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So I got this silver tincture that I claimed from doom. It says 200% Damage Increase to creatures of doom, vulnerability to undead. Well, I'm in a pickle. Can I apply it to a weapon and fight the guardians as they are undead, or will they kill me quicker? Catch 22 since it's a creature of doom, and undead... smh
I just read someone saying that it lasts an hour. Guess that means I'll farm them up and save them for six months before I sell them.
I just read someone saying that it lasts an hour. Guess that means I'll farm them up and save them for six months before I sell them.
Seriously? It not only defies the traditional silver property, but it only lasts an hour?
It should be 1 arty max.
The turn in rewards should really have been run past players before they were coded, most are useless.
A crook with a slayer that's -20 DI?
Player's Lantern of Light... Why the name redundancy? 'Lantern' implies light... Is it even spell channeling?
Since my luck statue wore off, the drop rate went from almost decent to abysmal
I really doubt the crook is meant as a combat weapon. I would assume the slayer + damage Inc are for flavor. The crook is a good item for any kind of tamer. I also assume Light on the lantern is more of the "Good" meaning, not literal "light".
The scepter is good, the boots are good, the cloak will have uses, the titles are cool. The only reward I don't think will get much use is the ring, as the +20 med ruins it IMO.
Not really sure why you would say most of the rewards are useless tho.
Cove is used by miners, and it's too busy anyway with NPCs and animals anyway. Wind requires 72 magery to enter. But the other towns still present the same problem: blues automatically turning orange screws over any crafters needing those NPCs to bribe BODs. I knew right away what it would mean, and that's having to pay higher prices at fewer NPCs, or sometimes running out of NPCs.
I'll ask you sincerely: do you understand the simple point that I and others have made? It's ridiculous to take cities that were always safe zones for over 17 years, and now make them off-limits because it's too dangerous to get killed — and I'm not just talking about turning orange.
I already presented fixes in the other thread. Did you even see them?
But of course, a non-reply reply to assert your nonsense as fact.
Actually, I have posted various solutions such that both sides would be just fine, and would not require a great deal of programming (certainly no more than automatically turning people orange and tracking that for 8 hours/death). You've just chosen to ignore them.
You actually had the rest of Felucca, which is far larger than the cities. It is very unreasonable to take cities that for over 17 years were safe zones, and now make a rotating area where innocents can get killed.
What if Trammel dungeons were turned into rotating PKing-allowed zones? That would the same principle here. "Oh but you're given a warning and can recall out" is no excuse.
It's a nonsensical suggestion because not all characters will have the skill points, nor should characters be forced to "adapt" after 17 years of what were always safe zones.
Go ahead, let's see you put Taste ID on a PvP character and see what that does. And that's just 100 skill points, not the 200 you're talking about.
You don't even understand what it's all about, do you? Notwithstanding that crafters simply aren't going to make themselves targets in the first place, my crafters carry a lot more than that when they go around. So a crafter should have to be decked out in all 70s suit, plus additional physical resist because of having to cast Protection, and be ready to get out at a moment's notice all because I was bribing BODs in Brit? Rubbish.
I understand your point, but do not understand how a 20 minute fight is something that chaps your ass so much. As long as you get a warning gump, I don't see this as an issue. In 20 minutes, you come back as if nothing had happened...la
Anything and everything that I came across, lol.
I guess I need you to explain what it's all about, please.
Neither of my crafters carry much of anything, I have a house for that "stuff" and I keep my packs clean(learned that during this thing called PvP which you know about). Anything that was of value has been insured such as +60 hammers or crafting talismans(bods are blessed so those just don't count). Funny is that my crafters have been using cursed legendary items I looted years back and I've not manged to lose them while shopping, chopping or mining, how odd as I do that all in Fel except when I look at my luna house. It takes a moment of time to bribe and not much more to re-bribe. Call it what you want but this is simply you seeing a huge negative where there is nothing.
Protection, you really use that as a defence? I wonder which side of a fight you end up on, dead or winner....
I guess we all look through things from our own perspective. The lense I use is that of a role-players and from that perspective its hard see to see how your view makes any sense.
Factions has ended, Felucca is in Chaos, the cities are under siege. These are War zones and you think people should be able to walk around safely without consequence in them? You propose that a player should be able to bribe a merchant during a battle so you can get under the counter prices?
More then likely the merchant should do what anyone else unable to defend themselves in that situation would do- flee or hide.
If you want to bribe someone maybe bride a VvV player to protect you while you conduct business or a guild of VvV players.
Merchants should be disabled during a conflict as well as guards. Maybe even killable so you can raid (or protect) them and their items, etc
You are also wrong about 17 years of safe zone. Factions has had periods of no guard zones for various reasons multiple times. I was always in favor of them being present if the town was under the control of a good faction and not present if under the control of an evil faction. Right now these areas when under siege have no control so to have guards around protecting people in a chaotic conflict doesn't make sense.
-Lore's Player
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i found no actual viable solutions in this thread or the other one that you have suggested so this conversation is over.
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What do you not understand about my crafters, looking for NPCs to bribe, are not looking to fight, and that the warning gump comes too late when a VvV character is red or otherwise has counts to spare? A crafter makes a very attractive target for anything uninsured in the pack, i.e. runics, putting aside that VvVers will kill any possible target anyway. Do you think a crafter should have to wear all 70s and have Protection cast in case there's a need to escape?
In 17 years of UO, only twice were guards turned off in cities such that players could attack each other, and those were short-term story arcs.
Now, in contrast to you and the others, I actually present solutions: the warning gump should have come 30 seconds before, with a default telestorm to the moongate if "Do you want to stay?" was not chosen.
But what am I doing, I'm wasting my words with someone who doesn't even play, bah.
What's the point in me giving you an explanation? You don't carry much around with your crafters, fine. Some of us do, and we should not have had to change our playstyle (whether it's insuring things or entirely avoiding certain towns) because of short-sighted PvP design.
This is because the odds of running into other players outside Felucca towns, apart from dungeons, is very low. But it's now focused in Felucca cities.
No, it takes multiple bribes, then running over to the next NPC, and then to the next shop. Now a super-majority of the NPCs are effectively off-limits, meaning the remaining ones will charge more money or could be bribed out entirely. How many times must I point that out?
This shows how much you know about gameplay. Protection means, you know, a crafter won't get interrupted with poison or a barrage of fireballs when trying to recall out.
Not everyone roleplays, so your perspective should not apply to everyone.
I don't know if you're being serious or exemplifying Poe's Law. Nobody is going to bother with that.
<facepalm>
Actually, I am completely correct. It's you who's wrong: faction cities still had guards in effect, though naturally not in the zones (where it didn't matter anyway). But twice in 17 years have guards been turned off such that players could fight each other, not including monster invasions like Trinsic 2000, the repond invasion in later 2000, and the Britain invasion.
There we go, another non-reply reply from you. Are you taking your marbles home now?
I have presented multiple solutions, which you've chosen to ignore, and multiple points debunking your notions, which you've also chosen to ignore. My solutions would not require much programming, at least not by those who understand the code, and they could keep everybody happy.
Blues could have been prevented from coming near altars (just like with faction strongholds), or severely damaged by braziers. In fact, braziers could have an area on blues effect as they light up. Of course, blues would be unable to cast any field or area effect spells. This would have allowed blues to stay in the city and watch the fighting.
I could have been satisfied with the new teleport gump coming up 30 seconds before hand, with a default "Yes I'd like to get out of here" if there's no response at 25 seconds. While this slightly telegraphs to non-VvV blues where the next battle will be, anyone in VvV could have a second client with a blue to get this information. The VvV zone announcement could even be changed to say that the battle will start in ____ "shortly," with the gump already appearing only when the town became an actual zone.
We were told to be constructive. I have. You have not, preferring to be 100% naysaying.
I may regret involving myself in this thread, but wth... I have all the crafters and I have to go to town daily to restock whatever, so I can speak from that perspective.
I don't see VvV in a town as being any sort of game killer for crafters/mules/bod collectors, etc., since it only lasts for 20mins... Can't you find something else to do for 20 mins? Good grief man!
I do, however, agree with some of what you're saying. Having a certain "area" within town to do VvV would be fine I think. And non VvV could watch and maybe even like it and decide to join in... who knows...
I don't see VvV in a town as being any sort of game killer for crafters/mules/bod collectors, etc., since it only lasts for 20mins... Can't you find something else to do for 20 mins? Good grief man!
I do, however, agree with some of what you're saying. Having a certain "area" within town to do VvV would be fine I think. And non VvV could watch and maybe even like it and decide to join in... who knows...
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@kryonix
Every time I go to the Stygian dungeon I die! Can we please have a noob safe easy button where if I suck and die too often it will make me invulnerable for 15 minutes to 30 minutes to where I can safely find my way out? Please!
Oh and yea..every time I travel through this pink gate it says I am about enter a combat zone and do I wish to continue I say yes, but what I really mean is yes I want to go there, but I don't want to fight people, lose my stuff, or die.. And insurance isn't a viable solution. Can we just make it so I'm invincible and have Demi God skills so I can kill the pvpers..please
Btw..I'm just role playing an *******, it's my game play style. I pay for my subscriptions too..don't make me adapt to society
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Every time I go to the Stygian dungeon I die! Can we please have a noob safe easy button where if I suck and die too often it will make me invulnerable for 15 minutes to 30 minutes to where I can safely find my way out? Please!
Oh and yea..every time I travel through this pink gate it says I am about enter a combat zone and do I wish to continue I say yes, but what I really mean is yes I want to go there, but I don't want to fight people, lose my stuff, or die.. And insurance isn't a viable solution. Can we just make it so I'm invincible and have Demi God skills so I can kill the pvpers..please
Btw..I'm just role playing an *******, it's my game play style. I pay for my subscriptions too..don't make me adapt to society
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Your points are valid and I've decided that we should change the game to suit your gamestyle only.
The problem is, is while it would be fine if they could watch, some would inevitably abuse the system by healing, blessing, curing, cursing, stam blocking, ward removing and anything of the like. I believe the intention was to remove the ability of someone affecting a pvp fight without fear repercussions.
I have to tell you that from a pvp standpoint it's been fun. It keeps the action constant with changing venues. For the PvPer its been difficult to get good fights that are clean without in some way being affected or interfered with by non pvp characters affecting the outcome by healing/buffing their guild in a guard zone for example without fear of being attacked. It's kind of like how a group of reds and blues would raid a group of blues in Despise, with the blues overtaking the island without being hit by the blue defenders fields and assisting/supporting the reds in the attack.
I also do trade orders in fel too. The system has not burned me yet. I've always been able to keep myself safe. I am not a bod collector, nor do I often bring my crafter to any town simply because I have no reason to, but if I were/did, the amount of time seems negligible to me to where it would be anything more of an inconvenience of leaving and coming back 20 minutes later.
There are 1440 minutes in a day. Lets go ahead and consider the battle to be 25 minutes to include the 5 minute cool down period and account for after battle fighting. Yes I know it's 20 actual minutes but whatever. Often this 5 minutes will work to the advantage of someone trying to use the town without fear of being killed.
There are 57.6 twenty-five minute battles per day. You divide that by eight potential towns (correct if I am wrong on that number) that VvV occurs in.
Any of these towns will have an average of 7.2 battles per day... 25 minutes long each.
You multiply 25 minutes time 7.2 battles and get 180 minutes per day where each town will be occupied.... on average. This is 3 hours for each of the eight towns per day.
Lets say the average UO player plays oh, lets see... six hours per day!
This would mean that out of six hours, one would have to worry about the town they were currently present at, crafting, doing business, doing bods, talking to their friend, walking the dog etc. for 45 minutes of that six hours. If you play three hours per day. Thats 22.5 minutes of inconvenience.
I have no idea how long it takes to "bribe" npc shopkeepers for bods. But I will... just for kicks, assume it takes 10 minutes for one character to complete one round per town. I could be wrong on the amount of time for this as I do not do it, but this is for discussion sake here so feel free to correct me if my estimate is wrong. In any case, my suggestion would be to leave to a different town and collect bods there, then move your rounds through other towns and then return to the town that was recently besieged and collect the bods there.
While it is an inconvenience that a town becomes besieged while you are in it, there is also an assurance that every other town will be open and safe for the duration of that particular battle.
Now if this is a case where someone who has many many bod accounts dedicated to getting bods, your chances of getting burned is higher...BUT, since we can only control one character at a time, there is only so much time that one person can continuously do bods for hours on end.
Regardless of how long a player spends doing bods, crafting, sightseeing, banking, the fact remains that the chances of a town becoming besieged while a person is in it at any given time using the math that a battle lasts 25 minutes long is...
12.5%
The percentage would actually be less if we excluded the five minute cool down. It would be 144 minutes per day for each town on average with this factored in. This would put us at chance of the town becoming besieged at any given time at...
10%
Thank you.
I have to tell you that from a pvp standpoint it's been fun. It keeps the action constant with changing venues. For the PvPer its been difficult to get good fights that are clean without in some way being affected or interfered with by non pvp characters affecting the outcome by healing/buffing their guild in a guard zone for example without fear of being attacked. It's kind of like how a group of reds and blues would raid a group of blues in Despise, with the blues overtaking the island without being hit by the blue defenders fields and assisting/supporting the reds in the attack.
I also do trade orders in fel too. The system has not burned me yet. I've always been able to keep myself safe. I am not a bod collector, nor do I often bring my crafter to any town simply because I have no reason to, but if I were/did, the amount of time seems negligible to me to where it would be anything more of an inconvenience of leaving and coming back 20 minutes later.
There are 1440 minutes in a day. Lets go ahead and consider the battle to be 25 minutes to include the 5 minute cool down period and account for after battle fighting. Yes I know it's 20 actual minutes but whatever. Often this 5 minutes will work to the advantage of someone trying to use the town without fear of being killed.
There are 57.6 twenty-five minute battles per day. You divide that by eight potential towns (correct if I am wrong on that number) that VvV occurs in.
Any of these towns will have an average of 7.2 battles per day... 25 minutes long each.
You multiply 25 minutes time 7.2 battles and get 180 minutes per day where each town will be occupied.... on average. This is 3 hours for each of the eight towns per day.
Lets say the average UO player plays oh, lets see... six hours per day!
This would mean that out of six hours, one would have to worry about the town they were currently present at, crafting, doing business, doing bods, talking to their friend, walking the dog etc. for 45 minutes of that six hours. If you play three hours per day. Thats 22.5 minutes of inconvenience.
I have no idea how long it takes to "bribe" npc shopkeepers for bods. But I will... just for kicks, assume it takes 10 minutes for one character to complete one round per town. I could be wrong on the amount of time for this as I do not do it, but this is for discussion sake here so feel free to correct me if my estimate is wrong. In any case, my suggestion would be to leave to a different town and collect bods there, then move your rounds through other towns and then return to the town that was recently besieged and collect the bods there.
While it is an inconvenience that a town becomes besieged while you are in it, there is also an assurance that every other town will be open and safe for the duration of that particular battle.
Now if this is a case where someone who has many many bod accounts dedicated to getting bods, your chances of getting burned is higher...BUT, since we can only control one character at a time, there is only so much time that one person can continuously do bods for hours on end.
Regardless of how long a player spends doing bods, crafting, sightseeing, banking, the fact remains that the chances of a town becoming besieged while a person is in it at any given time using the math that a battle lasts 25 minutes long is...
12.5%
The percentage would actually be less if we excluded the five minute cool down. It would be 144 minutes per day for each town on average with this factored in. This would put us at chance of the town becoming besieged at any given time at...
10%
Thank you.
EXCELLENT POST ZUCKUSS!
the system is fine fundamentally. its an small inconvenience that can be adapted to easily. the notion of a guard zone during a battle is insane. a blue just walking into a reds much needed fields to detect stealthers is enough of a reason for no gaurd zones.
lets get the system balanced and flowing smoothly before nit-picking slight inconveniences.
the system is fine fundamentally. its an small inconvenience that can be adapted to easily. the notion of a guard zone during a battle is insane. a blue just walking into a reds much needed fields to detect stealthers is enough of a reason for no gaurd zones.
lets get the system balanced and flowing smoothly before nit-picking slight inconveniences.
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What shard are you playing, I'll gladly hold your hand during the scary invasions. I'll even waive the fee.
Lore's Player
It's not a matter of "something else to do for 20 minutes." Why should it be necessary when I'm crafting to have another client going to see what city was just a VvV battleground, then figure I can go to that one? What about those who don't have any VvV characters?
And now city fights are expiring after 4 minutes, if you didn't notice. It's simply not worth risking bringing one of my crafters to the battleground Felucca towns where red VvVers could pop into the bank, or come on through, and see the easy kill with potentially good loot. Even something simple like blues being unattackable for those first 30 seconds would have worked.
There was no reason for these design deficiencies, and no reason they can't be rectified so everybody's happy.
Of course, I never demanded or insinuated anything of the kind, and in fact, in stark contrast to you, I've been the one pointing out how everyone can get what he wants.
We were told be constructive. I have been. Quit your trolling.
@Zuckuss
When you said:
What I meant was this.
If the VvV battle "zone" didn't include the entire city limits, then people could safely watch some VvV or PvP (however you see it) take place right next to them, without having to run or hide... If the dev's want people to become involved in VvV or PvP, then give them a way to observe it in real time without having to hide or die (assuming they're crafters or whatever and don't fight)..
It's like "consensual PvP" in that sense. The way it is now, and has been forever, is that if you are in an "area" where fighting is taking place - then you are in an area where a PvP'r can kill you.
The devs have the ability to change the area of VvV - where guards are gone and chaos rules and the best man/woman wins. So make it a smaller area and let current non PvP types observe and maybe, just maybe, some of the fear of it will subside and you will recruit some new VvV people that way...
Having a designated "area" of a town for VvV would do that, wouldn't it?
No doubt I'm forgetting something important to the issue, but that's how I'd envision it if I were a dev.
Thx for reading ...................
When you said:
I assume you were referring to my post here:
I did not mean to suggest that they (non VvV'rs in town during a VvV battle) should be able to do ANYTHING at all - for or to - VvV participants. If they did, then they have just declared themselves to be part of the fight and can certainly suffer the consequences of that decision...
What I meant was this.
If the VvV battle "zone" didn't include the entire city limits, then people could safely watch some VvV or PvP (however you see it) take place right next to them, without having to run or hide... If the dev's want people to become involved in VvV or PvP, then give them a way to observe it in real time without having to hide or die (assuming they're crafters or whatever and don't fight)..
It's like "consensual PvP" in that sense. The way it is now, and has been forever, is that if you are in an "area" where fighting is taking place - then you are in an area where a PvP'r can kill you.
The devs have the ability to change the area of VvV - where guards are gone and chaos rules and the best man/woman wins. So make it a smaller area and let current non PvP types observe and maybe, just maybe, some of the fear of it will subside and you will recruit some new VvV people that way...
Having a designated "area" of a town for VvV would do that, wouldn't it?
No doubt I'm forgetting something important to the issue, but that's how I'd envision it if I were a dev.
Thx for reading ...................
And if they do any of the actions you mention, they turn orange, remember?
Trade orders are different. A character is geared up for the likelihood of combat, whereas mine haven't done trade requests yet since I need to determine which has the best fighting chance. (pun intended).
And this would require shard-wide VvV notices, which we don't have and which I have suggested. There's no reason someone should have to have a second client with a VvV character, or get informed by friends, when it's safe.
It can take several minutes, yes. But then you're getting into problems from your assumptions:
And just how is someone supposed to know without a character in VvV, until that gump appears about wanting to get transported to a moongate?
I have "only" ten of each BOD to collect once a day, not all of which I bribe every day.
I really wish people would know what they're talking about. A battle actually lasts a maximum of 20 minutes, not 25. But your final math happens to be correct, and you made it unnecessary complex, do you realize? Divide 20 minutes into 25 for the probability any of the VvV towns will be active, then divide by 8 for the probability a given VvV town will be active. You don't have to calculate the number of minutes in the day. Take this as just a hint next time you try to run statistics.
And a 10% chance of any of my crafters is far too high than what it should be, namely 0%. Did you ever hear the comedy routine, I think perhaps by Dennis Leary, talking about how many insect parts and rat droppings are "acceptable" in food? He said, "None! No amount is acceptable!"
How would players receive a 10% chance that one of several major non-Felucca dungeons would suddenly be opened to indiscriminate PvP, after 14 years of the assurance they couldn't be directly attacked?
Gee, and I'm considered a troll? Do you have anything constructive to add, as I've been doing, or are you just going to blather nonsense?
Entire towns could still be VvV zones. As I've suggested before, the altars could be kept as they are, with a radius keeping blues out, or altars dispensing severe damage to blues. Blues, of course, would be prohibited from casting field/area effect spells (to keep it simple it would be all Felucca towns). And there are already plenty of places with boundaries, from the old faction strongholds to the British and Blackthorn castles, and it happens even with simple housing access, so keeping people out based on status is nothing new.The devs have the ability to change the area of VvV - where guards are gone and chaos rules and the best man/woman wins. So make it a smaller area and let current non PvP types observe and maybe, just maybe, some of the fear of it will subside and you will recruit some new VvV people that way...
Having a designated "area" of a town for VvV would do that, wouldn't it?
No doubt I'm forgetting something important to the issue, but that's how I'd envision it if I were a dev.
Thx for reading ...................
It just takes a little thinking, a little creativity, and a desire for the Devs to do a little work so we finally have some Pareto improvement.
"Slight" is hardly the case of losing two tailoring shops and a lot of blacksmith NPCs in Britain, the same with Jhelom, and many other NPCs in six other towns. It's simply ridiculous to suggest that my purely non-fighting crafters should have to get hiding and stealth.
Did you work Arms Lore on any of your PvP characters yet, hmm? And I'm only talking about 100 points, not the 200 you demand.
Zog, I think this horse is pretty much dead by now... Imo you've made some good points regarding how they (devs) could do a bit of tweaking to VvV. But I think you'd be hard pressed to find many who agree with your major point, given the short time period that a city is "occupied"...
I think the only ones really "hurt" by the town "occupations" are the scripters who can't do their bod runs or whatever via scripts (that can't account for the new war zones)...
If you're calling me a scripter, you are quite mistaken. And if you think this impacts only me, you are more than erroneous.Zog, I think this horse is pretty much dead by now... Imo you've made some good points regarding how they (devs) could do a bit of tweaking to VvV. But I think you'd be hard pressed to find many who agree with your major point, given the short time period that a city is "occupied"...
I think the only ones really "hurt" by the town "occupations" are the scripters who can't do their bod runs or whatever via scripts (that can't account for the new war zones)...
It isn't a matter of which city at a given time is active, but not knowing which is (hence my suggestion of shard-wide announcements which would certainly help). Would you want to walk down one of eight streets knowing that at any given time, you could suddenly be attacked?
It would help just to have the teleport gump come up 30 seconds before the town goes active, or that it does like now once the town goes active, but the guard zone isn't turned off (and altars don't appear) until 30 seconds in. That timing should not be difficult to adjust. Minutes of work, for anyone competent, and of great benefit to bribers.
Zog,
I would ask you to go back an read the whole thing again, not just the parts you wanted to take in. Also I would like to point out that my post wasn't directed at anyone in particular.
Stam blocking does not flag anyone nor does ward removal. It also comes down to something as simple as running in supplies. There are many ways to affect a fight without negative/beneficial actions. A venue where this could occur is necessary for clean pvp.
About trade orders? So what that I come geared for combat. Adaptability my friend.
Shard wide notices? That is actually a good idea and probably something they are working on.
Know what I'm talking about? The 25 minute reasoning was explained above in my post. I figured I would account of the after battle fighting and honestly to bump the numbers in favor for what seems to be your argument here. As stated above, I am well aware that is actually 20 minutes, as shown in the final result.
My overcomplexity? I figured it necessary to note the excess numbers for informations sake. Breaking it down from the day, to the hour to the minute(s) and then to the percentage.
Safety? I don't recall anyone ever guaranteeing or assuring that towns would be safe on a permanent basis. The comparison of town pvp for 144 minutes in each town each day to your quote about eating rat droppings is not even remotely close on the level of severity. It would consider it closer to brushing off a gnat.
And to your final statement; this is Felucca, the only non-consensual PvP facet. Of course it would be a bit more shocking if they opened up a Trammel Dungeon to pvp. I don't see how you could compare the two.
Question,
What did you do when they had the town invasions back in the day? How did you handle the EM events and occasional monster spawns in town over the years?
Is it really worth all the grief, time , effort and subtle insults?
Your opinion certainly has been heard, as well as others. That's how a discussion works. Occasionally, logic will sway some. In fact I agree with your idea on shard wide notices.
Picking apart people's reasoning, focusing on certain parts of someone's opinion and selectively leaving out other parts, rehashing your opinion repeatedly and beating it into the ground doesn't help with the progress of this or any discussion.
This particular thread which is meant to serve all topics related to Publish 87 has been taken over by the singular topic of VvV towns. As I said in the last thread, lets keep this on a constructive level and leave any personal attacks out of this.
I would ask you to go back an read the whole thing again, not just the parts you wanted to take in. Also I would like to point out that my post wasn't directed at anyone in particular.
Stam blocking does not flag anyone nor does ward removal. It also comes down to something as simple as running in supplies. There are many ways to affect a fight without negative/beneficial actions. A venue where this could occur is necessary for clean pvp.
About trade orders? So what that I come geared for combat. Adaptability my friend.
Shard wide notices? That is actually a good idea and probably something they are working on.
Know what I'm talking about? The 25 minute reasoning was explained above in my post. I figured I would account of the after battle fighting and honestly to bump the numbers in favor for what seems to be your argument here. As stated above, I am well aware that is actually 20 minutes, as shown in the final result.
My overcomplexity? I figured it necessary to note the excess numbers for informations sake. Breaking it down from the day, to the hour to the minute(s) and then to the percentage.
Safety? I don't recall anyone ever guaranteeing or assuring that towns would be safe on a permanent basis. The comparison of town pvp for 144 minutes in each town each day to your quote about eating rat droppings is not even remotely close on the level of severity. It would consider it closer to brushing off a gnat.
And to your final statement; this is Felucca, the only non-consensual PvP facet. Of course it would be a bit more shocking if they opened up a Trammel Dungeon to pvp. I don't see how you could compare the two.
Question,
What did you do when they had the town invasions back in the day? How did you handle the EM events and occasional monster spawns in town over the years?
Is it really worth all the grief, time , effort and subtle insults?
Your opinion certainly has been heard, as well as others. That's how a discussion works. Occasionally, logic will sway some. In fact I agree with your idea on shard wide notices.
Picking apart people's reasoning, focusing on certain parts of someone's opinion and selectively leaving out other parts, rehashing your opinion repeatedly and beating it into the ground doesn't help with the progress of this or any discussion.
This particular thread which is meant to serve all topics related to Publish 87 has been taken over by the singular topic of VvV towns. As I said in the last thread, lets keep this on a constructive level and leave any personal attacks out of this.
I did read the whole thing, and I replied to only what I felt was relevant.
The main action will be around altars, and stam blocking elsewhere will affect both sides anyway. Yet if you want to keep blues completely out, or turn any who stay into oranges, I've already laid out how it could be done.
And as I said, trade orders are with the expectation of combat. Why should a non-fighting crafter character have to throw on armor and be prepared to recall out, when that city had previously been a safe zone for 17 years?
Still unnecessary. When I wanted to run some numbers for something in the game, I thought of doing 1000-hit simulations. Then I realized, why bother? If you're dealing with pure probability like here, just extrapolate.
Do you not understand that it is not a town's total time every day, but the uncertainty that any given town could be active at any town? Even Russian Roulette with million-to-one odds is not something I'd like to play. I'm just not going to risk my crafters when reds could come through and see an easy attack. I'm not about to gear up a character to withstand attacks so I can bribe some BODs.
It is a completely apt comparison because Felucca never had "non-consensual PvP" everywhere. Its towns were still safe havens even after the facet split 14 years ago, hence why "Felucca=PvP" was never true.
Do you see, then, why it's the same if eight major Trammel dungeons were opened up, with rotating times, to open player attacks? Even if there were gumps to get players out, most would say, "Geez, these places were always safe before, why muck it up?" Do you see that things like "You don't have to go there," "It's only 10% of the time" and "You can find out which one is active" wouldn't wash?
People simply didn't go to the towns, but those events were limited in city (e.g. Trinsic only and Brit only) and/or temporary storylines. But remember that guard zones were turned off only for Trinsic 2000 and then the city invasions last year, and again those were not meant to be long-term circumstances.
Subtle insults? I'm not saying you're doing any of these, but I'm not the one making snarky comments, direct insults about offering to hold my hand, or making unconstructive non-reply replies.
If I'm going to be dealing with those that automatically gainsay my posts (oftentimes because I've picked their posts or their friends' posts) apart in the past, who give me replies of zero substance while they can't even reply to my specific points, then I will most assuredly continue to fisk their every last word. Count on it.
Show me where I've made a personal attack and not been constructive. I have been the one offering solution after solution so everyone can be happy.
I apologize for the snarkiness of my reply but the offer is genuine. If you are on Origin and need someone to protect you during the sieges and we have a player available, we'll assign them to you so you can be safe while you conduct your business...
I understand it doesn't fix your issues with the VvV system, its simply an offer which addresses your current problem of being open to attack and potentially killed while in a VvV town.
-Lore's Player
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I think the important thing to consider is that players don't all play the game the same way that you do, and if they're not enjoying part of the game it might be because of that, not that they're doing it wrong or overly sensitive. Or that they should just be interrupted and it doesn't matter. It's not "Ultima *wait 20 mins* Online"
TBH I've never met a gamer who liked being interrupted, especially not a PvPer. I think if you were to walk into a VvV battle and say "hold up guys, you'll have to stop and move somewhere else for 20 mins!" it wouldn't go down very well! But it's apparently ok to disrupt players who aren't fighters because there seems to be some presumption that they're not doing anything important, and can just hop off for 20 mins somewhere else. All because the PvPers are scared someone might interfere.Truth is, the PvPers sound more scared of the non-PvPers than we are of them. Let's also remember that teensy issue of the 8 hour flag. I'm still waiting for someone to convince me that when a fight can barely last 20 mins, I should still be flagged for more than 7 hours later when everyone is probably logged off hehe. Simply for being in a city too long!
Wenchy
Your exactly right... I don't have a whole heck of a lot of time to play.. the last thing I want to do is stand about waiting.. I've got things to do. Hence my not wanting to wait the 3 min or whatever for my stupid trash barrel to empty. I can recall myself to some bank and throw it in a public box and it's gone in 2 seconds not 3 min... trouble is when I'm busy sorting and crap I hate having to constantly stop what I'm doing to go take the trash out and then try to remember where I stopped...I think the important thing to consider is that players don't all play the game the same way that you do, and if they're not enjoying part of the game it might be because of that, not that they're doing it wrong or overly sensitive. Or that they should just be interrupted and it doesn't matter. It's not "Ultima *wait 20 mins* Online"
Let's also remember that teensy issue of the 8 hour flag. I'm still waiting for someone to convince me that when a fight can barely last 20 mins, I should still be flagged for more than 7 hours later when everyone is probably logged off hehe. Simply for being in a city too long!
Wenchy
I don't want to be working on things in the towns and have to stop and leave just for the stupid VvV that I want nothing to do with ... then go somewhere else for 20 or 30 min and return... stupid.
Also if you aren't in VvV and not IN town when it happens you have no way to know if it's over yet... going back to check will flag you.... super stupid. What do I need a freaking timer now to set on when it's safe to go back to X town?
At any rate I'm glad some folk are enjoying the thing... I hope they keep working to improve it and it doesn't end up like so many other things where its dumped into the game and then never touched again and never works right from the start. I'm hoping they will continue to work on it and improve it all the time.
I used to fight in factions when we didn't have these evacuations, we managed fine. Yes, we had the odd blue, we also had reds outside of town jump fights too. And our faction had maybe 30 players if we were all online vs over 100 in the others. So we got spanked good and proper all the time, and yet it was still more fun than today's PvP will ever be. Outside town you were used to fighting "whoever turned up" and a 1v1 going to 10 v 1. It was part of the parcel that is Fel. If we're going to say that Fel is this dangerous place with non-consent PvP, then they protective evacuation bubble around VvV has no place there either. It's kicking out the weaker players so it can over-protect the PvPers who shouldn't need protecting if they're any good. VvV now is more sanitised than the battles I had in guild wars between RP guilds.
I keep hearing how it's like wussy crafters and non-VvVers are wanting some big protective bubble where it doesn't belong in this non-consentual facet. But that is not the case at all, we are simply asking for the same security we've had for years in the cities. It's hardly like it hurts a PvPer to share city facilities with other players.... ones who may be future recruits for their guild. It was valuable that both groups could co-exist before, crafting for each other, rezzing pets. Making potions in town with the anxious PvPer coming to get part of their order while they fought.
Everywhere else in Fel is still just as risky. I can't collect resources in Fel without being fully open to attack in whatever form it takes. I can't PvM without the same risk. Nor would I ever complain about those things, they are what I signed up for when I entered Fel and I enjoy the unpredictability vs the dull tedium doing those things in Tram. I ran a RP village for years right out in the sticks of Fel and we never complained about what landed there. We adapted to and coped with it until I ran out of time to keep the place going. So some of us could write lectures about the risks in Fel we've taken. But those risks made sense, you were out of town where it should be more hostile. Now the city is the danger zone and dungeons are far safer.
In truth it's the VvV players who are asking for too much protection, they who want evacuation and an 8 hour flag for bystanders who don't leave quick enough. And they want to paint us as the unwanted and weak who don't belong. Sorry, but this silly protective VvV bubble is the bit that doesn't belong. It's the PvPers who are scared. I just don't want a dumb orange flag on a character who poses no threat to anyone and isn't designed for PvP. I'm betting the VvV players keep their crafters safe in the same way, but don't call themselves chicken it's just common sense. Those players who want such a cheap easy kill should be flagging and taking counts for it. Period. Especially considering the times my RPers took counts killing interfering PvPers. Even my chef has run players out of town.
Honestly, available time isn't really a great argument because some of us are limited to at most an hour a day we can justify gaming. Everyone is different. Even the 6-hour-a-day players are still screwed if they get an 8 hour flag.
However little or much someone is affected, this system is still clumsy, indiscriminate and I don't think it belongs in Fel. It's not how long the game time is disrupted. I don't think any developer should be giving the message that non-VvV activities should be moved out of town in favour of a quick fight. Devs should really be trying to get us to co-exist together, not encourage them to be sworn enemies fighting over a bank box. Fel could and should be so much more than somewhere you go for a fight, it's grossly underused through want of imagination and understanding.
Now if there was a fixed cycle of rotation between the cities and all players were fully informed of what was happening, that would be more useful. But I'm sorry, I reject this whole flagging and booting out business. My non-PvPers accept more risk trotting back out of the city than VvV PvPers are willing to take fighting inside of it.
Wenchy
It seems that Zog is the only one who has a major issue with this system so, sadly, the majority rules and Mr. Zog you are out of luck. I only wish I could troll this today but sadly I'll be to busy to log in from the office, so sad.
Serps Hold, New Magencia, Vesper, Papau, and Delucia all come to mind
- Status