Suggestion: An END to the Stag and other “drops”.

[EvilPixieWorks]

I have sent PMs on this subject… that have been ignored and I would like to put it up for discussion even if it's ignored here as well.

Christmas is coming… the “Stag Drop” needs to be retired as an unfair practice.

Why is it that so few people get loads of these rares… and so many get nothing? If it's not the super fast speed of the EM running the Stag, or whatever is dropping the rares, only other super fast players are able to pick the rares up. The majority of us loose out every single time. All this does is make a few people extremely rich because so many get left out in the cold. This has been going on for some time now and I don’t see it as fun or honest. It's also known that some people use illegal 3rd party programs that can pick up anything in site. They profit from this practice. When you see these items on vendors… why is it always several on 1 vendor? Doesn’t that support the idea only the few get the profit from a faulty idea?

It's time we rethink this holiday event. Why hand out frustration for the holidays. Whoever runs the Stag isn’t going to hand out gifts to attentive players around the shard? Even then, easily a few could end up with bag-fulls the same as the drops.

Here’s my idea. One more impressive improvement I have seen from the EM events is the 1 time only statue or NPC that hands out sashes or other goodies. Normally this is hidden in a remote area and reserved for events. Each character can only get 1 item. Great idea! Whoever designed it was thinking. Why can't something like this be used to dish out holiday goodies? As if it were a “Father Christmas”, going into a bag and handing out 1 of 5+ random rares. Far more people would get a treat. Far less people would profit from cheating. Far less people would be collecting bag-fulls to transfer to other shards. Far less will be making billions of gold from a system that is unfair and unjust. Even putting it in a cave for a few remote 1 way gates would limit it even more… but at least everyone would get a shot vs. basically a small handful. Fact is people love the odd treats, no matter how silly some people think it is.

Anyways… that’s the idea. Please consider it.

 

[Bennu]

As both Spriggan and I are both brand new EMs, I will admit I have no idea what the 'stag drop' is. From the context I will assume you mean something that just runs around and drops items randomly?

Item rewards are constantly a tricky thing, if there are too few, people complain, if there are too many, people complain, if someone doesn't get something but everyone else does, they complain, if that same person gets something but no one else does, the only person that doesn't complain is that person... see where I am going with this? People only complain when they are the ones missing out on a certain item.

There is no 'perfect' system. The loot systems that the EMs use are designed to remove all hints of favoritism and put everyone on an even playing field within the context of the particular event. Unfortunately this CAN mean that lesser powerful characters sometimes do not get looting rights, people on slow connections can not pick up items as fast as others can... But if its not one thing, it is another, you know?

I have tried to be 'creative' with the way I hand out rewards, on mobs, on ground to grab, locked down and stealable... all giving a chance for an item to various play styles.

However, I can say that 'handing out' 1 to 5 items to players individually is a logistical nightmare and incredibly inefficient. (See the recent pumpkin thing where we had over 200 players locked in a room trading pumpkins with 2 EMs and Mesanna. And another 50 people screaming outside because they were locked out.)

Both Spriggan and I are fully dedicated to allowing maximum participation across the large spectrum of play styles. This does NOT mean that every play style will have equal chance at every item drop, its just not possible to balance the 'chance' like that. However we can provide a variety of item rewards, and vary our methods a bit to open things up.

Take recent events for example, some monsters have been totally untargetable/damageable by tamers, others locked out Melee, and even others totally reflected any magic thrown at them. We do these 'little' changes to mix things up a bit so that every class gets an even shake and no 'type' comes into every event and walks away with the house.

To be blunt: Random = Fair, Fair = No Favoritism, Fair = Random, No Favoritism = Fair. Anything else gets sticky, very, very fast.

Also, please keep in mind (As stated in our introduction threads) that we are NOT able to reply to Stratics Private Messages. This doesn't mean you are being ignored, it only means that we can not reply, not that we can not read what you wrote. If you want a reply you will need to email us at [email protected] or [email protected] or both.

 

[Faeryl]

Bennu - The Solstice Stag was something that EMs Nestor and Eris did for Christmas last year. Essentially they would appear as a white hart in a random city at a random time of day, dropping random goodies as they ran and teleported around the city. It typically only lasted a couple minutes at a time...

They did the same type of thing with the Easter Bunny dropping carrots too.

 

[EvilPixieWorks]

Say… thanks for the nice response!

See? I don’t open up a complaint about an issue without offering some kind of solution. All the issues you mentioned in your post, you and I actually had a conversation about when you came to visit my town “The Red & Purple Pixies of the Yew Wood” and yes… that was complete with a small warning about how people complain and complain like you mentioned. Yes, I was also at the Jacko event last week, or whatever it was, and I was defending the chaos on another thread. Honestly, the lag… no matter how long passes, what upgrades I do, the extremely limited money at my disposal for my computer… I never really have any problems in UO until I go to an EM event. No offence! It's hard fighting the masses and I’m all about the community, not just collecting items my own museum.

I’m actually a little surprised you don’t know anything about the Stag-Drop… but I trust you will soon enough. Faeryl hit it on the head. I think the first holiday we had EMs… they were handing out Easter Eggs. I was told they would just pop up wherever you were, hand you an egg after frightening you to death, and go on their merry way. I was in game all day long, Easter… never saw this. I don’t know what they do on your shard, but a little extra something is a wonderful thing… no matter how people complain UO is turning into an item based world.

I’ve also been at the Destruction of Maginica… where nasty demons would explode and shake items loose all over the island. Time an time again, I saw scripters automatically picking up every speck of dust. These programs do exist. You could always tell because after the explosion, the player would be standing off on the side throwing out all the trash he didn’t want. Most of the time, you could be standing next to a real choice rubble palm tree, and yet someone would run past and take it out of your fingers. Automatically.

This is why dropping rares and treats on the ground is a horrible idea and I’m not saying this just for me, I’m saying this for the bulk of the community. If you don’t think what I was saying is true about 1 vendor having a dozen rare drops from the Stag? Check out the next rares festival. The one on Pac, I went to a few months ago… many of the vendors were packed with these event rares.

Trust me. This request is not for selfish reasons. I’m all about the community and I have been for many years. The Red & Purple Mall was even doing a Christmas event every year, just to give a little fun back to the greater community. The Father Christmas event. Many vets will remember this. People seamed to really love it. It's very true, no matter what you do… someone is always complaining. That is part of the whole UO world. Still… stay strong. At least you are listening and that’s more then I can say for others.

 

[Smoot]

Bennu you seem to be just the kind of EM that i think the game needs.

One tip, Either GREATLY increase event drops, or dont advertise events at all in game. Theres so many people at them just to get the one, 3 or 10 drops that they instantly sell for 100 million gold. All they want is the gold, which they can easily get from a person with billions to spend.


Back on topic, i really didnt see any problem with the stag thing. It was a fun little thing. I got 3 cookies, but ate 2. But i was alone at brit bank, not chasing the white deer around and didnt know people would pay millions for them. When i saw the solstice stag frenzy i thought of the old late night brit bank days when people would start dropping 1mil checks to watch the poor running around after them haha. Anyway, of course a person that doesnt really have a job or do anything except UO is going to get more stuff. I see no problem with that. If really want a gingerbread cookie, then buy it for 10 mil.

(Im not going to mention people with looting programs, because, well theres really nothing going to be done about that)

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Bennu you seem to be just the kind of EM that i think the game needs.

One tip, Either GREATLY increase event drops, or dont advertise events at all in game. Theres so many people at them just to get the one, 3 or 10 drops that they instantly sell for 100 million gold. All they want is the gold, which they can easily get from a person with billions to spend.

The first part I agree with you 100%. He and Sprig both are among the best (if not the best) I have seen in the years I have played. They are both very active and are doing a great job at balancing things between playstyles. Yes a few pvp'ers will still complain about nothing for them yet but I would be willing to bet one day the evil ones and the goody goody crowd will meet on the field of battle. It's inevitable in my mind. Good and evil almost always meet and the mayhem ensues. I am gonna have to figure out a way to play 2 characters on the same account when it happens tho

I think they are doing a good to almost great job on the number of drops and how often they actually have them. There have been several different mini-events where nothing has dropped of value. Do all the people attend those? No. They wait for the major ones just to be able to get the gold from the sell. And that is fine too. Everybody has their own playstyle. I for one do not go to events in order to snag the event item. I go to be a part of the shard, part of the story line. Have I in the process put some gold in my pocket by doing so? Yepp, sure have. Have I also taken gold out of my pocket to by one of the past items? Oh yeah, lots.

The age old problem of you can't please everyone none of the time still holds true. Balance is what's needed. No matter what is done or what is not done, somebody, somewhere is gonna be pissed off about it. It's inevitable. These 2 we have now are still in the process of tweeking, and maintaining WAY more balance than the ones before them.

Just my .02 tho *shrugs*

 

[Smoot]

Great post Kylie. What i kinda mean about the event drops is that id rather have 40 drops worth maybe 10 mil, than 3 worth 100 mil. It would just make things more fun for all i think. But thats just me. I kinda just wish i could go to an event and not be able to play because of the number of people and the lag, which is why i think the events should not be advertised as much in game, maybe have them announced just at the EM buildings. Is that one in Malas still even there? I dont think ive been there in over a year. People who really care about the events would still know when they are, but luna (of course the city of greed haha) wouldnt alert the masses who are only seeking gold. I know i check UOEM Atlantic alot, but lately the events arent even posted there. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Bennu]

Is that one in Malas still even there? I dont think ive been there in over a year.

People who really care about the events would still know when they are, but luna (of course the city of greed haha) wouldn't alert the masses who are only seeking gold. I know i check UOEM Atlantic alot, but lately the events arent even posted there. Just my 2 cents.

If an event is announced it is posted on the UOEM website, always. Then 90% of the time it is also posted here in the stratics EM forum, and sometimes copied as a news story on the stratics news feed for atlantic.

However, we do have unannounced events, there are two types that I can think of off hand.

#1: Event's that we can setup with minimal effort and run by ourselves. These are in general no rewards, smaller and seemingly random events. (An Example would be the recent Bellatrix Adhara graveyard events that gave out the hint books for the 'big event' that we had on Monday) This type of event is ALWAYS announced in chat channels (General, CruxAnsata, atlantic rp, and also in the EM Event channel if there is one up.) and also the events crier is used.

These events are supposed to make the world feel like a living and breathing place for people who are logged in and in the world interacting.

#2: Some "Live Arc" Events are unannounced by design, the Bane Chosen were not going to announce ahead of time when they invaded Yew for example. These are also announced via the events crier and the chat channels above, or at least that was how we did the Yew one.

EVERY announced event is posted on the website. If you know how the RSS Feed thing works, I highly suggest using it as it will help keep track of when we post a new news story.

The Rewards Hall in Malas is still there, and still in use. I recently redesigned it shortly after Nestor left and held an event there. It is mainly used to lock down item rewards and such so that people can see them. The Teleporter is right next to the EM hall in Britain.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

What i kinda mean about the event drops is that id rather have 40 drops worth maybe 10 mil, than 3 worth 100 mil. It would just make things more fun for all i think. But thats just me. I kinda just wish i could go to an event and not be able to play because of the number of people and the lag

Thanks, and same to you. I am not sure but I think they are limited by higher up's in the numbers and maybe even frequency they can actually have the reward items. I bet in his first event Sprig must have pushed the envelope on the numbers lol. Something like 13 books 9 staffs 5 water spirits and 1 tooth - but no partridge inaa pear tree . I don't think I have ever seen those kind of numbers in the past. Although I did miss quite a few of them because I was fed up with the lag fest they had become. They even seem to be trying to combat the huge lag monster by seperating the crowd some via two gates and locations when possible. Like the one when the blockade was removed from the cave etc. But they are at the mercy of the servers (and we know Atlantic has been getting mugged), our isp's and our systems.

As far as the stag items go, IF they decide to go that route this year. Maybe they could look at something like grounding X amount of them somewhere like a forest outside of Yew then hit Luna or WBB and pop a gate for those that are there. Instead of just running around Luna bank and the surrounding area. Not really sure how the old stag did it because I was on a brief hiatus. Maybe that would give those with the slower connection a better chance at snagging some. Just a suggestion.

Don't get me wrong, I have never been a kiss a$$. I would be the first one looking for an EM Bennu or EM Spriggan pumkin or JOL to burn in effigy if they were not doing good and they would need a flame proof suit around here

 

[Smoot]

Thanks a ton Bennu for the explanation of how the events are announced. It was very helpful. Thanks again for all the effort you guys take to make the game better for all.

Kylie, im thanks for your response I guess im just thinking of the events maybe a year or 2 ago, where the event drops were maybe double or triple what you listed. Im not gonna complain tho, (except for the lag of course ) i just like to experience the events, and if i get something cool its a plus.

 

[EM Spriggan]

Bennu's pretty much spot on with all this. I just want to throw in about the event rewards, there are some specific limits that Bennu and I have to go with. The books from the event on Tuesday didn't count towards the limit in that case.

 

[catfish154]

First off i'd like to say you guys are doing a fine job as EMs. My main issue with events and i know i'm beating a dead horse is lag. My question is, can you guys possibly make items drops go into our backpacks like an arty drop, instead of being on the corpses of things. I know its very frustrating to be fighting your rear end off and then get lagged up for so long or die and keep getting drobed that you cant make it to the corpse or even find it in the time you have before it turns public. I hate to think that i busted my rear end at a chance for a cool item, only to lose it due to not being able to find or loot the corpse in time before someone else grabs it. Does that make any sense to anyone?

 

[Bennu]

First off i'd like to say you guys are doing a fine job as EMs. My main issue with events and i know i'm beating a dead horse is lag. My question is, can you guys possibly make items drops go into our backpacks like an arty drop, instead of being on the corpses of things.

It is a fair enough idea, however we as EMs do not have that capability at all. I understand the frustration though.

 

[EvilPixieWorks]

My question is, can you guys possibly make items drops go into our backpacks like an arty drop, instead of being on the corpses of things.

A great idea and yet the scripters still loose out... like they should. At least someone else is thinking. Stag drops included!

 

[Andrasta]

I love my eggs and carrots and Christmas cookies!

It's something I can afford to collect. I love these drops!

 

[Skrag]

To what extent is an EM able to dictate what a creature drops? If you want to distribute Widget X, could you make it drop as loot on a creature and then just spawn a bunch to be killed?

As to the nature of any rewards, an example of a thought I've had...

Take an existing minor artifact. Do not change it's base type or stats at all. Change the hue and name. Then splatter it around everywhere, have it drop off everything that dies if you want, who cares?

In terms of game balance you've done nothing. The item itself has no actual function that isn't already fulfilled by an existing minor artifact which exists by the thousands.

In terms of the rares market, the item is unique enough to be valuable but will exist in large enough numbers that it won't go for a billion gold while people try to figure out how to dupe it.

Everyone goes away happy because they got something shiny that they wouldn't have if they hadn't showed up.

People that complain because too many people got something are greedy pricks and should be told to STFU. Those are NOT people you should be listening to.

Hell, work up alt-named versions of SEVERAL very common low-end artifacts, then have them drop at random off of things. The players coming in cold won't even know how many different things there ARE. They'll be running around nuts trying to get one of everything before the event ends.

Have a couple rare things you give away in the usual fashion based on whatever criteria you like. But sling some crap around for the plebs.

People like getting stuff and as long as it's not screwing up game balance, well, why not?