Something for those who claim EA and other gaming companies can't prevent cheating

[Captn Norrington]

Found this story while browsing the internet. Completely disproves the claims that gaming companies can't do anything about cheating/scripting. It would be nice if UO did things like this to fight the illegal third party programs.

League of Legends cheating service owes Riot Games $10 million

TLDR: A company that made scripts and cheats in the game League of Legends now owes the game $10,000,000 and all their websites are shut down.

 

[Herp!]

Only reason it was illegal is because it required a paid subscription. They legitimately cannot do anything if there is no paid subscription.
Edit: The world of Patent/IP law is a scary place nowadays. If you do not require a monthly sub, but instead make all of your money via donation, you are somehow considered as not profiting from another person's IP. Just to give more information on the matter. Sometimes companies just can't do it.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

;The problem is, LoL is top shelf in the world of competitive E-sports, while 99.99% of EA games are rehashed remakes that have been around since the 1990s or earlier even. Without the E-sports backing, there is no legal reasoning for EA to sue, at least not a good one that would bring in a profitable result. Lets be honest, EA has always drug its feet, going back to Garriot's repeated attempts to regain right to the Ultima property. Had EA been more proactive throughout the years and more competitive in nature in the E-sports scene, maybe then this story might have made a difference for UO.

 

[Smoot]

the most popular, and most advertised multiboxing software is paid subscription. coincidence that League isnt on their list of supported games?

Fact of the matter is that Mesanna is flat out lazy and rather collect her payoff from EAs antiquated structure than provide a quality gaming experience, or any attempt to collect $10 million.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

@Smoot, you realize that if it weren't for Mesanna and the team at Broadsword, you probably wouldn't be playing this game in the manner you are now...let alone brokering in it? This isn't an attack by any means, I am simply stating that they put forth a ton of effort to try to keep this game going so that we can still play it in the way we see fit.

For all their faults, I commend this small team for nursing this old girl along...not only are they committed, but they are also long time fans as well.

 

[Smoot]

@Smoot, you realize that if it weren't for Mesanna and the team at Broadsword, you probably wouldn't be playing this game in the manner you are now...let alone brokering in it? This isn't an attack by any means, I am simply stating that they put forth a ton of effort to try to keep this game going so that we can still play it in the way we see fit.

For all their faults, I commend this small team for nursing this old girl along...not only are they committed, but they are also long time fans as well.

personally id rather have no game than a toiletbowl. I do not accept the cop-out comparing UO to some dying grandmother and that we should be happy its here at all. If you have a job, you should strive to do it well. thats just not something that we've seen and Mesanna's fears and lack of motivation is extremely evident. reasoning being that UO could be a really great game with the addition of extremely small, and easy things. but none of that happned. lack of effort, lack of dedication, and lack of fore-sight is what has killed it.

what is comes down to is we get neon dyes, new content that people yes people enjoy for 1 week, while ignoring the basic standards to achieve a quality game.

 

[Herp!]

the most popular, and most advertised multiboxing software is paid subscription. coincidence that League isnt on their list of supported games?

There is nothing in the terms of service stating that multibox software is illegal. I don't use multiboxing software anymore but I did in WoW and Diablo 3 for competitive reasons and I ended up having a ridiculous amount of bans lifted off myself multiple times. There was nothing in the ToS there, nothing in the ToS here. 3rd party software used to macro or script is illegal, however, multiboxing does neither of those things. It simply allows 1 player to control any amount of characters his computer can handle and hit hot keys in all windows at once. Nothing about that sounds illegal at all, the person is still pressing all the buttons.
Yes, I understand some people script while doing this, but that doesn't even require multiboxing software or anything more than a scripting program and a crapload of instances open... so you can't really blame multiboxing software at all.

 

[Smoot]

Found this story while browsing the internet.

coincidence that this article was posted in the most popular UO forum for official servers 19 hours before this thread? (seriously are we even allowed to mention this forum by name. absurd)

ill be continuing the discussion there for anyone interested.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

personally id rather have no game than a toiletbowl. I do not accept the cop-out comparing UO to some dying grandmother and that we should be happy its here at all. If you have a job, you should strive to do it well. thats just not something that we've seen and Mesanna's fears and lack of motivation is extremely evident. reasoning being that UO could be a really great game with the addition of extremely small, and easy things. but none of that happned. lack of effort, lack of dedication, and lack of fore-sight is what has killed it.

what is comes down to is we get neon dyes, new content that people yes people enjoy for 1 week, while ignoring the basic standards to achieve a quality game.

Do you have any idea what it took in order to set up Broadsword to begin with? Do you have inner knowledge of the logistics required to get EA off their laurels to allow the game further development under a NEW studio? If you were as familiar to EA policy as you lead on, you would be aware that EA is a giant clusterfudge in their own right...and that it was a colossal undertaking to make things work out like they did.

I don't know why you complain tbh, I see you selling stuff all the time, which is healthy for the game. Just consider what you would have right now had it not been for the hard work of a *small team* open to letting YOU play the way YOU want to play. Not many games out there are open to us in the manner this one is...perfect or not...

Cheers.

 

[Dot_Warner]

There is nothing in the terms of service stating that multibox software is illegal. I don't use multiboxing software anymore but I did in WoW and Diablo 3 for competitive reasons and I ended up having a ridiculous amount of bans lifted off myself multiple times. There was nothing in the ToS there, nothing in the ToS here. 3rd party software used to macro or script is illegal, however, multiboxing does neither of those things. It simply allows 1 player to control any amount of characters his computer can handle and hit hot keys in all windows at once. Nothing about that sounds illegal at all, the person is still pressing all the buttons.
Yes, I understand some people script while doing this, but that doesn't even require multiboxing software or anything more than a scripting program and a crapload of instances open... so you can't really blame multiboxing software at all.

Not entirely true, item (d) of the Terms of Service could be broadly interpreted to disallow multiboxing software:

(d) Official Service. Ultima Online has been designed by Electronic Arts for play only on the Service. The Software is licensed to you for play on the Service only. Electronic Arts does not grant you a license to use the Software for any other purpose. You agree to play Ultima Online only on the Service and not through any other means. You further agree not to create or provide any other means through which Ultima Online may be played by others – for example, through server emulators. You may not reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the Software, including any proprietary communications protocol used by the Software. You acknowledge that you do not have the right to create, publish, distribute, create derivative works from or use any software programs, utilities, applications, emulators or tools derived from or created for Ultima Online unless specifically authorized in writing by Electronic Arts.

The Rules of Conduct contains similar text, Item 23:

23. You will not create, use, play on or provide any server emulator or other service where Ultima Online may be played. You will not post, use or distribute any utilities, applications, emulators or other software tools related to Ultima Online that do not have the express written permission of Broadsword Online Games to be used with the Service. Information about approved software can be found here.

Since multiboxing programs directly interact with the clients they are "related," thus their use with UO is against the ToS/RoC. The likelihood that most multiboxers script is a virtual given, especially where healing is concerned.

 

[The Craftsman]

I am simply stating that they put forth a ton of effort to try to keep this game going so that we can still play it in the way we see fit.

No. They put minimal effort into keeping the game going so they can make a profit. It isnt done for our benefit.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

No. They put minimal effort into keeping the game going so they can make a profit. It isnt done for our benefit.

I think we will agree to disagree. When you get your own studio with only 4 other people to help you out, you can come tell me the amount of work and effort needed in order to keep it running smoothly.

 

[superfrog]

I believe the word we are searching for here is won't, not can't. because anyone can do something about cheating. the question is will they . . .

 

[Finley Grant]

I would Not See this topic only in black and White.

Iam sure in the Background a Lot of stuff hast to be taken into consideration.

First of all cheating ist a Matter of Definition.

Second yes the ToS/RoC contains a Part which is about 3rd Party Programms. But in the end its Up to the Producer to decide How excactly stuff is done which includes How this is enforced or Not.
Maybe the Producer is Not agian Using 3rd Party as Long as it is not AFK but cannot put that into the ToS due some legal related stuff like would make them able to get fined for allow usage of other peoples Tool who then might get a Chance to request Money. Iam Not a legal guy so I cannot See the full picture but In a country where everyone can sue everyone for the weiredest Kind of crap for millions I would Not be surprised..

3rd they would need to invest Money/ressources to make something in Place to Catch those "cheaters" in flagranti with Being 100℅ sure before be able to ban someone as noch Body wants to ban the wrong Person. For the greater Goal in the end to loose revenue from those Accounts and maybe more the banned Person would Close. From Business Point Not very logical Step to do.

4th they need paid Accounts to keep the lights on. Not sure How much im Detail but lets make a simple calc.
They are 5 ppl who need to get paid and pay Servers at AWS plus EA want also Cash.

As WE dont know How much personal cost they have and How much Servers Cost and How much EA wants and taxes we can Not make this very accurate. But: iam pretty sure that this is north of 25k per month...

10buck per month per Account.
Would mean alone 2500 paid Accounts for this 25k and when I See that you get discounts also around 20-30℅ when you buy 6month Codes you need Most likely a lot more than 2500 active Accounts for 25k income. Not sure if there are taxes in top which would mean it needs even more.

Not sure How bis gonna Work out if you now need to invest Money to Deal with those cheaters when These farmers May Close 10 or 20 or more accounts.

Maybe this is Not so easy as many of think.

 

[OREOGL]

Oh good, woke up, had a cup of coffee, reading another Stratics cheating thread.

Guess my days complete and it's not even 7am yet.

Now what to do with the rest of my day...?

 

[Spiritless]

That cringe moment when someone compares UO to one of the world's biggest e-sport games, which the company and developers actually care about maintaining and are heavily invested in it.

 

[Cyrah]

I am afraid they do not care anymore.Is a sad time in UO Captain. Go look in the center of the Origin bank and see what a player named themselves. This seems to be ok with Gms.

Maybe they do care or it is Origin maintenence time. Origin is gone.

Joy of all joys... it is shard down time. So when I log back in UO's biggest fan with his glorious name will still be sitting in the center of the Origin bank. As he has been for 2 days. It just makes me sad to see what this game has become.

 

[Uvtha]

Found this story while browsing the internet. Completely disproves the claims that gaming companies can't do anything about cheating/scripting. It would be nice if UO did things like this to fight the illegal third party programs.

League of Legends cheating service owes Riot Games $10 million

TLDR: A company that made scripts and cheats in the game League of Legends now owes the game $10,000,000 and all their websites are shut down.

It's not that they CAN'T... it's just not always or even usually worth the effort. In the case of UO, I have a feeling they are loath to shut down any paying account for any reason.

 

[ShriNayne]

There is a gold seller that stands in New Haven on Europa, it appears at regular intervals and shouts about a gold and item selling site, then vanishes until it's next spamming session, it always has the same name. I am pretty sure it has been there for years.

 

[MalagAste]

There is a gold seller that stands in New Haven on Europa, it appears at regular intervals and shouts about a gold and item selling site, then vanishes until it's next spamming session, it always has the same name. I am pretty sure it has been there for years.

I spoke with Mesanna about this once... they spent weeks banning them..... they would be back in 15 min with a new account... no matter how many times they were deleted and banned they would be back again and again... was a never ending cycle...

 

[Lord Frodo]

BS chooses NOT TO ENFORCE the ToS. Mesanna has already demonstrated that she knows damn well what programs you are running while playing UO and if she wanted to she could close down your accounts. How hard is it to understand that BS/UO will not close accounts because they fear that closing down to many accounts will result in EA making a money decision whether to pay BS to support or pull the plug. Bottom line it is all about the money with EA and if stopping cheating in a game is cost effective and make them more money then they will stop it and if it is not then they will allow it. Seriously is it that so hard to understand. And if you do not think EA knows what BS is doing than you truly are delusional.

 

[Captn Norrington]

coincidence that this article was posted in the most popular UO forum for official servers 19 hours before this thread? (seriously are we even allowed to mention this forum by name. absurd)

ill be continuing the discussion there for anyone interested.

That is a coincidence actually, I didn't know it was posted on that site. I found it while scrolling through Yahoo.com news stories which I do daily.

 

[Landicine]

As has been pointed out, we currently have one engineer and one dev working on this game. Let's try a thought experiment:

If this small team puts all their efforts (100%) to creating systems to stop cheaters, scripters, and multi-boxers, could the opposition trivially put more effort into breaking these new systems? I don't know, but this would mean that all other systems suffered.

If this small team put in a reasonable amount of effort (10%) to creating systems to stop cheaters, scripters, and multi-boxers, could the opposition trivially put more effort into breaking these new systems? Probably not, given that larger UO dev teams have struggled with this in the past. Also with fewer resource hours, the biggest problems get the most focus (duping for example) over small, harder-to-track issues.

If this small team put no amount of effort (0%) to creating systems to stop cheaters, scripters, and multi-boxers, the opposition gets free reign to exploit any known weaknesses and search for more. This is the wild west, and not really healthy for those who don't cheat.

What is the right amount of focus? There is no easy answer. With such small resources, UO is going to struggle, no matter how they use those resources. That isn't to say we don't all have opinions on priorities...

 

[Lord Frodo]

As has been pointed out, we currently have one engineer and one dev working on this game. Let's try a thought experiment:

If this small team puts all their efforts (100%) to creating systems to stop cheaters, scripters, and multi-boxers, could the opposition trivially put more effort into breaking these new systems? I don't know, but this would mean that all other systems suffered.

If this small team put in a reasonable amount of effort (10%) to creating systems to stop cheaters, scripters, and multi-boxers, could the opposition trivially put more effort into breaking these new systems? Probably not, given that larger UO dev teams have struggled with this in the past. Also with fewer resource hours, the biggest problems get the most focus (duping for example) over small, harder-to-track issues.

If this small team put no amount of effort (0%) to creating systems to stop cheaters, scripters, and multi-boxers, the opposition gets free reign to exploit any known weaknesses and search for more. This is the wild west, and not really healthy for those who don't cheat.

What is the right amount of focus? There is no easy answer. With such small resources, UO is going to struggle, no matter how they use those resources. That isn't to say we don't all have opinions on priorities...

The system is already there, Mesanna has already demonstrated that she knows exactly what you are running while you play UO. BS/UO chooses not to enforce the ToS. It is all about ensuring EA get its money so EA will continue to pay BS to run DAoC and UO.

 

[Merus]

Merus's proposed scripting/multiboxing solution given the premise that we have reached the point where permanently banning accounts likely does as much harm as good:

Unattended macroing (in house): no action... leave the skill trainers alone.
Unattended macroing (in public): progressive temp bans from 12 hours up to 72 hours per occurrence.
Multiboxing: progressive block on receiving ANY pack drop (from regular content or EM events) from 7 days to 30 days per occurrence.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Merus's proposed scripting/multiboxing solution given the premise that we have reached the point where permanently banning accounts likely does as much harm as good:

Unattended macroing (in house): no action... leave the skill trainers alone.
Unattended macroing (in public): progressive temp bans from 12 hours up to 72 hours per occurrence.
Multiboxing: progressive block on receiving ANY pack drop (from regular content or EM events) from 7 days to 30 days per occurrence.

I may hate the idea but I also know that UO is at a point that we need to rethink our views or run the risk of UO closing sooner than later.
#1 and #2 as long as they are skills and maybe some resources then no ban.
SADLY #3 would do the same thing as banning the account because that is its primary mission is to gather big ticket items and without that then there is no reason for the account.
I know I said it and it still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

 

[elster]

homeboy finds one article for one game in the history of gaming and thinks cheating should be non existent.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

Here is a question.

In the "greater scheme of things", which would you rather see happen? Developers giving the APPEARANCE that they continue to p#@@ on the concept of integrity by allowing cheaters, multiboxers, and gold sellers (perhaps one and the same?) to run rampant, while alienating "honest" players. In hopes that the cheaters will stay and continue to "pay" for UO (because when the honest players get fed up they are GONE). OR, have the courage to do the "right" thing by banning them and taking the CHANCE that UO may no longer be cost effective. BUT, at least knowing that if UO were over (which I hope NEVER happens) they got to leave with some dignity intact.

 

[Captn Norrington]

homeboy finds one article for one game in the history of gaming and thinks cheating should be non existent.

Ok, here is a second article from a different game where World of Warcraft banned over 100,000 players for using scripts and other cheats.

'World of Warcraft' Bans 'A Large Number' of Players

Now here is a third article from yet another game.

EVE Online nukes over a thousand botters from orbit

I can find more examples if you want. There are tons of them out there, I just used the original post as the main example because it was the newest one.

 

[The Craftsman]

I think we will agree to disagree. When you get your own studio with only 4 other people to help you out, you can come tell me the amount of work and effort needed in order to keep it running smoothly.

Youre completely missing the point. Neither EA nor BS are doing anything for our benefit. They are both in it for one reason only and that is to turn a profit. Im not denying it is probably hard work, (for BS anyway ... EA have just contracted it out and thats who I meant gave minimal effort) but its hardly a game that is being grown or developed, and what they do manage to achieve is done to retain subs, including the condoning of cheating. The money means more to either EA or BS than the principle does. BS do the work they do to keep themselves in a job, not for us.

 

[PaulCH]

Here is a question.

In the "greater scheme of things", which would you rather see happen? Developers giving the APPEARANCE that they continue to p#@@ on the concept of integrity by allowing cheaters, multiboxers, and gold sellers (perhaps one and the same?) to run rampant, while alienating "honest" players. In hopes that the cheaters will stay and continue to "pay" for UO (because when the honest players get fed up they are GONE). OR, have the courage to do the "right" thing by banning them and taking the CHANCE that UO may no longer be cost effective. BUT, at least knowing that if UO were over (which I hope NEVER happens) they got to leave with some dignity intact.

"Black" = cheaters / Multiboxers
"White" = Honest players

You forgot one very important group...the grey. I was going to breakdown a few groups in the grey but I think the key group are the ones are happy with anything that makes the game easier for them or maybe saves them time or money (whether gold or RL). For example, I can only play an hour a week. How can I compete with the person who plays 20 hours/week? By buying anything, from fully made chars to gold to suits, off a 3rd party website for money. Or; I want to spend that hour per week crafting so I need ingots. I don't have time to do it myself and I'm on a quiet shard so there aren't enough available. That's where the scripters who may supply ingots on that quiet shard or purchases through 3rd party websites come in.

This "grey" group wants the availabilty of scripted arties from doom or scripted gold or scripted ingots.

Would you alienate any of this grey group if things became too difficult or if they could no longer compete because they couldn't buy gold, etc?

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

"Black" = cheaters / Multiboxers
"White" = Honest players

You forgot one very important group...the grey. I was going to breakdown a few groups in the grey but I think the key group are the ones are happy with anything that makes the game easier for them or maybe saves them time or money (whether gold or RL). For example, I can only play an hour a week. How can I compete with the person who plays 20 hours/week? By buying anything, from fully made chars to gold to suits, off a 3rd party website for money. Or; I want to spend that hour per week crafting so I need ingots. I don't have time to do it myself and I'm on a quiet shard so there aren't enough available. That's where the scripters who may supply ingots on that quiet shard or purchases through 3rd party websites come in.

This "grey" group wants the availabilty of scripted arties from doom or scripted gold or scripted ingots.

Would you alienate any of this grey group if things became too difficult or if they could no longer compete because they couldn't buy gold, etc?

Thanks for the reply. However, buying gold from players, 3rd party sites, etc..., IS still a violation of the UO ToS as far as I know. I am not naïve and I know it happens A LOT. But that doesn't make it right. Just my opinion of course.

 

[PaulCH]

However, buying gold from players, 3rd party sites, etc..., IS still a violation of the UO ToS as far as I know.

Have we talked about anything that isn't against the ToS? I completely agree with you. I really believe that half the fun is getting there. I just recently started on Siege and, while I'm relying on the community, I'm doing it without direct help (anything ranging from xshard transfers to donations from other players). What I get from the community, I will do my best to give back. I'm in no particular rush and just enjoying starting from scratch. Thing is that I understand that not everyone is like me. Many are only interested in the "end game" and will do whatever it takes to get there.

I'm more or less just saying that this grey groups is both complicit with the cheaters and will be affected by bans of the cheaters. Will we lose the "grey" group if the cheaters are banned? I think that is an overlooked issue that EA / Broadsword would face if they decided to start cracking down.

 

[Great DC]

I say if someone is caught doing anything illegal, including script mining or lumberjacking. They should just go and wipe their entire account clean of gold as a fine. Second offense wipe the gold again and make all their items useless. Third permaban.

Then after a period of time they could take the collected fine gold and hand it out equally to all the good players accounts. HeHe

 

[Archnight]

"Black" = cheaters / Multiboxers
"White" = Honest players

Now that just sounds racist lol

 

[PaulCH]

Now that just sounds racist lol

LOL! Wow, you are so right Even if you're only joking and not necessarily criticizing, maybe I should have written simply that it's not a black and white issue and continue from there.

 

[Longtooths]

There are currently to many players using third party programs. Banning all of them would shut down UO. Period.

 

[King Greg]

As I'm sitting here trying to think of something good to say in this thread, I see an advertisement for an RMT site for WoW pop up on Stratics at the top.

And then I just Roll my Eyes and get back to making suits.

 

[Great DC]

There are currently to many players using third party programs. Banning all of them would shut down UO. Period.

Spoken like a true user of illegal programs. LOL

 

[King Greg]

Spoken like a true user of illegal programs. LOL

Spoken like the majority of the player base.

 

[Captn Norrington]

As I'm sitting here trying to think of something good to say in this thread, I see an advertisement for an RMT site for WoW pop up on Stratics at the top.

And then I just Roll my Eyes and get back to making suits.

Stratics doesn't control which ads show up on the site. The site is just hooked up to a generic advertisement system that randomly selects ads for a large group of websites.

 

[MalagAste]

Merus's proposed scripting/multiboxing solution given the premise that we have reached the point where permanently banning accounts likely does as much harm as good:

Unattended macroing (in house): no action... leave the skill trainers alone.
Unattended macroing (in public): progressive temp bans from 12 hours up to 72 hours per occurrence.
Multiboxing: progressive block on receiving ANY pack drop (from regular content or EM events) from 7 days to 30 days per occurrence.

I'd take that further...

Unattended macroing (in house): Remove 20 points of each skill across the board...
Unattended macroing (in public): progressive temp bans from 12 hours up to 72 hours per occurrence. If they are skill gaining remove 30points of skill from each skill, if they are gathering items in Blackthrons delete all items in their packs beyond runebooks and spellbooks, if they are gathering gold fine them and delete 100m...
Multiboxing: First offense block on receiving ANY pack drop (from regular content or EM events) from 7 days. Second offense 30 day suspension... third offense..... BAN THEM.

And IMO if they are caught cheating in PvP.... using illegal programs and such... I figure do what one DEV talked of... build a cheaters shard FEL Only and move them there permanently... they can cheat at it with the other cheaters. Then as soon as they log in a character it's automatically moved to that shard until they have 7 characters there at that time they must chose to either move the character there and delete one of the others or log back out and log in there... also their house on their account instantly falls.

Take a hard stance. Make it unprofitable and painful if they cheat... and make it more beneficial and rewarding to play the game as intended. Stop slapping them on the wrist and actually do something.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

I'd take that further...

Unattended macroing (in house): Remove 20 points of each skill across the board...
Unattended macroing (in public): progressive temp bans from 12 hours up to 72 hours per occurrence. If they are skill gaining remove 30points of skill from each skill, if they are gathering items in Blackthrons delete all items in their packs beyond runebooks and spellbooks, if they are gathering gold fine them and delete 100m...
Multiboxing: First offense block on receiving ANY pack drop (from regular content or EM events) from 7 days. Second offense 30 day suspension... third offense..... BAN THEM.

And IMO if they are caught cheating in PvP.... using illegal programs and such... I figure do what one DEV talked of... build a cheaters shard FEL Only and move them there permanently... they can cheat at it with the other cheaters. Then as soon as they log in a character it's automatically moved to that shard until they have 7 characters there at that time they must chose to either move the character there and delete one of the others or log back out and log in there... also their house on their account instantly falls.

Take a hard stance. Make it unprofitable and painful if they cheat... and make it more beneficial and rewarding to play the game as intended. Stop slapping them on the wrist and actually do something.

I don't always agree with you, BUT, in this case, I am with you 100%. I like this idea.

 

[King Greg]

Stratics doesn't control which ads show up on the site. The site is just hooked up to a generic advertisement system that randomly selects ads for a large group of websites.

I wasn't busting Stratics balls over it. It's just irony because Blizzard is supposed to be one of the most hardcore companies that goes after rmt/scripters/botters and yet you can always find rmt sites.

 

[PaulCH]

Stop slapping them on the wrist and actually do something

Cheaters are actually being slapped on the wrist? Most of my info would come from Stratics and I can't remember hearing about anyone being banned for months (not including stories from the distant past when it was enforced more).

The question to be answered is from Keith's post above

Here is a question.

In the "greater scheme of things", which would you rather see happen? Developers giving the APPEARANCE that they continue to p#@@ on the concept of integrity by allowing cheaters, multiboxers, and gold sellers (perhaps one and the same?) to run rampant, while alienating "honest" players. In hopes that the cheaters will stay and continue to "pay" for UO (because when the honest players get fed up they are GONE). OR, have the courage to do the "right" thing by banning them and taking the CHANCE that UO may no longer be cost effective. BUT, at least knowing that if UO were over (which I hope NEVER happens) they got to leave with some dignity intact.

Basically, would you ban people even if it caused the game to shut down?

 

[MalagAste]

I wasn't busting Stratics balls over it. It's just irony because Blizzard is supposed to be one of the most hardcore companies that goes after rmt/scripters/botters and yet you can always find rmt sites.

That's because they are like cockroaches... If there is one there are millions...

 

[MalagAste]

Cheaters are actually being slapped on the wrist? Most of my info would come from Stratics and I can't remember hearing about anyone being banned for months (not including stories from the distant past when it was enforced more).

The question to be answered is from Keith's post above


Basically, would you ban people even if it caused the game to shut down?

they send them to jail and sometimes give a temp ban..... boo hoo... give them a real consequence and they might stop it.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Here is a question.

In the "greater scheme of things", which would you rather see happen? Developers giving the APPEARANCE that they continue to p#@@ on the concept of integrity by allowing cheaters, multiboxers, and gold sellers (perhaps one and the same?) to run rampant, while alienating "honest" players. In hopes that the cheaters will stay and continue to "pay" for UO (because when the honest players get fed up they are GONE). OR, have the courage to do the "right" thing by banning them and taking the CHANCE that UO may no longer be cost effective. BUT, at least knowing that if UO were over (which I hope NEVER happens) they got to leave with some dignity intact.

You forgot option #3, admit that they know damn well what is going on and will not enforce the ToS unless EA tells them directly to do so. The barn door has been left open for so long that 10th generation cows are now using it.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

Cheaters are actually being slapped on the wrist? Most of my info would come from Stratics and I can't remember hearing about anyone being banned for months (not including stories from the distant past when it was enforced more).

The question to be answered is from Keith's post above


Basically, would you ban people even if it caused the game to shut down?

Just my opinion, You either have integrity or you don't. You can't just have it "some of the time".

 

[Lord Frodo]

Spoken like a true user of illegal programs. LOL

Or a NON OSTRICH