Stygian Abyss : this is REALLY disappointing

[Trebr Drab]

The difference is, Ailish, that no one would be taking your rewards if you did.

 

[Pink Dragoness]

Powerscrolls are expensive and become a problem for entrying players only because over the years this has been allowed.

Personally, I think this as damn wrong.

Because the players playing in felucca can play in trammel also (and do their PvM at free will) but many of those playing in trammel are cut out from important items in the game.

This is wrong, and, to my opinion, bad design.

PvP should be supported in OTHER ways (and Factions are one of those great ways), certainly cutting out a great chunk of players from items vital to game play like Powerscrolls is NOT a good way to sponsor PvP, IMHO.

I would like to say, that I do not PvP but I know how too. I was raised in Felucca years ago, seen what happened when Trammel came into play. I dont agree with champion power scrolls being made available on the non PvP facets. I as a trammy player understand the virtue not value of the power scrolls associated with the champion regions in Felucca. For the price, I think gold is made so available, anyone could buy one. *ching ching*

Now for stackables:

FOR FIVE YEARS I HAVE BEEN *BEGGING* FOR JEWELRY BOX

oh pls tell Santa early
cheers

 

[Ailish]

The difference is, Ailish, that no one would be taking your rewards if you did.

They very rarely take them from me in Fel. But then, I put just as much effort into learning how to prevent reward loss in Fel as I did in figuring out how to do Travesty in Tram. And you missed the part where I said I think if he doesnt want to go to the effort, he should have to buy them. Goes both ways.

*By the way, I have been known to HELP "Trammie" guilds who I find doing spawns in Fel, simply because they had the pluck to do it. I respect that. I have been known to TEACH "Trammie" guilds how to do spawns in Fel, because I respected their willingness to try. My current alliance INCLUDES a "Trammie" guild, because we respect that they are willing to learn.

 

[Viper09]

Originally Posted by Viper09
And if powerscrolls do get introduced in tram zones, they will have the option to turn their useless powerscrolls into something more useful.

Just what would the unique (hard to obtain) reward for risking completing a champion spawn in Fellucia be if powerscrolls were available in trammel facets? 1/6 skulls for a harrower? HmMz...?
I'm all for scroll binders though! They sound kool x

I don't give a damn about risk for reward...
Edit: At least what you consider to be risk vrs reward. Which only consists of PvP and nothing else.
I am not asking for powerscrolls to be introduced into tram and personally don't want them to.

My point was simply that IF they get introduced trammies like popps will actually like this scroll binder thing.

But the entire post, which you didn't bother quoting, was all directed at popps to tell him to stop whining about it. Clearly he doesn't go to fel hence this thread.

 

[Vyal]

This thread blows . . .

 

[popps]

No, actually, I prefer to fight with experienced PvPers.

Well, are all PvPers like that who look for a challenge ?

I have seen multiple times in Felucca players getting ganged even 5-6 on 1 so please, do not come tell me that PvP in Felucca is all fine and dandy.

And in regards to powerscrolls, personally I doubt that the reason is PvP and I more think it is all about the HUGE revenues that powerscrolls bring.

If we had statistics of all the scrolls sold in Trammel over the years I am not sure how many zeros we would need for that figure................

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

TEH SKI IZ FALEHN!

 

[altarego]

Why has this thread not been locked? It's the same whining back and forth; unless the devs want to commit further comment, end it, please.

 

[Tina Small]

Well, are all PvPers like that who look for a challenge ?

I have seen multiple times in Felucca players getting ganged even 5-6 on 1 so please, do not come tell me that PvP in Felucca is all fine and dandy.

And in regards to powerscrolls, personally I doubt that the reason is PvP and I more think it is all about the HUGE revenues that powerscrolls bring.

If we had statistics of all the scrolls sold in Trammel over the years I am not sure how many zeros we would need for that figure................

Popps, I suspect there are many people who PvP who do not go for power scrolls simply to turn around and sell them to raise gold/cash. I know quite a few people who PvP on multiple shards and are CONSTANTLY starting new characters. They travel to new shards to find new people to fight, or to catch up with some old favorites from the past. The new characters these folks make need power scrolls. Something else that is common is soulstoning skills to try out new skills, which also generates a need for power scrolls. A lot of guilds, especially the smaller close-knit ones, dump the scrolls no one wants at the moment, into a common chest so they're available later when someone builds a new character.

I'm just guessing here, but I'd say that at least 2/3rds, if not more, of the people who PvP rarely get involved in selling the items they get from spawning or PvPing. They may trade components of their gear on occasion to get something different or sell a scroll or two that they won in a dice roll and never had a reason to use. However, I just don't think there are the numbers of people that you think there are who PvP for a steady flow of revenue, virtual or real. I'd even go so far as to say I think that there's probably the same number of people who PvM or play a merchant with their main goal to make revenue, virtual or real.

 

[kelmo]

Popps, I suspect there are many people who PvP who do not go for power scrolls simply to turn around and sell them to raise gold/cash. I know quite a few people who PvP on multiple shards and are CONSTANTLY starting new characters. They travel to new shards to find new people to fight, or to catch up with some old favorites from the past. The new characters these folks make need power scrolls. Something else that is common is soulstoning skills to try out new skills, which also generates a need for power scrolls. A lot of guilds, especially the smaller close-knit ones, dump the scrolls no one wants at the moment, into a common chest so they're available later when someone builds a new character.

I'm just guessing here, but I'd say that at least 2/3rds, if not more, of the people who PvP rarely get involved in selling the items they get from spawning or PvPing. They may trade components of their gear on occasion to get something different or sell a scroll or two that they won in a dice roll and never had a reason to use. However, I just don't think there are the numbers of people that you think there are who PvP for a steady flow of revenue, virtual or real. I'd even go so far as to say I think that there's probably the same number of people who PvM or play a merchant with their main goal to make revenue, virtual or real.

*smiles* I have yet to sell a power scroll. I have bought some at pretty decent prices. I have never paid more than 4 million for a 120. That was years ago for a mage scroll.

From my experience. The guilds take care of themselves first. After that what happens with the scrolls is they are rolled off as loot. Then the player can do as they will.

 

[LordTesla]

Scroll binders:
http://uoherald.com/guide/guide.php?guideId=280 The official information, not the scaremongering rumours.

I WANNA SCREAM!!! BRILLIANT!

Trust me when I say this the most brilliant idea ever, and I am one of those "Elite" that do champs and use Despise as a home... Trust me this is BRILLIANT!

We have SO MANY freaking scrolls, to combine them in a manner like 8 115's will cause a 120 birth... BRILLIANT!

Take it from me, leave this in the game, and use it for other types of scrolls as well... Again... BRILLIANT!!! I need an Advil after all this screaming BRILLIANCE!

 

[kalzaketh]

if it bothers you that entirely much, shut down your ultima accounts and don't use powerscrolls, then you won't have to worry about being in the minority

 

[ClayPigeon]

I really think you are taking a poor view of this change. I am an almost 8 year veteran of UO. I remember when Powerscrolls were added to the game. I think it was something on the order of 3 years before I ever even SAW a 120 being offered for sale, and I probably don't even need to mention that the price was obscene. As the market has slowly saturated with PS over the years, I have seen several things happen.

I have shuddered at the prices I paid for some of my scrolls eons ago as compared to todays prices.

I want to cry over a few of the prices I passed over when I look at todays prices.

These things fluctuate with market demand as all things do. We could go round and round about the brokenness of the UO economy, and the monopoly of the Fel guilds on Powerscroll distribution rights, but ultimately UO is a SLAVE to the basic fundamental principle of economics... Supply and Demand.

Create a system which will increase supply, leave demand the same, and freak-it! Prices WILL FALL! Imagine that, the fundamentals of economics hard at work in your UO. This WILL apply to powerscrolls. Right now I am flabbergasted to hear that these guilds just leave 105's and 110's - even 115's! - to rot! Not shocked mind you, but horrifed.

Scroll binders will give these guys an economic reason - that little thing called demand - to pick these up and take them home, slap them into a scroll binder and then sell them on a vendor, because the fact that they can be combined up means that 105's suddenly have an economic value (well they do have a value right now, but they can get more gold hunting mongbats than they do from a 105 scroll).

I think it will make it fully accessible in general for ALL UO players. I do not see a UO where everyone sits around trying to combine up 110's to 115's to 120's and then selling those... I see them slapping their 5 105's into a binder and dropping that on a vendor... Because they can't sell 5 105 Blacksmithing scrolls individually (sheesh throw one on the ground at the bank.... you can't even get someone to pick them up for FREE!), but they probably could sell them in a binder.

You are also presuming that these guys are like those shadowmen that you always see in the movies... They sit around in dark smoky rooms and plan how they are going to get you and ruin your life by price-fixing 120 Magery scrolls to unsellable levels... It just doesn't work that way dude, I'm sorry.

Ultimately they want money for that scroll - or else they would just use it themselves, and they have to set a price which the market will support (I will grant you that the definition of "what the market supports" is completely wonky in a UO economy, but the fundamentals still hold).

So now, since 105 * 8 = 110 = 115 = 120, etc etc... The supply of ALL higher level scrolls will increase driving prices down. The supply of lower level scrolls wll decrease, driving prices up - but you can hardly complain... I bought a slather of 110's the other day simply because they were 1K a piece and once upon a time I was paying 100s of thousands... Eventually an equilibrium will be reached wherein some vendors will begin to offer solitary 105s and 110s...

This is not the end of UO, and you don't need them to drop in Trammel. You are presuming that you MUST hunt your own... You are presuming that you have to get 1000 105's from Champ spawns. Give the economy some time to adjust to the new levels and the economic principals say you will be seeing record low prices on higher levels of powerscrolls than EVER before... And the lower 105's will be plentiful and cheap in binders which you can buy to supplement your attempts at creating your own 120... after all, just because it sounds impossible to hunt 1000 of these up doesn't mean there aren't 1000 of them out there to be traded and wheeled and dealed for to create your very own 120.

Frankly I look forward to it

 

[Amber Moon]

Why oh why....
This thread had almost died.....

 

[MoneyMaker]

One last comment, going all the way back to Popps original post.
You complained about it not being a fix for seed storage or T-maps.
Well they did make seeds stackable by type and color. IMO that is a step in the right direction. Sooner or later they will make seed jars.
The main point you do not pay attention too, is that for a system to be implemented they have to try to plug all possible holes that can be used to dupe or get around the rules. I am not saying that all holes are plugged, just the obvious ones are, and others, later as they are discovered.

Oh, Popps. Figured that you didn't know about the Oaks spawn in the T2A. Reds 99% of the time stay well clear of that spawn for obvious reasons. Not to mention that almost every time that I go there, to harvest some SOTs and 105's, there is no one around......ever.
I can go there and work the spawn for hours without harassment.
Just a side note for you also. Getting your 120 at all, is more than just a jaunt to fel and do a spawn. I can definitely understand why most people charge the prices that they do. Your highest priced scrolls are that way because of the rate they drop and the demand for them.
You can't tell me that if you went to fel and worked your butt off to get a 120 magery, that you would simply go to new haven and drop it too a new player, just because he seen it as too much of a challenge to work his char up the same way that the rest of us have.
If you ask me (which you didn't, but I will give you my opinion any damn way.) too many of the new players are being helped too the point that it has seriously handicapped them. I see so many new players running around demanding 1 mil checks from players at the bank.
They will appreciate it more if they have too earn it as so many of us have before them. The last thing I want is a game that reminds me of the mindless whining I hear daily from under achievers.
If you don't like a challenge then UO is not for you.

 

[popps]

Just a side note for you also. Getting your 120 at all, is more than just a jaunt to fel and do a spawn. I can definitely understand why most people charge the prices that they do. Your highest priced scrolls are that way because of the rate they drop and the demand for them.

Hmmm, really ?
Not perhaps because scrolls are left out of the market to push their value up ?

I think that if there are players who felt having to go out of their way and transfer to unpopulated shards to run spawns for a week or two and then bring all of the scrolls back to their home shards, this shows to me that Champ Spawn dynamics as they are are not right and would need serious working on them.

I have a feeling that what helped pricing was not the original Champ Spawns but these transferring players to unpopulated shards who, somehow, attempted to break the Monopolies.

Too bad, though, that they had to CHANGE SHARD to break the Monopolies because that could not be done or hardly possible, on their home shard.

Designers can make Scroll binders, but it won't help a tiny bit "if" the Zerg Guilds are let to run their Spawns monopolies.

They will keep control of those Spawns and do as they please with all scrolls coming from them. Scroll Binders will be unable to change things much because the real issue is not lack of scrolls or the offer of them, but the real issue is the MONOPOLY of the spawns.

Unless something is seriously done to BREAK these Monopoly and allow all other players to hunt their scrolls, Scroll Binders won't change much since the spawns have been and will remain tight in control of the Zerg Guilds who will do as they please with the supply of those scrolls.

If you don't like a challenge then UO is not for you.

Well, I guess it all depends what one may consider a challenge.

Is ganking another player 5-6 or 10 vs.1 challenging ?

Is it challenging for the Zerg Guilds uber fitted and with all best mods possible working in their favour to keep control of the Champ Spawns ?

I hear this word challenge a whole lot, but in the end it is most often spoken by those who already have the upper hand thanking to their extremely superior mods, gear and weapons...

If we were talking of a game where ONLY skills mattered, then yes, I could agree with you.

Then items, modifiers and all that nonsense would have no effect on a fight result.

It would only be a player's skill versus another player's skill.

Unfortunately, this is not the case and we have uber fitted players with the best mods maxed out taking onto players who are no match at all given their vast inferior outfitting.

This is no challenge at all.

Items killed the real challenge in the game.

The way I see it, chances are that people win because of modifiers not necessarily because they fight better otherwise, there would not be this rush and madness craving for "godly" items.............

That's at least my opinion on the subject.

 

[Sneaky Que]

"It's a long way to the top, if you wanna rock n roll!" - AC/DC

The same applies to PvP in UO. If you are not prepared to put in the time and the effort to learn, then don't come crying about the rewards available to those who have.

This thread is a disgrace, and very disappointing to see right at the top of U.Hall right before an expansion. What kind of message is the thread title "Stygian Abyss : this is REALLY disappointing" sending to former/future players who are considering signing up?

The way I see it, binders are not going to have that great an impact at all, you are still going to need to get off your backside and go do the spawn to fill the things, which for some people is just too much to ask it seems. It only makes lesser scrolls more valuable.

To those of you saying we need jewelry cases etc, I 110% agree. I also agree they probably should of come before this scroll binder thing.

 

[Tina Small]

To those of you saying we need jewelry cases etc, I 110% agree. I also agree they probably should of come before this scroll binder thing.

I don't disagree that it would be nice to have jewelry boxes. However, I wonder if the developers think a lot of people will unravel large amounts of their stored stuff, lowering the priority for jewelry boxes because less jewelry will be stored.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

*shakes thread*

 

[Heimi]

This thread is a disgrace, and very disappointing to see right at the top of U.Hall right before an expansion. What kind of message is the thread title "Stygian Abyss : this is REALLY disappointing" sending to former/future players who are considering signing up?

QFT. Wake up mods

 

[popps]

"It's a long way to the top, if you wanna rock n roll!" - AC/DC

The same applies to PvP in UO. If you are not prepared to put in the time and the effort to learn, then don't come crying about the rewards available to those who have.

I think that is only in theory.

In reality, most players are put down by too much an uphill "catching up" with existing players and it might work as a deterrant towards joining the game.

And, with less new entries the game suffers for reduced subscriptions which means reduced support and new content......

This thread is a disgrace, and very disappointing to see right at the top of U.Hall right before an expansion. What kind of message is the thread title "Stygian Abyss : this is REALLY disappointing" sending to former/future players who are considering signing up?

Do people merely read titles of threads or they actually read the Posts inside the threads ?
The thread is not about the all expansion but about simply something that it brings.

Reading the posts easily clarifies this.

The way I see it, binders are not going to have that great an impact at all, you are still going to need to get off your backside and go do the spawn to fill the things, which for some people is just too much to ask it seems. It only makes lesser scrolls more valuable.

And who benefits from this ?

Those monopolist Zerg Guilds who keep the Champ Spawns under tight control.
Of course Scroll Binders will not change the current Status Quo, because they do not address the root of the problem, the Monopoly of the Spawn itself.

To those of you saying we need jewelry cases etc, I 110% agree. I also agree they probably should of come before this scroll binder thing.

It was my initial complaint.

When I saw that programming time was chosen to be used for Scroll Binders which will only (or mostly) benefit those few who already benefitted HUGELY over the past 6-7 years because of the Monopoly of Cham Spawns, I really got upset thinking that this programming time could have instead been used, for example, to make Treasure Maps Binders, seed jars, jewellery cases and other organizers needed by a waaaaaaaaay vaster majority of players.

What I wanted to argue was the choice of the Design Team to use their limited time to help fewer players who, over the years ALREADY had huge benefits/revenues from powerscrolls instead of a much larger mass of players who deal daily with Treasure Maps, Seeds, Jewels and so forth.

Personally, I think that since the design time is limited, it should first go for something which more players will benefit from and then, if time remains, address and benefit smaller groups.

Besides, the Monopolist Zerg Guilds have made such huge revenues over Powerscrolls over the past years that I can hardly see them as a group in need of any help from the Design Team.......

Yet, this help to them is coming with the Scroll binders, go figure........

And no, as you also said and I think alike, Scroll Binders will not change much the current state of things because they do nothing at all to break the current Monopolies.

Those Zerg guilds who kepts 120s under tight control before, now will ALSO include the other minor scrolls under that tight control and manage the release of 120s so as not to have prices drop much if at all.

The REAL issue is making changes that CAN effectively break the monopolies of the Spawns, anything else, IMHO, is not gonna help much.

 

[popps]

QFT. Wake up mods

Do people merely read titles of threads or they actually read the Posts inside the threads ?
The thread is not about the all expansion but about simply something that it brings.

Reading the posts easily clarifies this.

As I see it, the thread is entirely legit as it discusses an upcoming change to the game and its impact to the game overall.

Those who do not like the argument can simply skip reading it.

 

[Harlequin]

The thread is not about the all expansion but about simply something that it brings.

In that case, would you mind editing your first post and renaming the title to something that more accurately reflects the issue? Like :

Scroll Binders : this is REALLY disappointing

 

[Petra Fyde]

To reflect the real issue you would need to change the title completely, because all this really is, is yet another demand for power scrolls in trammel.

Time it moved to where it really belongs.

 

[popps]

To reflect the real issue you would need to change the title completely, because all this really is, is yet another demand for power scrolls in trammel.

Time it moved to where it really belongs.

Well, if the title was the problem I could have changed it.

Was not given any time to edit it though........

 

[Heimi]

3 days isn't time?

 

[Viper09]

3 days isn't time?

lmao. QFT