Updated: Help on Stealth AND Template

[Whinemaker]

Hi,

I'm making a dungeon thief right now and can't decide whether to lock her stealth at 100 or bring it all the way to 120.

Does anyone notice any significant difference in terms of success etc between the 2 skill levels?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers

 

[hen]

Re: Help on Stealth

For dungeon stealing 100 is fine.

 

[Taylor]

Re: Help on Stealth

If your suit is medable, then you never fail stealth with 100 hiding and 75 stealth. No reason for an arty thief to raise stealth above 75, unless you are wearing non-medable gear.

 

[Whinemaker]

Re: Help on Stealth

Thanks guys!

So I guess 120 Stealth is more or less just a countermeasure against Detect Hidden and Tracking in Fel then?

 

[Taylor]

Re: Help on Stealth

Aye, that's my understanding. I think higher stealth can also enhance the damage of death strike, but I could be wrong.

 

[Whinemaker]

Re: Help on Stealth

Thanks Syrus!

OK instead of opening a new thread I might as well do it here. I need some help with my template, and since I don't really know what I'm talking about this is going to be confusing as hell. Please bear with me.

This is for a NON-PVP arty thief. Right now what's settled are:

100 (---) Hide
100 (120) Stealing (+20 Shadow Dancer Leggings)
80 (110) Stealth (+20 Shadow Dancer Leggings, +10 Mark of the Travesty)
90 (100) Ninjitsu (+10 Mark of the Travesty)

Note: Ninjitsu at 90 because I think shadow jump is all I really need. I already have the Mark of the Travesty from a previous hunt so I might as well put it on to get the last animal forms for ****s and giggles.

Now these are my so-called options:

a) I was thinking, well, since I already have Ninjitsu on her it might be fun to use it with a weapon skill, plus most of my chars are mages anyway, it might be nice for a change.
So I was kind of thinking about putting

105 (120) Archery (+15 Imbued Ring)
105 (120) Tactics (+15 Imbued Ring)
60 (60) Chivalry

on her with 80 points left to play with, and I might put some of that into Ninjitsu for Death Strike etc.

My biggest concern though, is HP recovery. To begin with I can't really split 80 points into Anatomy and Healing and get results.

Next, Close Wounds. With the Mark of the Travesty, RBC and Stormgrip I do get 26 extra mana, and if I turn my thief into an elf that'd make it 46, but without Meditation or some uber damage output to leech mana with I don't think relying on Close Wounds is a good idea.

Which leads me to my last options: I guess I could use either Cu Sidhe Form, or stack HP regen like crazy (Human + Bracelet of Health + Crim + Mark of Travesty = 18, + Dog Form) to heal, but then of course I'll lose all abilities to cast spells etc when in animal form. i.e. It's pretty meaningless to take up a weapon skill if I can't either use the ninjitsu moves or stay alive.

Some input in this area would be greatly appreciated.

b) My second option is to well, just give up and go with a mage set up.

I have about 350 points (395 points with accessories) to go into Magery, Eval Int and Med, but then my problem is that I'm getting greedy and don't know whether I should sacrifice some Med for Wrestling.

I'm thinking about using this char for Monster Stealables as well so I'm thinking maybe Wrestling can keep me alive a bit longer since you have to stand toe-to-toe to steal, but then at the same time I might be able to just use a few earth eles as decoy and steal away.

Suggestions?

Many thanks in advance.

 

[Quenchant]

Re: Help on Stealth

Just a couple thoughts on your template.

First you might consider being an elf as they have a better chance not to be revealed.

If your going to steal from monsters.....
You might consider consider one of the dexxer skills. You have to be up close and personal to steal and the shadow strike special move is a great defense.

Chivalry can be effective for healing, but will be easier if you have 4/6 casting if you plan on fighting with the char. Just need to keep the karma high.

You might consider dropping chiv and going GM necromancy and the rest in Spirit Speak. (This is if your still intent on killing monsters)
- Curse weapon works pretty well for regaining hit points
- Wraith form for recall, mana leech , immunity to bleed attacks
- Animate dead to give you a couple followers to help you fight
- Vampiric Embrace - for life leech, poison immunity, stamina regen

Another option might be Mysticism / Focus
- Healing stone works well and takes no mana
- Spell trigger for another spell or another healing stone in the cue
- Sleep Makes them loose target and possibly
- The downside is you couldn't recall anywhere except with scrolls.

I only mention these last 2 options since you said you were comfortable playing mages and they only require 2 skills to be effective. Whatever, you decide your suit will have to make up for some of your skill deficiencies.

No matter what it sounds like fun!

Q

 

[Whinemaker]

Interesting suggestions! Thank you Quenchant!

Some feedback/questions from me:

First you might consider being an elf as they have a better chance not to be revealed.

I understand that's the case for PvP, but does the same apply to PvM (I'll probably spending most of my time in Doom, Fan Dancer's Dojo, Yomotsu Mines and those Ilshenar/Tokuno Champ Spawns) as well?
I think I'd rather have the JoaT 20 Med/Focus and Human HP Regen bonus if the elf's Difficult to Track trait doesn't make that much of a difference in the Trammel facets.

You might consider consider one of the dexxer skills. You have to be up close and personal to steal and the shadow strike special move is a great defense.

I think you'll need to have your hands empty to steal, so unless I have Wrestling, in theory I'll probably still get beaten to pulp (which is why I think I'd prefer the JoaT wrestling too).

And without any reliable methods to heal myself with, I think I'd rather be using a bow to limit damage intake (at least I won't be taking melee damage on top of spells/breath etc).

You might consider dropping chiv and going GM necromancy and the rest in Spirit Speak.

This is an interesting suggestion. The only problem is I only have 140 points to split and I think I'd rather go with GM necromancy for Vamp and put the other 40 into Chiv (and try to find ways to boost it to around 60-ish) for EoO and Consecrate Weapon, instead of into Spirit Speak so I won't have to carry a bunch of weapons with me.

But then another problem is, my Fire Resist will go from crap to even crapier in Vamp form because of my suit at the moment (Mark of Travesty, RBC, Stormgrip, Shadow Dancer Leggings and Bracelet of Health).

I don't think I'll be taking this route now, but it's definitely an interesting suggestion. It'll just have to wait until the day I can finally afford some other gears, then maybe I'll try to find ways to work on that.

Another option might be Mysticism / Focus

That sounds fun too! Well, the problem of this being... err, that I still haven't purchased an UOSA upgrade yet

I'll look into it when I do though.

And again, thank you for your suggestions Quenchant!

I still need some help on these 3 questions though:

1) How reliable is Cu Sidhe Form for healing yourself?

2) What about stacking HP regen item?

3) How useful is Wrestling for a mage-thief in a pure PvM stealing situation?

Cheers!

 

[Quenchant]

I still need some help on these 3 questions though:

1) How reliable is Cu Sidhe Form for healing yourself?

2) What about stacking HP regen item?

3) How useful is Wrestling for a mage-thief in a pure PvM stealing situation?

-1-
Cu Sidhe form is kinda slow. It does work, but healing hit points is sporadic (any where from 3 to 24, usually the low numbers) and I believe that the band aid timer is based on dex. You will be revealed when you target your aids, but you can stay hidden for rest of the aids.

I tried this on one of my ninjas with no healing. Ultimately I went back and added anatomy and healing on this char.

You would find that the regeneration rate would be better if you were in Dog form. and just smoke bomb, or shadow strike or run off and hide and regen if you take too much damage.

-2-
I have a char with 26 HP regen (blood wood suit and bracelet of health I'm not sure what the cap is for HPR), he does fine with healing pots for the most part. Every now and then he will run off and chiv heal. If you go this route, you might want to concentrate on DCI on your suit too.

-3-
Your not going to do any real damage with wrestling but your wrestling skill does count for toward your hit chance and your chance not to be hit compared to your attackers (monsters) ability. (This is why you see a lot of mages carrying mage weapon -0 weapons.)

You can see the formula and chart here:

UO Stratics - Combat

If your going the mage route, you might consider the Eval /Anatomy formula too.

(Anatomy + Evaluate Intelligence + 20) / 2 = defensive wrestling (capped at 120.0)

Not sure how many points you would have left after adding anatomy, but you could throw those into healing and use aids to help you get back some hit points.

Hope that helps a bit,
Q

 

[Whinemaker]

Thanks again Quenchant! And sorry I finally have time to sit down in front of the bloody computer and report back.

-1-
Cu Sidhe form is kinda slow. It does work, but healing hit points is sporadic (any where from 3 to 24, usually the low numbers) and I believe that the band aid timer is based on dex. You will be revealed when you target your aids, but you can stay hidden for rest of the aids.

I did some more research on my own and what I read here seems to differ from the above.

It says the Talisman automatically heals you for 20-40 HP periodically (another site says it's every 8 seconds and the counter is separate from the regular healing timer, meaning you can have 2 aids running at the same time, but I can't remember where I read that from) when in Cu Sidhe form, regardless of your dex. Perhaps the reason why you were getting such low numbers and getting revealed was that you were actually applying the bandage yourself manually?

The above site also said that Cu Sidhe form doesn't cure poison or resurrect you.

-3-

......

(This is why you see a lot of mages carrying mage weapon -0 weapons.)

......

If your going the mage route, you might consider the Eval /Anatomy formula too.

......

Not sure how many points you would have left after adding anatomy, but you could throw those into healing and use aids to help you get back some hit points.

Yup, after realising I can't hide immediately after stealing, I took up the mage route for Invisibility.

I might go with Anatomy just because that might save me 20 skill points but I won't have room for healing.
-0 Mage weapons doesn't help at all though, because I need to keep my hands empty (i.e. cannot have a weapon equipped) while stealing.

Thanks again!!

 

[Warrior of Time]

Why would a doom thief want to kill anything? I think points used for fighting is useless.

 

[Black Sun]

It's more for defense, but occasionally it is necessary to fight your way out of a situation. I speak from experience. Sometimes the difference between life and death is running away from the high level mob that revealed you, running around a corner and killing an easier foe so you can hide again and try to stealth away while out of sight from the original mob.

 

[Melissa Rohan]

I've always found fencing skill to be the best with a thief. Just use a quick weapon like a dagger and the special move to hide yourself when you hit an enemy. You dont need tactics just stealth if i remember correctly. Take a few steps, use ninjitsu wolf/bake form or shadowjump then get out of there quick. That'll work against most monsters and reds a lot of the time. If you have a lot of points in your stealing skills just concentrate on evading fights, it'll be a lot better for your health!

Melissa

 

[Taylor]

My thief uses fencing and shadow strike. Excellent special move. You're right that you don't need tactics, but you do need 80 stealth.

UO Stratics - Special Moves