"you seem to anger the beast" & "You fail to tame the creature" : which is which ?

[popps]

Which of these 2 messages depends on Taming skill ?

I mean, when taming, one first needs to make it through the anger the beast thing and make a succesfull attempt at taming but not all attempts win the tame, only a fraction.

So, question is, which does taming control ? The right to a succesfull attempt at taming or the succesfull taming ? Or both ?

Do they go with the same chances ?

Since a succesfull taming depends on a succesfull attempt at taming but this is only a fraction of all attempts, does this mean that a succesfull taming is only a tiny, VERY tiny fraction of all attempts ?

How to calculate this combined probabilty ?

Thanks.

 

[RichDC]

You seem to anger the beast:

Occurse when attempting to tame basically all high end tameables(drakes, beetles, cus, ww's) this message will always appear i believe its a 1in20 chance of getting a succesful tame, regardless of skill.

You have failed to tame the creature:

You failed your taming skill, check is based on lore/taming vs base level of animal and number of times pre-tamed.

Edit: Stratics link

http://uo.stratics.com/content/skills/anim.php?sort=Taming

 

[Old Man of UO]

You seem to anger the beast:

Occurse when attempting to tame basically all high end tameables(drakes, beetles, cus, ww's) this message will always appear i believe its a 1in20 chance of getting a succesful tame, regardless of skill.
...

Almost... if you get a successful taming attempt in you do not anger the beast. If it is on the first try, you can just stand next to a cu sidhe and maybe successfully tame without ever going aggro. Of course, the other critters will try to bite you butt anyway.

 

[popps]

You seem to anger the beast:

Occurse when attempting to tame basically all high end tameables(drakes, beetles, cus, ww's) this message will always appear i believe its a 1in20 chance of getting a succesful tame, regardless of skill.

So, if that is unrelated to a tamer's skill level does a Tamer have any way to improve the chances at a succesfull attempt ?

Or there is nothing possible to do to lower the angers of the beast being tamed ?

 

[RichDC]

So, if that is unrelated to a tamer's skill level does a Tamer have any way to improve the chances at a succesfull attempt ?

Or there is nothing possible to do to lower the angers of the beast being tamed ?

No but in my experience you can rile them up and make it more difficult to tame, its why i prefer to honour tame everything rather than beat tame it(especially GD's).

That message unfortunatly is RNG, somedays youll never get it, others youll wait 50times to get one tame attempt.

 

[Zodiac19]

So, if that is unrelated to a tamer's skill level does a Tamer have any way to improve the chances at a succesfull attempt ?

Or there is nothing possible to do to lower the angers of the beast being tamed ?

Any creature with an anger cycle will always be a 1 in 20 chance to start the taming cycle, there is no way to change this.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

You anger ..... is the reaction of the mob that is hostile to being tamed. Some mobs do not get hostile at being tamed.

As far as I know this tends to be connected to your tameing skill level vs the mobs to tame level.

Neither condition will produce a 100% success or failure, but there sure does seem to be some kind of connection to me.

Example, while I was raising my tamer, there were sever spots to tame a Frenzied Ostard without it being able to get to me. I just put the old G15 keyboard into repeat tame last mob mode and it was like 30 to 40 minutes of "you anger ...." before I saw a "You start to tame". It took slightly more than 2 hours to tame that first Frenzied Ostard. I was at exactly the skill level required to tame it. And no, there was never a case of "You do not have a clear path ...".

The Failed to tame message is 100% based on the Tame cycle being started and again, in my opinion is connected to your tame skill vs the mobs To Tame requirement.

One can simply reflect back on this, when your tameing skill level was equal to or near that of a Drake, were you able to tame a Drake as quickly as you can at 120? Do you get more tame cycles started at 120 than when you were at the To Tame level of a Drake?

 

[RichDC]

One can simply reflect back on this, when your tameing skill level was equal to or near that of a Drake, were you able to tame a Drake as quickly as you can at 120? Do you get more tame cycles started at 120 than when you were at the To Tame level of a Drake?

I wasn't Aware Drakes where angered.

In fact im certain it only applies to:

Swampies
Dragons
WW's
Rune Beetles
Greaters
Nightmare/Dreads

And the only one i may be leaving out is fire steeds and hiryus.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Yes on Drakes, Fire steed, Hiryu, Token Reptalons, Frenzied Ostards, Bake Kitsunes, Cu Sidhe's, Fire Beetles, Blue Beetles ...

 

[Dragonchilde]

Definitely fire beetles. I herded one out for someone to tame, and it took FOREVER.

 

[popps]

You anger ..... is the reaction of the mob that is hostile to being tamed. Some mobs do not get hostile at being tamed.

As far as I know this tends to be connected to your tameing skill level vs the mobs to tame level.

So, for example, discording a beast and therefore reducing its tame level will make it less likely to be angered when trying to tame it ??

Anyone tried it ?

 

[Old Man of UO]

So, for example, discording a beast and therefore reducing its tame level will make it less likely to be angered when trying to tame it ??

Anyone tried it ?

Nope... discord doesn't work that way for taming. It lowers the barding level, not the taming level. But a nice guess. What it does do is lower skills so that it will hurt less when it hits you, but also makes it easier for you to hit the critter possibly interrupting the taming cycle. So kind of a trade off, but worth it for spell casting beasties.

 

[Wenchkin]

Which of these 2 messages depends on Taming skill ?

Well, I'm not sure a dev has ever posted exact figures concerning the angering cycle, but my experience has been that tamers with higher skill seem to break through the anger messages faster than the low skilled ones. So it seems there's a connection, but I don't think anyone has the exact figures. I certainly notice if my newbie tamers have their skill items on when I work the cu spawn for gains.

Since a succesfull taming depends on a succesfull attempt at taming but this is only a fraction of all attempts, does this mean that a succesfull taming is only a tiny, VERY tiny fraction of all attempts ?

How to calculate this combined probabilty ?

If you take even a 120 tamer out to tame a high end critter you'll find (generally speaking) that you get quite a few anger messages and then possibly a few tame attempts on top before a pet accepts you as owner. So yes, your success rate is small by the time you count up the anger cycles and taming cycles combined.

As for calculating probability... Well, we don't have all the figures to work it out, only the "taming difficulty" of a given critter.

The bottom line is this: if you want to tame a high end aggressive pet, you want the highest skill your template can accommodate. If you plan to tame high end beasts on a regular basis, you really want to get to 115, or better still 120 taming to give yourself the best chance available.

Wenchy

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

So, for example, discording a beast and therefore reducing its tame level will make it less likely to be angered when trying to tame it ??

Anyone tried it ?

As the Old Man said, Disco doesn't work that way ..... Directly.

It is my suspicion, that there is at least one and maybe more, hidden factors in the formula for taming an pet. One of these variables, in my opinion/speculation, is the combined str+int (yours) vs the mobs ..... hidden factor. IF (and one must keep in mind this is pure speculation based on observations I made on TC1) then Disco should improve ones ability to tame a pet. I must stress this is pure speculation based on observation that in all probability is wrong. IF this were real, then one could assume that Bless would improve your chances at taming a pet.

I left out the Wolf group in terms of the "You anger ..." I know a Dire Wolf gives this and I am very confident that the Timber Wolves will also.

 

[Old Man of UO]

...
It is my suspicion, that there is at least one and maybe more, hidden factors in the formula for taming an pet. One of these variables, in my opinion/speculation, is the combined str+int (yours) vs the mobs ..... hidden factor. IF (and one must keep in mind this is pure speculation based on observations I made on TC1) then Disco should improve ones ability to tame a pet. I must stress this is pure speculation based on observation that in all probability is wrong. IF this were real, then one could assume that Bless would improve your chances at taming a pet...

I've thought this exact same thing for a long time, and still think there are hidden things making it harder/easier to tame a beastie, but am sure these are not affected (or very little effect) by discord. Based on my personal experience taming thousands of cu sidhe, with and without discord, and yes even trying bless spell D) I could see no difference.

Now, the problem with this type of effect is that of a binomial distribution requiring very large samples to see small differences. Meaning a 5% or even 10% difference would be hard to notice. I believe, based on my own experience, that there is no "practical" difference in taming success using discord.

 

[Kazumi the Wild]

It Str + Int were a hidden factor, I don't believe Discord would change things anyway - to my knowledge, Discord affects Skills and Resists, it no longer affects stats.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

I've thought this exact same thing for a long time, and still think there are hidden things making it harder/easier to tame a beastie, but am sure these are not affected (or very little effect) by discord. Based on my personal experience taming thousands of cu sidhe, with and without discord, and yes even trying bless spell D) I could see no difference.

Now, the problem with this type of effect is that of a binomial distribution requiring very large samples to see small differences. Meaning a 5% or even 10% difference would be hard to notice. I believe, based on my own experience, that there is no "practical" difference in taming success using discord.

I wont dispute that at all and agree the ability to elevate it above subjective perception is .... going to be hard. And for the record, I do not have a Disco Tamer. I have ran into people that swear by Bless though .... I am not one of them for what it is worth.

On TC1, I could lower my str and int to see how things worked out vs the Greater Dragons (yes die a lot). A practical reality is the lower the str the easier it is to die

But there seems to be some correlation to successful tames the higher the str is (other than the higher hit points). I lowered the str, int and dex on the TC1 character to see what stats were affected. In the short (meaning I would not say it is anything other than a subjective perception) str gained most, int second and dex a woeful 3rd.

So I tailored my production characters stats accordingly. I also double checked the stat distribution vs the stats given (published as I have never done this) for an advanced character token for a tamer.

 

[Scarab]

Yes on Drakes, Fire steed, Hiryu, Token Reptalons, Frenzied Ostards, Bake Kitsunes, Cu Sidhe's, Fire Beetles, Blue Beetles ...

I left out the Wolf group in terms of the "You anger ..." I know a Dire Wolf gives this and I am very confident that the Timber Wolves will also.

no on drakes, bakes, frenzieds and all wolves (including hell hounds). I just went in-game and checked. when I have time later I'll run down the rest of your list. you really should only post information if you know it is true. posting misinformation is irresponsible

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

no on drakes, frenzieds and all wolves (including hell hounds). I just went in-game and checked. when I have time later I'll run down the rest of your list. you really should only post information if you know it is true. posting misinformation is irresponsible

Oh I totally agree with you and will add that punitive and retaliatory post make posting about things that were CHANGED or honest errors look like gold.

And just to make sure I went to Destard and tamed a Drake and guess what I got the good old you have angered the beast. And that is the last time I will waste 10 minutes of my time on such a petty issue with .... Now, please do have a good day

 

[Scarab]

Oh I totally agree with you and will add that punitive and retaliatory post make posting about things that were CHANGED or honest errors look like gold.

And just to make sure I went to Destard and tamed a Drake and guess what I got the good old you have angered the beast.

changed? I've been playing this game since T2A and you have never gotten anger messages on drakes, frenzieds or wolves. I don't know what game you're playing, but the only way you got an anger message on a drake is if you were actually trying to tame a dragon and got confused

 

[Old Man of UO]

*GROWL* HISS HISS

I was going to go try taming a few drakes to see for myself, but ya know, I want to see who wins the cat fight!

*sits back to enjoy the show*

 

[Wenchkin]

I'd be tempted to sit back and watch too, but as a mod I'd prefer if all claws could be retracted for the remainder of this thread It's that or I get the pressure washer out....

In an attempt to quickly settle this particular disagreement I just tried drakes with two different tamers and several drakes later I didn't get a single anger message.

I don't have the time tonight to try on TC with a lower skilled tamer, but I just tried with 120 and 106 and no angers. I deliberately broke my taming attempts so I could give the drakes a chance to anger...nothing.

Now, I really need to sleep so please be gentle with each other till morning

Wenchy

 

[Old Man of UO]

Wenchy, we loves ya, but do you always have to play the good mod? HEH

Now I wonder what level skill Scarab has...

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Bottom line is the Topic does not ask which ones give the anger message and / or which ones do not, so .....

There are two, two groups ...

There are mobs that walk around and do not mind while you try to tame them and there mobs that want to kill you for trying to tame them.

There are mobs that do not give the Anger message and there are mobs that do give the Anger message.

The distinction of the Anger message is totally not relevant as in nothing more than text candy.

What is relevant is the group that wants to kill you while taming them.

 

[Scarab]

Wenchy, we loves ya, but do you always have to play the good mod? HEH

Now I wonder what level skill Scarab has...

I think I'm around 104ish, but I usually wear jewelry that gets me over 110 (skill cap of 115). it may be entirely possible that people who cannot tame a certain creature at all will get an anger message. perhaps I'll stone my taming later and see if I get anger messages at zero skill

Bottom line is the Topic does not ask which ones give the anger message and / or which ones do not, so .....

There are two, two groups ...

There are mobs that walk around and do not mind while you try to tame them and there mobs that want to kill you for trying to tame them.

There are mobs that do not give the Anger message and there are mobs that do give the Anger message.

The distinction of the Anger message is totally not relevant as in nothing more than text candy.

What is relevant is the group that wants to kill you while taming them.

I don't understand anything you just wrote. there is an important distinction between tames that anger and tames that don't. you don't even get a tame skill check if you get an anger message. that exponentially increases the number of tame attempts (as in times one clicks the skill button or hits their macro) one may go through in order to tame an anger-able beast. if you are trying to somehow equate aggressive mobs with angerable mobs, I believe that is a poor grouping. furthermore since the OP queried regarding the game mechanics behind anger messages, a list of which beasts employ that mechanic is 100% germane to this conversation

also: as an aside, I don't believe I have in any way engaged in flaming tactics or made personal attacks. disagreeing with someone and pointing out where and why they are wrong is not flaming. if I have, sorry

 

[Old Man of UO]

...
also: as an aside, I don't believe I have in any way engaged in flaming tactics or made personal attacks. disagreeing with someone and pointing out where and why they are wrong is not flaming. if I have, sorry

Nope, and I didn't think you were. However, the argument was amusing to me... maybe because of 5 straight days of yard work and too little sleep!

 

[Scarab]

I think I'm around 104ish, but I usually wear jewelry that gets me over 110 (skill cap of 115). it may be entirely possible that people who cannot tame a certain creature at all will get an anger message. perhaps I'll stone my taming later and see if I get anger messages at zero skill

at zero skill, no anger message on drakes. merely you don't have enough skill to attempt to tame that

 

[Tina Small]

I was a bit surprised by the post about no angering message for drakes and had to go test it myself. Took a tamer that has only 88 real taming to Destard's north corner and tried taming some drakes at that skill level. No angering messages. The minimum skill requirement for drakes is 84.3. I suspect that if your skill is below that, you will get the message, "You have no chance of taming this creature" if you try to tame one.

 

[Wenchkin]

Nope, nobody was too out of line, I was just giving a gentle reminder so you stayed that way while I was sleeping

Wenchy

 

[Sarsmi]

And just to make sure I went to Destard and tamed a Drake and guess what I got the good old you have angered the beast.

What shard did you attempt to tame on?

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

What shard did you attempt to tame on?

TC1

 

[Hinotori]

Well I tried to look up the exact date, but the update archive is severly lacking on info about some changes. It was right before or right around the launch of 3rd Dawn that they took the angering off of drakes. Yes, they used to anger. They put angering on to nightmares at the same time. Nightmares didn't have angering when they first came out. I remembering my first run in with a mare the second day after T2A came out. They spawned overland in the Lost Lands then and I was dead and lost for many hours.