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Yes I like the idea of disarmable shields. If they don't want to do that, at least force them to have a weapon skill with 4/6 so they can get disarmed! Wrestling should NOT work with chiv
How would that work with a parry mage who might rely on the heph. shield for casting, or an old-school parry dexer who uses a shield (some still play them)?
I like the idea in theory, but the wrestle over 69.9 seems to make the most sense
Clearly chivalry is made for WARRIORS ie u must have Swords or Fencing, archery , macing... wrestling is a skill for Mages and they should not get the extreme defense of parry wrestling and chiv
gl guys soon all the wres parry defenders will swoop in and cry sadly its how this has been going
IMO deathtrikers could use a buff. I like the suggestions made here about increasing frenzied whirlwind to 3 seconds. That would be a good place to start and would help other melee characters as well.
Nah, the difference is 4/6 chiv vs 2/6 Magery.
We are talking apples and oranges here.
No, sure isn't. I have said for a long time that 4/6 chiv is overpowered.
So should there not be allowed to be weapon mages as well? I mean you shouldn't be able to cast spells with a weapon. Mages should also have to equip a spell book and wear a wizards hat.
Your posts just come off very bias your 4/6 evasion chat is balanced yet somehow wrestling isn't? Either 4/6 casting is allowed or it isn't allowed this really shouldn't even be a debate. Wrestling is a form of a weapon skill always has been. I think we should make chiv 2/6 and fist damage should be cut in half if you have skills like bushido or ninja like they did 15 sdi for mages
Only because you hate Jimbo =o
Hahaha I love The trolls of Paithan and Randy. Chivalry is a warrior skill.
The problem is that u cannot get disarmed if u have wrestling and parry and chiv. If u use a weapon and u get disarmed even with chiv you will die very often.
Stop trolling please
The problem is that u cannot get disarmed if u have wrestling and parry and chiv. If u use a weapon and u get disarmed even with chiv you will die very often.
Stop trolling please
Wrestle parry fisters weakness is their offense. lol.
The only offense they have is fist/holy light. If someone dies to that alone.. well, they are probably very bad.
This is how UO has been since inception. So why would they change it now?
You should not have evasion and confidence with 4/6 chiv- 2/6 seems right.
You clearly don't know what you talking about. I know that you and Randy are frustrated of the pwning I do vs you with muchi 2vs2 and 1vs1 . I feel you. You are trollers and abuse every bugs in the game. Bushido on a chiv toon will not work so good because of low tactics and no anatomy. Keep trolling and lying as usual.
They want ( randy and paithan) to nerf Muchi Muchi Munn. Let's state simple facts.
They just wanna troll and hope to get my toon destroyed. I am the only player who plays this template in a good way and they cannot stand it
Yeah they are trying to be very manipulative and also not hiding their agenda very well
It's funny because everyone who knows abt game mechanics and pvp will say that:
- chivalry with wrestling and parry and ninja is too much because u have zero defensive weaknesses! U cannot get disarmed and if dismounted u can spam mirror images and go in animal form .
- if u play a bushido warrior with chiv and parry u can get dismounted and if your pet dies u literally in HUGE problems and gonna prolly die 100% and u can get also disarmed and the suit is very hard to make
- chivalry with wrestling and parry and ninja is too much because u have zero defensive weaknesses! U cannot get disarmed and if dismounted u can spam mirror images and go in animal form .
- if u play a bushido warrior with chiv and parry u can get dismounted and if your pet dies u literally in HUGE problems and gonna prolly die 100% and u can get also disarmed and the suit is very hard to make
Welp, I guess they should make infectious strike require Weapon skill, tactics, & poisoning.... instead of Weapon skill & Poisoning like it is now then right?
I disagree. Of all my templates it's my least favorite, and I still don't think it's OP.
I agree, and yeah, making shields disarm-able is a solid idea.
I think we do need to marginally nerf parry though. If we reduce the parry chance by 5% across the board it will somewhat balance the defense of 4/6 chiv parry, and if we make shields disarm-able as well, it will definitely balance the defense of wrestle parry chiv.
We don't need to cap chiv to 2/6 casting at all. Is it incredibly hard to kill a 4/6'er 1v1? Yeah, but that's the trade-off. Great defense, very little offense. And yes, as I explained already, Holy fist alone does not make for a powerful offense. It just gives the template some kind of offense. It was OP when it was doing 42+ damage per hit, but that's over now. If we slightly nerf parry (reduce parry chance by 5%) and make shields disarm-able it will go a long way to balancing that temp, as well as every other template.
The issue is not with chiv being 4/6. The issue is with parry. You are looking at how difficult a 4/6 chiv char with parry is to kill, and saying we need to nerf the casting, but that will only KILL the template. We don't want to kill templates, we want to balance them.
The REAL problem is with parry. 4/6 chiv is incredibly powerful defensively, but it's defense makes up for it's lack of offense. Again, the issue is with parry. ALL parry templates need a slight nerf (not a big one). 5% parry chance at 120 skill, at gm skill, with a 2 handed weapon, with a 1 handed weapon, with a shield, etc. 5% across the board will balance EVERY template with parry. And making shields disarm-able will balance the wrestle parry chiv templates in particular, as they do not have the weakness that chiv characters with weapons have. They will still have a 50% defense chance, so their defense will still be marginally better than the chiv with a weapon's will be, but on the same token, they currently don't have the offensive abilities that a chiv character with a weapon has. The trade-offs will be fair.
Again, nerf parry chance by 5% for everyone, and make shields disarm-able.
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50% defense chance is a huge vulnerability against archers these days, especially if the shield has 1 fc- but with these uber-archer nerfs, I still think they're going to have a very difficult time against even a 3/6 chiv char.
If you want to check my posts here- I have stated how I feel 4/6 chivalry needs a nerf multiple times. It is not a hidden agenda by any means. What blazing does is attempt to nerf 4/6 on templates he fights against but wants to keep his in tact. That would be the one with the agenda. I said any secondary skill should lower it which includes busido and ninjitsu (which I have). So, yeah, I'd be nerfing my own template, smart guy.
That wasn't why. There were very few chiv mages before pub 25, because IT WASN'T NEEDED due to no FC cap on mages. The real reason for the cap was because 5/6 casting was overpowered as ****. But the devs of the time knew that allowing a magery-invested character to have heals at the speed of 4/6 would be a problem, so they capped it at 2/6 for anyone above 69.9 Magery.
This seems like a nice balanced solution. It will make parry characters more killable without destroying the 4/6 template. And yeah nobody was complaining about 4/6 chiv characters without parry. Also this method wouldn't negatively affect 4/6 chiv characters without Holy Fist or Parry. As a grey wolf has pointed out, not all chiv characters have Holy Fist and Parry. Why do they deserved to be nerfed at all? We want more diversity, not the opposite.
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I like how wrestle with chiv seems to be overpowered but having evasion, confidence to heal on the run, a lesser Hiyru with a ton of hp, and ability to use any special is ok. Either chiv is broken or it's not. Kiss of death has come off insanely bias in this thread. My advice to him is get better at the game and you won't have to have a hidden agenda to nerf your oppositions templates while maintaining yours. I'm willing to meet in the middle and make it 2/6 casting and cut fist damage in half if you have Ninja or Bushido. Which is my main template so I'm willing to nerf myself yet he isn't? His changes leave his template alone and only nerfs his competition a player like him will never be taken seriously on statics because everything he posts is pure bias.
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Maybe before asking for additional "nerfs", such as changing 4/6 chivalry, we should wait for the existing proposals (the ones here: In Testing: Combat Changes, Doom Artifact Upgrade – Ultima Online) to go into effect on the live servers and focus on those ones.
If you nerf/change too much in one publish, it's going to cause a lot more chaos than anticipated. The grass isn't always greener...
If you nerf/change too much in one publish, it's going to cause a lot more chaos than anticipated. The grass isn't always greener...
I have zero issues with the way it is right now. I just find it funny how someone is so terrified they are trying to nerf some skills but not others when it comes to playing a 4/6 chiv character. You either leave it alone or nerf it all.
It's a real sad era of UO where people are trying to nerf everything others play while keeping their own templates intact I'm willing to meet in the middle for any template everything I played is getting affected by this publish and I'm fine with it it's all about adapting some people just play scared though and makes any change a huge issue.
This is very true. It is not easy to predict how all these things will work out. With too many changes, it might just wreck the game and make it more difficult to fix it later on.
Uh, no. Parry itself is only 35% blocking.
4/6 couples with wrestling and parry is the problem. And yes 35 damage in 1 second is considerable offense along with people adding secondary skills to boost damage output with no repercussion.
For guy who knows all about game mechanics, I'm surprised you'd even offer this up as a suggestion.
I don't think wrestle with chiv is very over-powered, and I've made that case several times. But with all of these offensive nerfs, I think it probably will be a little over-powered on the defense side, and for the sake of making the game more fun to play, I think it could use a slight nerf defensively. Nerfing Parry wouldn't be a nerf against it solely, it would nerf all characters with parry, and 5% isn't a major nerf, but it does balance things a bit more. Also, making shields disarm-able isn't meant to target 4/6 wrestle parry chiv chars, but it would balance ALL characters with wrestle parry a bit more. These two nerfs combined might be slightly significant nerfs to the wrestle parry chiv character, but nothing game breaking.
And in regards to what you said about the bushido parry chiv char, yeah, it is very good defensively as well, but not as good as the wrestle parry chiv character, because it can be disarmed. My proposed changes will not change that fact, the wrestle parry chiv char will still have a better defense, because the 5% parry nerf will nerf both of them, and in regards to shields being disarm-able, even when a shield is disarmed, the character will still have a 50% defense chance, where as a character with a weapon will have what? 5%? My suggestions aren't game-breaking at all, and still leave the class as a viable class to play. Powerful defense, moderate offense.
Even if you get disarmed you still have an ability to heal on the run something wrestlers don't. Really the only weakness of Chiv is you actually have to stop to heal yourself much like magery the evasion characters throw that out the window. So really I wouldn't say one is more over powered than the other each have advantages and disadvantages. I have no issue with a parry nerf if that is the direction they want to go as long as it's in line with bushdio parry also getting the toned down.
Just remove holy fist. It was a horrible implementation in the first place. Give chiv some PvM related mastery and call it a day.
Eh, there's a 20 second timer on evasion.
67.5% blocking with 4/6 casting is an issue worth looking into.
No. That's only because the developers always make extreme changes, and always over-power one thing, while nerfing the **** out of something that was just overpowered before. They go back and forth like a sea-saw (like they are right now). If instead, you work from the margin, and you actually know what you're doing, then you can make a lot of changes, and even the critics will eventually come around.
The bushido template you mentioned has a severe downside of being disarmed. This lowers the defense chance, most of the offense and in most cases they lose 1FC.
There is no current downside to a wrestle parry fister other than a lack of offense.
It's great when templates have positive output. It's when there's no drawbacks that it could become an issue.
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I offered it because I know exactly what I'm talking about. Parry might only be 35%, but if you add that to the already 50% chance to miss, it comes out to 67.5%, which is pretty substantial, and makes it where the only way you can kill a parry mage is with super hard hits and some luck. If you reduce the chance from 35% to 30%. then it lowers it to a 65% chance. That's it. Not breaking. But you need to start at the margin and see how it works out. I personally think that if you couple this with the ability to disarm shields, it will do a lot to balance the game, particularly when a lot of people carry fc/fcr on their shields- and if it needs to be nerfed more, we can re-examine that and decide in the future.
They also have an ability to heal on the run. something wrestlers don't.
True, but that is easily disrupt-able, particularly when they are disarmed; and wrestle chiv chars will also have a much better defense chance when their shield is disarmed (50%), and the utility that 69% magery affords them (not that it's much).
Well that just comes with the territory of wanting to be able to evade, confidence, having a hiyru with a lot more hp than a horse, and having weapons that are doing a lot of damage. I personally don't see a single rational argument for why one should be nerfed at not the other. You either leave them alone or you completely nerf Chiv both of which I will be fine with. This Kiss of Death guy just seems to have an agenda and it's really disappointing to see a guy who tells guys who wanted novas nerfed to adapt and learn pvp but he's not willing to do it himself.
There is no room in this community for such bias agendas when it comes to balancing out a pvp game. It's a real shame some guys are just scared.
Yeah, I'm aware of the blocking, I offered the information a few posts above yours.
I disagree that parry is the issue because even if you nerfed it down to a 60% blocking chance, the fact they still have 4/6 and can spit 35 points at you approximately every second is an issue. Before holy fist no one cared, because there was little to no offense to the template.
I'm okay with seeing shields disarmed. Not much argument to bad had against it since disarming any other weapon skill drops blocking to 0%, aside from wrestling.
Yea, it is either an all or nothing approach. If magery has a focus list, chiv should also.
Except magery focus spec affects SDI, not FC. Why should they follow the same rules? One is a mage skill and the other is a warrior skill. Why don't non focused mages face a FC penalty? Also if it followed the same rules, you should not be able to have more than 30 magery. As it is now, you can have 60ish magery with no penalty.
I think we already have tons of new changes. I think in the future shields could be disarmable. For now anyways I think we should play and close this thread. Too many trollers atm
Seems like you are very interested in preserving a section of the 4/6 chiv while nerfing the other. I'm not really sure I can make someone with an intentional bias understand WHY it should be an all or nothing approach. So, with that being said, can you explain why Holy Fist was a good installment in the first place? Necro vs Chiv was the basis of the class, that was when necro was relevant. Now, necro got a slight buff but nowhere near the same as chiv did in the current loot pack. So, not only can you cast at 4/6 with no cool-downs, but you can also hit every single cap you need. Why then, was holy fist even considered in the first place? I fail to see how a 28-34dmg offensive spell was given to the games strongest defensive casting school.
As @Kiss Of Death is claiming that Chiv is a warrior's 'skill'. So, with that in mind you have access to whatever specials 'warrior's' have (in any combination you want) along with max hpr/hpi/great stats/15+mr/40-55lmc/special move bonus/50-80EP and 4/6 casting in the following: Bushido, Chivalry, Ninjitsu, Spellweaving spells and Bard Masteries.
So, I am anxious to hear your reasoning as to why Holy fist (1.5s cast 28-34 dmg) was a great implementation to begin with.
I didn't want either of the Temps nerfed. I only pointed out the hiprocracy in the people wanting to nerf chivalry if you have bushido. Is it a coincidence these people play wrestle fisters? Lmao. C'mon now.
It seems you're very confused so let me help you out. The people that are complaining about Chiv are the Bushido people. All the wrestlers are saying is we're fine if you nerf us as long as you're nerfing the bushido guys as well. It's not the other way around glad to clear things up for you!
No I did not say anything about wrestle fisters before you started your campaign to nerf bush/chiv.
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