[Discussion] Trade Forum Rules Update Draft--Please Read

[Riyana]

Hello everyone!

We listened to your input and put our heads together to create a new rules draft specific to the trade forums.

The original draft admittedly needed work, and we appreciate your patience. We hope you see the intent behind the changes, which remain true in this draft: we want to create a reasonable balance between heavy and light sellers while not allowing any single person or a few people to perpetually dominate a forum. We don't wish to discourage or disallow bulk and high-volume sellers, but we also don't wish for smaller sellers to be crowded out.

Please look over this draft and let us know what you think needs clarification and/or revision. Barring any unforeseen circumstances, this draft will go into effect this Friday, May 20th. Thank you and happy trading!

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In addition to the Stratics Rules of Conduct, posts on the trade forums are subject to the following rules to ensure that all users have a fair, competitive opportunity to present in-game items for sale.

• It is strongly preferred for the best interest of potential buyers and for future public reference purposes that prices and bids for items listed on Stratics be made publicly in the sales thread.

• It is also strongly preferred that posts for not be 'blanked', with the body and subject of the posts left visible for future reference. There is a "Sold" tag which you can use to properly list that an item has been sold.

• Sales and auction threads must primarily consist of items consistent with the forum topic.

• Sellers and auctioneers may not 'bump' a thread more than 1 time every 24 hours.
  • For this context, a 'bump' is defined as a post devoid of any content or meaning other than to raise a post to the top of the forum.
  • Deleted bumps can be seen by the moderators, and still count towards the 1-per-24 hour limit.
  • Posts announcing the addition or removal of items will also be considered a 'bump', and are subject to the same 1-per-24 hour limit.
  • Posts that add content or contribute meaningfully to the sale or auction are permitted and encouraged, but a pattern of posting such content in a way that intentionally and systematically circumvents the bump rule may be treated as excessive bumping.
  • There is no restriction on the amount of updates within the last hour of an auction.

• A single poster may have no more than 5 active auctions and/or sales (in any combination) threads in any one section of the trade forums at any given time.
  • An "active" sale is one that was posted or bumped by the seller within the past 2 weeks and which has not been marked "sold".
  • An auction is "active" until its end date.
  • Posts listed as "auctions" must meet these criteria:
    • An auction is defined as a sale in which goods are sold to the highest bidder, in which the reserve and buyout price are not the same, and where a specific end time and date is given.
    • All auctions must begin at the time of posting, and end no later than 30 days after the date of the first post in the auction thread.

• Conducting any of the following commercial activities on Stratics is prohibited without permission of the Senior Leadership Team:
  • RMT or selling virtual goods for any real world currency.
  • Contracting to or hiring other users for out of game activities paid with in-game currency or items.
  • Contracting to or hiring other users for in-game activities paid for with any real world currency.
  • Sale or trade of game time or other game codes.
  • Sale or trade of game accounts for any game.
  • Sale or trade of items known to be illegal to own in game.

• All transactions are made at the user's own risk. Stratics can not enforce the completion of any trade offer and makes no guarantees in regards to items traded.
  • Stratics staff can not and will not arbitrate or mediate any trade disputes.
  • As trade disputes can not be mediated or resolved on the forums, they should be kept to private channels. Please see the Rules of Conduct section under Trolling, Personal Attacks, and Harassment for further clarification of accusations and airing public grievances.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

• "The bump restriction does not apply in the last hour of an auction."

I think this can still be a bit exploitable, if anything else highly annoying. Just allow them 1 last bump in the final hour even if they have used their current 24hr bump.

"A single poster may have no more than 5 active auctions and/or sales (in any combination) threads in any one section of the trade forums at any given time."

I think this is still a bit excessive. Either it needs to be in ALL trade sections or it needs to be limited even less. What's to stop someone from selling 8 EM drops from the month in 5 different threads thus still controlling the real estate of the front page?

 

[Smoot]

I better not get banned for bumping every 30 seconds after the nights event when im running a 1 hour auction.

i think you can see my point, you cant just give someone points for something thats within the rules (unless thats still gonna be a thing after last month), but at the same time this would be really annoying.

 

[BrianFreud]

@Smoot, yeah, technically you could do that... but realistically, you're talking about a situation lasting all of 1 hour... is anyone actually going to do that?

 

[Smoot]

@Smoot, yeah, technically you could do that... but realistically, you're talking about a situation lasting all of 1 hour... is anyone actually going to do that?

uhhh... if its gonna make a billion gold. yes im sure.

the point is, you cant just have a situation where a player is posting totally in the rules but give them points for it. "good" rules would eliminate any need for the mods seeing that as the only option to deal with problems.

 

[BrianFreud]

Ok, it conceivably could happen. Then that special specific hour passes, and it quickly falls off the front page. Personally, I can live with that. You wouldn't be getting points, because the special situation you describe technically doesn't break any rule as drafted.

 

[Best Friend]

So if I post I can only post 5 items in 24 hours? With 1 bump per post? . Or is it I can post as many items just only 5 postings can have a bump once per day with up to 5 postings can be bumped 24 hours?

 

[Merlin]

• "The bump restriction does not apply in the last hour of an auction."

I think this can still be a bit exploitable, if anything else highly annoying. Just allow them 1 last bump in the final hour even if they have used their current 24hr bump.

As long as people aren't otherwise over bumping and trying to abuse the rules, I don't think we will be giving out points for bumping before the 1 hour mark of an auction ending.

I better not get banned for bumping every 30 seconds after the nights event when im running a 1 hour auction.

i think you can see my point, you cant just give someone points for something thats within the rules (unless thats still gonna be a thing after last month), but at the same time this would be really annoying.

Sorry, but bumping every 30 seconds is excessive. If you're running a 1 hour auction, then the thread will be in clear sight near the top of the forum and should not require several bumps that are devoid of any additional information. You can update your bids, sure, but you should not be posting bumps that include no new information.

 

[Smoot]

Sorry, but bumping every 30 seconds is excessive. If you're running a 1 hour auction, then the thread will be in clear sight near the top of the forum and should not require several bumps that are devoid of any additional information. You can update your bids, sure, but you should not be posting bumps that include no new information.

yes that was my point, it was an example. bumping every 30 seconds, or every second would be within the rules. and you shouldnt be able to be punished for doing something within the rules. if you are, it wasnt a good rule to begin with.

The bump restriction does not apply in the last hour of an auction.
this is how it reads now.

i think the intention was:
There is no restriction on the amount of bid updates within the last hour of an auction.

 

[Smoot]

So if I post I can only post 5 items in 24 hours? With 1 bump per post? . Or is it I can post as many items just only 5 postings can have a bump once per day with up to 5 postings can be bumped 24 hours?

you can post as many times as you want, but under these rules you get points for:

having more than 5 posts containing items for sale, that havent sold yet in the past 14 days.

as well as the all the bump limitations.


The new rules dont mention anything about "buying" threads. currently you can have as many of those as you want.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

As long as people aren't otherwise over bumping and trying to abuse the rules, I don't think we will be giving out points for bumping before the 1 hour mark of an auction ending.

what happens when there are 2-3 auctions ending on or around the same time? What if one person has 4-5 auctions going all ending on or around the same time? Bumping during the last hour is just plain stupid. 1 bump should be allowed regardless of the 24hr bump rule, anything more than that is absurd. I don't need to read, 'bids updated' 10 times in the final hour of an auction.

 

[Merlin]

Bumping during the last hour is just plain stupid. 1 bump should be allowed regardless of the 24hr bump rule, anything more than that is absurd.

As long as the 'bump' is meaningful, there shouldn't be an issue with it in the last hour. Sometimes the person hosting the sale will have to weigh in to settle disputes or answer questions, or especially if there are frequent amount of bids in the last hour on an auction that has a number of different items, it gives buyers/bidders the information they need to know if their bids are being recognized, etc. This is no change from the way the system currently works.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

As long as the 'bump' is meaningful, there shouldn't be an issue with it in the last hour. Sometimes the person hosting the sale will have to weigh in to settle disputes or answer questions, or especially if there are frequent amount of bids in the last hour on an auction that has a number of different items, it gives buyers/bidders the information they need to know if their bids are being recognized, etc. This is no change from the way the system currently works.

I'm not talking about anything you are stating. Let me clarify....

I am hosting an auction and it ends in 1hr. I then bump every fifteen minutes stating 45min left/30min left/15min left and then proceed to 10min left/5min left.

Recognizing bids and responding to questions are not something I am speaking about.

 

[Merlin]

I'm not talking about anything you are stating. Let me clarify....

I am hosting an auction and it ends in 1hr. I then bump every fifteen minutes stating 45min left/30min left/15min left and then proceed to 10min left/5min left.

Recognizing bids and responding to questions are not something I am speaking about.

Understood - clarification appreciated.

In that case - do you have a suggestion for us to consider of how this should be handled and/or written?

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Understood - clarification appreciated.

In that case - do you have a suggestion for us to consider of how this should be handled and/or written?

Honestly, I am very pleased with the overall changes. You can ask @Captn Norrington and @Zuckuss about how long I have been pancakeing about the old system.

I think adjustments within the thread, such as; updating bids, needs to be done and encouraged to be done in the original posting. Otherwise 1 'bump' post is more than enough within the final hour to tag ppl, state time left etc...

Answering questions such as, 'were is the item located' etc should not be considered a bump. Although, I would love for auctioneers to become much more organized in stating all of this information in the original post thus having less clutter within the auction.

Any chance you can develop a template that can be auto-populated via selecting answers or entering text? This would give unity to all auctions and greatly reduce confusion.

Example: Start date ______ <---drop down box that would populate date and time

 

[Kirthag]

If there are short sales - perhaps make a way to have those treated slightly differently.
Of course, this will have to be on the honor system and posters will have to police....

Perhaps a short sale would be tagged as "short sale" or "flash sale" for those short lived auctions, and get a special place to hang out near the top of the forum for that hour?
OR
Get a shout-box feature (xenforo has that) for sellers to post their flash-auctions and short-sales which will be scrolling, constantly. That would not break the bump rule, but still be a sort of bumping process.
Probably would make it a shout-box only for the trade forum though, not general, profession or shard forums.

 

[Riyana]

Understand that we fully expect there to be a transitional period in which moderators will offer guidance and leniency while people adjust to the changes. In light of the concerns and comments here, the following corrections have been made to this draft:

• The bump restriction does not apply in the last hour of an auction.

has been changed to:

• There is no restriction on the amount of updates within the last hour of an auction.

Allowing excessive bumping for the sake of bumping is not the intent--the intent is too allow auctions the freedom to deal with the inevitable increase in activity at the end of an auction.

• Sale or trade of items that are duped, created via exploit, or illegal to own in game.

has been changed to:

• Sale or trade of items known to be illegal to own in game.

We will be creating a list of items that are known to be illegal in game, and will maintain it for easy reference. This has not been a major issue in the past and we will count on the community to help keep these items known and off the forums, as has long been the practice.

 

[Lord Frodo]

As long as people aren't otherwise over bumping and trying to abuse the rules, I don't think we will be giving out points for bumping before the 1 hour mark of an auction ending.

So give us a hard number of what Stratics considers over bumping so there is ZERO confusion and there is absolutely ZERO interpretation on the part of the MODs so ZERO favoritism may be inferred.

 

[Lord Frodo]

As long as the 'bump' is meaningful, there shouldn't be an issue with it in the last hour. Sometimes the person hosting the sale will have to weigh in to settle disputes or answer questions, or especially if there are frequent amount of bids in the last hour on an auction that has a number of different items, it gives buyers/bidders the information they need to know if their bids are being recognized, etc. This is no change from the way the system currently works.

What exactly is a "MEANINGFUL BUMP"? Answering questions is not a "BUMP". A "BUMP" is a bump to ensure your post stays on top and nothing more. Maybe Stratics should post specifics so there is no confusion or better yet maybe Stratics should apply some common sense instead of using words like "MEANINGFUL" as a guide line.

 

[Merlin]

What exactly is a "MEANINGFUL BUMP"? Answering questions is not a "BUMP". A "BUMP" is a bump to ensure your post stays on top and nothing more. Maybe Stratics should post specifics so there is no confusion or better yet maybe Stratics should apply some common sense instead of using words like "MEANINGFUL" as a guide line.

Or our posters can use some common sense and courtesy and simply not over bump their threads. Our current policy is more descriptive than it's ever been. We're not going to write out a lawyer approved document that describes what every type of bump is, and then have debates about it with posters who want to find any loophole they can around the rules. I believe Stratics posters have enough knowledge to be able to discern what is 'meaningful' and what isn't.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Honestly, I am very pleased with the overall changes. You can ask @Captn Norrington and @Zuckuss about how long I have been pancakeing about the old system.

I think adjustments within the thread, such as; updating bids, needs to be done and encouraged to be done in the original posting. Otherwise 1 'bump' post is more than enough within the final hour to tag ppl, state time left etc...

Answering questions such as, 'were is the item located' etc should not be considered a bump. Although, I would love for auctioneers to become much more organized in stating all of this information in the original post thus having less clutter within the auction.

Any chance you can develop a template that can be auto-populated via selecting answers or entering text? This would give unity to all auctions and greatly reduce confusion.

Example: Start date ______ <---drop down box that would populate date and time

Location of item should always be given so this IMHO stupid question should never be asked.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Or our posters can use some common sense and courtesy and simply not over bump their threads. Our current policy is more descriptive than it's ever been. We're not going to write out a lawyer approved document that describes what every type of bump is, and then have debates about it with posters who want to find any loophole they can around the rules. I believe Stratics posters have enough knowledge to be able to discern what is 'meaningful' and what isn't.

LMAO The posters are not the ones who brought this "MEANINGFUL BUMP" up, you did as a representative of Stratics by answering questions. Wasn't these new rules suppose to take confusion out of what is or is not considered an infraction and now according to your answer we are suppose to use common sense and leave it up to you to interpret yet again what is or is not allowed. Sounds like you are trying to set people up again by being at the mercy of interpretation yet again.

 

[Smoot]

considering that adding another entire item to a sales thread isnt seen as "meaningful info" i have to say the threshold for what is "meaningful" is very vague. even with trying to be considerate, what one player considers to be very meaningful might not be what the mods consider meaningful. and with only 3 mistakes of this nature to get a ban theres good chance of accruing ban points without meaning to.

 

[Alex"Drake Iron Heart"CS]

• Sale or trade of game accounts for any game

Ok I dont know how to word this carefully but will try my best, say someone wants to leave the game but wants to sell their Accs, there is many players out there new and old that would be willing to buy these accounts,

1. for the new or newer players it takes away all the grind, hard work of creating an account (Chars, suits, etc) and collecting the things they need for their chars.... This being the main issue of why people leave this game and dont come back, its not easy for new players to start this game IMO.
2. For the vet players or already playing, they can buy their mates acc and have their stuff instead of going to waste, Other players if the acc is old enough they also benefit from having vet rewards that they can get, say someone was a tue PvPer the acc they can buy can have additional chars they have not built yet or even better have a few pvp chars which are available to them now, Server birth items dont het lost, EM rares wont get lost, etccc on these lines for items, It can also help the RP commnity as having someone control chars that are known

By not allowing players to sell their ACCs on strats, I think we are only helping the websites to gain more customers, if you get what I say, cause as anyone can search online you can see for yourself.

Also by having it on strats its more open to the whole public or better say the public that uses strats, and although you guys dont want to be responsable, it can be policed by the community as a whole, not necessaraly the stractics team, so there is also better peace of mind as people can review, although I understand its also open to trolling to make people look bad and lose sales.



On the sales/auctions, drop down menus as someone suggested sounds good way to simplify the posts, or even take it a step further where there is some input system for offers:

As seller:

Slither (Box set price)

As Buyer:

Slither (Minimum set price -Bold) (Drop down menu with offer) which updates auto

Display it same way as people already do ex: Oubid xxxxxx, New offer X millions by xxxxxxxx

This makes no need for posts of people putting item 1 - 20m......


Thats my little grain of sand to this

 

[Smoot]

Also by having it on strats its more open to the whole public or better say the public that uses strats, and although you guys dont want to be responsable, it can be policed by the community as a whole, not necessaraly the stractics team, so there is also better peace of mind as people can review, although I understand its also open to trolling to make people look bad and lose sales.

i dont see how users would be allow to "police" anything at all, seeing that we arent allowed to out cheaters, scammers, or comment on the reputation of sellers here on stratics.