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[Throwing] Uber PVM throwing template

Discussion in 'UO Warrior' started by elspeth, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. elspeth

    elspeth Seasoned Veteran

    hey guys. I keep hearing about whammy, mystic thrower, wraith thrower and how they can outdamage a sampire but can't tank.

    I was thinking about looking into creating one but I realized I need to know a few things.

    1. Are the 3 listed above different names for the same template or are they different templates?
    2. what would be basic examples of this uber damage build. I don't think I see a single one in the stickied builds thread though there are plenty of throwers and I can't seem to remember seeing one any of the times I've seen the type mentioned. My impression is that it is throwing with mysticism and necro and ss. Is that right?
    3. Can you do archery instead of throwing and still do uber damage?
    4. Would it be viable to use imbuing as support skill instead of focus or useless since you would need the mana regen of focus?
    5. Is throwing like archery where parry is useless?

    This is what I imagine the temp would be
    120 throwing
    120 tactics
    120 imbue/focus
    x myst
    x necro (low for wraith form?)
    x ss (high for wraith form?)
    120? bushido?
  2. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie

    It's only the whammy thrower that can really out damage a sampire. The whammy melee template uses cursed weapon to leach life.

    The reason the whammy thrower works is because you can throw a soul glaive at max and it's the highest damaging weapon in the game- because it comes with the nice special Armor Ignore.

    I think my template is something like:
    Throwing 120
    Tactics 120
    Anatomy 120
    Chivalry 120
    Bushido 120
    Necromancy 40
    Spirit Speak 100

    That's 740 skill points, with 20 coming from jewelry--- it's been a long time since I played him.
    kRUXCg7 likes this.
  3. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie

    They are mostly different, the whammy and wraith thrower don't use mysticism. It's all about damage. Soul Glaive at max speed with constant armor ignore is sick.

    no, take out mysticism... there is a thread-
    http://vboards.stratics.com/uo-warrior/209125-throwing-wammy.html

    Wraith archer can do a lot of damage with like a comp bow, but not nearly as much.

    You could... but I would prefer to use focus because of the mana/stamina regen, especially when your target runs out of mana (for long lasting champ type creature mostly)

    pretty much
    kRUXCg7 likes this.
  4. elspeth

    elspeth Seasoned Veteran

    Hmm. why 120 chivalry? Isn't it hard keeping up karma when you are constantly doing leech weapon?
  5. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator Staff Moderator

    Look for a post by LORD GOD called "Wammy Thrower". This is the seminal post on the wraith thrower template.

    I use this template:

    120 Throwing
    115 Bushido
    100 Tactics
    100 Anatomy
    100 Healing
    85 Chivalry
    60 SS
    40 Necro

    There are several variations, but all chain AI with a soul glaive and leech back mana in wraith form. I use healing as my primary healing method and curse weapon only as required for massive life leech (but hurts karma).
    kRUXCg7 likes this.
  6. elspeth

    elspeth Seasoned Veteran

    ok. Thanks much for the replies guys.
  7. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie

    For a whammy, sure, but for a thrower, you rarely have to use cursed weapon. At least, I don't.
    kRUXCg7 likes this.
  8. elspeth

    elspeth Seasoned Veteran

    Hmm. okay, what's the difference between a whammy and a thrower? And I was just thinking that I might remake my old necro into a wraith thrower or something and then discovered that throwing is apparently gargoyle only? how rude!
    kRUXCg7 likes this.
  9. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie

    A whammy, to me- is a sampire that uses cursed weapon to heal and stays in wraith form to leach mana so they can consistently AI. The negative is that a whammy cannot ride a swampy.

    A thrower, is just that a thrower. They are very similar to a whammy, except that they don't melee.

    And yes, throwing is gargoyle only.
  10. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator Staff Moderator

    These are slang terms.

    "Wammy" = Wraith Samurai.

    Samurais for some reason were given the slang "sammy".

    I use the term Wraith Thrower because I like how it sounds better. But it is correct to call it a Wammy Thrower too because I the template uses bushido and wraith form. A traditional Wammy is how NuSair describes it... an alternative to the sampire using a melee weapon in wraith form.
  11. silent

    silent Lore Keeper

    Since we're on the topic what goes on a soul glaive at minimum SSI, HSL, HLL for a wammy thrower? Also I'm guessing you don't go toe to toe you're moving like an archer?
  12. Gorbs

    Gorbs Sage

    I always take HML over HLL
  13. silent

    silent Lore Keeper

    For a wammy? I didn't think they needed HML...
  14. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie

    It's not a requirement, but if the creature you are beating on runs out of mana, then you don't get any mana from being in wraith form. It becomes a problem when you have multiple players in wraith form beating on the same creature.
  15. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator Staff Moderator

    I run the following 2 weapons for my wraith throwers:

    Glaive 1 (normal use)
    30 SSI
    40 DI
    HSL
    HML
    Slayer

    Glaive 2 (for monsters with lots of mana like Slasher)
    30 SSI
    40 DI
    HSL
    HLD
    Slayer

    I use #1 weapons way more than #2 weapons.
    kRUXCg7 likes this.
  16. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins. Stratics Pro

    Gilfane

    I'm building a thrower and have never used one, so I found this thread and figure it has a lot of good info in it and thought I'd ask my questions here and add your responses to the already good content.

    For basics, what Str/Dex/Int stats do you guys run?
    What would your template be today to max out a thrower for PvM?
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
  17. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie

    I'd max out my dex and str, keeping a minimum of intel, getting most of my mana from the suit. The template would be the same as I posted previously:

    Throwing 120
    Tactics 120
    Anatomy 120
    Chivalry 120
    Bushido 120
    Necromancy 40
    Spirit Speak 100

    I don't run healing because I have rarely needed it, between Close Wounds/Confidence/Spirit Speak- really haven't needed it that often. And if I have to, hit cursed weapon from time to time.
    startle likes this.
  18. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman

    Maybe someone could answer me this?

    Strength for a wammy is just for range correct?

    Also doesn`t SS effect how much you leach? So having 120 would be optimum for leaching?

    And if your not hugely caring about peak damage,isn`t anatomy optional if your not skilling in healing?

    I ask these because I play on Siege,so am looking for a lil different template with a lil flexability.I`m lookin at something like this:


    60 necro
    120 SS
    120 Throw
    120 Tactics
    85 Chiv

    Lookin for more of a burst damage type. Mortal wound/AI than switch up to cyclone for moving shot...... ya know for when someone may try to rain on my parade!
    Leaves me open for other stuff as well,depending on the situation.

    Any critiques or advice? Thanks!
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
    startle likes this.
  19. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie

    Strength does affect the range, but it also affects the sweet spot as well as increases damage.

    SS does affect it, but you can only leach mana to your cap- so any extra you leach is wasted. And once your target is out of mana... you don't leach anymore.

    Again, anatomy is extra damage. For me, the template is about doing the most possible damage.

    And really, it will do more burst damage than what you are proposing. But, that is a matter of preference.
  20. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins. Stratics Pro

    Gilfane

    Great, great information! Thank you both for helping me understand my new (building) Thrower... Mostly played Bards and Mages these past 14 years, so all this "Combat" stuff is new and actually, pretty exciting ( for me anyway )...
    Any/all suggestions or other "words of wisdom" greatly appreciated for sure.....
  21. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins. Stratics Pro

    Gilfane

    I have no clue, but if I ever decide to go over to the "dark side" - I want to be on your team.... ;)
  22. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman

    LOL... Still learnin myself. Never been a warrior type,got lots of mages,tamers and bards. Fighters just never been my playstyle until lately.

    Also never been much of a pvp`r,so learnin what I can,where I can.

    Thanks for the info as well everyone. :thumbup:

    I know such a build would be gimp as hell on production shards,but am thinkin bout a couple weird builds that could be fun and effective against would be raiders but still good enough to farm non boss creatures or low level bosses.
  23. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins. Stratics Pro

    Gilfane

    Well it would be GREAT for all of us, if you could find the time to keep us posted on your opponants and adventures - and how you faired, what you've learned... I for one would love to hear....
  24. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins. Stratics Pro

    Gilfane

    Well, I'm far from an expert in these matters, but I think the build would be just fine on any production shard... **Hopes NuSair or Obsidian comes back to comment....**
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  25. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie

    To be honest, throwing is so out of whack right now, between the Gargoyle's HCI capping at 50 and the Soul Glaive being the most damaging weapon (Damage Per Second with good SSI), it's going to be fine either way really. In my build, I just want the highest possible damage, which is why it has 120 anatomy. But really, you are going to be fine either way.

    After publish 81... not sure yet. But, it should still be good.
  26. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator Staff Moderator

    I started reading this thread and was very confused at first. I didn't recall replying to this within the last few days... and then I realized it was started exactly a year ago in Feb 2012 !

    My wraith thrower is still the same as he was a year ago. I have toyed with a few template variations, but my primary template remains the one I posted above. My technique to heal is a little different than NuSair because I always use a bandage first and save Curse Weapon, Close Wounds, Confidence, and even a healing stone (using garg racial mysticism ability) for emergencies. While fighting bosses, I use curse weapon and bandages nearly non-stop, but then regain Karma post-boss when it falls below 2000.

    That said, I too am watching the Pub 81 proposed changes. The latest Soul Glavie change leaves it as a 4.0s weapon and reduces the damage output from 18-22 to 16-20. This will reduce the AI damage which will in turn reduce the mana leeched in wraith form. At this time, I think I will be able to continue running my character much as he is today with 60 SS and still leech sufficient mana. With 60 SS I leech 12% of my damage output as mana (assuming the foe has mana). With AIs over 200, that fills my mana pool with nearly every throw. However, once the pub gets finalized I will re-look my suit and weapons and make tweaks. My current suit was built pre-reforging so I want to add 5 HCI on one piece from a lesser reforge and then consider putting 15 Damage Eater in the suit as well. I still believe the suit and template are maximized at 180+ stamina and 45 SSI. This gets you a 1.5s throw rate which should still be the standard with the proposed pub 81 Soul Glaive.

    Mitlzplik, you asked some questions specific to Siege. In my opinion, healing is even more important on Siege than any other shard. I personally would not rely on close wounds, confidence, and spirit speak in any PvP encounter. I think you will want bandages which also means you need anatomy and 140+ dexterity for 4s heals. The only way I would rely on Chiv for PvP healing would be with FC 3 or 4. I think 120 SS is overkill for mana leech and most will be lost unless you have a huge mana pool. But IMO, the hardest part of playing a wraith thrower on Siege is the suit. You need 40 SSI min. Without insurance, I think you would have to acquire a ring/brace with 10 SSI or a Breatsplate of the Berserker and that would need to be your Siege blessed item. I couldn't imagine running a wraith thrower with less than 40 SSI and 150+ stamina (which gives you a 1.75s throw rate). I personally don't use items I cannot easily replace on Siege and since my crafter is still in work there, I never got my thower where I wanted him so he sits dormant.
    kRUXCg7 likes this.
  27. Arcades

    Arcades Sage

    I run a variation but its a sampire thrower with 100 necro, 100 SS, 120 tact/anat with quite a bit of +skills. I have the mobility of flying plus a little life leech which goes a long way with vampiric embrace. When i'm low on life, I will toggle AI and leech back to full life on 1-hit. For the tougher situations i will cast CW which lasts 30s and after a few momentum strikes being in the middle of things, everything dies and im still 100% life. Its great for champ spawns and single target champs. I have 100% on my suit, max SSI, and i use 5mod (no di) soul glaives so i can have slayer/mana/stam/ss/HLD or HLA. Its wicked, and puts my regular sampire to shame.
  28. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins. Stratics Pro

    Gilfane

    Lol...
    I purposely posted in this thread because of the wealth of good information from several sources regarding the PvM Thrower template... Info on SSI, HSL, HLL, HML for Throwers, along with more good info on the current weapon of choice for Throwers - the Soul Glaive. In addition, there's also good info regarding the definition of "Wammy" thrower and the difference between that and a standard "thrower".. All of that plus the fact that the title "Uber PVM throwing template" is good for future searches. What really sealed it was that some of the best information from a year ago has come from NuSair and Obsidian who I know to be still currently "active" here on Stratics. I thought my questions would best be put here to continue an already very good thread for Throwers....

    It will be interesting to see what actually happens to Throwing once Pub 81 is finalized... And hoping that you guys will continue to come here and post your findings...
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
    kRUXCg7 likes this.
  29. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins. Stratics Pro

    Gilfane

    Ok, I just got back from 4 days at the Acid Slugs and my feet are killing me.... Standing on a rock block for that much time is really hard on the feet.... The good news is that my Throwing is now 120... Yeah!

    So my current template stands at:
    [​IMG]

    Now, it's been a long time since I needed to raise Tactics to 120 - in fact, on 4 accounts active for over 14 years now, I'm pretty sure I've only done it once before - and it's been so long I can't even remember what char I did it with... I just know it's not on the account my new Thrower is on...

    I know from reading here, that Tactics requires fighting mobs that are within 25 points of where I am in order to gain - and assume that at high levels (like where I am to where I'm going) the gains are going to come pretty slow....

    So... Let's assume that as an active player for 14 years now, that I have trained virtually every skill to it's max - and I've done that (or close to that) for 4 accounts... Let's assume that because it's true... I'm at a point now where I'm doing things simply because I haven't done them before - like creating a Thrower. Especially now that a Thrower template can compete with any Sampire (which I already have) - and that's assuming that the skill won't be completely nerf'd by Pub 81. (Besides, I'm trying to get my grandson more interested in UO and he loves the look of a Gargoyle - so I'm making one that will just "Take his breath away"...) lol... My question then, is what mobs do I choose from at this level of Tactics (110) that will require the least amount of defense on the part of my Thrower as he raises Tactics to 120...

    Yes, you heard that right, I'm asking you for advice on being as lazy as possible while I tackle this final skill, which is why I went to the trouble of mentioning the enormous amount of time I have taken over that past 14 years raising skills on 27 characters - to try and avoid the inevitable, ever-so-non-productive "You need to just go out and enjoy fighting stuff for the experience, the gold, the whatever..." troll... While that has been my style for most of these last 14 years, I'm just at the point where I want to work the skill as quickly as possible, with the least amount of defensive effort on my part.

    So, given that, you guys have any suggestions for me? Pls....;)
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
    kRUXCg7 likes this.
  30. kRUXCg7

    kRUXCg7 Sage

    startle, I really support your question. Actually, I'd give you the desired answer right away if..... if I knew it. Just kidding, I know the answer, but I am sure you won't like it: Scrolls Of Transcendence.
  31. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie

    I've skilled it up in 2 places. But, each time I used a cyclone, because it does the least damage and is the fastest weapon.

    First is twisted wield. if you can get the get a paragon and discorded, so much the better.

    Second is Navery, if there are other people there to mainly tank her.

    When I was in Twisted Wield I used scroll of alacrity, because you are swinging at max for the full time of the scroll, so even ONE gain really makes it worth it, and usually I'd get 3-5 gains.
  32. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator Staff Moderator

    I personally use highland bouras. Yes, you have to keep your distance, but they are slow and everyone drops a boura pelt. These sell reasonably well. I've hit 120 throwing on three chars there and 120 tactics/anatomy on one there. To get there, exit Ter Mur on the west side and then turn north. Go over the bridge. There is a little area where 5 or so spawn. If you keep you distance you can fight one at a time.

    Concur with NuSair on the cyclone for training. You want to do the least damage possible so you are constantly throwing. The boomerang has too small of a range to be effective even for training.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
    kRUXCg7 likes this.
  33. kRUXCg7

    kRUXCg7 Sage

    The Highland Bouras really work well. I trained archery there last year. Put anatomy and tactics on a soulstone for a minimum of damage.

    Edit: The Peacemaker's Fun:
    Ok, I remembered what I did for a even better performance:
    I added Musicianship and Peacemaking from Soul Stones. I targetted the peacemaking skills at a Highlands Boura and thus kept it from chasing me. As you might know targetted peacemaking sometimes break very fast, especially whilst attacking the target. But it still helps you protect and conserve your wings. With the boura standing on one spot you can even take advantage of the higher speed of the boomerang (a whopping 2s): Less damage (so the boura will live longer) and higher speed.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  34. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins. Stratics Pro

    Gilfane

    Outstanding.... Thx much to the three of you... Turns out this account has a bard, so I'm off to peace some boura's... Appreciate your taking the time to respond....;)
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  35. kRUXCg7

    kRUXCg7 Sage

    Depending on your current skill you might want to juggle around with +skill jewelry and / or or by discording your boura so you are at an Optimal Difficulty level (according to the Crystal Ball Of Knowledge). Another item that gives you + throwing skill is the Unforgiven Veil. High Plains Bouras average at 100.5 - 111.4 (according to UOGuide), so your optimal skill range could probably be adjusted accordingly starting as low as maybe 50ish skill after discording the boura. I just tried attacking bouras myself with my thrower at master level and I do as little damage as 5 points so a High Plains Boura will last a nice couple of minutes.

    Macros:
    I don't know about EC, but in Classic Client key-macros might help you:
    1. SelectNearest + Mobile <-- This means you might also kill the occasional jack rabbit or horse, so please don't forget your heating stand and a bottle of wine.
    2. AttackSelectedTarget
    This macro is very useful after if combined with your Peacemaking + Last Target combo: After using peacemaking the boura will no longer be greyed as an enemy and thus you will no longer throw your weapon.

    I am not sure if a tamed boura (e.g. on a second account) that is being healed occasionally would be more fun.
  36. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie

    I've only used it for fishing, but maybe that skill statue thing would be of assistance here.
  37. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins. Stratics Pro

    Gilfane

    I knew I had one of the Crystal Balls somewhere, and I finally found it... Here's a pic of what it said about one Highland Boura:

    [​IMG]

    As you can see, I've gained 1.6 Tactics in about 2.5 hrs of almost non-stop Highland Boura throwing. Notice it says that Tactics Difficulty is Easy... At my current Tactics level ( 114.0 ) I would think that a gain of 1.6 in 2.5hrs is pretty decent, right?
  38. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator Staff Moderator

    Yes, I think you are doing well. Keep it up!
  39. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins. Stratics Pro

    Gilfane

    Thx Obsidian... Just hit 115 and realized I'm "topped" at that... Can't find a Legendary scroll on Pacific... dang...
  40. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins. Stratics Pro

    Gilfane

    According to UOGuide a Cyclone has a secondary special move called Infused Throw, but when I look at my book it doesn't show up... Don't secondary moves show there?
  41. kRUXCg7

    kRUXCg7 Sage

    hm it does not? Are you using the purple book to the lower right?

    Thanks for adopting my peacemaking idea! And thank you a lot for supporting the superior 2D client! :-D
    Congratulations on reaching 115. As far as I can tell you are doing everything right.
  42. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins. Stratics Pro

    Gilfane

    Today it's there, go figure....

    Oh and btw, for anyone reading this thread in the future.... Using the Highland Boura's to gain Tactics at high levels works just great.... See the pic below:
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    You'll notice that I've "borrowed" Peacemaking/Music from my Bard for this (per kRUXCg7's excellent suggestion) ... It's not that the Boura's move fast (in fact they're quite slow as you may know), but having to constantly move while training is annoying - and even tho' they "break" thru peace after a bit, it's still much easier with it... Just recast/rinse/repeat....
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
    kRUXCg7 likes this.
  43. Gorbs

    Gorbs Sage

    First, since your gargoyle can fly, you didn't need to stand on the rock at the acid slugs.

    I suggest imbuing a reptile slayer soul glaive with hit cold area, mana leech, and stamina leach. Go to the cold blood spawn in Destard and just farm Rikktor until your tactics is 120.
  44. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins. Stratics Pro

    Gilfane

    Thanks Gorbs, appreciate the input.... But you missed my last post... I'm at 120 now, but thanks anyway for taking the time to respond...
  45. Gorbs

    Gorbs Sage

    Ahh, reading is fundamental. Glad you hit 120, sorry for being late to the party.
  46. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins. Stratics Pro

    Gilfane

    We're just happy you came!..... ;)

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