Your not a real thief IF!

[Vyal]

You have to join a tram guild to call yourself good.



Every single thing I read here had to deal with some idiot joining a tram guild with a kit.
DUDE
I have stolen 120 magery's and countless other scrolls & replicas.
Just today I got a 120 archery, anatomy & rikky skull all in one run.
You thieves are just terrible, you want a thief challenge just try me.
I play Legends, I know you got a char there Smurf.
It wont get ya very far unless ya join a tram guild tho scrub.

 

[Nonel]

snap: I've never been a guild thief in my life! :mylittlepony:

 

[Mairut]

 

[Taylor]

You have to join a tram guild to call yourself good.

That's real.

 

[Johnny Hooker]

Well, you haven't read every thing on the forum then pal.

There are three of us on Cats and all we do is straight steals.

No persuasion thefts. No guild stealing. No cons or scams.

Just using that in-game skills: stealing.

Read up some, will ya?

There ARE some of us left.

 

[Taylor]

Well, you haven't read every thing on the forum then pal.

There are three of us on Cats and all we do is straight steals.

No persuasion thefts. No guild stealing. No cons or scams.

Just using that in-game skills: stealing.

Read up some, will ya?

There ARE some of us left.

That's because your in THIEF. THIEF doesn't do that stuff. That was a key contention with P0O.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

No persuasion thefts.

LOL, persuasion thefts? A made up name by a group of made up thieves to justify their scamming...la

 

[Shqiptar]

LOL, persuasion thefts? A made up name by a group of made up thieves to justify their scamming...la

I wouldn't call it a "persuasion" theft, but it is a theft none the less.

 

[Omnius]

You're not a real thief if you're not clever. Also, real thieves know how to spell.

Personally, I engage in a variety of stealing tactics. I use stealing or the periphery skills of hiding and stealth.

I steal in towns, dungeons, houses, fel, trammel, siege, and even the middle of nowhere.

Vyal, I tend to be greedy about spawns. I find it easier and often more fun to take all the scrolls on a red at a spawn than to take a couple on a thief. Why take a piece when I can take the whole cake.

However, I do believe I have only one episode in which I joined a guild. In said episode, I killed some sub-par guild pks. I do make jokes about joining guilds but doing it is usually a lot more effort than I'm willing to give. Truth be told, we're all thieves here. We have our preferred methods. Many of us disapprove of other thieves' methods but all that is required to be a thief is to be a member of the thieves guild and steal from players using proper game mechanics.

 

[Taylor]

. . . all that is required to be a thief is to be a member of the thieves guild and steal from players using proper game mechanics.

So no thief's code for you, eh? Can't say I'm surprised. Guild thief.

 

[Mairut]

So...

Burglary...

On one hand, you're taking advantage of someone with an "open to public" house, who doesn't use detect hidden, and believes his doors should be set to "everyone". Opportunity, right?

On the other hand, you are using game mechanics to "steal" something, but you are not using the Steal skill.

But what if I had just randomly met said homeowner and they randomly gated someone or a group to see their lovely new home, and took it upon himself (or herself) without anyone asking, to grant access or friend a thief to his house, and then said thief just waited around for the unlocking to begin? The first part is a real scenario, btw. I haven't ever waited around long enough to burglar anything though.

Does anyone get the parallels I'm trying to draw here? Cause that's kind of important for this next part:

Now, I've never joined a guild to steal from anyone (apart from joining the Thieves Guild to steal from people... haha) but it seems to me that the two (guild stealing and burglary) are very similar in most circumstances. One seems to be generally accepted ("haha, you didn't detect hidden your house you nub!!") vs. OMG YOU SCUM OF THE EARTH ("Thiefy McThieferson took advantage of my guild invite and stole some stuff!! Naughty, naughty, naughty!!")

I'm going to take the opportunity here to point out, that when guild stealing most actually try to use the Steal skill.

Gonna agree with Omnius here (if anyone cares) that as long as The Code isn't broken, live and let live.

... Truth be told, we're all thieves here. We have our preferred methods. Many of us disapprove of other thieves' methods but all that is required to be a thief is to be a member of the thieves guild and steal from players using proper game mechanics.

 

[Nonel]

I never approved of guild thieving. It is too easy. To me, it is like farming animals versus hunting them. It is a lot easier to round 'em up when they trust you. I'm in it for the challenge. After all, this game is too dead to worry about profiting in.

I hate to defend them, but, the profession here is "pickpocketing". Anyone that uses the stealing skill to lift an item from another player's pack is a UO thief (a pickpocket). Even guild thieves fall under that.

 

[Viper09]

I have always thought about joining a guild with a disguise kit to steal from guild members but I just can't make myself do it. Something just seems a little wrong about it to me. However I wouldn't look down on someone who does that given how lacking our pool of targets is getting. As far as I'm concerned though, you're not a real thief if you have never been to fel, or even avoid going to fel, or stolen from players.

 

[Omnius]

If you have a problem taking from players using purely in game and legitimate mechanics, you're probably not a thief.

 

[Triberius]

If you have a problem taking from players using purely in game and legitimate mechanics, that grant the pickpocket title, you're probably not a thief.

Fixed that for ya.

 

[Francois_Villon]

Seriously, if you aren't using the in-game pickpocket skill then you are just a scammer/con.

And you probably live in your parent's basement, just saying.

This debate won't ever end though because with the bastardization of the skill, in came the scammers.

 

[Mairut]

You don't have to steal every single one of your items in fel in order to be a thief, and you don't have to use the steal skill on every targeted item in order to be a thief.

However, if there are people that are worried more about how someone is stealing then how closely they are following The Code, then maybe we should change the damn thing so we have some congruency.

Rule 12: You always have to use the stealing skill to steal something, and you always.. ALWAYS have to be on the Felucca facet while doing so.

Oh, and we can't venerate dip****s like Galad anymore because (from what I've gathered from what I've read in his episodes) he never used the stealing skill either, and simply used monsters to kill other players before looting them.

And maybe we can make an addendum or a note on the bottom of The Code that states that there may be different versions of The Code depending on what shard you are on, and depending on who is running the main thief guild on said shard at a given moment, and how much they like sucking up to the general populous.


Is that o.k. with everybody?

Oh, and I just had a great idea!! Maybe we should have pony and fluffy bunny fairs too, and invite all the trammies to a trammy events on each shard and hand out Whispering Roses and frolick through the Brit fields singing that stupid Barney song, and promise to never ever do any naughty things like stealing ever again!!

/sarcasm

Who cares how anybody steals? This has been pointed out before, and it's worth repeating.. it doesn't matter how you steal, because they are just going to hate you after you do it anyway. It's not like the profession is going to get any worse a rep from someone guild stealing than it would if nobody had ever thought of burglary, guild stealing, or pulling a scam and trying to label it as thieving, and just followed my made up rule #12.

What's done is done. Thieves have stolen from guilds in Trammel, and any Trammel guild will from now on (or whenever it started) ALWAYS be on the lookout for thieves. It doesn't matter, because everyone will ALWAYS hate (or "hate") thieves.

 

[Raptor85]

So no thief's code for you, eh? Can't say I'm surprised. Guild thief.

Thieves code only applies to thieves, there is nothing in the code that applies to others. A guild theft, so long as the player stolen from is NOT a thief, is perfectly acceptable by the code.

As for "persuasion thefts" as they're known, I've never done that as it's just not my style (also somewhat unnecessary on siege), but I have nothing against it. When the players moved to tram and insurance became common it bacame the only way to get a decent steal on most shards, and I can fully respect and understant why most thieves have gone that way. (I'm talking just burgleries, guild infiltration, and house infiltration type thefts, I draw the line at full on scamming, such as abusing trade window mechanics or using ICQ etc...that goes outside of normal game mechanics and doesnt sit well with me). And before anyone chimes in and says there's plenty to steal in fel on most shards, I'll preemptively call bull**** on it, you'll get the occasional rube with a few high priced items, some bandages and potions, or if you feel like sitting around in despise all day you can steal power scrolls and sots....but it's pretty damned limiting and nothing of particularly high value to steal, not to mention boring doing that all the time.

Also, threads like this are nothing new, someone just got their panties in a knot because they lost a few pixels, generally from not paying attention and lowering their guard (lets face it, not many thieves left in UO, profession has been devestated by most chances since ren, a bit sad but it does make it easier as fewer people expect to run into one). I mean, I've had people freak out and send me dozens of nasty PM's, and flood my email for even some of the most insignificant of steals, just gotta sigh and laugh a little at how personally some people take losing in a competitive online game and move on.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Oh, and we can't venerate dip****s like Galad anymore because (from what I've gathered from what I've read in his episodes) he never used the stealing skill either, and simply used monsters to kill other players before looting them.

Galad, at least Evil Galad, was never and never claimed to be a thief. He was a looter, and was proud of it...la

 

[Mairut]

Galad, at least Evil Galad, was never and never claimed to be a thief. He was a looter, and was proud of it...la

Soo... it's ok and even funny in some cases for someone to kill and loot people (or it's fun to read episodes of someone who did it 13 years ago), but thieves have to hold themselves to a higher standard? That's... kind of funny, actually. We do have our pride though, I guess.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Galad, at least Evil Galad, was never and never claimed to be a thief. He was a looter, and was proud of it...la

Soo... it's ok and even funny in some cases for someone to kill and loot people (or it's fun to read episodes of someone who did it 13 years ago), but thieves have to hold themselves to a higher standard? That's... kind of funny, actually. We do have our pride though, I guess.

Sure it is. The issue at hand is, Galad never called himself a thief, unlike others here who use other than stealing skills to attain an item...la

 

[Mairut]

Sure it is. The issue at hand is, Galad never called himself a thief, unlike others here who use other than stealing skills to attain an item...la

The issue at hand is the fact that some people have a problem with guild stealing and persuasion thefts. Killing someone and looting them shouldn't be considered any better or worse then guild stealing or persuasion thefts.

You really should have looked at the entire argument rather than nit-picking something that was said before /sarcasm. Why not go after the Rule #12 thing, or the pony and bunny festival idea?

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Maybe if you were on the forum when we created it, you would understand it better?

Someone who loots goods from players corpses or picking up things that are unlocked are: Looters
Someone who cons a player into giving them an item: Scammer
Someone that uses the stealing skill to acquire an item from another player: Thief

Can someone who loots and scams also be a thief? Sure they can, but not if they aren't using the stealing skill. Joining guilds in Trammel is (was) fun, and using the stealing skill on a hapless guildmate is playing a thief, but to join a guild to kill guildmates to get their loot is looting, and joining a guild in an attempt to have the guild hand you goods is scamming.

Trying to redefine terms doesn't change the facts...la

 

[Mairut]

Thank you, Rico, for defining what each of the terms means.

Maybe if you were on the forum when we created it, you would understand it better?

This has nothing to do with anything. I like how you try to belittle what I'm saying by pointing how you've been on this forum since it's inception; however, I was pretty sure you stopped playing UO some time ago. Have you started playing again? Oh, and your contribution to the discussion still doesn't have anything to do with the "issue at hand", and you are still nitpicking one thing that I said before a /sarcasm line. You have noticed that "My Mood" is set to "amused", right? That wasn't an accident. Just FYI.

Please try again, or don't. It won't make any difference to me until you actually state what your views are, or how you feel, about the "subject at hand".

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

I was pretty sure you stopped playing UO some time ago. Have you started playing again?

Why does that matter?

Oh, and your contribution to the discussion still doesn't have anything to do with the "issue at hand", and you are still nitpicking one thing that I said before a /sarcasm line. You have noticed that "My Mood" is set to "amused", right? That wasn't an accident. Just FYI.

Please try again, or don't. It won't make any difference to me until you actually state what your views are, or how you feel, about the "subject at hand".

You want my opinion? Fine. I have always disliked it when players would come to the forum to post about their "steals" when they weren't steals at all. I have no problem with looting or scamming (persuasion theft) but I do when players come in here and attempt to make it seem as though they are fantastic "thieves" because of the ways they get items outside of the stealing skill...la

 

[Omnius]

Why does that matter?



You want my opinion? Fine. I have always disliked it when players would come to the forum to post about their "steals" when they weren't steals at all. I have no problem with looting or scamming (persuasion theft) but I do when players come in here and attempt to make it seem as though they are fantastic "thieves" because of the ways they get items outside of the stealing skill...la

Some people's children....

 

[Fabolous1]

You're not a real thief if you're not clever. Also, real thieves know how to spell.

Personally, I engage in a variety of stealing tactics. I use stealing or the periphery skills of hiding and stealth.

I steal in towns, dungeons, houses, fel, trammel, siege, and even the middle of nowhere.

Vyal, I tend to be greedy about spawns. I find it easier and often more fun to take all the scrolls on a red at a spawn than to take a couple on a thief. Why take a piece when I can take the whole cake.

However, I do believe I have only one episode in which I joined a guild. In said episode, I killed some sub-par guild pks. I do make jokes about joining guilds but doing it is usually a lot more effort than I'm willing to give. Truth be told, we're all thieves here. We have our preferred methods. Many of us disapprove of other thieves' methods but all that is required to be a thief is to be a member of the thieves guild and steal from players using proper game mechanics.

This. I respect the whole champ spawn thieving and ****, but I've made the most gold, by far, hustling my way into tram guilds and **** while still stealing undetected.

 

[Omnius]

Seriously, if you aren't using the in-game pickpocket skill then you are just a scammer/con.

And you probably live in your parent's basement, just saying.

This debate won't ever end though because with the bastardization of the skill, in came the scammers.

I've been stealing since the end of time. Since that time, every thief I ever played with stole, looted and where useful, killed to get stuff. All of it was encompassed in the thief play style.

Scamming is and always will be a horse of another color.

 

[Omnius]

So no thief's code for you, eh? Can't say I'm surprised. Guild thief.

Blatant trolling and slander by the way.

 

[kelmo]

You are not a real thief if you play one in a fantasy online game.

 

[Petra Fyde]

If there's nothing wrong with being a guild thief, how can it be slander to be called one?

I think this topic is merely going round in circles. Subject to review by the board's moderator I think, at least temporarily, it can be locked.