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NEWS [UO.Com] Publish 86 to TC1

GalenKnighthawke

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Apologies for not having read all of the prior posts in this thread.

Also apologies for not doing my usual trick and focusing on the positive things while I let others worry about the negatives. The positive things I think are pretty obvious. There's certain things that I think might be negative that I fret few on Stratics will think to say, but the regular players of the game (the ones who don't post here) might agree more with me than will the self-selected group here.

Anyway....These are just random. And just a few of them.

1 - It looks like the Trade Quest rewards are lopsided towards the evil side, at least in terms of the personal rewards. Am I misreading this? If not, some may consider this appropriate but I'm not one of them. Ultima's never been dark fantasy in the same way that, say, A Song of Ice and Fire is. It's appropriate for there to be evil rewards, I suppose, but not for the particularly notable person-centric rewards exclusively to reside with doing the wrong thing. There should be some notable, individually-useable rewards for the good side too. Remember that this is ongoing content. Not, say, an EM event wherein one shouldn't expect a reward every time. Wouldn't it be awesome if a good guy character could make a living (maybe even a good one!) from doing the trader quests, and be rewarded appropriately? Isn't "caravan guard" or "transporter of goods" a perfectly valid profession in a fantasy environment?

2 - It's unclear to me if Virtue/Vice is going to be Felucca-only. That was the implication and I support it being done that way. The idea is to replace Factions, and Factions is about controlling the Felucca map. By contrast the Trammel map is King Blackthorn's and, to a lesser degree and in a different way, the Governors'. Some would say that the fighting, at least, should be continued into Trammel like the old Order/Chaos, but I am not one of them. I think both sides benefit from having a place to cooperate and rest. If they want constant war there's an easy answer: the guild/alliance war system.

3 - Please change the name and fictional concept behind Virtue/Vice. It shouldn't be between camps with stark moral lines. I think it's more fun, and logical (I'll explain shortly), from an RP perspective if it's something like 2 old noble houses, neither good nor evil just at odds with one another. It's more fun because it gives us something sorta Game of Thrones-ish to play, where there's good and evil on both sides. (We already have Absolute Good and Absolute Evil in many aspects of the game. I'm just saying we don't need it in ALL of them.) And it's more logical because t's not out of the question that people in each camp will end cooperating on the Trammel side at, say, EM events, or global events, or RP stuff or random hunting. And if the differences they fought over in Fel weren't good/evil but, rather, just something like competing claims, it'd make more sense from an RP perspective if they could put that side when they weren't in Felucca. There's got to be one or two royal houses in the UO lore someplace, one that comes to mind is Baron whatever who has a cloak as one of the Community Collections rewards. He's been in the lore a few times and surely his family might think it has a claim. There's probably another one too. Hell make it some kind of unusual, civilized, non-evil orc king. (By making him different than his fellow orcs you don't necessarily run the risk of ret-conning the evil nature of orcs in general.) (But just please look to the lore before you just make something up, if you go this route.)

4 - I take it that the 1,000 Luck bonus for hunting in Fel is over and on top of whatever bonus there is already? I would urge you to remember that Fel is a niche market by definition, and that attempts to mainstream it over the years have failed, and for good reasons. Most of us don't want to PvP. There's already power scrolls, unique content, unique artifacts, double Fame, double resources, and most people still don't want to go there. I appreciate that you on the dev team don't get this, but it's still a fact that, I argue, you should deal with in order to continue the viability of this product called UO.

5 - Please, please, please, as others have asked, make the Trader's Quest town rewards go to the town you're coming FROM, rather than the town you're going TO. The logic behind the way you have it now is not clear to me.

That's all for now.

-Galen's player
 

Goodmann

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I insured a prized weapon and it cost me roughly 4k for that one weapon. I think this is the general right direction for having "better" items/armor making there insurance much higher. A full prized suit would cost you 40-50k per death..... I like it
 

GalenKnighthawke

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Two additional items

6 - I again would urge you to reassess monster strength in the older locations (the non-revamped dungeons, overland in Trammel, etc.), and to attempt to re-scale monster strength and loot. If you toss this system out there without reassessing monster strength, it potentially becomes too easy to get gear that's too-elite too-quickly. On the other hand if you scale loot to monster strength successfully, but don't reassess monster strength in the older locations, then there remains little reason to go to the older locations to hunt.

7 - I think a potential new emphasis on overland travel, enabled by the Trader's Quests, is a grand opportunity to have raider camps spawn at a greater number of fixed locations or, even, at random locations.

-Galen's player
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Patron
The new loot on overland is not that powerful. I would be careful with reassess monster strength as a lot who will use the overland will be crafters with some fighting skills and young chars. The ones who want better loot will still go to the dungeons. I would like to see the good old brigand and gypsy spawn back and the chests for young lock pickers.
 

GalenKnighthawke

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The new loot on overland is not that powerful. I would be careful with reassess monster strength as a lot who will use the overland will be crafters with some fighting skills and young chars. The ones who want better loot will still go to the dungeons. I would like to see the good old brigand and gypsy spawn back and the chests for young lock pickers.
*sighs and shakes head*

Don't worry, I'm not trying to do the kinds of things your signature depicts and glorifies: Lure sheep to wolves. (Indeed I more-often am insulted on these boards for doing something closer to the polar opposite of that.)

My statements should be read in light of a previous, and public, exchange I've had with K., wherein I made it plain I primarily was referring to loot, and spawn, within the dungeons, especially at the lower levels. (The one notable exception to that being the overland raider spawn, which I'd still like to see, albeit in very light and occasional form.) I found it imprudent to repeat the specifics of that earlier discussion and the real meat of my proposal, because I am aware of the popular impatience with the length of my posts. I thusly failed to take into account others' attempting to read things into my posts that weren't there.

I have many failings, that's one of them. Oh well.

-Galen's player
 

fajico

Seasoned Veteran
Premium
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
I just received a NPC guild sign (Tinkers' Guild) as a reward of Traders Quest.
When you start Traders Quest, you receive orders which only have 1 item on it.
After you complete certain number of orders, you progress to next level .
I didn't count and remember correctly but I think I completed 30 - 50 orders when I progressed from level 1 to level 2. You get orders which have 2 items on them in level 2.
I just completed my 20th order in level 2 and just received the guild sign and the next order I got has 3 items on it so I think I just progressed to level 3. I only returned orders to Trade Ministers, never returned any to Slim the Fence.
I don't know I was just lucky to get the sign or it's a fixed reward for finishing a level.
Tinkers'GuildSign.png
 

Promathia

Social Distancing Since '97
Premium
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I just received a NPC guild sign (Tinkers' Guild) as a reward of Traders Quest.
When you start Traders Quest, you receive orders which only have 1 item on it.
After you complete certain number of orders, you progress to next level .
I didn't count and remember correctly but I think I completed 30 - 50 orders when I progressed from level 1 to level 2. You get orders which have 2 items on them in level 2.
I just completed my 20th order in level 2 and just received the guild sign and the next order I got has 3 items on it so I think I just progressed to level 3. I only returned orders to Trade Ministers, never returned any to Slim the Fence.
I don't know I was just lucky to get the sign or it's a fixed reward for finishing a level.
View attachment 22858
Awesome. I know I will be doing plenty of the regular + slim the fence versions.
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Patron
I just received a NPC guild sign (Tinkers' Guild) as a reward of Traders Quest.
When you start Traders Quest, you receive orders which only have 1 item on it.
After you complete certain number of orders, you progress to next level .
I didn't count and remember correctly but I think I completed 30 - 50 orders when I progressed from level 1 to level 2. You get orders which have 2 items on them in level 2.
I just completed my 20th order in level 2 and just received the guild sign and the next order I got has 3 items on it so I think I just progressed to level 3. I only returned orders to Trade Ministers, never returned any to Slim the Fence.
I don't know I was just lucky to get the sign or it's a fixed reward for finishing a level.
View attachment 22858
I got a NPC guild sign in my second quest, so it took you long time you get it :) or I was very lucky
 

GarthGrey

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Looks like this trader quest system is going to work out nicely, too bad they left this ridiculous fishing quest so fubar'd. I"m on my 178th straight quest and still no 120. Sorry to not offer anything to the current thread, but it's another example of leaving one thing broken while starting a new one.

By the way, this is on Siege, and yes I know, I've chosen to play here and don't have to. 178 straight quests and having to "GATE" mind you, to all of them. I don't have the luxury of recalling all over creation, back and forth. And don't even get me started on dungeon fishing here. Anyway, my point, please devs, while this new stuff will be great I'm sure, don't forget to fix the things you never fixed. :)
 
Last edited:

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
4 - I take it that the 1,000 Luck bonus for hunting in Fel is over and on top of whatever bonus there is already? I would urge you to remember that Fel is a niche market by definition, and that attempts to mainstream it over the years have failed, and for good reasons. Most of us don't want to PvP. There's already power scrolls, unique content, unique artifacts, double Fame, double resources, and most people still don't want to go there. I appreciate that you on the dev team don't get this, but it's still a fact that, I argue, you should deal with in order to continue the viability of this product called UO.

-Galen's player
Yes, it's 1k additional if you're wearing a luck suit. As far as it being in Fel, I don't mind it at all. I can't speak for GL, but it hasn't really been a problem on LS (outside of one idiot in the Blackthorn dungeon), and I prefer doing my hunting there, for that specific reason. Nobody goes there, so you get the places all to yourself, and you get to kill people too. Even if I did run into someone who'd attack me, I'm more than capable of defending myself, though I wouldn't really need to. There's only two guilds that regularly fight one another on LS, and neither of us will interrupt if a random person is hunting in a dungeon.
 

Gidge

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I just received a NPC guild sign (Tinkers' Guild) as a reward of Traders Quest.
When you start Traders Quest, you receive orders which only have 1 item on it.
After you complete certain number of orders, you progress to next level .
I didn't count and remember correctly but I think I completed 30 - 50 orders when I progressed from level 1 to level 2. You get orders which have 2 items on them in level 2.
I just completed my 20th order in level 2 and just received the guild sign and the next order I got has 3 items on it so I think I just progressed to level 3. I only returned orders to Trade Ministers, never returned any to Slim the Fence.
I don't know I was just lucky to get the sign or it's a fixed reward for finishing a level.
View attachment 22858
I received Slim's secret note on my first one and on that same first one that I turned in, to the correct town not Slim, I got the Miner's Guild Sign. Then ingots, then scales.
 

Cerwin Vega

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Ive been looking around for Slim and I cant find him... Does he hop from town to town?
 

Cetric

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
couple quick notes so far:

1 - Jewelery that has no negative properties but now has a durability SHOULD be allowed to be "power of forted". Why should a nice jewel be allowed to die if it was found vs imbued with no negatives?

2 - the new monsters are way too powerful in a group, some even alone. i just got one-shot pop shotted by an ogre.

3 - dismount timer at 4 seconds is too low, should bump to 7sec as someone said. i just put ninja on and was about to form away before they could hit me again.

4 - VvV is very buggy so far as promathia has been pointing out

5 - Stat loss SHOULD be lessed - 5 minutes tops or just get rid of it. i want to pvp, i dont want to sit and wait because i died. im in factions currently and i dont like the stat loss now - i had high hopes it would be changed. I understand the point of stat loss, but understand that in UO, with its defensive ability vs dexers reliant on your skill... when you are in stat you become "hit everytime dexer bait"

6 - new talismans are nice

7 - whats this new ninja hood with 1fc? anyone know the properties?

8 - ephemeral items should not be changed to antique. The game is loaded with TONS of amazing legendary artifact ephemeral items. changing them to antiqued will be overpowering for suits. I see all of the worth while ephemeral items have been bought up across shards already.
 
Last edited:

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
couple quick notes so far:

1 - Jewelery that has no negative properties but now has a durability SHOULD be allowed to be "power of forted". Why should a nice jewel be allowed to die if it was found vs imbued with no negatives?

2 - the new monsters are way too powerful in a group, some even alone. i just got one-shot pop shotted by an ogre.

3 - dismount timer at 4 seconds is too low, should bump to 7sec as someone said. i just put ninja on and was about to form away before they could hit me again.

4 - VvV is very buggy so far as promathia has been pointing out

5 - Stat loss SHOULD be lessed - 5 minutes tops or just get rid of it. i want to pvp, i dont want to sit and wait because i died. im in factions currently and i dont like the stat loss now - i had high hopes it would be changed.

6 - new talismans are nice

7 - whats this new ninja hood with 1fc? anyone know the properties?
It's not a hood it's an ugly mempo.. supposedly you can imbue good stuff onto it.


And I agree with all this.
 

Quickblade

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
7 - whats this new ninja hood with 1fc? anyone know the properties?
Its going to be a base resist leather mempo 2/4/3/3/3 or maybe slightly more with 1 Faster cast and imbuable probly enhancable too , thats is from Kyronix himself
 

Cetric

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
For those interested, here is a screenshot. It is imbutable with a 500 intensity cap 5 property cap, and is enhancable. and its medable. Cannot be reforged

 

Uriah Heep

Grand Poobah
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
couple quick notes so far:

1 - Jewelery that has no negative properties but now has a durability SHOULD be allowed to be "power of forted". Why should a nice jewel be allowed to die if it was found vs imbued with no negatives?
.
I like this. Everything ingame should have a durability on it, and no Powder except before it's imbued, if it cant be imbued it can't be powdered. And I mean Everything...jewelry shouldn't get a pass on wearing out, same as armor. Artis and stuff like Tangle and Crimson shoould be no powder with 255. Give the hunters and crafters something to do beside yawn...
 

Cetric

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I like this. Everything ingame should have a durability on it, and no Powder except before it's imbued, if it cant be imbued it can't be powdered. And I mean Everything...jewelry shouldn't get a pass on wearing out, same as armor. Artis and stuff like Tangle and Crimson shoould be no powder with 255. Give the hunters and crafters something to do beside yawn...
if thats the case then so be it, add unpowderable durability to everything. if it isn't the case then jewels should not be different than armor.
 

Cetric

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
some pages back i saw someone say that they wish "morph earrings" could be added to the rewards. awesome idea. i always liked them but i perosnally dont like using faction arties, even in factions. They arent game breaking but they come in handy.
 

Yadd of Legends

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
I insured a prized weapon and it cost me roughly 4k for that one weapon. I think this is the general right direction for having "better" items/armor making there insurance much higher. A full prized suit would cost you 40-50k per death..... I like it
All of you are hitting "like" because you have to pay more money for dying?
 

G.v.P

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
There's a known issue with talisman property generation, they will spawn with properties more in line with what's currently available on a future update to TC1.
:'( lol so much for wanting to do Lady Mel again...
 

archiv

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I just received a NPC guild sign (Tinkers' Guild) as a reward of Traders Quest.
When you start Traders Quest, you receive orders which only have 1 item on it.
After you complete certain number of orders, you progress to next level .
I didn't count and remember correctly but I think I completed 30 - 50 orders when I progressed from level 1 to level 2. You get orders which have 2 items on them in level 2.
I just completed my 20th order in level 2 and just received the guild sign and the next order I got has 3 items on it so I think I just progressed to level 3. I only returned orders to Trade Ministers, never returned any to Slim the Fence.
I don't know I was just lucky to get the sign or it's a fixed reward for finishing a level.
View attachment 22858
For what it's worth, I've only completed 2 quests, both single items, and both have rewarded me with a sign. Cavalry Guild and Armourer's guild. I'd say the rewards are purely random and not level based?
On that note, with the existing rewards as they stand, I'd like to see the pardon, key and SoT added to the "good" rewards. Keep them on the "evil" rewards but give the good guys something usable.
And on one more note, please lock down Slim! Apparently I'm one of those with terrible luck, sailed to all 3 locations and not at any. Had it not been for my curiosity to complete, that would have been my first and final traders quest.
 

GalenKnighthawke

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Yes, it's 1k additional if you're wearing a luck suit. As far as it being in Fel, I don't mind it at all. I can't speak for GL, but it hasn't really been a problem on LS (outside of one idiot in the Blackthorn dungeon), and I prefer doing my hunting there, for that specific reason. Nobody goes there, so you get the places all to yourself, and you get to kill people too. Even if I did run into someone who'd attack me, I'm more than capable of defending myself, though I wouldn't really need to. There's only two guilds that regularly fight one another on LS, and neither of us will interrupt if a random person is hunting in a dungeon.
It takes fewer lines to misrepresent a position than it does fully to explain one.

Firstly, I can't say as I can figure where you got that you had to already be wearing a Luck suit to get the bonus.

Here is the language from the Publish Notes:

"Loot generated in Felucca has a 1000 point luck bonus applied to it, as well as bonuses to budgets used in item property generation."
http://uo.com/article/Publish-86-TC1

I didn't read that and somehow get that you had to have a Luck suit on already. I read it as that there was 1,000 Luck for "loot generated in Felucca." If you were right about how it works, then it's still not reflected as such in the Publish Notes.

I suppose you might have meant this post:

http://stratics.com/community/threads/uo-com-producer-note.318249/

wherein this statement was made by K:

"Visit Felucca and you will get a boost to the base budget of items run through property generation AND a boost to the budget bonus to items run through property generation, but wait! There's more! Come to Felucca today and you get a 1000 point luck boost on top of whatever luck you are carrying on your suit!"

However, even then, he just said "on top of whatever luck you re carrying on your suit." In other words, if 0, 0+ 1,000 is 1,000. Further I read this statement as applying right now, based on this post:

http://stratics.com/community/threads/uo-com-producer-note.318250/

Wherein K said:

"This is how it currently works on production. Been that way for a while."

If you go the original thread:

http://stratics.com/community/threads/uo-com-producer-note.318250/

and do an edit find in page search for the phrase "that way for awhile" you will see that what was being spoken of, as being that way for awhile, was the Fel loot bonus.

My point, which really was quite plain, was that they want people to go to Fel and for the most part people just don't want to. So why keep trying to offer incentives?

For some people, the ability to control a spawn area or the mere fact of the lack of population, or both, will be enough. Making the loot better just isn't good business sense.

-Galen's player
 

Smoot

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
It takes fewer lines to misrepresent a position than it does fully to explain one.

Firstly, I can't say as I can figure where you got that you had to already be wearing a Luck suit to get the bonus.

Here is the language from the Publish Notes:

"Loot generated in Felucca has a 1000 point luck bonus applied to it, as well as bonuses to budgets used in item property generation."
http://uo.com/article/Publish-86-TC1

I didn't read that and somehow get that you had to have a Luck suit on already. I read it as that there was 1,000 Luck for "loot generated in Felucca." If you were right about how it works, then it's still not reflected as such in the Publish Notes.

I suppose you might have meant this post:

http://stratics.com/community/threads/uo-com-producer-note.318249/

wherein this statement was made by K:

"Visit Felucca and you will get a boost to the base budget of items run through property generation AND a boost to the budget bonus to items run through property generation, but wait! There's more! Come to Felucca today and you get a 1000 point luck boost on top of whatever luck you are carrying on your suit!"

However, even then, he just said "on top of whatever luck you re carrying on your suit." In other words, if 0, 0+ 1,000 is 1,000. Further I read this statement as applying right now, based on this post:

http://stratics.com/community/threads/uo-com-producer-note.318250/

Wherein K said:

"This is how it currently works on production. Been that way for a while."

If you go the original thread:

http://stratics.com/community/threads/uo-com-producer-note.318250/

and do an edit find in page search for the phrase "that way for awhile" you will see that what was being spoken of, as being that way for awhile, was the Fel loot bonus.

My point, which really was quite plain, was that they want people to go to Fel and for the most part people just don't want to. So why keep trying to offer incentives?

For some people, the ability to control a spawn area or the mere fact of the lack of population, or both, will be enough. Making the loot better just isn't good business sense.

-Galen's player
Theres a significant amount of players the pay for UO only for fel content. pvp is most fun while "encountered" doing other activites. thats what was originally fun about UO, and what is still fun about about other non-consenual pvp games. This type of pvp, not a battleground or arena, has been largely ignored and lost over the years as trammel content has been focused on.

The devs have put worthwhile content / incentives in fel that people are using. If you dont believe me, just check out fel shame and youl find people hunting for whetstones. fel heartwood and youl find crafters. lady mel fel. i really wish there was a fel side dreadhorn as id be there exclusively rather than ilsh. most the best shame-loot farmers hunt in fel.

Im gonna say about 10 percent of UO players pay only to pvp, while another 10-15 percent enjoy it along with other content.
The number doesnt matter, lets say for the sake of arguement the number is 5%

Imagine Ford, or Walmart, or Apple ignoring 5% of total revenue / customerbase, AND not doing anything to increase that customerbase.

It just wouldnt make sense businesswise for the Devs to ignore fel content (PVP systems is only the surface of fel content)

when businesses are trying to market a product to people who otherwise wouldnt be interested, incentives are offered.
if only a very small percentage of people take advantage of those incentives, its still a business win. and the goal of the incentive has been met.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Well for some of us with over 40 characters I have too much reason to be constantly farming them.... I don't need to have to replace suits along with trying to stay with the times and upgrade 40+ characters.
You could just use less than perfect suits, and probably notice no difference in your effectiveness.
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
:'( lol so much for wanting to do Lady Mel again...
haha. I'd say it's still worth it. I don't remember all of what was on the corpse (the sheer volume of loot made sorting difficult), but there was A LOT of stuff that didn't suck (compared to what's on regular shards now.) The number of things a Peerless drops alone means you'll find something good (and possibly many somethings)
 

Uriah Heep

Grand Poobah
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I did because I think insurance is stupid, so the harder it is to insure stuff the better imo. :p
I liked it too, even tho I am a pvm player. I wish they would keep phasing insurance out, much like they are doing with the cursed items. I like playing the old school, I only insure my earrings and crimson, not the armor nor weapons. It's kinda sad to see people get killed, and instead of battling back to the corpse, just walk off, cause in the end, all they lost was a bit of ego...

More non-PoF'able, more non insurable, items is the way I believe we should go. It will keep everyone busy getting replacement parts and pieces, instead of standing around waiting on that next patch.
 

GalenKnighthawke

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Theres a significant amount of players the pay for UO only for fel content. pvp is most fun while "encountered" doing other activites. thats what was originally fun about UO, and what is still fun about about other non-consenual pvp games. This type of pvp, not a battleground or arena, has been largely ignored and lost over the years as trammel content has been focused on.

The devs have put worthwhile content / incentives in fel that people are using. If you dont believe me, just check out fel shame and youl find people hunting for whetstones. fel heartwood and youl find crafters. lady mel fel. i really wish there was a fel side dreadhorn as id be there exclusively rather than ilsh. most the best shame-loot farmers hunt in fel.

Im gonna say about 10 percent of UO players pay only to pvp, while another 10-15 percent enjoy it along with other content.
The number doesnt matter, lets say for the sake of arguement the number is 5%

Imagine Ford, or Walmart, or Apple ignoring 5% of total revenue / customerbase, AND not doing anything to increase that customerbase.

It just wouldnt make sense businesswise for the Devs to ignore fel content (PVP systems is only the surface of fel content)

when businesses are trying to market a product to people who otherwise wouldnt be interested, incentives are offered.
if only a very small percentage of people take advantage of those incentives, its still a business win. and the goal of the incentive has been met.
*sighs*

The percentage does matter, actually, by definition indeed it would matter a lot. Especially when you consider that those inhabiting that percentage tend to try and deliberately disparage the other 95%. (Look for example at the mempo thread. Also look at Global Chat night after night on any shard with significant population. Also look at the bragging about disruption of RP events which has gone on for years.)

To say that the team is doing nothing for Fel pretty much flies in the face of, you know, much of the rest of your post, wherein you attempt to justify what they have been doing. In other words most of your supporting evidence depends upon facts that your conclusions seek to deny.

To say Fel's being given nothing without the extra Luck is incorrect. By definition they'd still be getting the same content, in addition to Vice vs Virtue which, regardless of whether one likes it or not, by definition is PvP content for Fel. PvP content, for the PvP oriented facet. In Fel you could seek to control the are you're hunting in. Paradoxically, but not coincidentally, in Fel you have a higher chance of not having competition in the hunting area. Both of those are powerful incentives to some and neither of those, as long as the possibility for the same loot as there was in Trammel being there, reasonably can be characterized as ignoring Fel.

-Galen's player
 

Smoot

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i dont think you read my post carefully galen. in the words of Petra "there must be a misunderstanding"
 

Uriah Heep

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The EMs could include Fel in events, even for everyone. On our shard, we used to have an event in a cavee in Fel, the first few of which were totally disrupted by one certain guild. The answer was to make the area where it couldnt be recalled into, only thru the EM gate, which was in Trammel...

I said then, and I say now, the pvp crowd could have been included in this, if it were handled a diff way. Instead of closing the area off, the EM should have "hired" one of the pvp guilds (pay em with some inscribed momento) to guard the event...that way less danger to participants in the event itself, and plenty of pvp for the reds wanting to fight over something besides Yew gate.

There are more ways taht Fel can be included in everything, it's just that most people don't want to go to the effort...
 

BeaIank

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I liked it too, even tho I am a pvm player. I wish they would keep phasing insurance out, much like they are doing with the cursed items. I like playing the old school, I only insure my earrings and crimson, not the armor nor weapons. It's kinda sad to see people get killed, and instead of battling back to the corpse, just walk off, cause in the end, all they lost was a bit of ego...

More non-PoF'able, more non insurable, items is the way I believe we should go. It will keep everyone busy getting replacement parts and pieces, instead of standing around waiting on that next patch.
I am not a fan of non-insurable gear, but I am all for this property that increases the insurance price. Insurable gear was surely a factor to help me keep playing when I was starting. I died way too often due to high ping and it would be very frustrating to keep dying without being able to reach my body and recover my gear.
Still, I think every item should have durability and some of the arties shouldn't be POFable.

As it is now, there is no incentive to replace tangles, crimsons and etc since they are "Mumm Ra, the everlasting". They will only get replaced if something better shows up.
If those items would wear out, they would be hunted for more often and there would be a more thriving market for them, since they would have to be replaced once in a while.

Btw, give them the prized property too, so they will cost more to insure. :p
 

Smoot

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The EMs could include Fel in events, even for everyone. On our shard, we used to have an event in a cavee in Fel, the first few of which were totally disrupted by one certain guild. The answer was to make the area where it couldnt be recalled into, only thru the EM gate, which was in Trammel...

I said then, and I say now, the pvp crowd could have been included in this, if it were handled a diff way. Instead of closing the area off, the EM should have "hired" one of the pvp guilds (pay em with some inscribed momento) to guard the event...that way less danger to participants in the event itself, and plenty of pvp for the reds wanting to fight over something besides Yew gate.

There are more ways taht Fel can be included in everything, it's just that most people don't want to go to the effort...
some of the EMs do a very good job at doing some fel events. fel events are a nice change of pace, as killing the boss is secondary to staying alive from PKs. Atlantic has a good number, Chessys last one was awesome (when the EMs realized a timered boss doesnt work for a fel event) it promotes teamplay and a little strategy which is very nice. i give those EMs credit, its very refreshing to see more than a "tank & spank" event.
 

Smoot

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I am not a fan of non-insurable gear, but I am all for this property that increases the insurance price. Insurable gear was surely a factor to help me keep playing when I was starting. I died way too often due to high ping and it would be very frustrating to keep dying without being able to reach my body and recover my gear.
Still, I think every item should have durability and some of the arties shouldn't be POFable.

As it is now, there is no incentive to replace tangles, crimsons and etc since they are "Mumm Ra, the everlasting". They will only get replaced if something better shows up.
If those items would wear out, they would be hunted for more often and there would be a more thriving market for them, since they would have to be replaced once in a while.

Btw, give them the prized property too, so they will cost more to insure. :p
honestly, 255 items never wear out. even 150 takes a few years. durability would have to be 100 or below, and i think there would be a massive backlash if that were the case.
 

kronides

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When items weren't insurable it was a different game. Gear was standardized and easily replaced.That is no longer the case. I'm sure some of you can, but we can't all run out and drop 30+ mill on a suit every time we can't get our stuff back now, for not even top-end stuff! And going back to plain GM-tailored armor is not an option in today's game.

Taking out insurance means a lot more than just taking out insurance. They'd have to change basically everything about the game.
 

azmodanb

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Yes it seems you get more prizes... on the evil side
. but lets not forget the good side funds towns which give character buffs... i feel its a decent trade off.
 

BeaIank

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honestly, 255 items never wear out. even 150 takes a few years. durability would have to be 100 or below, and i think there would be a massive backlash if that were the case.
For fighters, they would wear out a bit quicker, but yes, I agree. 255 takes a loooooong while to wear out. 150 would be a better number. 100 would make you have to replace them pretty often, and I wouldn't have a problem with that.
But I imagine the sort of backlash that such change would do...
 

Uvtha

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For fighters, they would wear out a bit quicker, but yes, I agree. 255 takes a loooooong while to wear out. 150 would be a better number. 100 would make you have to replace them pretty often, and I wouldn't have a problem with that.
But I imagine the sort of backlash that such change would do...
I think it would be cool if everything broke more often. Then people could stop obsessing about perfecting their suits and just go play the game.
 

GalenKnighthawke

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i dont think you read my post carefully galen. in the words of Petra "there must be a misunderstanding"
You, in essence, are arguing that without the additional Luck bonus, to which I am objecting, Fel would in effect be being given "nothing" because content for the PvP facet that is focused on PvP somehow does not count.

I think you're wrong and I articulated, in the plainest terms I could, why so.

I further think that perhaps the most-telling part of your post in retrospect was where you stated that PvP was at its most fun when encountered doing other things. If most players agreed with you, then Trammel never would have been necessary to begin with, other games that are designed around drastically different assumptions would not have been as successful as they have been and continue to be, and no incentives would be needed to get people to Fel. They would be there already.

-Galen's player
 

GalenKnighthawke

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I think it would be cool if everything broke more often. Then people could stop obsessing about perfecting their suits and just go play the game.
This statement, though pithy, is not based on fact.

When suits did break more often, and were not insure-able, there still was a good bit of obsessing over equipment. Plate vs leather vs bone; GM-made vs. looted; at what point does a magic weapon become superior to a GM-made one; etc. Do you go with full plate and take the dex penalty in exchange for looking great and awesome protection? Do you go with full studded? Do you cobble together pieces from loot and take the chance that your setup was wrecked if you lost even a single piece?

In the LS RP community there was a pretty good PvPer who would just walk away from any fighting with macers. Why? Because back then maces wrecked armor and he, even in those days, valued his gear. I know anecdotally of a famous PvPer in the old days who made his displeasure widely known in an incident where a mace-wielding victim of he and his guild destroyed many pieces of his armor before she died.

If anything being able to hold on to your gear longer is what enables people to get out and play rather than, say, thinking "well damn it I got to gear up again before I go and fight that Peerless."

So again, your argument, while pithy, does not match what is observed.

-Galen's player
 

Uvtha

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This statement, though pithy, is not based on fact.

When suits did break more often, and were not insure-able, there still was a good bit of obsessing over equipment. Plate vs leather vs bone; GM-made vs. looted; at what point does a magic weapon become superior to a GM-made one; etc. Do you go with full plate and take the dex penalty in exchange for looking great and awesome protection? Do you go with full studded? Do you cobble together pieces from loot and take the chance that your setup was wrecked if you lost even a single piece?

In the LS RP community there was a pretty good PvPer who would just walk away from any fighting with macers. Why? Because back then maces wrecked armor and he, even in those days, valued his gear. I know anecdotally of a famous PvPer in the old days who made his displeasure widely known in an incident where a mace-wielding victim of he and his guild destroyed many pieces of his armor before she died.

If anything being able to hold on to your gear longer is what enables people to get out and play rather than, say, thinking "well damn it I got to gear up again before I go and fight that Peerless."

So again, your argument, while pithy, does not match what is observed.

-Galen's player
There's a difference between caring about gear and spending hours and hours and hours grinding to try to improve your suit by 1%. I never said no one cared about gear in the olden times, I was there (on LS no less) and I know they did, I sold them GM armor for years and years. They didn't however obsess. Such obsession is a direct result of a combo of more complex items making good items more necessary and more crucially lack of item loss.

Just like how people on siege care about their suits, but because they know they'll probably lose it they just make some standard "good" suits, and go about your business. If you find better stuff when your hunting you use that or keep it for future suit building.

That is what I meant. I apologize for not being more detailed about it.
 

GalenKnighthawke

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There's a difference between caring about gear and spending hours and hours and hours grinding to try to improve your suit by 1%. I never said no one cared about gear in the olden times, I was there (on LS no less) and I know they did, I sold them GM armor for years and years. They didn't however obsess. Such obsession is a direct result of a combo of more complex items making good items more necessary and more crucially lack of item loss.

Just like how people on siege care about their suits, but because they know they'll probably lose it they just make some standard "good" suits, and go about your business. If you find better stuff when your hunting you use that or keep it for future suit building.

That is what I meant. I apologize for not being more detailed about it.
There's certain terms which we must use in a discussion like this which, sadly, can't have a precise definition. And there's no way around their use. For example "obsessing" and "1%." I submit that it's possible, perhaps even likely, dare I say, that what might look like obsession now might merely be different than what happened then, rather than categorically better or worse.

-Galen's player
 

Ender

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Phase 1 of VvV... Guess I can plan on not playing for the next month until the publish is live. All I care about in it is the new loot, too. :/
 

Smoot

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You, in essence, are arguing that without the additional Luck bonus, to which I am objecting, Fel would in effect be being given "nothing" because content for the PvP facet that is focused on PvP somehow does not count.

I think you're wrong and I articulated, in the plainest terms I could, why so.

I further think that perhaps the most-telling part of your post in retrospect was where you stated that PvP was at its most fun when encountered doing other things. If most players agreed with you, then Trammel never would have been necessary to begin with, other games that are designed around drastically different assumptions would not have been as successful as they have been and continue to be, and no incentives would be needed to get people to Fel. They would be there already.

-Galen's player
i think there was a misunderstanding.
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
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BUG: SOS drops Wands that do not have new loot generation. In addition, it seems that the "Antique Wedding Dress" SOS reward is dropping as "A Plain Dress"
Maybe best to keep the wands as they are, they are great for young mages and I would hate to see them lose their mods.
 
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