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The Big Economy Thread

K

Kaladin

Guest
I don’t care much for this idea either. This would require the oversight of Mesanna to track what I would only assume is a monumental listing of rare and event items in order to guarantee no toes were stepped on for existing rare items . She would probably delegate her EMs to help out, and I’m not so sure they signed up solely to hand out items to the wealthy. In short I don’t like the idea of pimping her and her crew out as a gold sink.

Also it’s just too small of a gold sink. As for the economy, many are at the “end-as-we-know it” game. For those folks, throwing around a few hundred mill here and there isn’t going to phase them. Devs could consider re-designing “end game” economics with a few big carrots for the folks who are sitting on piles of gold. They are waiting for an excuse to spend it. Let’s give them one:

What comes to mind right off is something (a few) folks have been wanting for a very very long time, customizable Keep and Castle plots. Devs don’t want to touch it because (this is from memory here so I’m not certain) it is a coding nightmare to automate a placement system given that the courtyard footprint ignores static objects (rocks, trees and the like). Also I’d think there isn’t enough demand for this to merit dev time spent on a “free” client patch place a large plot like this. And there wouldn’t be enough interest to cover coding costs by selling it on gamecodes.

However, the idea does fit more into a personal category. If the lay of the land blocks placement of a customizable castle sized plot where a normal castle would fit, then all you have to do is alter the land and place. If the devs have the power to alter landscapes, then the only thing up for debate is the price. Imagine a customizable keep plot for 10 billion and castle plot for 20 billion, plus you have to have a placed castle/keep plot to hand over to the devs to mark your spot. Then they could adjust the landscape on a case by case basis, place the plot and transfer it to the original owner much like the abyss plots were handed out. It would be enough gold to keep the devs from being flooded with requests. And I think there would be enough interest to sell a few and slurp a big chunk of gold out of the game. The numbers are a wild guess on my part, but you get the idea.
Customizable keeps and castles is too small a gold sink. How do you establish a price for the ability to customize? Each shard has a different economy. No matter what price they chose it would be wrong.

Development costs for customizable keeps and castles would outweigh the benefits.
 

Zosimus

Grand Inquisitor
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
If Magincia could be redone into a player run town as most hope it would/will be then why dont the devs just add some housing spots in all/most cities. Do the same set up as the Magincia raffle. Doesn't have to be a player run town per se but maybe more like a player run neighborhood. Makes the plot the same size 15x15.
 
L

LoL/Sonoma

Guest
If Magincia could be redone into a player run town as most hope it would/will be then why dont the devs just add some housing spots in all/most cities. Do the same set up as the Magincia raffle. Doesn't have to be a player run town per se but maybe more like a player run neighborhood. Makes the plot the same size 15x15.
I would worry that doing this would cause either the exisitng "player cities" (Luna and Magencia) or the new cities, to lose their value. If every city was a player inhabited city then they wouldnt be special ... and might not be desirable either. How many vendor mall cities can UO support?

I am interested to see if Magencia will hold any value in a year's time considering how convenient Luna is comparitively speaking.
 

Zosimus

Grand Inquisitor
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I would worry that doing this would cause either the exisitng "player cities" (Luna and Magencia) or the new cities, to lose their value. If every city was a player inhabited city then they wouldnt be special ... and might not be desirable either. How many vendor mall cities can UO support?

I am interested to see if Magencia will hold any value in a year's time considering how convenient Luna is comparitively speaking.
I wasn't suggesting huge amount of plots. Say no less than 5 and no more then 10 plots in a city. Does not have to be all cities either. More appelaing to a player that wants to feel like they are part of that city. My post was more to the role players of the game not the greedy mall players. I think the devs were prepared for Magincia more then we thought. Magincia wont become a mall like Luna. Read this link....


Notes on Recent Client Update with Publish 70, Booster Pack? | UOJournal.com


Cities in the game used to be the life of the game. Now empty in most places and the population spread out if they held simlar smaller raffles in certain cities it may bring some old UO feel and life back into those cities. Plus still a gold sink :) I played the game for PvP but in truth I know how important the PvMers and RP's are to this game also. UO needs to get the players involved back into the game.
 
W

Woodsman

Guest
I would worry that doing this would cause either the exisitng "player cities" (Luna and Magencia) or the new cities, to lose their value. If every city was a player inhabited city then they wouldnt be special ... and might not be desirable either. How many vendor mall cities can UO support?
So the devs should only cater to a few dozen people on each shard who have Luna, Zento, or Magencia houses?

Every major housing expansion of UO has devalued the homes of 100s of players (if not more). Tram devalued much of Fel and Malas/Luna devalued many Tram houses. We shouldn't throw on the brakes and say "we shouldn't care about people in Fel prior to Tram or people in Tram and Fel prior to Malas/Luna, but we should all of the sudden start caring about people in Luna or New Magincia." That's not a good sign to send to older players.

If anything, the existing "player cities" are a joke for the most part, because there are too few players involved. It's really silly when you think about how some players own multiple houses in Luna/Zento, restricting ownership even more.

If anything, creating more player cities would bring a lot more people together. It just has to be done right. New Magincia presents a unique opportunity since it's destruction was a part of Ultima lore. It's not so easy with other cities.

Since they are giving us Ocllo in Tram once they change the new player experience, I'd say Ocllo would be a prime candidate for a future attempt at a player city. It's something to be considered, although I much prefer that everybody has an equal shot - one ticket per account type of thing.
 

Mongbat137

Visitor
Stratics Veteran
Need to create a dozen one-of-a-kind per shard rares and lottery them off one per month for a year. Gold sink.
 

W@R

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
SORRY GUYS BUT THIS THREAD IS 300 POSTS OF REPEATED SAME IDEAS BEING VIEWED FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES AND BEING CHEWED OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

UO IS A SMALL MMORPG AND DEVELOPERS HAVE NO FINANCIAL/PEOPLE/TIME RESOURCES TO IMPLEMENT YOUR SUPER SMART AND SUPER COMPLICATED IDEAS BECAUSE MESSING WITH ECONOMICS WILL REQUIRE MONTHS OF TESTING AND YEARS OF WAITING TO SEE THE RESULTS OF YOUR 1GP GOLD SINKS

WE NEED A SIMPLE, FAST AND INTERESTING FOR EVERYONE SOLUTION TO CONSTANTLY REMOVE HUGE AMOUNTS OF GOLD FROM THE GAME.

SO HERE IS THE IDEA!

MAKE PVM ARENA. LETS CALL IT $SEASON 1 ARENA$

WHEN YOU ENTER ARENA ALL STAT/MOD CAPS ARE REMOVED. WHY? READ FURTHER

BY ENTERING ARENA YOU FACE A BOSS THAT REQUIRE 5-10 PEOPLE TO KILL IT. YOU WILL HAVE NO CHANCE TO KILL THIS BOSS WITHOUT SEASON 1 EQUIPMENT.

LETS SAY SEASON 1 EQUIPMENT WILL HAVE FOLLOWING MODS ON EACH PIECE MR10/MI10/SI10/HPI10 AND SIMILAR MODS ON WEAPONS

EQUIPMENT MUST BE CHARACTER BOUND AND CANT BE USED OUTSIDE OF ARENA.

YOU CAN BUY SEASON 1 EQUIPMENT FROM NPC VENDOR. EQUIPMENT IS ONLY AVAILABLE FOR GOLD FROM THIS VENDOR AND NOWHERE ELSE. WORTH X MILLIONS A PIECE.

BY KILLING SEASON 1 BOSS YOU GET GUARANTEED FEW PIECES OF SEASON 2 EQUIPMENT + SOME GOOD ITEMS THAT CAN BE USED OUTSIDE OF ARENA LIKE OLD ARTIES OR DECORATION STUFF OR MEMORIAL EQUIPMENT WITHOUT MODS

IN NEXT FEW MONTHS YOU MAKE SEASON 2 ARENA

TO KILL SEASON 2 BOSS YOU NEED SEASON 2 EQUIPMENT WITH 20MR/20SI/20MI/20HPI AND SO ON.

IF YOU DIDNT KILL SEASON 1 BOSS OR YOU DIDNT KILL IT ENOUGH TIMES TO GET FULL SUIT OF SEASON 2 EQUIPMENT YOU CAN BUY MISSING PARTS FROM SEASON 2 VENDOR FOR X MILLIONS A PIECE..


IN ADDITION YOU CAN ADD SUPPORTING AMMUNITION TO SEASON VENDORS. LIKE SEASON 1 POTIONS, BANDAGES, ARROWS AND OTHER SPECIAL THINGS THAT MAKE THE FIGHT EASIER.

THIS WILL NOT AFFECT NEWBIES BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO SKILL TO FIGHT THOSE BOSSES AND NO GOLD TO BUY EQUIPMENT.

THIS WILL NOT AFFECT CURRENT BOSSES BECAUSE YOU CANT USE ARENA EQUIPMENT OUTSIDE OF ARENA.

THIS WILL ADD NEW LEVEL OF GAME PLAY TO UO. THIS WILL MOTIVATE PLAYERS TO COMMUNICATE MORE WITH EACH OTHER TO GET GOOD ENOUGH TO EVEN TRY THOSE BOSSES.

THIS WILL REMOVE BILLIONS OF GOLD ON EVERY SHARD MONTHLY AND EVERYONE WILL BE HAPPY BECAUSE THERE WILL BE FINALLY A REASON TO GATHER IN TEAMS AND DO SOMETHING BECAUSE CURRENTLY UO IS BORING - THERE IS NO FUN SOLOING DARK FATHER.

IN ADDITION TO THIS YOU CAN ADD SIMILAR VENDORS OUTSIDE OF ARENA AND SELL THINGS THAT EVERYONE NEED - EQUIPMENT AND AMMUNITION BECAUSE ITS THE ONLY THING THAT EVERYONE WILL BUY. PEOPLE WONT SPEND BILLIONS ON DECORATION GARBAGE.

ALSO YOU NEED TO CONSTANTLY MAKE THIS EQUIPMENT USELESS, LIKE EVERY 3 MONTHS OR SO. SO PEOPLE WILL HAVE REASON TO LOGIN INGAME AND ACTUALLY PLAY IT!

BECAUSE CURRENTLY ONCE YOU MADE YOUR SUPER SUIT WITH ALL-MODS CAP THERE IS NO REASON TO GO ANYWHERE

TO FIX THE GOLD AND ATTRACT NEW PEOPLE TO THIS GAME YOU NEED TO IMPLEMENT SOMETHING NEW. AND THIS NEW THING IS RAIDS.
 

Cyanide_Mage

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
SORRY GUYS BUT THIS THREAD IS 300 POSTS OF REPEATED SAME IDEAS BEING VIEWED FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES AND BEING CHEWED OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

UO IS A SMALL MMORPG AND DEVELOPERS HAVE NO FINANCIAL/PEOPLE/TIME RESOURCES TO IMPLEMENT YOUR SUPER SMART AND SUPER COMPLICATED IDEAS BECAUSE MESSING WITH ECONOMICS WILL REQUIRE MONTHS OF TESTING AND YEARS OF WAITING TO SEE THE RESULTS OF YOUR 1GP GOLD SINKS

WE NEED A SIMPLE, FAST AND INTERESTING FOR EVERYONE SOLUTION TO CONSTANTLY REMOVE HUGE AMOUNTS OF GOLD FROM THE GAME.

SO HERE IS THE IDEA!

MAKE PVM ARENA. LETS CALL IT $SEASON 1 ARENA$

WHEN YOU ENTER ARENA ALL STAT/MOD CAPS ARE REMOVED. WHY? READ FURTHER

BY ENTERING ARENA YOU FACE A BOSS THAT REQUIRE 5-10 PEOPLE TO KILL IT. YOU WILL HAVE NO CHANCE TO KILL THIS BOSS WITHOUT SEASON 1 EQUIPMENT.

LETS SAY SEASON 1 EQUIPMENT WILL HAVE FOLLOWING MODS ON EACH PIECE MR10/MI10/SI10/HPI10 AND SIMILAR MODS ON WEAPONS

EQUIPMENT MUST BE CHARACTER BOUND AND CANT BE USED OUTSIDE OF ARENA.

YOU CAN BUY SEASON 1 EQUIPMENT FROM NPC VENDOR. EQUIPMENT IS ONLY AVAILABLE FOR GOLD FROM THIS VENDOR AND NOWHERE ELSE. WORTH X MILLIONS A PIECE.

BY KILLING SEASON 1 BOSS YOU GET GUARANTEED FEW PIECES OF SEASON 2 EQUIPMENT + SOME GOOD ITEMS THAT CAN BE USED OUTSIDE OF ARENA LIKE OLD ARTIES OR THINGS THAT CANT BE WORN LIKE DECORATION STUFF OR MEMORIAL THINGS

IN NEXT FEW MONTHS YOU MAKE SEASON 2 ARENA

TO KILL SEASON 2 BOSS YOU NEED SEASON 2 EQUIPMENT WITH 20MR/20SI/20MI/20HPI AND SO ON.

IF YOU DIDNT KILL SEASON 1 BOSS OR YOU DIDNT KILL IT ENOUGH TIMES TO GET FULL SUIT OF SEASON 2 EQUIPMENT YOU CAN BUY MISSING PARTS FROM SEASON 2 VENDOR FOR X MILLIONS A PIECE..

IN ADDITION YOU CAN ADD SUPPORTING AMMUNITION TO SEASON VENDORS. LIKE SEASON 1 POTIONS, BANDAGES, ARROWS AND OTHER SPECIAL THINGS THAT MAKE THE FIGHER EASIER.


THIS WILL NOT AFFECT NEWBIES BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO SKILL TO FIGHT THOSE BOSSES AND NO GOLD TO BUY EQUIPMENT.

THIS WILL NOT AFFECT CURRENT BOSSES BECAUSE YOU CANT USE ARENA EQUIPMENT OUTSIDE OF ARENA.

THIS WILL ADD NEW LEVEL OF GAME PLAY TO UO. THIS WILL MOTIVATE PLAYERS TO COMMUNICATE MORE WITH EACH OTHER TO GET GOOD ENOUGH TO EVEN TRY THOSE BOSSES.

THIS WILL REMOVE BILLIONS OF GOLD ON EVERY SHARD MONTHLY AND EVERYONE WILL BE HAPPY BECAUSE THERE WILL BE FINALLY A REASON TO GATHER IN TEAMS AND DO SOMETHING BECAUSE CURRENTLY UO IS BORING - THERE IS NO FUN SOLOING DARK FATHER.

IN ADDITION TO THIS YOU CAN ADD SIMILAR VENDORS OUTSIDE OF ARENA AND SELL THINS THAT EVERYONE NEED - EQUIPMENT AND AMMUNITION BECAUSE ITS THE ONLY THING THAT EVERYONE WILL BUY. PEOPLE WONT SPEND BILLIONS ON DECORATION GARBAGE.

ALSO YOU NEED TO CONSTANTLY MAKE THIS EQUIPMENT GARBAGE, LIKE EVERY 3 MONTHS OR SO. SO PEOPLE WILL HAVE REASON TO LOGIN INGAME AND ACTUALLY PLAY IT!

BECAUSE CURRENTLY ONCE YOU MADE YOUR SUPER-SUIT WITH ALL-MODS CAP THERE IS NOT REASON TO GO ANYWHERE
ZOMG! I would not have taken your post srs until I saw ITS IN ALL CAPS!!!!111!!!!!111!!1ELEVENTY1!
 

W@R

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
ZOMG! I would not have taken your post srs until I saw ITS IN ALL CAPS!!!!111!!!!!111!!1ELEVENTY1!
thanks for quoting my post, hopefully if everyone will quote it will reach its target.

this post wasnt for you or guys who could walk under the table when i started playing this game.

there is alredy enough of milksoppy people here that frightening devs that they will close theyr account if devs dont do what they want. all of the ideas in this thread was alredy posted on stratics years ago, most of them are too time consuming to implement and lack motivation. YOU NEED SOMETHING NEW TO REBORN THIS BORING GAME. AND THIS NEW THING IS RAIDS
 

W@R

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I didn't even bother to read it the moment it came onscreen in ALL CAPS.
who the f cares if you read it or not? you are nobody - you cant change this game. you can keep your thoughts with yourself. this is forum and you should type in a chat instead cuz your post lack any worthy information
 

Dermott of LS

UOEC Modder
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
...

Now that you've found the caps lock key, you might try reposting in a manner that would entice people to read it (i.e. without it in all caps)
 

W@R

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
...

Now that you've found the caps lock key, you might try reposting in a manner that would entice people to read it (i.e. without it in all caps)
and you might try buying yourself some brain and think of things that could fix uo instead of stupidly raising your post count WITHOUT CAPS.

by getting 3 replies in 1 minute i can see that CAPS is working very well. you can call your mom and whine if you dont like it - noone cares.
 
A

AesSedai

Guest
and you might try buying yourself some brain and think of things that could fix uo instead of stupidly raising your post count WITHOUT CAPS.

by getting 3 replies in 1 minute i can see that CAPS is working very well. you can call your mom and whine if you dont like it - noone cares.
- Hi mom? Aye, hullo! I don't like it. What is that mom?

Doh! :( you're right mom: no one cares for CAPS. A modicum of professionalism does work much better; thanks mom, I luv ya'!
 

W@R

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
- Hi mom? Aye, hullo! I don't like it. What is that mom?

Doh! :( you're right mom: no one cares for CAPS. A modicum of professionalism does work much better; thanks mom, I luv ya'!
it is people like you that made this game ****. people that can only flame in a clown-ish style on forums not being able to post a single idea from their brainless head cuz there is none in it. if you cant do constructive critique of the idea in post and only can see the caps in it why do you bother posting? you should just go eat grass with other donkey's like yourself
 

Nyses

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
In the real world, one cannot just go out and "kill a monster" to get money. To a degree, money is in finite supply. Ya, I know governments print money all the time, but then their money is devalued compared to other countries economies.

In UO, money (gold) is not a finite supply. You can do quests, spawns, or bash monsters and effectively, "create" new money. There is no control to limit the amount of new money coming into UO versus the amount of money being taken out of UO, as Phoenix stated in the beginning.

Short of capping the gold supply and then basing everything on the supply of gold in the system, one of the only solutions I see having any effect on the supply of gold would be short term desirable, buffs, weapons, armor and in general, stuff, that would need to be re-purchased every so often from NPC's.

One of the best ideas I read, was additional housing/storage on one account for a gold fee. The arguments against this were something to the effect of EA would loose RL money on that. True, maybe. I cut back to 2 accounts, but I would pay for housing, on different shards.

Therein lies the other problem, anything really coveted, EA sells for RL money at their store. How do they ever expect to tackle the inflation issue, when all the best stuff players would spend gold on, they instead have to spend RL money on?
 
S

Sevin0oo0

Guest
Ban Scripters => So EA and Cal should do what they said was a top priority last year and ban all cheaters and scripters in their Excel spreadsheet.
Cal did, He said there would NOT be mass bans, so that idea is never gonna happen, sorry. So now what?
 
W

Woodsman

Guest
Cal did, He said there would NOT be mass bans, so that idea is never gonna happen, sorry. So now what?
I doubt there will be any more bans as well. They've got really obvious scripters walking around Luna that everybody has known about for months, and the fact that the scripters don't feel the need to hide their identities says everything you need to know about this dev team's views on scripters. The scripters even brag about adding New Magincia to their routes.

It's a shame, because if new players are brought in with all of the things that EA has planned for UO, they are going to quickly find out about the scripters. You can bet that EA will not tolerate cheating within Star Wars: TOR, but UO...the scripters know they have nothing to fear.
 

Theo_GL

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I doubt there will be any more bans as well. They've got really obvious scripters walking around Luna that everybody has known about for months, and the fact that the scripters don't feel the need to hide their identities says everything you need to know about this dev team's views on scripters. The scripters even brag about adding New Magincia to their routes.

It's a shame, because if new players are brought in with all of the things that EA has planned for UO, they are going to quickly find out about the scripters. You can bet that EA will not tolerate cheating within Star Wars: TOR, but UO...the scripters know they have nothing to fear.
It seems that scripting has picked up again. I am seeing alot of mining scripters out again on GL.

Honestly they could kill most of the hard core scripting with a minor amount of game changes.

First, to combat the Search UO's and the like - create an in game vendor search system or even an out of game (Website) search function. There is NO downside to this. People want to find the best price. People with the best price have priced their goods to sell quick. Any help to match the 2 up is huge for playability.

Second, limit the amount of ingots or wood an account can gather per day. Like 5k or something. That would stop the all day miners and people playing manually could do that in an hour or two.

And I've said this since day 1 - increase the drop rate of Ecru's and the special gems. It takes too many to craft jewelry and only scripters can gather enough to create these items for any reasonable cost. More gems = less time required for everyone to mine and further devalues item scripters use bots to obtain.
 

Dermott of LS

UOEC Modder
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
...

What if I wanted to mine more than "an hour or two"... or fish, or whatever? Shouldn't I have that choice if I have a day off and want to spend a slightly rediculous amount of time harvesting resources (assuming that it is done legitimately and the only negative working against me is boredom/fatigue)?

I'm in no way defending scripting, but simply asking how do you punish scripting (outside of a concentrated effort on the GM/CS side to target and ban) without punishing legitimate players.
 
L

LoL/Sonoma

Guest
...

What if I wanted to mine more than "an hour or two"... or fish, or whatever? ....

... how do you punish scripting (outside of a concentrated effort on the GM/CS side to target and ban) without punishing legitimate players.
Agreed completely. I do not support anything that dictates when and how players are allowed to do something as simple as resource gathering. I KNOW i have spent more than 2 hours lumberjacking just this week while watching TV with the wife out of town.

Taking playtime options out of a Sandbox is a bad idea and a slippery slope.
 

cdavbar

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
game Rented vendors in every city
If this were ever an option they would have to make it so the clothes are NOT customizable. Dont get me wrong I love customizing my vendors. But I also expect to see flamboyantly dressed vendors at peoples houses. On the other hand when I go into the city, I expect to see people dressed more respectfully.
 

cdavbar

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Second, limit the amount of ingots or wood an account can gather per day. Like 5k or something. That would stop the all day miners and people playing manually could do that in an hour or two.
Your kidding right? This would DESTROY the economy. Inflation would go sky high. You know how many ingots it takes to supply a ship for battle on the high seas? Or how many boards it takes or how much cloth it takes? I go through tens of thousands of boards and cloth, and thousands of ingots in just a couple hours of battle on the seas.

Limiting this would cause price to skyrocket. Once I get my 5k for the day I would have to buy it. If I'm not rich than I wont be able to afford the over inflated prices. If I cant buy the supplies I cant harvest myself I cant do the activities I would normally do. Get my drift. Oh while all this is happening, no gold has left the economy, but instead go to the people with muliple accounts or have mass reserves of resources left over from before the resource limits were put in place.
 

cdavbar

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Customizable keeps and castles is too small a gold sink. How do you establish a price for the ability to customize? Each shard has a different economy. No matter what price they chose it would be wrong.

Development costs for customizable keeps and castles would outweigh the benefits.
Aren't the prices of all houses the same on each shard when you build from scratch? So how would it be wrong in this instance to make it the same for customizing keeps/castles? (other than siege wich would def need a diff price base i dont think i need to explain).

Then again though Im against total customization of keeps/castles. I would love say different skins. Making them say logs instead of stone or sandstone instead of grey stone etc. Or on a castle making it so you can actually lock stuff down in your courtyard.

To do the skins they could have a vendor that sells Renovation Kits for XXX Gold. This kits could be applied similar to boat paints. Or they could just have the option on the house customization menu. ( i like the kits better though).

Face it....If you have a castle, you can afford the kit if you want it and a lot of gold leaves the game. It doesn't hurt the lower monetary class because they dont have a castle to begin with. By the time they are rich enough to get a castle/keep etc they will probably be able to afford a kit soon after if they wanted one too.
 

cdavbar

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Re: On Reagents

Reagents are an interesting subject. Here's a question:

BUT FIRST, THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL. This is not an idea that we are considering implementing.

Suppose there were a magic blessed bag that could hold up to 100 stone of reagents and scrolls, but in order for it to work you would have to feed it gold on an hourly basis -- otherwise it loses its blessing. How much gold would you be willing to feed it, and how did you arrive at that number?

AGAIN, THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL. My purpose in posing that question is to elicit some responses specifically about the value of reagents, and LRC, and scrolls.
Now this is a cool idea. My question to you first though is if it loses its bless status for non-payment, once you add gold to it does it re-bless? It would never be an item of interest if you had to pay for the time your not logged in etc.

If it re-blessed itself I could easily see myself dumping 250-500k/hr on it to keep regs. Once there is no need for LRC (because I am using regs), I will be able to further customize my suits for my different encounters.

I came up with that number because on the low end of what I would be fighting I would break even on costs vs rewards. On the high end of what I would be fighting I would still be profiting very nicely each hour.
 
L

LoL/Sonoma

Guest
That number is too high imo. I could never afford it with my characters and what i hunt. At best fighting the Stygian Dragon spawn i might do half that much. But even if it were more, what would be the point of the bag if i have to feed it every gold i make?
 

virtualhabitat

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
As I have mentioned in previous posts, I am relatively new to UO compared to most here. That said, I encountered something these past few days I cannot understand.

Pirating! Yes, I upgraded to High Seas because a few people in my new guild wanted to go out on someone's new orc ship. A good time was had by all and we even scuttled a players ship in felucca and stole all his supplies. (my first adventure in felucca) So I decided I wanted a ship.

Now, buying a ship and outfitting it with cannons is one thing, but when I began to grasp the expense associated with shooting those cannons (particularly the powder charges) I was floored.

By what logic is saltpeter so expensive? Never mind the cost of ingots and boards, they don't even come close to the cost of saltpeter @551 gold per each on Great Lakes.

Someone in my guild (a long-time player with a good amount of wealth) told me he had some 30,000 saltpeters he bought when HS was released and the price started at 8 gold each. From 8 to 551.

This is utterly bizarre and more than a little disappointing.
My advice is, if you're a new player, don't even think of spending the dough on the HS upgrade. You'll need a few years to save the gold it will cost to get any use from it.

Seriously, can someone explain how this helps the economy?
 

Phoenix_Mythic

UO Legend
VIP
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
the cost of saltpeter @551 gold per each on Great Lakes...Seriously, can someone explain how this helps the economy?
This is a perfect example of the type of inflation that the game's economy has undergone.

Saltpeter's price floats using a "commodity trader" algorithm. As players purchase it from the NPC, the NPC raises its price, simulating scarcity. As players sell back to the NPC, it lowers its price, simulating glut. Thus, the price of the item is determined by actual supply and demand.

The alternative to buying saltpeter is to mine it. It can be mined at a rate of 1,000 units or more per hour in a dungeon, with a mediocre luck suit and GM mining skill. It can also be mined at a lower rate from the safety of the deck of a ship. This means it is definitely possible to make gunpowder by investing time instead of gold into it.

The NPC pays 75% of its asking price when buying the commodity item from players. So if they're charging 500gp per unit to sell, they will pay 400gp per unit to buy. So, if you can mine 1,000 saltpeter per hour, that means you can sell it to the NPC and make 400K gold per hour. If you're selling saltpeter, you also have the option of selling directly to other players, undercutting the NPC price, to make more than what the NPC offers.
 

Amber Moon

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
This overlooks the primary purpose of the game: To have fun and be entertained.

If I wanted to 'play' an economics simulator, I think I could do better.
 
L

LoL/Sonoma

Guest
This overlooks the primary purpose of the game: To have fun and be entertained.

If I wanted to 'play' an economics simulator, I think I could do better.
I guess i have to agree here. I've finally stopped pirating (which i love) due to the expense. Considering how much saltpeter it takes to fire one shot (about 40 per heavy shot, no counting crafting failure) and how many shots it takes to scuttle a ship (~12) you can do two pirate ships per hour of mining. That is assuming that Phoenix's 1000/hour number is accurate, which i figure he would know.

But once you take into account crafting losses, bad shots, extra shots ,etc etc, you are lucky to sink two ships with one hour of mining. I would guess it is more like 1.5 an hour.

On the lower pop shards there just isnt enough of a player base to keep the saltpeter cost low (noone is selling it back or selling it at vendors). Would it maybe make more sense to have the vendor's price drop by X% each day even if noone is selling it back?
 

Velvathos

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I think a virtual currency would work best under platinum, copper, silver and gold as the currencies like with what most MMO's like to do these days.. 100 platinum would = 1 copper, 100 copper would = 1 silver and 100 silver would = 1 gold.. Convert all existing gold in the game into platinum..

1,000,000 platinum would = 10 gold (correct me if I am wrong..)

So yeah.. I wouldn't mind knocking off a few 0's
 
L

LoL/Sonoma

Guest
I think a virtual currency would work best under platinum, copper, silver and gold as the currencies like with what most MMO's like to do these days.. 100 platinum would = 1 copper, 100 copper would = 1 silver and 100 silver would = 1 gold.. Convert all existing gold in the game into platinum..

1,000,000 platinum would = 10 gold (correct me if I am wrong..)

So yeah.. I wouldn't mind knocking off a few 0's
Typically Platinum is the most expensive. So:

Copper>Silver>Gold>Platinum
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Patron
Maybe a few Siege ideas could be used as Siege do have a much better economy.

Where do gold come from?

1. NPC vendors
On normal shards they will buy everything, on Siege they won't buy anything.
At same time, NPC's do not sell resources except regs, bottles and scrolls.

It do not make it hard for newbies on Siege as players will buy as they can't buy from the NPC's.

2. Monster loot
This is not bad as long they can't sell to NPC vendors, only money generated from the loot will be the gold on the corpes, not gold from sale of the rest of the loot.

Now this do not mean they can't sell hide, wool, gems, regs and unrawed resourcer, players will búy them but gold from the players do not hurt the economy.

3. Houses
The large ones should cost more, also second floors walls and up should cost more.

When you rebuild or take down a house you should only get half of the value back.

4. Insurance

I'm sure it can be tweaked, so running around in a upper suit will be expensive in insurance but a gm stuff without runic bonus and low imbuing value will be cheap for a newbie to use.

If I have a say, insurance would be gone for good. I doubt it do help the economy at all and hurt the crafters and remove some of the challenge from the game even in Trammel. Maybe make it so an item only can be insured x times or it can't be secured after xx hours playtime where it is not left in a secure / locked down, in the bank or on a vendor.

Most important in this is to protect the less skilled players so they can get money from selling stuff they gain ingame but it do not matter to them, if they get it from from selling to players or to NPC's but it matter when it comes to the economy.

The rich already have to much gold.
 

Naxatilor Feluka

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I unfortunately did not read much past the first page of responses, but here is my idea.

Gold is sold at $X/1mil gold at uo codes store.

All items at the uo code store can be purchased FOR gold.

Everything from extra char slots, to crimmies, to powerscrolls.

Increase mob loot.

This gives players the chance to choose whether they want to do 30 peerlesses, or pay $X for a crimson.

Items being able to be purchased for gold would make searching for things forever on dead shards no longer a problem. It would give someone with 10 billion something to spend their gold ON.

***** I believe in one way, a super rich person would have access to everything in the game, [which they do anyway] and on the flip side, it gives ANY casual player more chances to spend money at the EA store, or to invest their time into something that could pay off for them more than the rare crimson. What if someone enjoys hunting Miasmas more than doing peerless? This gives someone interested in another style of the game a chance to get something worthwhile.

I honestly didn't think about this very long and there is probably a HUGE problem with it so LOL sorry. :)
 

Nexus

Site Support
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Moderator
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UNLEASHED
I think a virtual currency would work best under platinum, copper, silver and gold as the currencies like with what most MMO's like to do these days.. 100 platinum would = 1 copper, 100 copper would = 1 silver and 100 silver would = 1 gold.. Convert all existing gold in the game into platinum..

1,000,000 platinum would = 10 gold (correct me if I am wrong..)

So yeah.. I wouldn't mind knocking off a few 0's
Knocking off 0's doesn't fix the underlying problem, it just hides it...
 

puni666

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Had an idea for a small but constant gold sink. Any quest could have a buy off value to immediately finish the quest. So instead of taking the time to kill what ever monsters or collecting things to change an elf back to a human you could just pay 350k (not saying that would be the number) and boom the quest is finished and you can go about your UO day.

Seems to me the more you add to the game the more quests that appear then more money would be spent for that quick gratification.
 

Orgional Farimir

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Had an idea for a small but constant gold sink. Any quest could have a buy off value to immediately finish the quest. So instead of taking the time to kill what ever monsters or collecting things to change an elf back to a human you could just pay 350k (not saying that would be the number) and boom the quest is finished and you can go about your UO day.

Seems to me the more you add to the game the more quests that appear then more money would be spent for that quick gratification.
YES!!!!!!

and add NPC's that sell imbuing ingreds.
 

virtualhabitat

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
This is a perfect example of the type of inflation that the game's economy has undergone.

Saltpeter's price floats using a "commodity trader" algorithm. As players purchase it from the NPC, the NPC raises its price, simulating scarcity. As players sell back to the NPC, it lowers its price, simulating glut. Thus, the price of the item is determined by actual supply and demand.

The alternative to buying saltpeter is to mine it. It can be mined at a rate of 1,000 units or more per hour in a dungeon, with a mediocre luck suit and GM mining skill. It can also be mined at a lower rate from the safety of the deck of a ship. This means it is definitely possible to make gunpowder by investing time instead of gold into it.

The NPC pays 75% of its asking price when buying the commodity item from players. So if they're charging 500gp per unit to sell, they will pay 400gp per unit to buy. So, if you can mine 1,000 saltpeter per hour, that means you can sell it to the NPC and make 400K gold per hour. If you're selling saltpeter, you also have the option of selling directly to other players, undercutting the NPC price, to make more than what the NPC offers.
First, I apologize if my saltpeter post seemed a bit ranty.

As it happens, I had just made a miner a day or so prior to making the post. At somewhere around 70 or so skill I encountered my first nitre deposit. I was pretty stoked so I did a little reading about where they spawned.

In the twenty-four hour period on Wednesday 27 (sever up to server down on Thursday) I spent a total of 8 hours mining. the first 4 hours I got 600 saltper. Around the last two hours I got some luck on (495 total luck) and was able to get another 60. 661 in 8 hours. Note: it was not a continuous 8 hours, but 3 different playing sessions totaling up to 8.

I don't know what mediocre luck is, but I am certain 495 is close to it. It seems a bit optimistic to assume 1000 per hour.
I should note, mining skill is in low 90's now and race is elf if that makes a difference.
*****************************************
It also doesn't address the original question. How does this help the economy.

Phoenix, you wonderfully explained how the algorithm works, but I still do not understand how that is a healthy mechanism for the economy.
If it is a gold sink, It has reached its effective threshold as no one(or not enough) is buying it.

The algorithm is creating the appearance of scarcity and encourages players who mine it to never sell it back to the NPC, because they will always be able to ask higher and higher prices just like the NPC.

This is exacerbating inflation, not mitigating it.
 
W

Woodsman

Guest
Had an idea for a small but constant gold sink. Any quest could have a buy off value to immediately finish the quest. So instead of taking the time to kill what ever monsters or collecting things to change an elf back to a human you could just pay 350k (not saying that would be the number) and boom the quest is finished and you can go about your UO day.

Seems to me the more you add to the game the more quests that appear then more money would be spent for that quick gratification.
What's the point of having a quest if you can just plop down the gold to finish it?

It's not really a quest at that point.
 

Amber Moon

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Seems that in addition to the projected mining yields being off by around a factor of 10 (unless the yields shift a great deal at higher skills), we have this:

In the twenty-four hour period on Wednesday 27 (sever up to server down on Thursday) I spent a total of 8 hours mining. the first 4 hours I got 600 saltper. Around the last two hours I got some luck on (495 total luck) and was able to get another 60. 661 in 8 hours. Note: it was not a continuous 8 hours, but 3 different playing sessions totaling up to 8.
Gee, what is wrong with this picture? So is this another instance where the players are going to have to do the testing to uncover coding errors?

Also, to virtualhabitat; excellent catch of the flawed logic of the pricing algorithm.
 
A

AesSedai

Guest
This is a perfect example of the type of inflation that the game's economy has undergone...
- Aye, and by my reckonin', the duping/cheating of gold and items has greatly magnified everything deemed to be our game's economy.

That is why we need to truncate items and gold, take care of code security, GModerate cheating, and work on the pluses and minuses that is the base economy flow. Not in that order, but that is what is required for economic order; unless more drastic, or too subtle, measures are taken..
As I've looong felt:
we has to multifa{u}cet this attack, err solution. And what I say above, and have suggested, seems to be the most fair (programming intensive & best monetary gain potential - yet we have had said problem, {Houston} EA.
All the while EA, and we, have wanted our game to generate more money and be more of a fair trade economy... yet we the community truly cannot fix this; resources must be provided if we are to fix the lack of: resources and pro/re/active programming that has caused this to occur).

imho
;)
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
With the changes they've made in the past few years to combat bots, such as randomizing ore and wood spawns, as much as I hate to think it, I worry that scripting is actually having a positive effect on the economy of the game at this point. It's also part of why I argue supply side changes for things.

On Chessy Val ingots are averaging 1k per ingot, if scripts were removed from the equation, eventually peoples pre-randomization stocks would vanish and prices would skyrocket.

The Community collections are another example. Would you want to spend 12 mil or months turning in items for a pair of Reading Glasses? I regularly see Mace and Shield glasses in the 9-10 mil range....

I'm not condoning what scripters are doing, I'm just pointing out that unfortunately they are one of the things keeping the economy from being worse.

If they take a hard line on scripting, and other forms of cheating, along with Cash for Pixel sales they will have to at the same time re-evaluate much of what has been put into the game to combat cheating in the past.
1k for val in chessy Holy hell 60 mil for 60k stack. Is anybody buying this. if they are what a awesom opportunity buy from atlantic at 300-350k per 1k val and transfer to sell it in chessy. That would pay for the transfer to and back from chessy if bring a packie of 60k stacks of val with you per transfer. hell just 2 full deeds should way more than make you profit. Can you see if people are actually buying at this price?
 

SixUnder

Legendary Assassin
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
SORRY GUYS BUT THIS THREAD IS 300 POSTS OF REPEATED SAME IDEAS BEING VIEWED FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES AND BEING CHEWED OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

UO IS A SMALL MMORPG AND DEVELOPERS HAVE NO FINANCIAL/PEOPLE/TIME RESOURCES TO IMPLEMENT YOUR SUPER SMART AND SUPER COMPLICATED IDEAS BECAUSE MESSING WITH ECONOMICS WILL REQUIRE MONTHS OF TESTING AND YEARS OF WAITING TO SEE THE RESULTS OF YOUR 1GP GOLD SINKS

WE NEED A SIMPLE, FAST AND INTERESTING FOR EVERYONE SOLUTION TO CONSTANTLY REMOVE HUGE AMOUNTS OF GOLD FROM THE GAME.

SO HERE IS THE IDEA!

MAKE PVM ARENA. LETS CALL IT $SEASON 1 ARENA$

WHEN YOU ENTER ARENA ALL STAT/MOD CAPS ARE REMOVED. WHY? READ FURTHER

BY ENTERING ARENA YOU FACE A BOSS THAT REQUIRE 5-10 PEOPLE TO KILL IT. YOU WILL HAVE NO CHANCE TO KILL THIS BOSS WITHOUT SEASON 1 EQUIPMENT.

LETS SAY SEASON 1 EQUIPMENT WILL HAVE FOLLOWING MODS ON EACH PIECE MR10/MI10/SI10/HPI10 AND SIMILAR MODS ON WEAPONS

EQUIPMENT MUST BE CHARACTER BOUND AND CANT BE USED OUTSIDE OF ARENA.

YOU CAN BUY SEASON 1 EQUIPMENT FROM NPC VENDOR. EQUIPMENT IS ONLY AVAILABLE FOR GOLD FROM THIS VENDOR AND NOWHERE ELSE. WORTH X MILLIONS A PIECE.

BY KILLING SEASON 1 BOSS YOU GET GUARANTEED FEW PIECES OF SEASON 2 EQUIPMENT + SOME GOOD ITEMS THAT CAN BE USED OUTSIDE OF ARENA LIKE OLD ARTIES OR DECORATION STUFF OR MEMORIAL EQUIPMENT WITHOUT MODS

IN NEXT FEW MONTHS YOU MAKE SEASON 2 ARENA

TO KILL SEASON 2 BOSS YOU NEED SEASON 2 EQUIPMENT WITH 20MR/20SI/20MI/20HPI AND SO ON.

IF YOU DIDNT KILL SEASON 1 BOSS OR YOU DIDNT KILL IT ENOUGH TIMES TO GET FULL SUIT OF SEASON 2 EQUIPMENT YOU CAN BUY MISSING PARTS FROM SEASON 2 VENDOR FOR X MILLIONS A PIECE..


IN ADDITION YOU CAN ADD SUPPORTING AMMUNITION TO SEASON VENDORS. LIKE SEASON 1 POTIONS, BANDAGES, ARROWS AND OTHER SPECIAL THINGS THAT MAKE THE FIGHT EASIER.

THIS WILL NOT AFFECT NEWBIES BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO SKILL TO FIGHT THOSE BOSSES AND NO GOLD TO BUY EQUIPMENT.

THIS WILL NOT AFFECT CURRENT BOSSES BECAUSE YOU CANT USE ARENA EQUIPMENT OUTSIDE OF ARENA.

THIS WILL ADD NEW LEVEL OF GAME PLAY TO UO. THIS WILL MOTIVATE PLAYERS TO COMMUNICATE MORE WITH EACH OTHER TO GET GOOD ENOUGH TO EVEN TRY THOSE BOSSES.

THIS WILL REMOVE BILLIONS OF GOLD ON EVERY SHARD MONTHLY AND EVERYONE WILL BE HAPPY BECAUSE THERE WILL BE FINALLY A REASON TO GATHER IN TEAMS AND DO SOMETHING BECAUSE CURRENTLY UO IS BORING - THERE IS NO FUN SOLOING DARK FATHER.

IN ADDITION TO THIS YOU CAN ADD SIMILAR VENDORS OUTSIDE OF ARENA AND SELL THINGS THAT EVERYONE NEED - EQUIPMENT AND AMMUNITION BECAUSE ITS THE ONLY THING THAT EVERYONE WILL BUY. PEOPLE WONT SPEND BILLIONS ON DECORATION GARBAGE.

ALSO YOU NEED TO CONSTANTLY MAKE THIS EQUIPMENT USELESS, LIKE EVERY 3 MONTHS OR SO. SO PEOPLE WILL HAVE REASON TO LOGIN INGAME AND ACTUALLY PLAY IT!

BECAUSE CURRENTLY ONCE YOU MADE YOUR SUPER SUIT WITH ALL-MODS CAP THERE IS NO REASON TO GO ANYWHERE

TO FIX THE GOLD AND ATTRACT NEW PEOPLE TO THIS GAME YOU NEED TO IMPLEMENT SOMETHING NEW. AND THIS NEW THING IS RAIDS.
im disgusted at all these threads.

damn post aos noobies, you cant make gold get a real guild.

dont make this game like wow and the others, all those will die just like the rest and uo is always the last one standing. get a grip.
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
If you don't want to address the amount of gold out there it is of course possible to balance the economy. But instead of a greater heal potion costing 30 gold it now costs 300 or 3,000. I think it would be much easier to go back to the original scale of thousands instead of millions.
Virtualhabitat has it completely right. Doesn't matter if a healing potion cost 3000 as long as the player can sell it for 3000. If the player can only sell the potion for 30 and make it for 3000 then that is a problem. If you chop of 0's as long as the player can sell the potion at 30 gold and make it for less with the relative amount of the shards gold at around those levels thats fine as well. Though if the relative amount of the shards gold is alot higher than today there is no profit in selling a potion for 30 when you can get infinitely more than that with less time doing something else. Let alone selling a potion for 30 gold lets you buy nothing from anywhere else as the relative value of all other items are much higher.

A potion at 30,3000,300000,3000000,3000000000000000
Doesn't matter as long as you can sell to another player another potion for 3000000000000000.
 

aoLOLita

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
WOW! No, not "that WoW! Four pages so far in this thread, and I only finished reading the first one, so far.

Very few SUPER rich do not flaunt their wealth, whether it be through leagal game play or cheating. I think an ostentatious deco item would be an ideal gold sink, and an apropriate one would be a bust or statue of King Midas hued in Neon Gold of course:) Only for those who can enjoy "the lifestyles of the rich and famous, of course"! Such a prized objet d'art would have course be Account bound -nay, make it Character bound! Certainly we wouldn't want the noveau riche and other such riff-raff owning such a status symbol! The Britain "yacht" was what, a mere 150 million? Surely a Golden statue of King Midas - perhaps name the item The Midas Touch - would fetch a paltry 200 million!

As for the poor "poor" new player...

Granted Legends is not a burgeoning metropolis, but I seldom see such an elusive figure! When one is discovered, anyone in game stumbles over themselves to drop 100k or up to a million gp checks, LRC suits, weapons and guild memberships on them! A new player is not financially poor nor ill equipped - not for long! Same with returning players and/or shard-hoppers, Legends outfits them for free and donates a decent nes-egg!
 

Mongbat137

Visitor
Stratics Veteran
Granted Legends is not a burgeoning metropolis, but I seldom see such an elusive figure! When one is discovered, anyone in game stumbles over themselves to drop 100k or up to a million gp checks, LRC suits, weapons and guild memberships on them! A new player is not financially poor nor ill equipped - not for long! Same with returning players and/or shard-hoppers, Legends outfits them for free and donates a decent nes-egg!
I banksit in Haven on Atlantic and see newbies all the time. They maybe get a cheap LRC suit and some runebooks. Which is enough to get them started, but going "HA HA F**K NEWBIES THEIR ENTIRE PLACE IN THE ECONOMY IS TO BE BEGGARS" is beyond idiotic.

It's kinda painful when they ask "So where can I get some armor?" and you're like "Well Luna... but you're killing ettins for 250gp so it'll be months before you can buy the cheapest pair of gloves on the average Luna vendor..."

We need:

1) Massive, massive gold sinks. I don't even know if EA has the discipline for this anymore. Anything that would make a good gold sink, they're likely to just throw onto the code store for two dollars instead.

2) Currency=Currency/10. So that monster loot becomes proportionately more valuable. Loot=Loot*10 does the same thing, but frankly I don't want to be dealing in billions everytime I buy anything. Economics is all psychological and yes there is such a thing as too many zeroes.
 
W

Woodsman

Guest
2) Currency=Currency/10. So that monster loot becomes proportionately more valuable. Loot=Loot*10 does the same thing, but frankly I don't want to be dealing in billions everytime I buy anything. Economics is all psychological and yes there is such a thing as too many zeroes.
That just moves 0s around or hides them as Nexus said, it doesn't actually address the major problems, or rather the major causes that led to those problems.
 

SixUnder

Legendary Assassin
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
High Seas was an economic disaster from top to bottom. Nobody even sells this ship crap anymore, because nobody does it, because there's no economic point. Owning and operating a ship is just a big waste of time and money.
best post i read, 100% correct.
 
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