Training Honor Virtue for a Tamer : Where ??

[popps]

I have been trying to get my Honor Virtue up for my tamer but I can't seem to find a good place, really.

At Swoops it was ok, but only until I reached follower. Now it does not seem to go up much if at all......

Then I gave a look at Succubus, but all the locations where they are, the Fan Dojo, the Blood Dungeon and the Sanctuary have all annoying side spawn which make it a pain.

Then I went to Trasher but unless there is other players around farming Coli it is also a pain with the annoying silver serpents, dryads and so forth. not to mention that the pet ball does Not work there so if the pet dies because of Coli one has to exit, summon the pet, get another bone machete to get in. A royal pain.

Besides, the respawn rate is ridicolous there. Anything respawns right away without even leaving time to loot the corpse. It makes no sense whatsoever to have a respawn so fast without leaving time for players to loot the corpses....

Is there a place in the entire game where a tamer can get the Honor Virtue up in a reasonable time without all that annoying side spawn ?

 

[Farsight]

You need to learn the art of leading the spawn away from where you're playing.

i.e. If you put Coil up in Abscess' little cavern, then you should have no trouble with Thrasher.

If you clear out the minotaur, you should have little trouble with Miasma

If you move the hellcats to the demon area, Succubi in the blood dungeon are a cake-walk

If you move the single samurai, the succubi in the dojo are just as simple.

If you ... well, you don't have to do anything for Balrons by Chaos shrine or in the blood dungeon.

I typically use Thrasher if I want to do it the easy way, since he's really easy to kill and the spawn is typically taken away by people who are farming Mel-Blessings.

 

[popps]

I should have said that I have ordinary armor, nowhere an all 70s...

It is probably in between 30s and 40.
Just to make you an example, only walking to get into the Bllood dungeon if I run into some skeleton mages and Imps get me down to a sliver of health........

My template has a problem dealing with multiple spawn, even minor. If they are more than 2 or 3 and casting, they can easily kill me with low resistance armor and no magic resistance skill.

That is, only a few hits and I am down. That is why I am looking for a Monster with hardly any side spawn that is also good for raising Honor up.

By the way, I see you mention Miasma. I thought Miasma was like swoops. And I do not gain much at all at swoops.

What other options are there to gain in Honor ?

 

[Taylor]

Thrasher in the Blighted Grove works well.

 

[Harlequin]

I have 30ish resists across the board on my tamer as well.

For your requirements, I would recommend the succubus on the lowest level of the dojo. The one that spawns in the really big area with another deamon.

It's big enough that the succubus normally spawn far away enough for you to loot in peace.

You just need to lure the daemon away to the next room (the one with 2 fan dancers). I trust you know how to lure away other mobs. Easily done if you are a tamer bard. If you are tamer mage, use invis. If you are a tamer warrior, use invis pots.


The succubus + ronin room on the 2nd floor works too. Just lure away the ronin. However I find the one on the 3rd floor easier as you can't bard ronins.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

The succubus + ronin room on the 2nd floor works too. Just lure away the ronin. However I find the one on the 3rd floor easier as you can't bard ronins.

If I am lazy and not particularly motivated I use that one and just move the Ronin out of the room.

But honestly, I find these two to be the easiest with a Greater Dragon.

Thrasher is easy and I am not clear what the OP is doing that brings other things into thrashers spawning zone as when I go in, I may get a straggler of something (as long as it isn't the Hydra thing), just kill it first then Thrasher park myself close to the sw cornor of where Thrasher Spawns nearish to the Lilly Pads or what ever they are (as in the Vegetation is to the west of me and the Mountain Zone is to the East), sic the GD on Thrasher and pull the GD back to me to fight him. I never see any walk ins, unless some one comes into the zone and disturbs things.

The Balron at the bottom of the Fan Dancer DoJo is my favorite place for honor. Just make sure the GD is in Follow mode so it wont attack the Balron until you tell it to. Let the Balron target the GD then Honor The Balron or if things work out well Just Honor the Balron and send in the GD.

My Stealther does this better than my Peacer but either one has no issues with any of the 3 mentioned mobs.

 

[popps]

For your requirements, I would recommend the succubus on the lowest level of the dojo. The one that spawns in the really big area with another deamon.

It's big enough that the succubus normally spawn far away enough for you to loot in peace.

Thank you for the advice.

Is there a better way to get down there ? I tried running riding the Cu Sidhe but eventually I get killed by spell casters.
I noticed that they can hit me even if I have run off screen or behind a wall. Hell, I was even hit after climbing down a stairs from a NPC who was UP the stairs....

Forget about line of sight and other casting rules, it seems NPCs have NO RULE when it comes to casting against players.....

 

[Scarab]

My suit is fairly pedestrian as well resist-wise, but I generally do ok in most situations as long as I remain aware of my surroundings. And move fast.

I favor the succubus with the ronin on the second level of the dojo for honor. I lead the ronin away and go to town. I will sometimes bring a GD if I'm thinking of also farming dancers or the balron to break up the monotony. However, if it's strictly succubi then I always take my Cu, as it targets the succubi's resistance hole. Plus it's much easier to speedily ride down there than have to deal with dragging an overeager GD past all that other spawn.

If I feel like losing some insurance, I'll mess around with the Blood Dungeon. Since succubi and balrons are the same fame level (thus give the same honor), and I find that succubi are safer in the dojo and fall down a lot faster (with a Cu), I usually end up there.

Edit: I chalk up the delayed NPC spell hits to lag (despite being on cable with a quad core)

 

[popps]

Alright, I went to Stratics Hunter's Guide and used the advanced search to locate all MOBs with a level 5 Fame.

Do I read correctly ?

Balron and Succubus are the same fame level as, for example, Arctic Ogre Lord, Blood Elemental, Cu Sidhe, Daemon, Dragon, Elder Gazer, Exodus Minion, Exodus Overseer, Lich Lord, Miasma, Nightmare, Ogre Lord, Oni, Poison Elemental, Rotting Corpse, Rune Beetle, Swoop, Titan, White Wyrm, Yamandon??

The Trasher is not even in that list !!

Yet, when talking about raising Honor i keep hearing that, for example, Swoop takes only to follower, that the best gains are from Succubus, Balron, Trasher....

Something here does not add up to me.

If all those Mobs are the same level 5 Fame then Honoring any of them should bring home the same honor gains. Yet, players' experience says differently and suggests only "some" from that list are worth to be Honored (not to mention Trasher which is not even in that list...).

What gives ? Am I missing anything here ?

Perhaps is not Fame what determins the Honor gains ?

If anyone can explain more I'd appreciate.
Thanks.

The list that came out reads :

# Abyssmal Horror
# Acid Elemental
# Ancient Lich
# Ancient Wyrm
# Arctic Ogre Lord
# Balron
# Barracoon the Piper
# Betrayer
# Blackthorn Juggernaut
# Blood Elemental
# Bone Daemon
# Cu Sidhe
# Daemon
# Dark Father
# Dark Steed
# Darknight Creeper
# Dragon
# Dread Warhorse
# Elder Gazer
# Evil Mage Lord
# Exodus Minion
# Exodus Minion Lord
# Exodus Overseer
# Fire Steed
# Flesh Renderer
# Gargoyle Destroyer
# Greater Dragon
# Hiryu
# Ice Fiend
# Ilhenir the Stained
# Impaler
# Juka Lord
# Juka Mage
# Juka Warrior
# Kraken
# Lady of the Snow
# Leviathan
# Lich Lord
# Lord Oaks
# Meer Eternal
# Mephitis
# Miasma
# Neira the Necromancer
# Nightmare
# Ogre Lord
# Oni
# Ophidian Matriarch
# Plague Beast
# Poison Elemental
# Rikktor
# Rotting Corpse
# Rune Beetle
# Semidar
# Serado the Awakened
# Serpentine Dragon
# Shadow Knight
# Shadow Wyrm
# Silvani
# Silver Steed
# Skeletal Dragon
# Sphynx
# Succubus
# Swoop
# Tentacles of the Harrower
# Terathan Avenger
# The Harrower
# The True Harrower
# Titan
# Twaulo of the Glade
# Wanderer of the Void
# White Wyrm
# Yamandon
# Yomotsu Elder

 

[popps]

By the way, just read the Honor Virtue web site on Stratics at (http://uo.stratics.com/php-bin/show_content.php?content=30532) and noticed this part...

Gaining Honor:

You can gain Honor by engaging in honorable combat with monsters or NPCs. You can do this by double-clicking the Honor icon on the Virtue gump and targeting an appropriate opponent. You will face your opponent, bow to them, and speak the words, “I honor you.”

You then must defeat your opponent in an honorable fashion.

Honorable combat is defined as:

* Allowing your opponent to damage you first.
* Engaging in one-on-one combat.
* Not using ranged weapons, unless you stay in the same spot where you honored your opponent, or you only damage your opponent while adjacent to them.
* Not allowing your pets or summoned creatures to help you during the battle.
* Avoiding the use of poison.


To engage an opponent in honorable combat, your opponent:

* Must be one that you can perform negative actions upon.
* Must be at full health.
* Must not already be honored by a nearby player.
* Must be close to you, in your line-of-sight, and have a clear path to you.


The amount of Honor you gain from defeating your opponent is determined by how closely you followed the above guidelines for honorable combat, as well as your opponent’s level of fame.

Not allowing a pet to help ?

Excuse me ?

 

[Tina Small]

Popps, I use greater dragons and hiryus for gaining honor.

Don't know if you noticed or not, but the Retribution shard had some nifty gates on it. One of them filled up your virtues to the Knight level.

I used honor to tame a greater dragon or two and then found out that at one dot below Knight level in honor, I was still able to gain in honor from killing greater dragons. I imagine other things may get you there faster, but it's an option you might want to explore.

Hiryu are also another option for gaining honor. Don't know if they'll take you to honor, but they should get you well on your way.

 

[popps]

Popps, I use greater dragons and hiryus for gaining honor.

Don't know if you noticed or not, but the Retribution shard had some nifty gates on it. One of them filled up your virtues to the Knight level.

I used honor to tame a greater dragon or two and then found out that at one dot below Knight level in honor, I was still able to gain in honor from killing greater dragons. I imagine other things may get you there faster, but it's an option you might want to explore.

Hiryu are also another option for gaining honor. Don't know if they'll take you to honor, but they should get you well on your way.

Thanks, I am trying to understand how it works.

I mean, if all of those mobs are the same Fame level, level 5 that is, how come the Honor gains that players report are NOT the same ?

That is, that some mobs of that SAME list provide higher gains than other mobs still being in that same one list.......

Is there anything I am missing here ?

If they are all level 5 fame, then they should all equally provide the same gains.

Why it is not that ??

 

[Scarab]

If they are all level 5 fame, then they should all equally provide the same gains.

I don't think that's necessarily true. I get the impression that there are varied grades within the same level

 

[uoBuoY]

Level 5 Fame has a pretty broad range. I check a few 5s with these result:

Efreet -- Lvl 5 -- 10k Fame
Dark Father -- Lvl 5 -- 28k Fame

So you want the creature with the highest actual Fame that you can quickly kill in order to amass enough points to get a Fame gain. I took White Wyrms to Follower dot 6.

Re rules for gaining Fame...
Breaking any 1 or 2 or even 3 rules doesn't STOP you from gaining Fame. Each broken rule reduces the amount of Fame gained. How much? Only the Devs know.

 

[Barry Gibb]

I don't think that's necessarily true. I get the impression that there are varied grades within the same level

There is a range within the fame levels. I just tested this with my tamer. I do not gain any fame from killing Swoop, but I do gain alot of fame from killing balrons.

As uoBuoY pointed out, that is what the number in parenthesis, after the fame level, indicates.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Harlequin]

Thank you for the advice.

Is there a better way to get down there ? I tried running riding the Cu Sidhe but eventually I get killed by spell casters.
I noticed that they can hit me even if I have run off screen or behind a wall. Hell, I was even hit after climbing down a stairs from a NPC who was UP the stairs....

Forget about line of sight and other casting rules, it seems NPCs have NO RULE when it comes to casting against players.....

You are welcome


We will make use of precasting invis and safe spots. Getting down there:
1) Bring some GHeal pots (and a trapped box to break para if you want)

2) When you reach the ground floor entrance of the dojo, precast invis before you go down

3) Go down and if fan dancers are ambushing you at the entrance, invis yourself (hence the precasted invis)

4) Gallop all the way down the corridor and turn the next hallway until you are outside the horde minion room. This is a pretty safe spot. Invis yourself to break any aggro from any fan dancers in the previous 2 hallways. Heal up, then precast invis again

5) Charge all the way across the big room and go down to level 2. If in danger at any stage along the way, invis yourself to break aggro, then continue charging to level 2, otherwise, try not to use the precasted invis



6) First room on level 2 is a relatively safe spot, only headless spawn here. But there are times when the tougher mobs wander here. Hence why I say try to reserve your precast, invis yourself if ambushed by the tougher mobs. Dismount and have your cu take care or any tough spawn (you can ignore the headless, esp if you are using swords of prosperity). Now precast invis again

7) Charge all the way through the big room, turn down the corridor until you reach the small room on the north-eastern most corner.

8) 0 spawn safe room. Invis here to break any aggro. Heal up if damaged. Then precast invis again

9) Charge through the corridor, across the succubus+ronin room, into the next corridor, past the small daemon room. Stop just befor you go down the stairs

10) Invis yourself to break aggro, heal up, precast invis again.



11) Head down into the 3rd floor. This is the big room you want. Invis yourself if ambushed, unmount and let your cu take care of the mobs.

12) Lure away the Daemon (precast invis trick)



Notes: The method above is if your lag is ok. If you lag terribly, every time you need to invis, unmount and have the mobs target your cu. Then tell it to follow you while you make your way to the next checkpoint (remember to vet it). It has better resists and more HP than you do, and can take the brunt of the damage.

You can have your cu kill the mobs along the way too. But your main goal is the 3rd floor.

 

[Scarab]

a couple other quick tips, sorry if they're self-evident:

1. set Honor to a macro: invoke virtue, honor. that way you can honor your target quickly and then all kill, last target right after. if you try to use honor from the gump, you're gonna faceplant more often than not

2. make sure you stay a healthy distance outside the succubus AoE at all times, even when targeting her on the honor invocation. keep in mind that she'll start to move around as her health bottoms out and you don't want to get her aggro if she wanders close enough to get you into the AoE

3. make sure you have med and/or some MR as you'll be using greater heals instead of vet to keep your Cu's life bar up

 

[Harlequin]

Level 5 Fame has a pretty broad range. I check a few 5s with these result:

Efreet -- Lvl 5 -- 10k Fame
Dark Father -- Lvl 5 -- 28k Fame

So you want the creature with the highest actual Fame that you can quickly kill in order to amass enough points to get a Fame gain. I took White Wyrms to Follower dot 6.

Re rules for gaining Fame...
Breaking any 1 or 2 or even 3 rules doesn't STOP you from gaining Fame. Each broken rule reduces the amount of Fame gained. How much? Only the Devs know.

The fame levels are used to indicate which range of fame the mobs has. The actual amount of fame the mob has may vary. And level 5 includes anything above 10k (iirc) fame.



Although the amount of honor a mob has is link to it's fame, amount of honor a player gets is affected by more factors than fame.

Such as attacking with pets gets you less honor,
not being adjacent to the mob gets you less honor,
not remaining on the tile where you honored the mob gets you less honor.

 

[Nenime]

[...] Although the amount of honor a mob has is link to it's fame, amount of honor a player gets is affected by more factors than fame.

Such as attacking with pets gets you less honor,
not being adjacent to the mob gets you less honor,
not remaining on the tile where you honored the mob gets you less honor.

Thank you for this reminder. I knew but I forgot about it. In addition to weins201 advice about Fel Balrons I was able to finish Knight status very fast. Before that I never thought it could actually be possible to become Knight of Honor as a Tamer.

Again, thank you very much. Very helpful informations.

 

[popps]

a couple other quick tips, sorry if they're self-evident:

1. set Honor to a macro: invoke virtue, honor. that way you can honor your target quickly and then all kill, last target right after. if you try to use honor from the gump, you're gonna faceplant more often than not

2. make sure you stay a healthy distance outside the succubus AoE at all times, even when targeting her on the honor invocation. keep in mind that she'll start to move around as her health bottoms out and you don't want to get her aggro if she wanders close enough to get you into the AoE

3. make sure you have med and/or some MR as you'll be using greater heals instead of vet to keep your Cu's life bar up

Question.

Doesn't Honor require proximity for best gains ?

If one has to stay far away doesn't it means very poor gains in Honor ?

Is it worth it in the end then ?

 

[Harlequin]

Question.

Doesn't Honor require proximity for best gains ?

If one has to stay far away doesn't it means very poor gains in Honor ?

Is it worth it in the end then ?

Yes.

Definitely poorer, but succubus still have such high fame that even tamers can use them to get to knights. Personally, they are easier for me than Balrons.

Oh yes.

 

[uoBuoY]

When a monster spawns you have maybe up to 2 seconds before aggro. If I can I will get my pet between me and the target before Honoring. In that way I think I gain more Honor since I don't have to move. But who knows for sure?

 

[Pfloyd]

Yes.

Definitely poorer, but succubus still have such high fame that even tamers can use them to get to knights. Personally, they are easier for me than Balrons.

Oh yes.

the reason i love the ronin/succubus room in the dojo is it is the fastest spawn now for mobs. Fel got nerfed for speed. I used to love the balrons in hythloth but now its the succubus and a cu because it does cold damage and demon types dont like that.

cu and greaters can kill them just as fast but you can ride down with a cu. with disco it goes even faster. My flute of renewal usually is down 53 - 56 charges before i get my last dot back

I just try and stand still and not move but its not a huge difference...so what if it takes 10 more than the last time...

 

[Harlequin]

When a monster spawns you have maybe up to 2 seconds before aggro. If I can I will get my pet between me and the target before Honoring. In that way I think I gain more Honor since I don't have to move. But who knows for sure?

That's what I do too

However, if the succubus moves too close and I know it will nail me in it's AOE attack, I will move away, then just before my pet does the killing blow, run right up to the succubus.

The check of whether you are adjacent to the mob is done only when the mob dies.

 

[uoBuoY]

The check of whether you are adjacent to the mob is done only when the mob dies.

"* Not using ranged weapons, unless you stay in the same spot where you honored your opponent, or you only damage your opponent while adjacent to them."

That's 2 checks. I assume Tamers are similarly 2-checked.

 

[Asahina Yajinden]

i use oni besides being good fame, they have 1300- 1800 gold decnt jewelry, and an occassional decent weapon.

 

[weins201]

Fel respawn is faster then tram respawn and greater reward

There are a few places in Fel that you can have an Isolated Ballie al to yourself. ALOT FASTER HONOR gains than ANY Tram location. Ballies are SO much easier than Sucubi since they dont have area affect and you can stnad there and vet if needed.

if oyu are to meek to try fel they also have identical location in Tram that you can even recall into.

 

[Pfloyd]

Re: Fel respawn is faster then tram respawn and greater reward

There are a few places in Fel that you can have an Isolated Ballie al to yourself. ALOT FASTER HONOR gains than ANY Tram location. Ballies are SO much easier than Sucubi since they dont have area affect and you can stnad there and vet if needed.

if oyu are to meek to try fel they also have identical location in Tram that you can even recall into.

I used to do them in Fel and they are no longer faster than the dojo...even with double the points it takes longer time wise than a disco tamer and a cu against succubus. Fel dungeons used to spawn as soon as the monster died but they "fixed" that bug. I don't even have to heal my cu.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

All in all great advice.

The dojo is by far the easiest place to take care of your needs. Just lure the ronin out of the room and tuck yourself in a corner. If you do it just right, you can target the succubus each time she appears on screen AND not even really have to move.

The next trick is that you want to be close enough to your pet that you wont receive a penalty on your honor gain. Carrying a demon slayer spellbook is handy to cast a spell or two as she is about to die. Not to mention, having the pet do all the work will slow your gains anyways.

Doing it in this manner will almost always keep the mob in front of you if you have positioned yourself correctly. In this manner, you can stay behind the pet, yet still stay in front of the mob.

Having a descent suit as far as resists will help, since the whole point is to gain to knight of honor as quick as possible. Once you reach knight of honor, the decay rate is so slow that you never lose it. In fact I have only lost knight of honor if I invoked the virtue on myself in order to use it. I'm not sure if there really is a decay rate like the other virtues.

 

[gramarye]

All in all great advice.

The dojo is by far the easiest place to take care of your needs. Just lure the ronin out of the room and tuck yourself in a corner. If you do it just right, you can target the succubus each time she appears on screen AND not even really have to move.

The next trick is that you want to be close enough to your pet that you wont receive a penalty on your honor gain. Carrying a demon slayer spellbook is handy to cast a spell or two as she is about to die. Not to mention, having the pet do all the work will slow your gains anyways.

Doing it in this manner will almost always keep the mob in front of you if you have positioned yourself correctly. In this manner, you can stay behind the pet, yet still stay in front of the mob.

Having a descent suit as far as resists will help, since the whole point is to gain to knight of honor as quick as possible. Once you reach knight of honor, the decay rate is so slow that you never lose it. In fact I have only lost knight of honor if I invoked the virtue on myself in order to use it. I'm not sure if there really is a decay rate like the other virtues.

In my experience there is no decay in honor unless you use it on yourself. But since the whole point of honor for a tamer IS using it on yourself then, of course, it will decay.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

In my experience there is no decay in honor unless you use it on yourself. But since the whole point of honor for a tamer IS using it on yourself then, of course, it will decay.

Well yeah that was my thinking, but I had to double back and rethink about that virtue since the virtues seem to decay at varying rates except for honor.

 

[popps]

Re: Fel respawn is faster then tram respawn and greater reward

There are a few places in Fel that you can have an Isolated Ballie al to yourself.

That I know of the only places that Blarons spawn in Felucca are the bottom of the Hythloth Dungeon and the Terathan Keep.

Both places are not exactly easy to be reached with pets.....
They require quite a walk, cannot be recalled into.

Is there any other better option for balrons in Felucca ?