NEWS [UO.Com] Combat Changes Update on TC1

[UO News]

Greetings All, We have updated TC1 based on the latest player feedback as of today 12/8/2016. These changes are currently active on TC1. These will not be deployed World Wide for quite some time and are subject to change. We wanted to give everyone interested a time to provide feedback, so head on over to TC1 and check them out! You can read all about the changes here. Don’t forget to send us your feedback here. See you in Britannia, UO Team

Continue reading...

 

[Bleak]

I'm on TC now (Yew Gate) for anyone looking to test and give feedback. I will only be discussing the changes that are listed in the notes.

 

[elster]

@Bleak regardless of the result, I really appreciate this iterative approach driven by player input.

 

[cobb]

Why was Saving Throw removed? I don't get it. I understand some people were talking about removing it from ranged weapons, but this change affects all weapon skills.

And do the bonuses from Warrior's Gifts allow a player to go beyond the current hci/dci and hp caps?

 

[elster]

#makedisarmsgreatagain ?

 

[drcossack]

Thoughts so far:

Revert on spell plague.
No to the Mastery change. It sounds good, but there are a few issues with it: 1) HCI/DCI are already at their maximum. The HP Bonus: My LS suit is 130 str/140 HP before pots (already with max HP Increase), and this new mastery increases it even further, to 155. It shouldn't work independently of the HP Increase modifier. With a Greater Str pot, my str/HP go up to 150/165.

edit:

Switching masteries from Weapon skill to any other drops your DCI, even if you're already at the cap. I normally run max DCI, and switching off of Swords dropped me to 40 DCI.

 

[Lord Nabin]

@Bleak Very much appreciate the interactive communication and research with the player base. This is a winning strategy.

*Raises a glass of Good Old Moonglow Red in Bleak's direction in salute*

*Then sits back down quickly do to the pain in his back...*

 

[Tjalle]

No to the Mastery change. It sounds good, but there are a few issues with it: 1) HCI/DCI are already at their maximum. The HP Bonus: My LS suit is 130 str/140 HP before pots (already with max HP Increase), and this new mastery increases it even further, to 155. It shouldn't work independently of the HP Increase modifier. With a Greater Str pot, my str/HP go up to 150/165.

Remember now that everyone doesn´t play on the prodo shards.
From what I get from the Warrior's Gift proposal, it could be a very welcomed feature on Siege.

 

[Dorinda]

@Bleak add toggle of specials while casting!!!

 

[cobb]

I feel the +15 hp is a bit too much, especially since it allows you to reach 165 hp.

 

[drcossack]

Remember now that everyone doesn´t play on the prodo shards.
From what I get from the Warrior's Gift proposal, it could be a very welcomed feature on Siege.

Perhaps you misunderstood: the current HP Cap is 150. I understand it's harder to get on Siege, but even those shards have the "25 HP from HP Increase" cap. I'm fine with the +15 HP from a level 3 Mastery, but it shouldn't work independently of the item cap.

Sure, prodo is a different meta, but even on a Siege-ruleset shard, that HP Bonus will be ridiculous. You're going from 125 Str/112 HP to, with just the new mastery, 125/127, and you're going to get even more by using a Greater Strength pot. That was with 50% EP. I just tested it without EP and took off my HP/Str increasing items, and with the +16% base boost, I'm at 146 Str/138 HP.

 

[randy]

Great updates Mystic was about to get stupid offensively and defensively after people are complaining about balance there shouldn't be a way to avoid disarm with a mastery so kudos to @Bleak

 

[elster]

**** I'm about to add swords to all my mages just for that mastery buff.

 

[Great DC]

Spell plague was nerfed too much, it actually does less damage on test then does on production servers, lol. I think plague cast should be 28-31 dmg on initial hit, its cast time is same as flame strike.

The new mastery buff is beyond ridiculous and needs to go. Nothing should be able to over cap HPI. Ranged templates don't need anymore help. Even if it doesn't overcap it dexxers could just go crimmy and mastery for max hpi and open lots of suit space for more unlimited special spamming.

According to bleak no change is coming to alchemy so all of this change is mute until it is fixed. Guess Ill just keep farming shadowgaurd until it is looked into.

 

[transcendent]

All the updates look good except for Warriors Gifts. +15 HP that goes past the cap is extreme. Needs to be toned down. +5 HP at most

 

[CovenantX]

Spell-plague went from 34 damage (with curse) to 24 (with curse) between this and the previous update. Edit: This was NOT counting the scribe bonus on both tests.

As for the "Warrior's Gifts" Passive mastery. Remove it from ranged weapons, and keep it.

OR

Remove Supernovas & the new passive mastery and the game would be much better for everyone.

 

[CovenantX]

According to bleak no change is coming to alchemy so all of this change is mute until it is fixed.

might as well not have a patch at all if novas aren't nerfed or removed. leave pvp the way it is until it is no more. (lol /cry)

 

[randy]

might as well not have a patch at all if novas aren't nerfed or removed. leave pvp the way it is until it is no more. (lol /cry)

Nothing wrong with Nova. You seem to be in the minority that investing 100 skill inc in a skill should have very little back to offer it in terms of Alchy.

 

[drcossack]

Nothing wrong with Nova. You seem to be in the minority that investing 100 skill inc in a skill should have very little back to offer it in terms of Alchy.

 

[CovenantX]

Nothing wrong with Nova. You seem to be in the minority that investing 100 skill inc in a skill should have very little back to offer it in terms of Alchy.

So, I guess the bonuses to every potion aside from supernovas aren't worth the 100.0 skill investment?

 

[randy]

Per usual great post probably your best one yet lets keep it about pvp though.

 

[randy]

So, I guess the bonuses to every potion aside from supernovas aren't worth the 100.0 skill investment?

Not at all.

 

[CovenantX]

Not at all.

Thank you, that's what the problem is.

 

[CovenantX]

Nothing wrong with Nova. You seem to be in the minority that investing 100 skill inc in a skill should have very little back to offer it in terms of Alchy.

So, I guess the bonuses to every potion aside from supernovas aren't worth the 100.0 skill investment?

Not at all.

Thank you, that's what the problem is.

You're just one guy, but you said the same thing everyone would say. I appreciate it that you took the time to answer the question, further exposing the problem with supernovas and the reason everyone has alchemy in the first place.

Now. It helps alot knowing which template you play btw. (it's the only reason to care who is who from stratics to UO).

Knowing the answer to the question is the easy part, it's getting someone else to tell you what the right answer is.

 

[drcossack]

Per usual great post probably your best one yet lets keep it about pvp though.

If this was directed at me, save it. How many times do I have to REPEAT THE SAME ARGUMENTS, with numerical proof given every time, as to why Novas/Alchemy are broken? I have refuted every single statement the pro-Alchemy/Supernova camp has come up with, and not one of you has come up with an actual counter-argument (that isn't just as easy to shut down.) If my position on ANYTHING is wrong, I will admit to it. Unfortunately for you, I'm NOT wrong on anything that I've said about Supernovas/Alchemy. It's why there hasn't been one solid/non-biased counter-argument in favor of them.

 

[chad]

Moving in the right direction!

1. With the removal of saving throws, splintering weapons need to be looked at. Disarm + splinter is so incredibly powerful, that it almost always results in a guaranteed death between competent players. I would suggest removing the ability for splintering weapon to proc when using special moves, or at the very least, when using disarm.

2. The saving throws replacement "Warrior’s Gifts" is interesting, but could use some minor revising. +15 HPI is too powerful and is specifically beneficial to creation of 210 stamina archer suits. No other templates really struggle to obtain the +25 HPI cap. I feel as though we should hold off on any inadvertent buffs to archers of that scale. A much more balanced and acceptable mastery would be: +5 HCI / +5 DCI / +15 damage increase.

3. There's so many defensive options in this game nowadays that take little to no effort to acquire. (18 HPR/ 15 damage eater/ 50 ep/refinements) This is fine and all, but 15 SDI just does not cut it, even with ancillary skills. We absolutely need a 20 SDI cap for non-focused mages.

"Removed baked in bonus damage from Intelligence and 15% SDI from Spell Plague damage calculation."

If you take into account my recommendation to buff the SDI cap to 20, you could change the 15% SDI removal from spell plague to 10% and it would probably be hitting the sweet spot in terms of balance. As it stands, spell plague on Test Center is lacking.

 

[randy]

You're just one guy, but you said the same thing everyone would say. I appreciate it that you took the time to answer the question, further exposing the problem with supernovas and the reason everyone has alchemy in the first place.

Now. It helps alot knowing which template you play btw. (it's the only reason to care who is who from stratics to UO).

Knowing the answer to the question is the easy part, it's getting someone else to tell you what the right answer is.

So investing 100 skill points shouldn't give you something worth having? I don't see people having an issue with you omen conc people for like 80 is that not a bigger issue than a nova?

 

[CovenantX]

So investing 100 skill points shouldn't give you something worth having? I don't see people having an issue with you omen conc people for like 80 is that not a bigger issue than a nova?

No, It shouldn't be worth investing 100.0 skill for just one thing.

If it wasn't, why would every mage pick alchemy over say... scribe? It's not rocket science, it's UO.

 

[CovenantX]

So investing 100 skill points shouldn't give you something worth having? I don't see people having an issue with you omen conc people for like 80 is that not a bigger issue than a nova?

you can do something about Omen conc, can't you? besides, it is Overpowered when you use it with archery is it not? ....but guess what? it can still miss.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

No, It shouldn't be worth investing 100.0 skill for just one thing.

If it wasn't, why would every mage pick alchemy over say... scribe? It's not rocket science, it's UO.

Because there are multiple pots vs about 8 damage a sync. As far as damage goes in an explode/fs nova combo. Having gm scribe or alchy will do about the same in that combo. But the extra hp in heals, better chance of cure etc, is what sells alchemy

 

[CovenantX]

Because there are multiple pots vs about 8 damage a sync. As far as damage goes in an explode/fs nova combo. Having gm scribe or alchy will do about the same in that combo. But the extra hp in heals, better chance of cure etc, is what sells alchemy

.... that and any mage without alchemy, that has scribe would cast something after explode/FS because it doesn't do enough damage to kill anyone. but hey, anything you "Cast" after the explode/FS is interruptible.... and would have a cast time + mana cost, no?

Another thing, better chance to cure? Really? lol, that only applies if you're fighting someone that has poisoning... posion is 100% cure chance with 0 EP and LESSER cure potions.

and no one has Poisoning or Scribe over Alchemy, they'd have both it's always Alchemy first > Scribe or Poisoning if there's room... (or healing in your case)

 

[randy]

you can do something about Omen conc, can't you? besides, it is Overpowered when you use it with archery is it not?

So that is fine because you use it? Now apparently I should as well? I mean you could have alchy if it's such an op thing in your opinion no?

 

[CovenantX]

So that is fine because you use it? Now apparently I should as well? I mean you could have alchy if it's such an op thing in your opinion no?

I use it with melee, because it's the only "Melee" template that's effective besides NS/DS or any variant with 4/6 chiv or taming.

I don't care, which template you play. I want you to beable to play whatever you want, not play something because you "NEED" to.

 

[randy]

I read that wrong my bad you can also do something about nova run away you it has a small range and you know when it's coming when you're low.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

.... that and any mage without alchemy, that has scribe would cast something after explode/FS because it doesn't do enough damage to kill anyone. but hey, anything you "Cast" after the explode/FS is interruptible.... and would have a cast time + mana cost, no?

Another thing, better chance to cure? Really? lol, that only applies if you're fighting someone that has poisoning... posion is 100% cure chance with 0 EP and LESSER cure potions.

and no one has poisoning over alchemy, unless they have both.

I bet you wouldn't think it is funny when it takes 20 cures to cure a lethal even with 50 EP!

And if I am casting an explode fs and another spell to get them low.. they can easily avoid a nova.

 

[CovenantX]

I read that wrong my bad you can also do something about nova run away you it has a small range and you know when it's coming when you're low.

that doesn't compare, you know why? you can run from a melee dexer when you're low too, but you know.... the dexer can still miss AND you can react to that.

you can know when a supernova is coming, but you can't avoid it. becasue if you did avoid it, it's not you that avoided it... it's the user that FAILED to use it.

 

[CovenantX]

I bet you wouldn't think it is funny when it takes 20 cures to cure a lethal even with 50 EP!

And if I am casting an explode fs and another spell to get them low.. they can easily avoid a nova.

I do think it's funny, because it only takes one Arch cure to cure it in the first place.

 

[elster]

Can you pancake about alchemy in a separate thread? It really derails these threads, and you are in the minority. Two voices screaming the same thing over and over is growing tiresome.

 

[CovenantX]

Can you ***** about alchemy in a separate thread? It really derails these threads, and you are in the minority. Two voices screaming the same thing over and over is growing tiresome.

When someone says something that makes sense as to why novas aren't a problem, I'll stop talking about it.

 

[Teh Trader Guy]

I don't care, which template you play. I want you to beable to play whatever you want, not play something because you "NEED" to.

Thats what make this game great back in the 2000s.

 

[Teh Trader Guy]

When someone says something that makes sense as to why novas aren't a problem, I'll stop talking about it.

nova is the only reason to join faction or vvv !

 

[Lord Arm]

from what ive seen, the tactics/special change is the only thing that shouldn't be done. I'm not going to post an endless debate on this. I always thought u should have at least 100/120 tactics to use specials not 70 or 90. now they want to remove this. all the fel going trammies will get screwed again. I wish you luck trammies. of coarse no one here is even thinking of this. some people just care about their better template possibilities. I see the archer may get screwed again too lol. how many nerfs to archer in a row is this? lol. the maybe moving shot needs to be 100 tactic to use or higher or have stamina limits. I don't know but to let mages and other chars types use specials without tactics and with splinting/nerve strike ect is not the way to go. a good/skilled mage should kill an archer np. just my opinions

 

[CovenantX]

nova is the only reason to join faction or vvv !

LOL, oh man... well that is probably the only good thing to say about supernovas.... makes a reason to participate in vvv ..... omg

 

[virem]

2. The saving throws replacement "Warrior’s Gifts" is interesting, but could use some minor revising. +15 HPI is too powerful and is specifically beneficial to creation of 210 stamina archer suits. No other templates really struggle to obtain the +25 HPI cap. I feel as though we should hold off on any inadvertent buffs to archers of that scale. A much more balanced and acceptable mastery would be: +5 HCI / +5 DCI / +15 damage increase.

This.

Right now the new mastery is really too strong, makes suits way to easy. I am assuming you didn't mean to overcap HP.

 

[virem]

Spell damage nerf on spell plague is too much, it should not be doing LESS than production shards. Spell plague first initial hit should be around 30-33 dmg. Right now on production it's max damage is 28.

 

[drcossack]

Can you ***** about alchemy in a separate thread? It really derails these threads, and you are in the minority. Two voices screaming the same thing over and over is growing tiresome.

If it wasn't a problem, there wouldn't be people complaining. The only reason there's a larger group being so in favor of it: they can't play without it, and don't want to see it nerfed/removed/whatever. Also because the other people that would complain about it either aren't playing, don't pvp, or don't read Stratics very often.

I don't know how often you pvp, or who your pvp chars are, nor do I care. But let me ask you this: Why do you think the # of people pvp'ing has dwindled? That's on Atl only - the few times I've pvp'd recently, I've seen the following: Hi-5, Paith's guild, F8, !GOD, LB, plus a few others. Virtually all of the players in those guilds use some combination of pots/supernovas/alchemy, if not all 3. If Alchemy/supernovas weren't a problem, it wouldn't be so universally used. I get it, players will flock to the most overpowered thing. It doesn't become a problem unless it goes unchecked, which is currently the case with Supernova pots/Alchemy.

This is for elster and everyone else: Come up with ONE counter-argument about Supernovas being fine as they are, despite being an instantly-usable Explosion/EBolt that can't miss unless you suck and use it at the wrong time. Are me & @CovenantX asking too difficult a question?

 

[CovenantX]

from what ive seen, the tactics/special change is the only thing that shouldn't be done. I'm not going to post an endless debate on this. I always thought u should have at least 100/120 tactics to use specials not 70 or 90. now they want to remove this. all the fel going trammies will get screwed again. I wish you luck trammies. of coarse no one here is even thinking of this. some people just care about their better template possibilities. I see the archer may get screwed again too lol. how many nerfs to archer in a row is this? lol. the maybe moving shot needs to be 100 tactic to use or higher or have stamina limits. I don't know but to let mages and other chars types use specials without tactics and with splinting/nerve strike ect is not the way to go. a good/skilled mage should kill an archer np. just my opinions

Bud, mages can already use specials without tactics, that's how Wrestling works... they can't be disarmed (the pro) they only get disarm & stun punch (the con).

a mage that uses nerve strike.... or anything that uses nerve strike requires weapon skill AND bushido. There's no logical explanation for tactics to be Required for specials, there wasn't when it was first implemented there still is an explanation for it now.

The fact that it's in the patch notes is the only "ray of hope" that is left for this game... at least for pvp... this doesn't hurt pvm, it wouldn't help it much either though. so why would you care about it?

 

[elster]

If it wasn't a problem, there wouldn't be people complaining. The only reason there's a larger group being so in favor of it: they can't play without it, and don't want to see it nerfed/removed/whatever. Also because the other people that would complain about it either aren't playing, don't pvp, or don't read Stratics very often.

I don't know how often you pvp, or who your pvp chars are, nor do I care. But let me ask you this: Why do you think the # of people pvp'ing has dwindled? That's on Atl only - the few times I've pvp'd recently, I've seen the following: Hi-5, Paith's guild, F8, !GOD, LB, plus a few others. Virtually all of the players in those guilds use some combination of pots/supernovas/alchemy, if not all 3. If Alchemy/supernovas weren't a problem, it wouldn't be so universally used. I get it, players will flock to the most overpowered thing. It doesn't become a problem unless it goes unchecked, which is currently the case with Supernova pots/Alchemy.

This is for elster and everyone else: Come up with ONE counter-argument about Supernovas being fine as they are, despite being an instantly-usable Explosion/EBolt that can't miss unless you suck and use it at the wrong time. Are me & @CovenantX asking too difficult a question?

I really think you aren't giving people the benefit of the doubt. I think the large group of people you speak of really want to make the game better for everyone. The more people that play, the more everyone has fun. You think there is some sinister motive behind the people who don't agree with an alchy/nova nerf, and that isn't the case. And lets be real, whatever the devs decide to do, the people at the top of PVP are going to remain there, with our without novas.

 

[Lord Arm]

Bud, mages can already use specials without tactics, that's how Wrestling works... they can't be disarmed (the pro) they only get disarm & stun punch (the con).

a mage that uses nerve strike.... or anything that uses nerve strike requires weapon skill AND bushido. There's no logical explanation for tactics to be Required for specials, there wasn't when it was first implemented there still is an explanation for it now.

The fact that it's in the patch notes is the only "ray of hope" that is left for this game... at least for pvp... this doesn't hurt pvm, it wouldn't help it much either though. so why would you care about it?

yes but u need wrestling for just 2 specials, not splintering and many others. yes they can use bush but must have the skill. to ask for a mage type to be able to do what a melee fight can. would screw a lot of templates/people. to say it wont be even easier to kill trammy pvm base chars is just totally wrong and u know. the end. do u really think people/trammies will stay or go to fel when u can just slaughter them. u know this is true. I know u can see the template possibilities to destroy. that all, have fun

 

[Bombastic Fail]

Yeah because 165 hit points with 150 str (with +15 HP over top of the cap) is fun. @Bleak
(Way to not code that correctly either)

But we will listen to people crying about alchemy.

And we won't fix archery (1 move was adjusted, not the whole spec), but you nerf parry with focus spec. And again, not alchemy. Also, chiv still looked at either. This seems really fun. /sarcasm



And we can't even get simple fixes for things like 'Use Best Weapon Skill' weapons not being able to use Evasion and bugs like that. I am seriously losing a lot of faith in these threads. It's basically...



Cry about what you want, and hope the majority abuses it like you do, and we will do it.


You don't have to worry about me testing for (SIMPLE) bugs that go un-noticed anymore. Well thought out things (AND OBVIOUS BLUNDERS) get ignored, and people whining win in the long run.


You listen to people cry about things yet... you ignore a well thought out post like this from the last thread...




NEWS - [UO.Com] Testing Combat Changes on TC1



Breakdown IMO (I played/have played each of these templates personally)



Moving Shot Update:

• Increased Mana Cost from 20 to 25
• Increased Hit Chance Penalty
• Moving Shot damage is now always Physical regardless of other damage modifiers including quivers and Consecrate Weapon

Pro: People complaining about moving shot will NOT anymore.

Con: certainly butchered it. 2 of 3 them is enough IMO. Not all 3. I do like the physical regardless portion though. I would make that one of the 3.

Suggestion: Make 2 out of 3 of these, not all 3.

_____________________________________________________________________


Special Move Update:

• Tactics is no longer required to activate Special Moves
• 70 Tactics is still required to receive weapon skill lower mana bonus for specials

Pro: More template versatility for mages/dexxers alike

Con: Allows templates that are already a bit "OP" with extremely high end armor/jewls to be even more "OP". Perhaps a new meta here.

Suggestion: If you are going to remove tactics, allow the "holding" of special moves also, so you can cast spells and have specials procced.

_____________________________________________________________________




Mysticism Update

• Updated Hail Storm damage distribution to mimic chain lightning.
• Fixed Issue where Sleep was not using its base duration time of 2 seconds.
• Fixed issue where initial spell plague does not modify spell damage based on SDI etc.
• Fixed issue where Spell Plague didn’t use modified magic resist.

Pro: Updates for mystics are always good. Spell Plague is a little strong when more than 1 mystic/spell caster is on one player though. (Group problem though, not 1v1)

Con: Not much. Other things need adjusted/attention.

Suggestion: More spells/damage need adjusted.

_____________________________________________________________________




Misc Changes

• Added Alchemy to Focus Spec restriction list

Pro: Honestly, this was needed with the added offense/defense of the skill.

Con: A lot of templates were built around this and will need swapped/changed.

Suggestion: Alchemy should be changed to act as 50% EP & EP should be capped at 50%. That way, people with good jewls can have more skill points in their template, and future builds can decide on skill points or EP on jewels. (This also make NON-EP jewls worth more). Otherwise, leave the proposed changes.


_____________________________________________________________________

• Resolved Issue where Saving throw didn’t work in PvM

Pro: Positive

Con: None

Suggestion: N/A


_____________________________________________________________________

• Increased Saving Throw Stamina Cost for ranged weapons from 25 to 35.

Pro: N/A

Con: N/A

Suggestion: N/A


_____________________________________________________________________

• Max Resist Debuffs no longer stack from Curse and Corpse Skin. The highest debuff for each max resist will be applied.

Pro: Less people complaining about it. Either way was fine with me.

Con: N/A

Suggestion: Only suggestion is make a way to drop physical resist to 60 as well (Either via curse, or corpse, or some other debuff.) It's 2016. Why can't physical go down?


_____________________________________________________________________

• Necromancers no longer need to be focused spec for corpse skin to modify max resist of target. Max resist debuff still scales based on real skill.

Pro: More necromancy templates should open up. (Not just Necro Dexxers/Archers. Necro Mages, Mystics, Tamers, etc)

Con: Less people need to use Necro Dexxer/Archers now

Suggestion: Perhaps don't need real skill to take advantage of it. You don't need real "magery" or "Eval" for curse.

_____________________________________________________________________


Added suggestion(s):



Archery

Still needed tuned down. "Moving shot" wasn't the only problem. The overall DPS with highest damage & possible speed, and the fact that they are the only items (Throwing also) that can have dual hit spells is the real problem. Moving shot fix is a bandaid.




Wrestle/Parry Combo

After an archery "tuning" this needs looked at as well. Defense is extremely high. Either needs to be adjusted accordingly, or the offensive possibilities need nerfed.


Chivalry

The big 3 (Heal, Cure, Remove Curse) should be looked at. Either via the 4 faster casting, or with mana increases. The biggest offender being the usefulness of remove curse, being so low of a mana cost, the extremely fast casting, and "ALL" curse removing all in one easy spell.



_____________________________________________________________________


Great job attempting to adjust things though!!



Ps: @Bleak - forgot to add that