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We're talking about a game where people can cast spells and control dragons. Let's not bring up realism...m'kay?...la
I think you just secretly want to rip guys pants off.
R
RichDC
Guest
I like the idea of all of these and to be honest cant see why they couldnt all be implemented.
That being said if i had to make a choice it would be to bring back stealing containers...just the other day i snooped a reds pack to find 3 crystalines 2 ornies, HOM, Crimmy and other loot i would have given my life many times to steal!!! of course all insured but that would have been the steal of the century if i could steal his bag and contents!!! and the ultimate kick in the teeth was the bag would have been a stealable weight 11stones!!!
A lot of very interesting suggestions so far. I definitely agree that when trying to steal from a stack that exceed that max weight permitted you should at least have a chance to get a portion of it. I didn't really investigate too much of the PvP side of the code while adding the monster stealables, so I'm not going to make any promises as far as what can be done and the ETA.
As far as the potions turning to lesser potions when stolen, this has been a long standing problem. People better than me struggled with it, so again, no promises, but I'm stubborn and don't give up easily. That and the disguise kit issue are on the to be fixed bugs list.
I wouldn't hold my breath about changes to stealing containers because, among other things, it allowed thieves to steal blessed and/or insured items that happened to be inside the containers. I'm not saying never, but it's not very likely. If we turned that back on, it would need to verify that no non-stealable items are in that container otherwise the theft would be denied. And with such a condition, all players would have to do is plop an empty spellbook or runebook in the bag et voilà, no stealing for you! That means waste of coding.
Some requests, like passive detect, weight increase and allowing items such as BODs to be stolen fall into the balancing category. They need to be carefully thought out and discussed with the team to avoid creating new issues.
You guys have been patient, but I'm going to have to ask you to be a bit more patient still. We are crunching on SA so do not expect a big publish dedicated to thieves. As time permit, I will try to get some fixes and tweaks in over the next few publishes, barring any insane coding hurdles.
As far as the potions turning to lesser potions when stolen, this has been a long standing problem. People better than me struggled with it, so again, no promises, but I'm stubborn and don't give up easily. That and the disguise kit issue are on the to be fixed bugs list.
I wouldn't hold my breath about changes to stealing containers because, among other things, it allowed thieves to steal blessed and/or insured items that happened to be inside the containers. I'm not saying never, but it's not very likely. If we turned that back on, it would need to verify that no non-stealable items are in that container otherwise the theft would be denied. And with such a condition, all players would have to do is plop an empty spellbook or runebook in the bag et voilà, no stealing for you! That means waste of coding.
Some requests, like passive detect, weight increase and allowing items such as BODs to be stolen fall into the balancing category. They need to be carefully thought out and discussed with the team to avoid creating new issues.
You guys have been patient, but I'm going to have to ask you to be a bit more patient still. We are crunching on SA so do not expect a big publish dedicated to thieves. As time permit, I will try to get some fixes and tweaks in over the next few publishes, barring any insane coding hurdles.
Thanks for the reply Regine 
I still like the idea of thief BOD's. Kind of adding in a scavenger hunt aspect for stealing.
Now, how about items getting titles on them if a thief steals it like begging.
Like "stolen by XXX" or "acquired by stealing" for certain items? Just a fun idea, not sure how tedious it might be for coding it in, but it would add in some bragging rights for thieves and some fun
I still like the idea of thief BOD's. Kind of adding in a scavenger hunt aspect for stealing.
Now, how about items getting titles on them if a thief steals it like begging.
Like "stolen by XXX" or "acquired by stealing" for certain items? Just a fun idea, not sure how tedious it might be for coding it in, but it would add in some bragging rights for thieves and some fun
T
Traveller
Guest
Now that I think of it... this is maybe more related to factions, but why in the world can't I steal a sigil from a faction enemy's pack???
Please feel free to pass along to the team that if they have any questions...we are more than willing to give them opinions from a players perspective. The thief class has been ignored or nerfed for so long, we have been jaded, but do have honest opinions that may help guide the team when they are wondering about certain skills and rulesets. Like I mentioned before, try to get someone with theif experience (PvP thief) on the team. There have been former players brought onto the team in the past. Nothing can give them a better incite into the profession then from someone who has played as a thief over the years...la
There is absolutely no reason the sigil shouldn't be stealable out of any players pack...including those from your own faction...la
S
Shinobi
Guest
I know i said that i was done posting on this forum, but i got an idea that just might work...
A dungeon run by thieves. In order to enter this dungeon, a player cannot have insured/blessed items in their backpack (excluding runebooks, etc...or if that presents a problem, just tell them they can't even have that) nor equipped on their paperdoll (or maybe it can place a temporary "curse" on all of your items, INCLUDING runebooks, which turns back to normal upon exiting). There is an "enter at your own risk" policy. The dungeon itself would require rewards that would be well worth this risk. This would also make people actually use cursed items. This dungeon would HAVE to be in Felucca only. The point is, players either uninsure their items or (the more likely outcome) use cursed items. There would be monsters/npc thieves in this dungeon that would fight the players. However, these monsters/npcs would not attack players who are in the Thief NPC Guild (not sure if it's even possible for npcs/monsters to judge this). I know something of this sort is possible, because i can be mauled by stupid pixies in Ilshnar, while players with good karma are left alone. This cannot be karma-based however, seeing as though it's not only thieves who have bad karma. The players would have to fight some form of boss at the end of the dungeon, like a spawn.
So what's the thief's role in this? Thieves would, of course, have to be perma-grey in this dungeon (but in this dungeon only, because there is more than one type of thief in the game, and bringing back all-around perma-grey would nerf certain thieves), allowing for it to be fair for players to attack without going grey themselves. Thieves could run around the dungeon disarm stealing players, or even killing/looting them.
Here's where it gets exciting. Each spawn would produce minor items which can be stolen and used by anyone, and ONE stealable token. After defeating the boss, one of the players would receive the stealable token. If the player manages to escape the dungeon with this token, he can then use it to redeem a well-deserved reward. Thieves cannot use this item in any way (such as the recent blessed quest items, which could not be traded/dropped/banked), so escaping with it for himself is pointless (a loophole in this would be to escape with it, leave the Thief NPC Guild, then redeem the item...so this would have to be prevented also). This would also prevent players from joining the Thief NPC Guild (so that they wouldn't be attacked by the monsters/npcs), because if they did, they wouldn't be able to retreive the item.
As for the items that are redeemable by the token, i really have no clue. These items would have to be really valueable considering the risk to get them. What's the point of doing all this if no one will enter the dungeon?
A thief has only one purpose for stealing this token, to make it to another section of the dungeon, and place it on an altar...all the while being hunted by the players in the dungeon. Placing this item on the altar would cause some sort of major reaction. Here's what i HOPE can happen:
When this item is placed on the altar, non-thief players receive a system message saying to escape the dungeon immediately. After 1 minute, any non-thief in the dungeon will be instantly killed (the thief's form of the guard whack). Thieves could then search the dungeon for the poor few who didn't escape in time, and loot their bodies dry.
This would be extreeeeeemely exciting for both parties...and the risks would be pre-warned before entering the dungeon (the same when a player in trammel is about to enter a Felucca gate). The best plan for this would be to release it as a new upgrade for the game (such as Mondain's Legacy and Samurai Empire). Thieves would have their world handed back to them, and life outside of the dungeon would continue as normal. This would, in my opinion, end the long controversy.
P.S. There could even be a section of the dungeon for thieves to hang out and wait for the next spawn, with chairs and everything. There are so many ideas that can be put into this. Please post with your opinions.
A dungeon run by thieves. In order to enter this dungeon, a player cannot have insured/blessed items in their backpack (excluding runebooks, etc...or if that presents a problem, just tell them they can't even have that) nor equipped on their paperdoll (or maybe it can place a temporary "curse" on all of your items, INCLUDING runebooks, which turns back to normal upon exiting). There is an "enter at your own risk" policy. The dungeon itself would require rewards that would be well worth this risk. This would also make people actually use cursed items. This dungeon would HAVE to be in Felucca only. The point is, players either uninsure their items or (the more likely outcome) use cursed items. There would be monsters/npc thieves in this dungeon that would fight the players. However, these monsters/npcs would not attack players who are in the Thief NPC Guild (not sure if it's even possible for npcs/monsters to judge this). I know something of this sort is possible, because i can be mauled by stupid pixies in Ilshnar, while players with good karma are left alone. This cannot be karma-based however, seeing as though it's not only thieves who have bad karma. The players would have to fight some form of boss at the end of the dungeon, like a spawn.
So what's the thief's role in this? Thieves would, of course, have to be perma-grey in this dungeon (but in this dungeon only, because there is more than one type of thief in the game, and bringing back all-around perma-grey would nerf certain thieves), allowing for it to be fair for players to attack without going grey themselves. Thieves could run around the dungeon disarm stealing players, or even killing/looting them.
Here's where it gets exciting. Each spawn would produce minor items which can be stolen and used by anyone, and ONE stealable token. After defeating the boss, one of the players would receive the stealable token. If the player manages to escape the dungeon with this token, he can then use it to redeem a well-deserved reward. Thieves cannot use this item in any way (such as the recent blessed quest items, which could not be traded/dropped/banked), so escaping with it for himself is pointless (a loophole in this would be to escape with it, leave the Thief NPC Guild, then redeem the item...so this would have to be prevented also). This would also prevent players from joining the Thief NPC Guild (so that they wouldn't be attacked by the monsters/npcs), because if they did, they wouldn't be able to retreive the item.
As for the items that are redeemable by the token, i really have no clue. These items would have to be really valueable considering the risk to get them. What's the point of doing all this if no one will enter the dungeon?
A thief has only one purpose for stealing this token, to make it to another section of the dungeon, and place it on an altar...all the while being hunted by the players in the dungeon. Placing this item on the altar would cause some sort of major reaction. Here's what i HOPE can happen:
When this item is placed on the altar, non-thief players receive a system message saying to escape the dungeon immediately. After 1 minute, any non-thief in the dungeon will be instantly killed (the thief's form of the guard whack). Thieves could then search the dungeon for the poor few who didn't escape in time, and loot their bodies dry.
This would be extreeeeeemely exciting for both parties...and the risks would be pre-warned before entering the dungeon (the same when a player in trammel is about to enter a Felucca gate). The best plan for this would be to release it as a new upgrade for the game (such as Mondain's Legacy and Samurai Empire). Thieves would have their world handed back to them, and life outside of the dungeon would continue as normal. This would, in my opinion, end the long controversy.
P.S. There could even be a section of the dungeon for thieves to hang out and wait for the next spawn, with chairs and everything. There are so many ideas that can be put into this. Please post with your opinions.
Why all the push for NPC non PvP thieving? The profession is most fun when played against other players. Player who want to kill you because you stole something from them. What is up with all the Doom type suggestions?...la
P
peanutbutter
Guest
i dunno. i would like to see it more PvP friendly and focused, but maybe others want more non-pvp stuff?
S
Sweeney
Guest
Here's something I didn't realize until I read it on UHall.. why are the new pub 57 potions insurable? That's silly and flies in the face of this thread's intention.
Agreed!
As I posted in UHall, why on earth are they "tossing thieves a bone" with new PvM stealables if they are going to be insurable?! It's a bone for PvM stealing but ignoring PvP stealing here. It would be a nice bone for stealing if they could be stolen from players as well. (in other words not be insurable)
EA/Mythic, please don't let these items be insurable!
S
Shinobi
Guest
You misunderstood my post i guess, if it is the one you're replying to. The only thing the NPC thieves will be doing in the dungeon is serving as another type of enemy to the non-thief players...like the thief-equivalent of pixies in ilshnar. This will give the dungeon a thief-feel. This isn't a doom suggestion at all. It'd be an area that prohibits insurance, you can name it "Thieves' Hideaway" or something. There would be so much PvP going on inside it'd be rediculous. Think of it as a football-type game with 2 teams...thieves and non-thieves. The only way to get the token is to get through us, without insurance on.
S
Sweeney
Guest
This thread should be separated into PvP ideas and PvM ideas. Else this will be too cluttered (it already is).
The PvP are fairly easy to implement without much coding. They basically involve changes to item status or player flags.
The PvM ideas require massive amounts of new coding and are best left on the daydream stack. Not knocking them.. some are good, but not likely to be introduced anytime soon.
The PvP are fairly easy to implement without much coding. They basically involve changes to item status or player flags.
The PvM ideas require massive amounts of new coding and are best left on the daydream stack. Not knocking them.. some are good, but not likely to be introduced anytime soon.
T
Traveller
Guest
Well, considering the amount of bugs connected with player flagging in the past and present, I wuoldn't be so sure that changing flagging rules doesn't require lot of work.
But yes, I agree with the point. On the whole most of pvm suggestions require a larger effort than most of pvp suggestions.
T
Traveller
Guest
Suggestion already presented above. I have no problem with that AS LONG as the perma status is only discernible with the help of a detective (never played a thief on OSI when perma was still active, but I have often read that with perma you could discern if a player was perma or not without the need to attack him). You shouldn't be SEEN as grey by a random character until they take the chance to attack you, otherwise you ruin it for every thief who enjoys the "disguise" aspect of the profession. I am not speaking much about the con artists, but also for the KoS thieves that decide to use the incognito spell or a disguise kit (assuming they get fixed) to walk among blues.
However, for thieves who enjoy being always grey, it might be nice to insert in the game an option or mechanism that always shows your true color.
By default, all non-stackable items are insurable. I didn't change it because I figured you guys would like to be able to hold on to the items you had just stolen in case you got ganked in a dungeon or at a champ spawn. But since the majority of you seem to be in favor of them being non-insurable and as this would remain in the spirit of UO where consumables normally aren't, I have made the change.
You cannot currently see it on TC1 but once it goes worldwide, you won't be able to insure the new stealables. They aren't cursed though, so bags of sending will still work on them.
S
Sweeney
Guest
Thank you Regine.
Now just to get you guys to make the bags of sending stealable...la
S
Sweeney
Guest
Agreed.. Why aren't BoS's stealable? (Again this goes to my point of any uninsured/unblessed/unquest item should be made stealable.)
Add "Stolen from" and "Stolen by" tags to items after they're stolen. Maybe limit the tags to just the first time they're taken so it doesn't get ridiculous.
edit: Also, tags should not show in Trammel. This isn't a beauty contest.
edit: Also, tags should not show in Trammel. This isn't a beauty contest.
Probably because they are considered a container despite them not really being able to hold anything but charges.
I imagine there could be issues trying to make one specific container stealable, whilst leaving the rest.
Though I don't see an issue with blessed/insured items in containers being stolen. Back when X-Mas gifts were popular, pre-AoS, people were always warned that "placing a blessed item in a container may cause you to lose it". Not to just thieves, but that it would also fall on your corpse. This was a long understood mechanic of the game. The only people using bags of insured items in fel are ones that have illegal scripts requiring it.
Though I don't see an issue with blessed/insured items in containers being stolen. Back when X-Mas gifts were popular, pre-AoS, people were always warned that "placing a blessed item in a container may cause you to lose it". Not to just thieves, but that it would also fall on your corpse. This was a long understood mechanic of the game. The only people using bags of insured items in fel are ones that have illegal scripts requiring it.
I agree, there should not be a restiction on stealing containers. As long as the plaers are aware that their blessed or insured items can be stolen if they are not in the top of their pack...the restriction should be canceled...la
C
Calliope
Guest
All this is great, but what is or is not stealable and how much it weighs is irrelevant if I can't get near my mark because of passive detect!
What's that?...lapassive detect!
S
Sweeney
Guest
That thing mongbats doWhat's that?...lapassive detect!
Never had that problem on Siege...la
S
Sweeney
Guest
Mongbats and dark wisps are the only Siege mobs that reveal me.. must be that 80 stealth of yours against my 75
LOL, nice...la
S
Salty Pete
Guest
I'll be honest... I haven't bothered to play my thief since AoS. The profession was that brutalized. I have read about how AoS thieves have adapted, and quite frankly did not find such a play style to my liking.
I don't want to steal regs, bandages and decorations. I don't want to comb dungeons with a macro script to get an item that spawns every twenty fifth day at 5:01 AM.
What I liked to do with my thief was steal items I want (items of value) from other players. Those players then had the chance to bash my character's head in for doing so.
If you can not or will not allow a thief to steal items of value from other players, then make those types of items available on monsters. We should be able to go into Ilshenar and steal artifacts and other high end items from Paragon mobs. Items of value.
I do understand that power scrolls have value, and are stealable, but my character isn't a merchant. I want ITEMS. The same kinds of items that other players use. If I have the balls to run up to a crimson dragon and steal from it, give me a shot at a crimson cincture.
With that being said, I still understand that there are people who only play a thief to cause chaos and get chased... For those people stealing regs, bandies and scrolls from players will have to suffice.
I don't want to steal regs, bandages and decorations. I don't want to comb dungeons with a macro script to get an item that spawns every twenty fifth day at 5:01 AM.
What I liked to do with my thief was steal items I want (items of value) from other players. Those players then had the chance to bash my character's head in for doing so.
If you can not or will not allow a thief to steal items of value from other players, then make those types of items available on monsters. We should be able to go into Ilshenar and steal artifacts and other high end items from Paragon mobs. Items of value.
I do understand that power scrolls have value, and are stealable, but my character isn't a merchant. I want ITEMS. The same kinds of items that other players use. If I have the balls to run up to a crimson dragon and steal from it, give me a shot at a crimson cincture.
With that being said, I still understand that there are people who only play a thief to cause chaos and get chased... For those people stealing regs, bandies and scrolls from players will have to suffice.
Hehehe, indeed. When I am bored nothing gets my jollies up like stealing a big stack of faction bandies (which with the current idiotic tram silver/gold exchange can be worth up to 200k per steal) in the middle of 8-9 OJ's.
I must say, I'm loving the new stackables. Stealing 10 smoke bombs or cursed apples every 20 seconds or so isn't a bad way to stock a vendor. Now if we can just get above the whole 12-stone thing...
I must say, I'm loving the new stackables. Stealing 10 smoke bombs or cursed apples every 20 seconds or so isn't a bad way to stock a vendor. Now if we can just get above the whole 12-stone thing...
B
Black magick
Guest
Yea, perhaps double the amount of stones per 10 skill? or 1 per 5 skill.