The 2009 Factions Improvement Program

[Berethrain]

Reset the point system.

Eliminate double kill points.

Fix the ranking system.

The new arties should dissappear in 3 weeks.

These should drop from your person and into your pack when in trammel.

Implement a faction necro reagent vendor.

Get rid of the Red Npcs in Magincia.

 

[Lynk]

Reset the point system.

Eliminate double kill points.

Fix the ranking system.

Implement a faction necro reagent vendor.

Get rid of the Red Npcs in Magincia.

Extend faction PvP into trammel

imo

 

[Cardell]

Reset the point system.

Eliminate double kill points.

Fix the ranking system.

The new arties should dissappear in 3 weeks.

These should drop from your person and into your pack when in trammel.

Implement a faction necro reagent vendor.

Get rid of the Red Npcs in Magincia.

Yup!!

 

[Berethrain]

I would also like to be able to use saw traps in the bases.

 

[Cardell]

I would also like to be able to use saw traps in the bases.

no!

Thats all TB base needs. Stack that little room with poison and saw traps... hell no.

 

[Nonel]

Depends how the ranking system is fixed.

The most powerful group of PvP'ers having almost exclusive access to the faction arties = dead factions.

 

[Cardell]

I wasnt thinking solely of TB base but looking at some of the newer roster in TB, it wouldn't really matter if they stacked explosion in there. It wouldn't help them.

When ever something is implemented dealing the the bases you must first look at TB base. Its the most commonly occupied and fought over. And its the best base.. Add dmg traps inside and a good guild can hold that **** down with ease.

With that being said, a good guild can already hold TB base down with 4 or 5 ppl. It doesnt need any dmg traps inside.

 

[Cardell]

Depends how the ranking system is fixed.

The most powerful group of PvP'ers having almost exclusive access to the faction arties = dead factions.

Yeah, like I said before the devs screwed the faction items up. They HAVE to be tied to getting the sigs.. if not they really dont help the factions all that much.

 

[Berethrain]

The most powerful group of PvP'ers having almost exclusive access to the faction arties = dead factions.

I'm alright with that. It gives the rest an incentive to try harder.

 

[Berethrain]

With that being said, a good guild can already hold TB base down with 4 or 5 ppl. It doesnt need any dmg traps inside.

True, I'm trying to think of why poison traps are allowed but none of the others. Also, what is the balance between the two town factions with guards and the two that aren't. Base design?

 

[Lynk]

Fine.. I'll play nice too.

 

[Berethrain]

To keep the thread from turning into a flamewar and from being locked, my posts regarding TB have been deleted.

 

[Aibal]

I'm alright with that. It gives the rest an incentive to try harder.

The point was, given that scenario, they WON'T try harder, they'll just leave. Talk about unbalancing things.

 

[Berethrain]

The point was, given that scenario, they WON'T try harder, they'll just leave. Talk about unbalancing things.

I don't see the problem here.

 

[Lynk]

Faction artifacts were introduced to encourage new people to join factions. They aren't going to make a change that would force out the under-skilled players.

 

[Berethrain]

Maybe, but they don't become skilled by giving up or relying on faction arties.

 

[Berethrain]

Fine.. I'll play nice too.

Thanks.

 

[Aibal]

Maybe, but they don't become skilled by giving up or relying on faction arties.

If they are less skilled, AND are at an automatic handicap because the MORE skilled players not only have more skill but also have access to items they don't, what is their incentive to play? "Gee, let me die to that guy 50 times because not only is he more skilled but has access to better items than I can get. As a result, his already better skills are enhanced through the use of items that are unobtainable for me and my guild." Uh, yeah right.:loser:

 

[Lynk]

Maybe, but they don't become skilled by giving up or relying on faction arties.

Faction artifacts do not replace skill. They encourage PvP.

Today's UO has caps on all mods. It's not like someone can run around with 6/6 casting.

Faction artifacts allows people to put together a decent suit for PvP and enjoy a part of the game that they wouldn't otherwise be able to enjoy.

They also allow guilds like mine to build characters on a new shard for a reasonable cost. Before if I couldn't find a fight on great lakes I would have to go and pop a despise spawn just so i could get zerg raided by 30 people. Now we can check a few shards and find a decent fight to partake in.

 

[Berethrain]

If they are so underskilled to begin with then chances are they're not going to have access to most of the arties anyways. It's really a moot point.

 

[Berethrain]

Faction artifacts allows people to put together a decent suit for PvP and enjoy a part of the game that they wouldn't otherwise be able to enjoy.

Granted, however a number of the arties are for rank 1 and wouldn't change the ability to wear them if they reset the faction ranks.

 

[Aibal]

Most aren't "underskilled", they just have less experience pvp'ing. It isn't difficult to amass points to wear artifacts, ESPECIALLY if you have large fights like the other night at TB base...I know several new players there that walked away with a bunch of points just because they got the lucky killshot...it's hella more fun than going to yew gate and getting ganked. For those folks, even though they died, they earned some points, learned a few things, and walked away having had a lot of fun. They look forward to coming back. It wouldn't be the same if they got rolled and spent all night in stat with nothing to show for it. Sorry Berethrain, but if you can't see the advantage of them having access to the artifacts and how it CAN draw folks in, you're simply being obtuse about it.

 

[Berethrain]

If they are less skilled, AND are at an automatic handicap because the MORE skilled players not only have more skill but also have access to items they don't, what is their incentive to play? "Gee, let me die to that guy 50 times because not only is he more skilled but has access to better items than I can get. As a result, his already better skills are enhanced through the use of items that are unobtainable for me and my guild."

Most aren't "underskilled", they just have less experience pvp'ing. It isn't difficult to amass points to where artifacts, ESPECIALLY if you have large fights like the other night at TB base...I know several new players there that walked away with a bunch of points just because they got the lucky killshot...it's hella more fun than going to yew gate and getting ganked. For those folks, even though they died, they earned some points, learned a few things, and walked away having had a lot of fun. They look forward to coming back. It wouldn't be the same if they got rolled and spent all night in stat with nothing to show for it. Sorry Berethrain, but if you can't see the advantage of them having access to the artifacts and how it CAN draw folks in, you're simply being obtuse about it.

You just made the argument for me. Thank you.

 

[Aibal]

LOL, there's a reach. I made no "argument" for you. Your viewpoint was that the best PvP'ers should get all the artifacts, and everyone should work harder to get them. My point was that the ability of these folks to get them allowed them to PvP when they otherwise wouldn't. If those folks at the base yesterday weren't wearing level 1 and 4 stuff, they would already have been at a disadvantage. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.

 

[Berethrain]

LOL, there's a reach. I made no "argument" for you. Your viewpoint was that the best PvP'ers should get all the artifacts, and everyone should work harder to get them. My point was that the ability of these folks to get them allowed them to PvP when they otherwise wouldn't. If those folks at the base yesterday weren't wearing level 1 and 4 stuff, they would already have been at a disadvantage. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.

I think you're a bit misguided. The original idea is to fix the faction rank system. Keep in mind this doesn't automatically exclude everyone but the better pvpers from getting artifacts. Even when fixed the players that are less skilled can still access some of the faction arties.

But as you said,

It isn't difficult to amass points to where artifacts, ESPECIALLY if you have large fights like the other night at TB base...I know several new players there that walked away with a bunch of points just because they got the lucky killshot

then fixing the system shouldn't matter anyways. Correct?

To expand on this:

I'm alright with that. It gives the rest an incentive to try harder.

I don't believe these arties should simply be handed over. If so, they would have made them all wearable by rank 1.

My point was that the ability of these folks to get them allowed them to PvP when they otherwise wouldn't.

Yes, and they will still be able to access the arties they'd only be able to wear before the fixed the system.

 

[JC the Builder]

Fix the ranking system

How do you propose to fix the ranking system? I think it is good that only a few people can have the top ranks. I am assuming you want to eliminate that.

The ranking system would also work a lot better if they removed the 3x point bonus and reset all points.

 

[Berethrain]

How do you propose to fix the ranking system? I think it is good that only a few people can have the top ranks. I am assuming you want to eliminate that.

I like the idea of a smaller amount of top ranks. When they uncapped faction population limits, it completely skewed the 10% of those who can have top rank. Let alone the original ranks not ever really working to begin with.


However to get the impression that only these top ranks should be able to access all the faction arties is wrong because most are accessible to those who aren't in the top percentage.

 

[Aibal]

Bere, the ONLY thing meant by the remarks about the large fight was that with SO many targets, some of these folks got lucky in spite of lesser skill levels. When they are at the gate, many/most of them die, usually to ganks, and it's frustrating for them. That is why they chose faction fights for a different kind of PvP. Many of them, myself included, aren't big on the **** talk that goes on either...I know you get that, but it does seem a little less in factions than in straight PvP action.

I agree that the items shouldn't be "handed over"....no argument....but I also don't like the idea that a few persons/guilds of greater skill/organization/abilities should be the only ones to get the best items. To me, this is no different than the point stacking **** going on now that has everyone's panties (rightfully so) in a bunch.

 

[JC the Builder]

I like the idea of a smaller amount of top ranks. When they uncapped faction population limits, it completely skewed the 10% of those who can have top rank.

The best rank is only available to the top 1%, not 10%.

http://www.uoherald.com/guide/guide.php?guideId=208

Factions is meant to be competitive. Removing ranks would be counter-productive.

 

[Berethrain]

The best rank is only available to the top 1%, not 10%.

With either one, there are still far to many.

 

[Berethrain]

some of these folks got lucky in spite of lesser skill levels.

Yes however ganking occurs often, allowing those without as many skills to gain points.

but I also don't like the idea that a few persons/guilds of greater skill/organization/abilities should be the only ones to get the best items.

I disagree.

 

[Aibal]

I disagree.

Then we will agree to disagree lol.

 

[Berethrain]

I think there should be some incentive to have top rank. This is only a few of the faction arties however.

 

[Lynk]

The only problem I have with that is I have 10 different faction PvPers, and that's just on Great Lakes. If you count other shards.. probably closer to 16 faction characters. All of my guys have separate suits, due largely in part to faction gear.

I don't have time to play them all every day.

I usually just 2 of my mages, and the rest kind of sit idle until I need them (harry spawn or something).

Sometimes when no guildies are on I'll jump on my ninja, or my necro archer, or a tamer.

TBH I don't think the arties should be tied to rank, but I do think they should be tied to cities somehow. Perhaps the arties only have special properties if your faction controls a city, otherwise they have normal arty properties? I really don't know the right answer, but I do know I like having fully separate suits and not switching gear from char to char when I get bored with one.

 

[Berethrain]

TBH I don't think the arties should be tied to rank, but I do think they should be tied to cities somehow. Perhaps the arties only have special properties if your faction controls a city, otherwise they have normal arty properties? I really don't know the right answer, but I do know I like having fully separate suits and not switching gear from char to char when I get bored with one.

Well the only way I see to seperate the two, would be to make sure the arties dissappear after the 3 weeks. And whoever controlled the towns could place the arty vendor to buy these again.

(it could also be longer than 3 weeks.)

 

[Lynk]

Well the only way I see to seperate the two, would be to make sure the arties dissappear after the 3 weeks. And whoever controlled the towns could place the arty vendor to buy these again.

(it could also be longer than 3 weeks.)

Ya longer than 3 weeks.. maybe have it tied to actual play time, not RL time. Put a timer on each item (in seconds/minutes/hours) and have the timer count down similar to how talismans do between uses. Higher rank = longer life span?

On average I think its roughly 17k silver per mage/dexer suit. I'm not interested in farming 170k silver every 3 weeks. I'd have to hook my old desktop up and restart an old account and have a silver bot running constantly...

 

[JC the Builder]

The only problem I have with that is I have 10 different faction PvPers, and that's just on Great Lakes. If you count other shards.. probably closer to 16 faction characters. All of my guys have separate suits, due largely in part to faction gear.

If you want to have 16 character in factions that is your choice. However you shouldn't blame the system because you don't have enough time to maintain them all.

 

[Lynk]

If you want to have 16 character in factions that is your choice. However you shouldn't blame the system because you don't have enough time to maintain them all.

Well I don't exploit the Faction/Non-Faction ally bug, so if I want to be a team player with my guild I need to have my PvP chars in factions.

 

[Berethrain]

Ya longer than 3 weeks.. maybe have it tied to actual play time, not RL time. Put a timer on each item (in seconds/minutes/hours) and have the timer count down similar to how talismans do between uses. Higher rank = longer life span?

If it went this route I'd leave it unconnected to rank and have it on an even timer system.

 

[Berethrain]

Well I don't exploit the Faction/Non-Faction ally bug, so if I want to be a team player with my guild I need to have my PvP chars in factions.

This is legit., I don't want to spend large amount of time farming silver either since I have 6 chars of my own in factions.

 

[Aibal]

On average I think its roughly 17k silver per mage/dexer suit. I'm not interested in farming 170k silver every 3 weeks. I'd have to hook my old desktop up and restart an old account and have a silver bot running constantly...

Word. This is my issue too...I have 9 faction chars, though only 5 wear faction items...all so I can be guilded with friends to game with. I don't want to be farming silver constantly, and I refuse to run a bot to do it. I have no issues with changes to the system, as long as it doesn't require constant work to farm silver nor concentrates the best arties in only a few hands.

 

[MiNi MaGi]

why is it when someone makes a harmless post about faction fixes, the emos come out and take over the forum. sad!

 

[Cardell]

True, I'm trying to think of why poison traps are allowed but none of the others. Also, what is the balance between the two town factions with guards and the two that aren't. Base design?

Poison traps are allowed because they are a minorly effective trap that can give you a small advantage. Explosion traps on the other hand are way over powered at COM and TB because of the city zones and guards. Lets face it. The bridge in front of TB and the immediate area around the COM bridge in mag is pretty much part of the faction strong holds. the explosion traps packed up on those bridges are a prime example of why Explosion traps were not ment to be used in the bases.

I think the only way to balance the traps is to restrict the traps to being at least 1 square in all directions apart from each other. This will stop ppl from lining the SL and Minax narrow passages with poison traps which is pretty much the anti stealther bases.

With that being said. They can't do that until they balance out the gaurds issue. Since SL and Minax cannot have guards in front of their base.

 

[Cardell]

How do you propose to fix the ranking system? I think it is good that only a few people can have the top ranks. I am assuming you want to eliminate that.

The ranking system would also work a lot better if they removed the 3x point bonus and reset all points.

To fix the ranks is simply change the system to the way its supposed to be working.

The ranking system will not work as long as the 3x point bonus is around. It in no way shape or form helps.... unless they are trying to inflate the points.. the only thing the new point system brought in was the theif points, even that is too high.. but its a start..

 

[Cardell]

why is it when someone makes a harmless post about faction fixes, the emos come out and take over the forum. sad!

why do **** stain wannabe house hiders talk at all on the faction forums?

 

[Berethrain]

With that being said. They can't do that until they balance out the gaurds issue. Since SL and Minax cannot have guards in front of their base

Yeah, I can't think of any way to balance this unless they just get rid of them.

The ranking system will not work as long as the 3x point bonus is around. It in no way shape or form helps.... unless they are trying to inflate the points.. the only thing the new point system brought in was the theif points, even that is too high.. but its a start..

I've never got 3x bonus points. I'm jealous. I think 1 point per sigil for thieves is decent as long as purifiaction length stays the same.

why do **** stain wannabe house hiders talk at all on the faction forums?

Because my skittles ran out.

 

[Nonel]

I say no points for thieves, period.

Find a way to differentiate between me managing to get a sig out from a seemingly impossible-to-penetrate mage defense in Minax or SL base and some schmuck stealing an undefended sigil from a town and going afk the rest of the day, and I'll reconsider my opening statement.

 

[Zambowow]

Change sigil timers back to 4 hours, even 5 hours is cool but no longer. 10 hours? Come onnnnnn.....who seriously has the life to sit and guard sigils for 10 hours? (Sorry if you have the life to guard them....)

 

[Cardell]

Change sigil timers back to 4 hours, even 5 hours is cool but no longer. 10 hours? Come onnnnnn.....who seriously has the life to sit and guard sigils for 10 hours? (Sorry if you have the life to guard them....)

Casual players and their non-sense.

 

[Lady Michelle]

I think this is a valid question to ask
If they reset the point system Im taking as wiping out the mass points being held what is going to stop them from restacking the points again?