Don't let the kiddies get ya down!

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

There are times when "spawn jumping" clearly constitutes lack of etiquette at best or intent to grief at worst.

However, I think any rational person would be very hard-pressed to argue that happening upon a champ spawn, noticing the champ up, and attacking the champ is one of those times.

In Trammel, spawns are public, and when you're talking about something high-end like, say, a champ spawn, or the Doom Gauntlet, you have to assume that those spawns "belong" to anyone who can get there.

In Felucca, you can control who is at spawns.....The catch of course is that you are subject to others who also want that control.

The game already provides for some "instances," meaning times when a private area basically opens up for you and your party and no one else can get in. I of course speak of Peerlesses.

Your "friends," Caspian, are free to form a Peerless guild, and spend all day farming one Peerless after another. Sooner or later they are likely to find enough Cinctures and rare set pieces to be very very rich, and buy all the Replicas they want and have some left over. It will take some effort, but then again so will spawning all day long. Or Dooming all day long.

Champ spawns are not, however, among these "instances."

Your being accused of scripting on that basis I find absolutely hilarious. It goes a fair amount toward supporting one of my pet arguments, which is basically that there's a lot less scripting or speed-hacking in the game than there are accusations thereof. It becomes easy to accuse anyone of whom you disapprove of doing something illegal. I've been called a "speed hacker" a fair amount, for example.

As to the broader point about courtesy at spawns?

Someone else on these boards said he used a guideline of half health...If the champ was half health or under, he wouldn't jump it. I find his guideline to be useful, and I have basically adopted it.

I also add.....Be courteous and helpful always, but especially when you've come into a spawn late. Cross-heal, if you're a Paladin at the Serado spawn shoot out Cleanse by Fire spells to cure Serado's poison, resurrect people, etc.

-Galen's player

 

[Gheed]

If you jumped in when the boss is out without working any of the spawn you arent getting the drop anyway right? I have soloed lots of spawns to the boss and had folks jump in when it poped. Now they could be lying, but no one has ever claimed they got a drop when this happened. The only one to get a drop in this scenario was me. 2 out of 15 or so soloed spawns w/champ help.

And the more work you put in the better your chances. I have gotten quite a few drops and I worked most of the spawn in nearly every one.

 

[Kellgory]

Fair game on all non-fel spawns. You would think the odds of getting anything by showing up just in time to hit the champ would be pretty low. It is my understanding that in order to get a chance for the drop, you had to do sufficent amount of the spawn. That is unless everyone who did the spawn left the facet.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

If you jumped in when the boss is out without working any of the spawn you arent getting the drop anyway right? I have soloed lots of spawns to the boss and had folks jump in when it poped. Now they could be lying, but no one has ever claimed they got a drop when this happened. The only one to get a drop in this scenario was me. 2 out of 15 or so soloed spawns w/champ help.

And the more work you put in the better your chances. I have gotten quite a few drops and I worked most of the spawn in nearly every one.

You can indeed get a drop just from the champ.

However, you can also get a drop just from doing the lesser spawn. (The drop is awarded upon the champ's death.)

You have the best chance if you've worked both the spawn and the champ.

-Galen's player

 

[Maplestone]

No replicas yet...

Karma?...la

I think if my karma was a factor, it would strike at me in way I cared about more

(it's never as much fun when you actually get the carrot)

 

[Shelleybean]

Reading this thread has somewhat diminished my enthusiasm about the champ spawns. I never realized that one should ask permission to join a champ spawn or worse yet, leave the area because someone else is working the spawn. I've considered it to be like running the Doom gauntlet - the more the merrier. Oh well.

 

[Shelleybean]

No replicas yet...

Karma?...la

How ironic that you of all people post such a thing. Clearly the pot is calling the kettle black.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

No replicas yet...

Karma?...la

How ironic that you of all people post such a thing. Clearly the pot is calling the kettle black.

I merely asked a question...la

 

[Gheed]

You can indeed get a drop just from the champ.


-Galen's player

When killing the champion, players who have worked a certain percentage of the spawn will have a chance of receiving one of three types of items:

1. A boss specific replica;
2. A boss specific decorative item;
3. A shared replica.


thread:
http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?p=976310#post976310

Am I reading this incorrectly? I have received rewards from just working the spawn and not touching the champ. I have received rewards from fighting both. I have yet to receive a reward from fighting the champ only.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

When I come to a Champ spawn in Ilsh, I always ask. I guess it is the old-school player in me.

For years, if I pop into the Ice Fiend room in Ice, and someone is there, I leave them to it. I hate it when you are somewhere like that just trying to kill enough to get your fame back up after a couple unplanned departures from the world of the living and someone comes in and just starts killing away with no regard to you.

But Champ spawns are different. I don't know too many people that can handle a Champ boss solo.

But I always ask, and most of the time, the players there are friendly and welcome the assistance.

Town invasions are another story. I just jump in because it is generally chaotic and there is no defined target for anyone.

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

Note -- per the rules of the board, I am not going to make mention of the real handles of those involved.

So on Saturday I'm roaming around Ilsh, and come upon the Humility Spawn. It's already up to the Champ, Semidar. So I start plinking away, and get a pretty icy welcome.

First of all, the first fellow, let's call him ******, starts accusing me of scripting because -- get this -- he says I have shown up at this spawn three times in the past two days. Then he proceeds to call me every name in the book and accusing me of about every form of cheating there is (illegal template, speedhacking). So I tell him to knock it off, and when he doesn't, I just page for harrassment and put him on ignore.

Then another person in the group (let's call him Angry) starts to chew me (and another forumite on this board, who I wont name here either, but someone who I know is a stand-up player who happened to join the battle late) out. Not nearly as venomously, but he still was upset. Talking it out with him, I found his beef was that we crashed the spawn they were working, and therefore were entitled to all of the spoils.

To be fair, I can see his point. I suppose working up a spawn in a group of 3-4 is a great deal of work, and yes, someone crashing in at the last minute to fight the champion probably isn't fair if Johnny-come-latelys happen to get the item drop.

But to counter, people have crashed my spawns all the time. Believe it or not, I'm usually happy to see them because I'm probably not going to be able to finish off the Champ by my lonesome. I really don't give it a second thought. And there's been PLENTY of times I did most of the work on a spawn and then people popped in.

And to go further, I hate to pull the old chestnut out, but I think it's appropriate here -- don't like it, go to Fel. If you work in a non-PvP facet, you have absolutely no right to claim something as yours. Especially when there are only like 3 of these spawns to work.

And of course, in my opinion, the bottom line of all of this crap was really The Dog In The Manger. Mine mine mine mine, gimme gimme gimme, you don't get any. Don't horn in on my profiteering.

Anyhow, I'd like to hear other folks opinion on this. Were we in the wrong here? If a Champ is up, should you stand down entirely until the other group finishes up, or at the least ask permission?

PS: If you were a party to this event and are commenting on it, please don't use anyone else's name (other than mine) in this thread.

I've had my spawn "jumped" both in Ish and fel, meh I don't care. Well except for the arseholes from a particular guild that *THINK* they own the fel spawns. They wait till I have soloed dispise all the way to Barracoon THEN they show up with about 6-8 of them. pk me and take over. I HATE THAT, but such is the price of Fel. As for Ish/ML spawn the more the merrier IMHO. I never get items from spawns so I'm OBVIOUSLY not in it for items I'm just in it for fun.

 

[soze]

I found this post funny because i was waiting for someone to posts an incident like this.

I have done a lot of spawns and seen poeple come in late. ANd i have as well. In fact i came one champ in TRAM to see if the spawn was up, only to find the champ up. so I jumped in.

Oh man, the verbal lashing from a couple of morons that were in the same guild was hilarious. So i traded the barbs. It got so rediculous that they threaten to take care of me in Fel

How funny....threatening to beat up my toon in Fel....how stupid are these people?

THey both had dragons on and told each other to pull off the dragons so i would be killed. Im not kidding...thats how stupid this got.

The other people there who were not in this guild just kept hacking away, ignoring this. THe champ went down and that was the end of it.

Thats just the type of people you run into....most poeple in this game are fine...there are always going to be some idiots who really need to GET SOME PERSPECTIVE...its just an online game for God's sake

 

[Prince Caspian]

Thats just the type of people you run into....most poeple in this game are fine...there are always going to be some idiots who really need to GET SOME PERSPECTIVE...its just an online game for God's sake

The thing about it is -- most peeps aren't like this in most scenarioes of UO.

But GOD HELP YOU, should there be some kind of limited-time-item-drop of ANY kind in Ultima Online, suddenly people's ******* factor kicks into high gear. Then its all ME ME ME. I want the item, and you don't deserve it, and how dare you attack MY monsters.

Like someone posted, it's precisely like the Sicarii gossamers.

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

The thing about it is -- most peeps aren't like this in most scenarioes of UO.

But GOD HELP YOU, should there be some kind of limited-time-item-drop of ANY kind in Ultima Online, suddenly people's ******* factor kicks into high gear. Then its all ME ME ME. I want the item, and you don't deserve it, and how dare you attack MY monsters.

Like someone posted, it's precisely like the Sicarii gossamers.

OMG! QFT!!!! It makes me thing of a WAV file of a song that floated around long time ago the "******* Song" LMAO Anyone remember it? Kinda fits these situations.

 

[Lord Patapon]

@OP: you were right to act the way you did, and they weren't.
Playing at Fel champs the whole year, I don't really get the concept of "hey, it's mine, mate !".

Champs, as said above, were designed to be shared/fought for; but as it's in Tram, some people think that maybe they can act the same funny ways than in dungeons ("oï, that was my spot !" this one always got laughter from me ... really can't understand some people who never shares...)

They should be glad they weren't in Fell, things would have been a lot more difficult for them.
(getting raided at the last minute ... gotta love it )

 

[Prince Caspian]

OMG! QFT!!!! It makes me thing of a WAV file of a song that floated around long time ago the "******* Song" LMAO Anyone remember it? Kinda fits these situations.

LOL, that's Denis Leary's signature song.

"I use public toilets
and I don't lift the seat!
I walk around in the summertime
sayin' 'How About This Heat??'
I'm an..."

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

If you work in a non-PvP facet, you have absolutely no right to claim something as yours.

They have the right to claim whatever they want, you have the right to ignore them and laugh in their face.

*I agree completely with what I quoted.*

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

LOL, that's Denis Leary's signature song.

"I use public toilets
and I don't lift the seat!
I walk around in the summertime
sayin' 'How About This Heat??'
I'm an..."

The one I'm thinking about sounded like a country song and went like this:

"Were you borned an *******, or didya work it yer whole life?
Either way it turned out fine cause yer an ******* to-night!"

 

[Wakiza]

They claim Fellucians dont know how to act. Pfft!!

Have fun.

 

[Maplestone]

When I come to a Champ spawn in Ilsh, I always ask. I guess it is the old-school player in me.

That's interesting ... I wouldn't know how to react if someone asked my permission (obviously I'd have no objection) ... it would feel a bit like sitting in a bar and having a stranger ask me if was ok for them to come in as well.

Etiquette in a community filled with so many subcultures as UO is an interesting topic.

 

[Prince Caspian]

That's interesting ... I wouldn't know how to react if someone asked my permission (obviously I'd have no objection) ... it would feel a bit like sitting in a bar and having a stranger ask me if was ok for them to come in as well.

Etiquette in a community filled with so many subcultures as UO is an interesting topic.

To be honest I would have just told Angry to deal with it and wrote him off as a crybaby. But to be perfectly honest, there still is a faint ember inside me of the etiquette from the old Ultima Online.

In the old Ultima Online, way before the split and CERTAINLY before instanced corpses, it WAS a big breach of ettiquette to attack a monster that another player was fighting and had well in hand. Even if he was on the ropes, it was frowned upon to jump into a battle without permission.

But that time is so far past. I think that's what Morgan is kind of getting at, a holdover from the etiquette of older UO.

 

[Old Man of UO]

... Oh man, the verbal lashing from a couple of morons that were in the same guild was hilarious. So i traded the barbs. It got so rediculous that they threaten to take care of me in Fel

How funny....threatening to beat up my toon in Fel....how stupid are these people?...

Sometimes when something like this happens to me, I just turn it around and be "super nice" to the offender.

Try saying something like, "Aww, you like me, don't you! I want to be your special friend!" and then give them a *BIG HUG* or two, and put yourself onto auto-follow and follow them around! Usually when I do that, they start calling me several unkind and un-manly things, and I just get friendlier. I'll even yell "I'll save YOU!" and help kill whatever is attacking them, especially if they are taking turns at a spawn (e.g., swoops). After about 5 minutes of this, they either leave, page a GM on me for harassment (it's not), or apologize. I've even had them leave, cast incognito on themselves and return to the spawn to avoid me... not knowing the name on their health bar changes too! Their friends usually razz them to no end at the same time. In the end, most of them start laughing and change their attitude, and it all ends up good. Usually...

 

[Uvtha]

Champ Spawns were DESIGNED to be a free-for-all. Like Maplestone said, you aren't doing a Peerless (if you are most folks) alone. A Champ Spawn by its very design is supposed to have anyone happening by helping out.

I think you know full well that anything is "up for grabs" but busting in on anyone doing anything (especially if its a spawn they worked to the boss) then there is a good chance that if you start attacking (and thus having a chance to defeat the whole reason they started doing the spawn in the first place) especially with out asking, of course they are going to get mad.

I mean seriously, lets not kid our selves. People don't do the champ spawns to "fight evil" they do it to get the rewards offered. When you don't do the work and try to take the reward what do you really expect out of people.

Me personally I agree with rico. Nice to not have to deal with these cry baby "im paging on you for harrassment!!!" situations on siege.

 

[Prince Caspian]

I think you know full well that anything is "up for grabs" but busting in on anyone doing anything (especially if its a spawn they worked to the boss) then there is a good chance that if you start attacking (and thus having a chance to defeat the whole reason they started doing the spawn in the first place) especially with out asking, of course they are going to get mad.

I mean seriously, lets not kid our selves. People don't do the champ spawns to "fight evil" they do it to get the rewards offered. When you don't do the work and try to take the reward what do you really expect out of people.

Well it's interesting to see a comment from the other point of view on this. To this, I would say, yes, I can see how that would be the perception, but I think two things are missing from this assumption:

#1 - That people do it to me all the time and this is the first complaint I've seen about it... people crash spawns I'm doing all the time but I figure its just part of it. In fact, I'm happy to see them because I can't take down the champ alone.

and

#2 - I would say yeah its not fair to -constantly- swoop in at the end, but the fact of the matter is, I was coming to join the battle no matter what state it was in. By your logic, me working the outer rim of the spawn is also robbing them of what is theirs, correct?

But what do you say about the people who work the Fel Spawns only to get wiped out by a network of reds when the Champ Spawn comes up? Aren't they just as victimized?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

In the old Ultima Online, way before the split and CERTAINLY before instanced corpses, it WAS a big breach of ettiquette to attack a monster that another player was fighting and had well in hand. Even if he was on the ropes, it was frowned upon to jump into a battle without permission.

But that time is so far past. I think that's what Morgana is kind of getting at, a holdover from the etiquette of older UO.

Exactly.

Spawn jumping or loot grabbing was a big ol' no-no back in the days. It was considered griefing and I could be wrong, but I think you could be reported to a GM for it?

But either way, I still try to ask if it is okay if I jump in, and like I say, most of the time...the players are very nice and welcoming. I have had a couple of "No! Mine! Get bent N00b!" responses...but hey, there's another spawn along in a few minutes...and most of the time the rude players can't manage to carry all of that heavy old gold to the bank, so I help them lighten the load a little Just because!

 

[MalagAste]

My opinion is it's a Champ spawn..... So they did most the work.... big deal next time it might be you who did most the work..... it's a "public" spawn.... and it's meant for groups....

Now.... as far if I come to the Balron in Chaos and someone is there hunting it.... or the swoop, or Miasma or something where there is ONE of them.... I will ask if folk want to take turns... (as sometimes I would rather do so I have more time to loot the corpse and can freely run to the bank for a second).... and if the person says NO then I move on..... I do get rather annoyed with folk who come to a place like the Oni or something and just start attacking them.... I find that VERY rude...

Another thing I find rude would be if I'm at the Yatsuma mines and I'm training a pet on the shadow ele and another tamer comes in and peaces it putting their pet on it.... Now I don't mind if they jump in and start training their pet on it.... but to purposely pull it off my pet onto theirs when I clearly took the time to go get it and pull it somewhere safer and take the agro from my pet to theirs that is RUDE..... I had someone do that several times to me.... then when she got mad because I "returned" the favor by peacing it again and putting my pet on it... she then went so far as to go and get her dexer and come back and kill it..... NOt only did she do that but she then followed me down to the shadow eles and proceeded to kill everyone I was training my pet on.... each time it spawned... finally I paged on her for harassment and then left... I play to have fun not to be harassed.... I guess when your 6 years old or whatever that seems like a logical thing to do....... "ooo! Wha! I didn't get my way I can't take that persons spot..... Wha! I'll just go and ruin their time."..... Like being back in grade school with the 10 year olds. I'm well beyond that now... apparently some folk aren't. What she said to me was some other guy did it to her so that made that behavior right for her to do... And she actually stated right there that she would purposely kill each shadow ele I got so I couldn't train my pet there......

To me if that's how you treat other people in game I wonder how many friends you have in life... that's just sad... Thankfully I am not a child and I know how to dig up my own shadow ele.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Am I reading this incorrectly? I have received rewards from just working the spawn and not touching the champ. I have received rewards from fighting both. I have yet to receive a reward from fighting the champ only.

I have no idea if you're reading it correctly or not, really.....I'm just conveying others' reports.

Others report that you can get it from the spawn alone, and from the champ alone, but seem to have the best chance if you work the spawn AND hit the champ.

Whether this is how it's supposed to work or not? We don't really know.

-Galen's player

 

[Tina Small]

Anyhow, I'd like to hear other folks opinion on this. Were we in the wrong here? If a Champ is up, should you stand down entirely until the other group finishes up, or at the least ask permission?

Most likely, I would wait until the other group finishes, unless they told me to jump in. If I was doing a champ spawn outside Fel and someone else showed up, I doubt I'd say anything at all, no matter what stage it was at, unless they started to act like idiots and drag spawn on me or never say thank you for rezzes.

 

[aarons6]

for me i just jump in on anything, champs, doom, regular spawn.. who cares.. its a game.. if I'm out and i want to do something and someone happens to be there at the same time, just attack away..

if they complain, i ignore them. this is probably why my ignore list is so long..

 

[Uvtha]

But what do you say about the people who work the Fel Spawns only to get wiped out by a network of reds when the Champ Spawn comes up? Aren't they just as victimized?

Well honestly I dont think the current shards systems are really that balanced. Only because people who dont usualy play in fel that come to fel are tottaly unprepared to defend themselves. Thats one of the big reasons I think a facet split was a horrible idea.

Ideally you bring enough people to defend the spawn, but on regular shards its really hard to expect people who spend 90% of thier time in tram to do much of anything against a real player. They likely will just get shocked by it.

And for me all matters of monster fighting ettiquite should really follow these lines: If you don't care if people think you are a ****** bag like aarons6 seems not to, then do what you want. If you don't want to irritate people... just ask before you jump in. Its just common courtesy.

 

[Maplestone]

a real player.

You have an interesting perspective on common courtesy

(edit: I don't think you and I are really all that far apart in our feelings about spawn etiquette - we just come at it from slightly different default states - since the Tram-rules champ spawns were widely ignored in the past, I tend to see them like a fun invasion event rather than something to be efficiently farmed ... but after we get past that difference, I'd like to think we have pretty similar ideas of what is and isn't appropriate - neither of us are wild about aarons6's post)

 

[Farscape]

Umm not fussed either way here I arrive first object is to fight the lag monster if this works usually the spawn is over my reward is a few gold coins that fall out of the pockets of the greedy

 

[Gheed]

I have no idea if you're reading it correctly or not, really.....I'm just conveying others' reports.

Others report that you can get it from the spawn alone, and from the champ alone, but seem to have the best chance if you work the spawn AND hit the champ.

Whether this is how it's supposed to work or not? We don't really know.

-Galen's player

Well if the choice is believing what other people say... without proof... or that the devs coded it right... well that's a tough call. In this case proof would be a video of a toon in at a freshly chalenged idol not damaging a single spawned mob until the boss pops then fighting only the boss. That's a pretty rare scenario.

I have done quite a few champ only fights with no drop. I have 2 pc's and dual box an archer for faster resing. Sometimes I use him to fight the champ if it's a better fit. No drops on the archer but I have goten drops on my sidelined necro while killing the champ with my archer.

I have aslo got a drop from a coon spawn after only killing a handful of the first level spawn. I afk'd and came back to a swamp tile in my pouch.

Point is it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to get on the list (if there is one). IF it does require working the spawn. And we don't know the details (as we shouldn't). IF you have to work the spawn to get rights on the drop, do you have to kill a certain number of mobs? A certain fame level? Does 1 lvl 4 spawn = 10 level 1 spawn? Does spawn count if you kill it after the boss pops? Does challenging the idol get you rights? So these people who claim to only get it on a boss fight did they really do absolutely nothing but fight the champ?

With the drop rates so incredibly low on these things I can't really believe any theories at this time (not even my own). If you happen to get lucky and get 2 or 3 drops in a day then you might think you have the system figured out.

I went 4 days of heavy spawn advancing/champ fighting with no drop. Then I jump on a few with my guild and get two in a row. Does this mean that fighting in a guild gives you a better chance of getting a drop? Not at all.

 

[Deb]

Just a quick question....these items are a permanent part of Champ
Spawns now are they not?
If so, not sure why people get upset with someone jumping thier
"So-Called Spawn". I haven't ran into any rude people so far
on Napa. If I come in real late i.e. quarter life or less on Boss I will try to keep people healed and rez them if they die.

 

[Canucklehead73]

Well I have to admit I am canadian so I'm pretty polite in-game, if I go to an event/champ and someone is working the champ/boss and almost done I will simply heal them or move on, but if they have just started I simply ask if I can join in... I have yet to be refused participation.

As for someone declaring the champ/boss "thiers" well they can say what they like, the game is open to public play and there are no rules giving ownership to anything other than what you earn as loot/drops.

Doesn't mean you have to be rude and selfish about spawns though...

As for dealing with players freaking out... I don't like to cause a fuss so I tend to ignore them for the most part and try to be helpful, it usually works out in the end if they only see positives from you.

Personally I agree with Prince Caspian on the me me me greed thing, so I don't really have much pity for these types of players, I play the game to play and have fun, a reward is gravy, but not the sole reason to do anything in UO. If that's the reason they want to horde a chemp/boss... Tough.

 

[the 4th man]

You did nothing wrong. Ettiqutte, spare me. If the powers that be wanted champs to be a private matter, then boundries and force fields would be set.

You did as others do and have been doing since champs came out. Also note, you pay a monthly fee for an online game. This game allows you to play where, and when you want.

If others want to call names, let them, enabling ignore works fine.
I'm sure others will disagree with me, but, oh well, it's a free world game.


later