Wrestling is Useless

[GreyPawn]

There, I said it. Everyone was thinking it, but I actually said it out loud.
Wrestling is essentially useless.

The only reason to have Wrestling is that it "theoretically" reduces your chances of being interrupted while casting. Yeah? Is that so? At 110 Wrestling, without Protection cast, I am interupted 99% of the time. How about you?

With Inscription at GM and Protection cast, my casting speed is reduced, but I am guaranteed to cast the spell I want to cast. So what is the point of Wrestling? Can anyone tell me? Does it only work "as intended" at 120? If so, is there no point at all in taking it to any number below 120?

 

[Lynk]

There, I said it. Everyone was thinking it, but I actually said it out loud.
Wrestling is essentially useless.

The only reason to have Wrestling is that it "theoretically" reduces your chances of being interrupted while casting. Yeah? Is that so? At 110 Wrestling, without Protection cast, I am interupted 99% of the time. How about you?

With Inscription at GM and Protection cast, my casting speed is reduced, but I am guaranteed to cast the spell I want to cast. So what is the point of Wrestling? Can anyone tell me? Does it only work "as intended" at 120? If so, is there no point at all in taking it to any number below 120?

Are you serious?

Wrestling is factored in (when you have nothing armed or a spellbook) when the calculation is made when your opponent is swinging at you.

So if you have 110 wrestling, and you are fighting my dexer with 45 hci, 120 swords, and 50 HLD - yes you are going to get hit nearly every time.

Protection lowers your resisting spells and your physical resist. It also makes you cast extremely slow.

 

[Sir_Bolo]

The only reason to have Wrestling is that it "theoretically" reduces your chances of being interrupted while casting. Yeah? Is that so?

No.
You got it wrong...
Wrestling will not reduce your chance of being interrupted when you are hit. You will still be interrupted 100% of the times when you take damage.
However, Wrestling does reduce your chance of being hit and taking damage in the first place, same as any other weapon skill. Instead of being hit every time the opponent swings, you will be hit only 50% of the times all things being equal.

Note the fine print: the hit chance is reduced to 50% only if:

- your Wrestling skill is the same as the attacker's weapon skill
- your total DCI (including penalties caused by HLD) is the same as the attacker's HCI

For maximum effectiveness, you will need 120 Wrestling and 45 DCI (or even 65 DCI to counter the effect of HLD).
110 Wrestling is still more or less OK - there is a disadvantage in 120vs110, but it is not so big.
The main factor is DCI: with 0% DCI you stand no chance against an opponent with 45% DCI and using HLD...

 

[Larry]

Wrestling gives you the defense of having a weapon skill plus specials without tactics...

How is that useless?

 

[Hildebrand]

Not useless, just no damage output from it. Are you talking about PvE or PvP?

 

[Mr.Fernandes]

Defense is good - getting hit only half the time as oppose dot all the time not only halves your damage intake, and the frequency of being hit with special effects, it makes it, you know, possible to DO anything since you're not being interupted on every spell.

Now, there are other things that do that too, for sure, but Wrestling cannot be disarmed (whether you have a mage weapon, or a weapon skill, you ahve the same problem: no weapon; no defense).

Now, Anatomy will do THAT too for 40 less points, and to my mind thats a better bargain in a tight build, but if you CAN afford those extra 40 points, then wrestling also has disarm. Disarm (especially in this dexer-rich environment) is NOT useless.

/end thread.

 

[Hildebrand]

But I'm not sure what the OP is using wrestling for: PvP or PvM.
PvP, it's very useful.
PvM, not as much (except I do like stun punching them, hehe).
Do you want offense or defense. Many opt for offense, so they don't go the wrestle route but use a weapon instead.

 

[Chaosy]

Wrestling is awesome...

If you find yourself getting hit too much, it's likely your DCI is not high enough.

 

[Mr.Fernandes]

But I'm not sure what the OP is using wrestling for: PvP or PvM.
PvP, it's very useful.
PvM, not as much (except I do like stun punching them, hehe).
Do you want offense or defense. Many opt for offense, so they don't go the wrestle route but use a weapon instead.

Granted, but that doesn't make it useless, it only means that one of the other options is better for the task youve set yourself.

 

[GFY]

If you think wrestling is useless try doing the lowest level of any champ spawn. Get surrounded by spawn and try to cast with 0 wrestling. After you get rezzed and put 110 wrestling back on your template, try it again. You'll still be interrupted if you try to cast a big spell, but if you cast quick spells you should be fine. Wrestling isn't a cure all for being interrupted, but if you use quick casting spells you shouldn't have too much problem. Casting 4th level spells or greater with something standing next to you trying to hit you is just asking to be interrupted.

Don't for get your wrestling gets much better the closer you get to 120. I found 115 much better then 110 and 120 was much better then 115.

Remember this is your one of your mages biggest defenses! DON'T SKIMP!!

 

[Rowdydude]

I think everyone has the right Idea

I have 120 wrestling and it is well worth it, I use the specials in a defensive mode and i like not having to worry about being disarmed plus spellbooks really help round out a suit

But i will agree with the OP when casting i get Interrupted alot by other spells. I understand getting interrupted by a melee hits but I would be interested in know how it is determine when and if a spell can be interrupted by another spell


Like the OP stated i end up using Protection alot and will usually use it once i get the targets health down just to finish him off

BTW im 120 mage/eval/scribe/resist/wres

 

[Lynk]

I understand getting interrupted by a melee hits but I would be interested in know how it is determine when and if a spell can be interrupted by another spell

It's a very complex mathematical equation.

If YOU = Casting AND Offensive Spell = HITS YOU are both TRUE, then DISRUPT = TRUE

 

[Chaosy]

It's a very complex mathematical equation.

If YOU = Casting AND Offensive Spell = HITS YOU are both TRUE, then DISRUPT = TRUE

This is the making of a prime computer programmer right here.

 

[Arch Magus]

OP is right.

I can't even BEGIN to see the strategic value of Disarming your dexer opponents for 5 seconds....

 

[Mr.Fernandes]

Seriously. :/ Though, to be fair, it DOES mean that you have to find +45% worth of Increased Hit Chance items in order to have a decent shot at using special attacks on them. Bit of a pain in the ass, that, I would think.

 

[red sky]

Does anyone know if wrestling with a shield and no spell book with max DCI is better than wrestling with a spell book with no shield and max DCI? I have tested both and can't really see a difference but it would be nice to know if there is actually a difference between the two. The reason I ask is theoretically a shield would be better but with the parry change which requires 80 dexterity to for parry to work would mean that either will do just fine (spell book or shield by itself.) This mainly concerns the new invasion spell books that have DCI on them and I am considering using one instead of a shield.

 

[Valentina]

To the Original Poster: sorry, but fail. I think someone needs to train up their trolling skills.

Red Sky, to my knowledge it makes no difference. Wrestling is wrestling, no matter what you have in your hands.

I dont think you can carry a spellbook in your off-hand though (the hand that would normally hold a shield). When I try, it does't work. You can have a shield AND a spellbook though, assuming there's no weaon you want in your main hand (and if you have wrestling then you dont need one for defence).

 

[Chaosy]

Red sky: It depends on how badly you need the mods from the spellbook. Spellbooks have better modifiers than shields, but they can be disarmed while shields cannot. You do not need parrying skill to have the modifier benefits on the shield. I prefer carrying shields to spellbooks, and I only use spellbooks when I absolutely need the +skills/sdi/lmc/etc.

 

[Tukaran]

OP is right.

I can't even BEGIN to see the strategic value of Disarming your dexer opponents for 5 seconds....

Uninterrupted explo-FS-EB combo anyone...? []

 

[Lynk]

I only use spellbooks when I absolutely need the +skills/sdi/lmc/etc.

Only book I use is my +30 skill point book for the PvP dread horse tamer mage!