*Sigh* Regarding Voting on the Contest

[Kayhynn]

I'm a little torn as to what to do on this as viewing logs of voting, I can see IP addresses and the very little changes in them when voting occured which means one of two things were done to...alter...voting.

The sad thing is, all 4 of the folks in the top 4 have voting fraud on it. Strangely, people who told me two certain folks should "win because they have the best" are the same ones with the most voting fraud.

Now, there are several options I can take here, including physically deleting all duplicate voting entries, or forcing people to register for the site to prevent this from happening in the future (and still resulting in having to verify they don't register multiple accounts and banning subsequent duplicate accounts for voting.)

This is the second time I've run a contest and the first time we had an issue with voting it was on a different system and the person told me that their friend found out how to vote multiple times and did it to boost her count. She asked me to delete 20 votes from her because the other person cheated.

And I understand that some of you who entered are "promoting" your pictures and asking people to vote for you. That's fine too. However, keep in mind this isn't a popularity contest. People should be voting for you because your design is GOOD, not because they're your friend. And your friends should not be cheating to get you to win.

Those who are in the top (and you can see who you are by looking at results), would you feel it's fair for me to remove the multiple entries that were done against the spirit of the competition. I clearly stated it would be voting on a trust factor and that you could only vote once...(and when the last two digits of an IP address are the only one that changes every few minutes and there are 5-10 votes from that same address...)

There will, obviously, be changes to the next contest come Christmas, so keep that in mind...but I am very unhappy with people turning this into a cheating to win contest.

 

[DevilsOwn]

sorry to hear that, Kayhynn

and kudos to you for remaining positive (having more contests) in the light of this

 

[Teils]

Feel free, but I do know there are several in the same state voting and in same city so those ips will be similar. If you remove them please make sure they are from same computer. As I said in my post on the other thread, I wasnt aware you could vote more than once. I was never given that option after the first time and I have asked a couple more people were they and they said no as well.

 

[Lady Michelle]

I'm a little torn as to what to do on this as viewing logs of voting, I can see IP addresses and the very little changes in them when voting occured which means one of two things were done to...alter...voting.

The sad thing is, all 4 of the folks in the top 4 have voting fraud on it. Strangely, people who told me two certain folks should "win because they have the best" are the same ones with the most voting fraud.

Now, there are several options I can take here, including physically deleting all duplicate voting entries, or forcing people to register for the site to prevent this from happening in the future (and still resulting in having to verify they don't register multiple accounts and banning subsequent duplicate accounts for voting.)

This is the second time I've run a contest and the first time we had an issue with voting it was on a different system and the person told me that their friend found out how to vote multiple times and did it to boost her count. She asked me to delete 20 votes from her because the other person cheated.

And I understand that some of you who entered are "promoting" your pictures and asking people to vote for you. That's fine too. However, keep in mind this isn't a popularity contest. People should be voting for you because your design is GOOD, not because they're your friend. And your friends should not be cheating to get you to win.

Those who are in the top (and you can see who you are by looking at results), would you feel it's fair for me to remove the multiple entries that were done against the spirit of the competition. I clearly stated it would be voting on a trust factor and that you could only vote once...(and when the last two digits of an IP address are the only one that changes every few minutes and there are 5-10 votes from that same address...)

There will, obviously, be changes to the next contest come Christmas, so keep that in mind...but I am very unhappy with people turning this into a cheating to win contest.

Im not in the top, but if you do not do what is right not many are going to trust you Which will make many players not enter your future contests. So do what you think is right I know if it was my deco I wouldn't want to win by voting fraud.

 

[Sarsmi]

It's a tough decision, I think it's pretty normal though in contests of this nature for people to try to push an advantage. Not saying any of the entrants are doing that, but their friends might be certainly. And then there is the feeling of "well someone else cheated so there needs to be vote cheating to catch up with them", and it kind of snowballs from there.

Probably the easiest thing would be to remove the multiple IP votes this time around. It is hard to get people to vote twice in the same contest. Registering to vote is kind of a pain too, but if you make it as easy as possible it shouldn't be too bad.

There are a few snags, but I hope it doesn't discourage you from running future contests! I think they are fabulous (whether I participate or don't). I just love seeing the deco.

 

[Nastia Cross]

I know you want to promote your site and everything, but perhaps outsource the voting and just post a link. I would say do a poll here, but I don't know if that would be the best solution. Stinks that people feel the need to cheat.

 

[Sarsmi]

Unfortunately right now the polls here only allow for ten options, so she'd have to split the entries up in multiple posts, going that route.

 

[Kayhynn]

I know you want to promote your site and everything, but perhaps outsource the voting and just post a link. I would say do a poll here, but I don't know if that would be the best solution. Stinks that people feel the need to cheat.

I considered that and considered using a seperate program on the site to run the poll, but in researching all ran into similar problems. Once the poll on this one closes, I'll explain what is going on and how many polls use that same option.

 

[Crystal Canyon]

I totally agree that most of the time voting of this nature turns more into a "popularity contest" rather than a true contest of who has the best design.

I much prefer that all entries be looked at by a panel of judges who are not given any information on who the designer was or from what shard they are from. To me this a more fair way of choosing a winner.

My opinion for you now, because you are aware of unfair voting, is to appoint a panel of judges and let them make the decision. There is no way for you to delete certain votes that you know for a fact are repeats and keep other votes that you are not sure of. A panel of judges would be able to choose more wisely at this point.

P.S. Some really great submissions this year. Thank you for taking your time to do this. Its a wonderful idea.

 

[Teeshy]

sorry to hear that, Kayhynn

and kudos to you for remaining positive (having more contests) in the light of this

*echoes this*

 

[Voluptuous]

I think Sarsmi is right, just null the multiple votes or quickly slap together 3 judges. I think Sarsmi would be a great judge, and yourself of course. I can't volunteer myself because I'm biased against one entry so I don't think I'd be a good choice.

 

[Kayhynn]

I much prefer that all entries be looked at by a panel of judges who are not given any information on who the designer was or from what shard they are from. To me this a more fair way of choosing a winner.

My opinion for you now, because you are aware of unfair voting, is to appoint a panel of judges and let them make the decision. There is no way for you to delete certain votes that you know for a fact are repeats and keep other votes that you are not sure of. A panel of judges would be able to choose more wisely at this point.

That is the difficulty of deleting votes. I know some votes can come from two or three computers in a house that could be 2 or 3 legitimate votes.

I'm inclined to let the votes narrow down the top 5 and let a panel of judges decide from there.

I think Sarsmi is right, just null the multiple votes or quickly slap together 3 judges. I think Sarsmi would be a great judge, and yourself of course. I can't volunteer myself because I'm biased against one entry so I don't think I'd be a good choice.

*Nod* Problem with me being the judge is I know who submitted what from where too.

Talk about a headache. Oh well. I'll figure it out.

 

[Nastia Cross]

I volunteer to be a judge as well. I didn't enter and I don't *think* I know any of the entrants. I tend to not look at the names under the pictures to not be biased before I vote.

 

[Sarsmi]

I wouldn't mind being a judge in any contest I don't enter. I have a pretty strong sense of fairness, I think. That could be a way to go in the future, grab a bunch of volunteers as judges and stick up a page of non-identified entrants.

Alternately you could do it both ways, having a popular vote and then judge's choice. Of course it's a lot more work for you having to find judges and coordinate volunteers than setting up a poll for people to vote in (already a bit of work there).

 

[DevilsOwn]

small panel of judges, yes, that might be the way to go, and maybe some people that are not normally carrying five deco tools around with them

after these few years of looking at different house designs and rooms of decor, I'm thinking I could pretty much pick out a place built by Chocolits or Sarsmi or a few others, and many of you could probably do the same

and all of us know people with a good eye and a fair heart that could judge a contest with no bending this way or that because of friendship or shard pride... I'll betcha Kayhynn could round up a handful of folks like that with no trouble at all, just on her shard alone

all else fails, have Kelmo pick 'em

 

[Miss Smoocher]

i would just like to say i dont know who cheated who voted for me and i am sorry for that. i think you should take out the votes that were not true and go from there. i know i didnt need to cheat to win my homes stand on there own and i do think you need to make it so they have to be a member of your web page from here on out. looked for a way to join your page hard enuff for me to spell let alone find things on here. good luck with your choice i am happy just knowing i do a great job.

 

[Lady Michelle]

i would just like to say i dont know who cheated who voted for me and i am sorry for that. i think you should take out the votes that were not true and go from there. i know i didnt need to cheat to win my homes stand on there own and i do think you need to make it so they have to be a member of your web page from here on out. looked for a way to join your page hard enuff for me to spell let alone find things on here. good luck with your choice i am happy just knowing i do a great job.

No need to be sorry for how others might of fraud voted for yours or any ones its not your fault. The only sad thing is now we wont really know who the true winner would be because of this

 

[KoolAidAddict]

No need to be sorry for how others might of fraud voted for yours or any ones its not your fault. The only sad thing is now we wont really know who the true winner would be because of this

Yeah you could.
Order a redo, and monitor the votes IP or require a sign up.

However, IMHO, several could win, so.....declare a tie, give em ALL props, toss the goodies to all of em, and plan better for the next one.

 

[Crystal Canyon]

Even the best laid plans can go astray when people decide there is nothing wrong with "bending the rules".

Kayhynn did a great job of putting this contest together. It wasnt the planning that was at fault but the people who were trusted to only cast the specified number of votes. Sad part is that they knew they were doing wrong when they did it.

I hope that they can see now the turmoil that can be caused by not obeying the rules. The people who submitted their designs spent countless hours decorating their houses and deserved to be treated fairly in the outcome of the contest.

Kayhynn did her best in planning a great activity for players and I hope this whole mess doesnt detour her or any of the people who took the time to submit to this contest, from participating in future such contests.

 

[Salya Sin]

Why not ask one of the mods to allow for a lengthier poll for this? Wasn't there more than ten in the "pet dyes" vote? Maybe one of the mods can answer but I'm pretty sure they can make a longer poll, then just redo the vote on here?

 

[Petra Fyde]

as it happens, I recently extended the number of options to 15, is that enough?

If it helps at all, the way I did the contest we ran for the beta key was: All entries were sent to me. I re-named them with numbers, keeping a record of who's entry corresponded to which number, and uploaded them to a page on Stratics. My admin team were co-erced into being judges.
I was the only person who knew which entry had been submitted by whom and I took no part in the judging, just giving the judges the link to the page of images and leaving them to make a decision. The entries were not shown to the posters until after the judging, so that no one could give away the identities of the entrants and influence the judging.

 

[Skylark SP]

Thanks, Petra!

15 choices would probably cover most situations. It is hard to know with contests, how much participation there will be. However, when there are lots of submissions, in my opinion it would make sense for the person running the contest to break them up into multiple categories to vote on (such as by shard or region when it is all one theme), then have a finalist type of vote, that way the number of choices you have for each poll is not overwhelming. Especially when viewing deco, too many entries to view at one time, and it all starts to become a blur and difficult to compare effectively based on what you have already seen...at least that is how I felt with one of the holiday contests.

One thing is certain: it is a lot of work doing contests, and the efforts of everyone are appreciated.

-Skylark

 

[Cadsuane Sedai]

I would do pre set judges from the deco comunity.

(judges couldn't enter obviously)
have to put that as common sense didn't occur to some...

 

[Kayhynn]

I think i may go with pre-set judges...

See I had thought of doing polls here or on UOForums, but once again, the whole poll thing doesn't prevent people from making multiple accounts and voting, nor does it allow people who don't want to register to vote.

Catch 22s everywhere.

We'll figure it out. I'll PM those who volunteered to judge this weekend and go from there.

 

[KoolAidAddict]

Even the best laid plans can go astray when people decide there is nothing wrong with "bending the rules".

Kayhynn did a great job of putting this contest together. It wasnt the planning that was at fault but the people who were trusted to only cast the specified number of votes.

Im not trying to be harsh, but fact is, the planning didnt include considering the human nature part of the equation, which I do believe she fully understands now!
It was an awesome event to undertake, and much props to her:bowdown:, for sure. :bowdown: !!!

Im just sorry she had to learn some psych 101 lessons the hard way, but again, human nature is a B*&%$ to put to a "trust".

 

[Kayhynn]

Even the best laid plans can go astray when people decide there is nothing wrong with "bending the rules".

Im not trying to be harsh, but fact is, the planning didnt include considering the human nature part of the equation, which I do believe she fully understands now!
It was an awesome event to undertake, and much props to her:bowdown:, for sure. :bowdown: !!!

Im just sorry she had to learn some psych 101 lessons the hard way, but again, human nature is a B*&%$ to put to a "trust".

Let's not assume I didn't expect human nature to take part in the equation. fact of the matter is, it involved dumping ALL of your cookies each time to be able to vote in the poll. The rest of what I want to say will be left out because it would affect voting on other UO related sites.

Human nature would affect just about any way of judging. How can I trust a judge won't accept a bribe if I go with judges? How can I trust said judge won't enter under a different name? How can I assume a person won't enter multiple houses under multiple names hoping to get 1st 2nd and 3rd?

What I was trying to do was come up with a more balanced way with voting. The Christmas contest had a few votes but not a lot that were out of line. This one was a different story. Human nature or not... *Shrugs*

I've had a few volunteers to judge contact me. I'm going to take a survey of those that I know are not associated with the entries submitted and go from there....

Expect results soon.

 

[Miss Smoocher]

if your going with judges i am fine with that if they want to look at my homes they are changed for christmas already.
yes i know alittle early but i cant help it as far as the contest for christmas i wont be entering becuase i know i didnt
cheat and i hate to think someone thinks i did so from now on the houses will be for people to look at from my shard.
i dont need to worrie on stuff like this anymore. i enjoyed it well it lasted thank you for trying to make it fun. .