Rune Incidents

[Lady_Calina]

I wanted to apologize for something that has been going on for some time now without my knowledge.

I have been approached by a player claiming that guild members of mine have been picking up their shop runes. I profusely apologized, and immediately asked my members if it was true, to which some said, "Yes."

I have explained to them that while I understand their logic for doing this, (some say it causes lag, some say its tacky for one or two shops to coat the city in neon runes, etc) I won't condone it.

However, this is all I can do, as I refuse to boot someone who, besides that issue, is a great guildmate. Should any of you have another issue with someone stealing runes, I welcome you to page on them, as it is considered harassment under to TOS and has been enforced through banning once before to my knowledge.

I have informed my members as such, so should they continue to do this they do it at their own risk. I hope those that have been affected accept this apology and see that I have taken reasonable measures to prevent this sort of incident from occurring again.

 

[Bob_the_fart_guy]

Sounds to me like you covered your ground.

It kills me when you are well..."Judged by the company you keep". Quite often you have those friends that feel they have to "vindicate" a situation by taking things into their own hands. What can you do? Ditch your bud and cave? Or accept what you consider to be that one "flaw" in their personality and enjoy the rest of a gaming experience with them. Well, I choose the latter. Yeah, I have some buds that do similar things, no, I ain't gonna' turn my back on them. But there is always things you wish you could change about some of your friends, eh?

In light of your post Calina, it sounds to me like you did the correct thing. If there is even one person that says they would just turn their back on a bud that did something, well, then that person expects perfection, or ones definition of such.

Thank you for bringing this to light Lady Calina.

 

[TimberWolf]

I don't know who is involved ( other than Calina's guild) so no one can claim I am attacking them, however...

It is my understanding that anything placed on the ground is free for any character to pick up and take.

It is also my understanding that to address this they made runes created inside a house NOT reusable. ( years ago, or so it was explained to me on this very forum 7-8 years ago).

But as far as things being picked off the ground being actionable. I highly doubt it another urban legend for the books. Unless it could be established that only runes from a certain vendor are being picked up. But that is a different story. After all it does cause lag, that is why we have decay, and that is why banks all have trash containers.

I think there is a certain justice to having a stealther walk around picking up runes directly behind people dropping them. placing a couple runes on the ground at a gate is one thing...covering the ground is something entirely different!

And for the record, no it is not me....but I might start...lol

 

[Lady_Calina]

I don't know who is involved ( other than Calina's guild) so no one can claim I am attacking them, however...

It is my understanding that anything placed on the ground is free for any character to pick up and take.

It is also my understanding that to address this they made runes created inside a house NOT reusable. ( years ago, or so it was explained to me on this very forum 7-8 years ago).

But as far as things being picked off the ground being actionable. I highly doubt it another urban legend for the books. Unless it could be established that only runes from a certain vendor are being picked up. But that is a different story. After all it does cause lag, that is why we have decay, and that is why banks all have trash containers.

I think there is a certain justice to having a stealther walk around picking up runes directly behind people dropping them. placing a couple runes on the ground at a gate is one thing...covering the ground is something entirely different!

And for the record, no it is not me....but I might start...lol

That's exactly what my guys were thinking, TW.

 

[Beleg Megil]

Thank you, Calina. I certainly don't judge you by the actions of a tiny few of your members. Believe me, I keep making suggestions for a rune book like device that can hold vendor runes at the various banks and empties iteself at the end of the day. Until they come up with something better though, dropping runes is the only way to get people to come to your shop.


As far as lag goes....nah, it creates pretty much no lag. I am on 28.8 kbps dialup so believe me, I notice lag.

As far as Timberwolf thinking any form of griefing or harassment is justice? Well, I could follow you around all day and spoil everything you do if you want.

 

[DPudding]

I'm thinking I have too much stuff in my house and I need to sell it. Hence the runes....hence the disappearance....hence the stuff still on my vendors.

This is the rub. I see three runes, that I placed OUTSIDE the bank, disappear within three seconds. Makes me think some rival vendor is picking them up. Makes me mad.

So...out of twenty runes that I drop all over the shard....all the ones I drop in the most busy sector of the game are being sold or thrown away?

Plus...other folks are seeing the things being picked up and now they think it's okay to just grab them all and keep someone from vending.

Yeah....it irritates me.

 

[TimberWolf]

Thank you, Calina. I certainly don't judge you by the actions of a tiny few of your members. Believe me, I keep making suggestions for a rune book like device that can hold vendor runes at the various banks and empties itself at the end of the day. Until they come up with something better though, dropping runes is the only way to get people to come to your shop.


As far as lag goes....nah, it creates pretty much no lag. I am on 28.8 kbps dialup so believe me, I notice lag.

As far as Timberwolf thinking any form of griefing or harassment is justice? Well, I could follow you around all day and spoil everything you do if you want.

Easy Beleg,
No one is griefing anyone, we are talking about picking something up that was tossed on the ground. Just because it is the easiest way for you to get vendors out of luna doesn't mean it is griefing to pick up runes in luna.

Heck I know a vendor that picks up these runes, fills ruin books with them and sells them as full vendor books.

Just because someone does something you don't like doesn't make them a griefer. How many people hunt miners because they think they are all scripters...is that griefing? How many people lure monsters over to people they think are unattended, or just lure monsters as they run for their lives.

Technically all of that is griefing, but it is also acceptable within reason.

Heck the tamers forum on Stratics had a sticky on how to deal with people they thought were unattended tamers. Suggestions included luring, and opening gates etc

Ya there is plenty of griefing in this game, but picking up rune stones in luna is hardly part of it!

As I said most people don't mind seeing a few runes on the ground around a gate.....but when people spread them all over the ground they do create lag and that does effect other peoples enjoyment.

So Beleg you can say picking up rune stones is griefing, I can say putting all over the ground is greifing too!


And Delbert...I gotta call pot on you for this one my friend!

Am I mistaken or didn't you just post the other day about stealthing around Inns picking up bags people leave for alts?? LOL but picking up runes is wrong??




Once something is on the ground it is free game to anyone...period.

If you want traffic at your house asks some luna vendor to put books on their steps with other vendor shops in them. I know we use to have that at one point in the Luna vendor house Anne and I owned. I know we weren't that unique..TLT had it as well!

I am sure Calina will do it

 

[Lady_Calina]

Yup, I sure will I plan to have some runebooks at the MZS Hall with both well-known and little-known shops. My only requirement, which is the same with my free vendors, is that those shops be well stocked and well kept.

If a person, or a group, comes out in support of you, I'm a firm believer that it's your responsibility as the shopkeeper to ensure an eye-pleasing, easy shopping experience to those who are referred to you

 

[Black Sun]

It is also my understanding that to address this they made runes created inside a house NOT reusable. ( years ago, or so it was explained to me on this very forum 7-8 years ago).

I don't ever remember that being the case. I'm pretty sure you've always been able to remark them. Either way, it's not the case now. When I am in a rush and need a rune I will often grab the nearest one off the ground and reuse it.

 

[TimberWolf]

Black then they are marking them wrong...if you stand inside a house and mark a rune I am 99.9999999% sure it is NOT reusable. It can be remarked by original owner, but not by anyone else...and it is also auto labelled.

But what do I know...maybe they changed things again.

 

[Black Sun]

They must have changed it then. I just grabbed a rune in luna with the [Malas][House] tags on it, and marked over top of it.

 

[AnneNomilly]

Runes marked inside a house can be reMARKED. They cannot be reNAMED without remarking them.

 

[Lady_Calina]

Yeah, it's automatically named whatever is on the house sign that it's marked in. It cannot be renamed while it's marked to that location, but it can be marked over and reused.

 

[TimberWolf]

Well there you go leave it to the ladies to figure it out

 

[Vallend]

Really I don't mind a few runes around a bank area. Problem is when people cover the entire area with their runes. It becomes a pain when the same vendor has 20 or more runes in the same area at the Luna bank.
I do pick up runes at times to check out vendors most of them aren't worth going back to so I mark over that rune. If its a great vendor then I will stick their rune in a book at my house.
I do know one vendor has been dropping runes all over the inside new EM Hall, and at the doors in it. For some reason that does bother me and I think its sort of rude to drop runes there, but banks and moongates are ok with me as long as the vendor does not place to many.

 

[Beleg Megil]

Timberwolf:

Picking up runes a shop keeper leaves out in order to get business when it is of no gain to you, other than knowing you are depriving a shop keeper of business... that's griefing and harassment no matter how you wish to split hairs or justify it.

What's happened to you? Seems you have changed very much.

 

[Beleg Megil]

The guy that was leaving them at Kasaven's was regretfully one of our vendors. I hated that too, told him to stop but he pulled his vendor. Anymore that are left in RP areas won't be from our vendors.

 

[TimberWolf]

Timberwolf:

Picking up runes a shop keeper leaves out in order to get business when it is of no gain to you, other than knowing you are depriving a shop keeper of business... that's griefing and harassment no matter how you wish to split hairs or justify it.

What's happened to you? Seems you have changed very much.

What has happened?? I guess what has happened is I finally realized that allot of people in this community expect people to agree and support them....and failing that at least keep their mouth shut!

We are no longer allowed to have our own individual thoughts and feelings. We have to "play nice." Don't offend this person or that person....

Well I am tired of kissing butt and playing nice. I call a spade, a spade and a shoe, a shoe!

If I disagree with you I am going to say so. If I think you are a lying, backstabbing, cheat I will say so. If that gets me banned, so be it! I accept full responsibility for my actions and I make no apologies for having my own thoughts and feelings on subjects!

If I think you are wrong...I will say so...No matter who you are!

You don't have to like it, but you do have to accept it because it isn't going to change.

I will still give the shirt off my back to a stranger, or cut my leg arm off to help a friend, that is who I am. But if people expect me to bite my tongue when I disagree with them, then they have the wrong TimberWolf!

 

[Beleg Megil]

Its not the disagreeing with I was refering to in anyway, but whatever. Enjoy yourself

 

[DPudding]

Well....the first years I played this game I went about it as a single player. Never did anything "community" related. Just played my game. Never made friends....never made enemies. I just played. I didn't get bored....cause it's tough doing everything alone. I never got upset....cause if I failed at something....It was because I messed up.

When I started doing community things....I suddenly had to consider "sharing" with others. I had to consider the shard politics of whom I was befriending. I had to rely on the planning of others to keep me alive. And the trade-off? More parties at Mel...and more causal conversations in-game.

Sometimes I wonder....if the only attachment I feel to this game comes from the memories of a decade ago? That everything since has slowly diminished that equity I felt. And that the equity is gone. I saw excitement in someone...and let them convince me it was all good. But...it's not...it's the same.

I'm sitting here mad. Mad about an ant I can flick off my shoulder.

 

[Lady_Calina]

Don't let such a small incident deter you from the game as a whole. There are still good and decent people within this community and they would feel a small void missing if you left, especially if it was over something as insignificant as runes in the bank.

I know, to you, it's not a small matter and its very frustrating, but it the scheme of things, it really is.

In fact, if it were to make you feel any better about the situation, I'll start marking runes to all the vendor homes that advertise in Luna and I'll place them in books on the steps the MZS Hall. Then, I could drop maybe 10 runes in Luna to that house and label them "The Catskills Shoppe Compendium".

Then, there are only 10 runes in Luna, and everyone gets their shops advertised.... and hey, it promotes the Zoo Vendors! That's 3 birds with 1 stone!

 

[DPudding]

Calina...it's a small problem. That's why the problem is me. It's very telling that I can handle more stress...and more problems in real life....than I can in a game. I want the game to be something it's not. I was gone for nine months. Never missed it. My bro moves in with me and I decide to try it again. It's not fun. I quit. I come back because he tells me all the fun he's having. And now I'm frustrated again. I'm frustrated at something that I don't have to be involved with! That's the funny part! The weather is getting better. I'll be playing golf most weekends. I bought a boat three years ago and I've had it in the water five times. I'll be 40 in August. The game is better off without my drama.

 

[Hunters' Moon]

Hmmm...I,for one,see no problem what-so-ever about taking any rune you see on the ground. IMO if its on the ground,it's fair game and should be free for anyone to take,no matter the reason. Many times when I needed a rune to mark a location for a new player or someone needing a mage's help,I would not hesitate to take any rune I find on the ground and mark over it,but thats just me...

 

[Vallend]

Dropping runes is the only way for many vendors outside of Luna to have a an chance at competing with the mega mall mentality of Luna. Yes everyone knows that Luna vendors mark their prices up just because their location is so convenient for shopping. Most people hate going out of their way looking for goods and will pay the marked up prices just to save time. Now me I try and do most of my shopping outside of Luna, just so I can support the little guys. Problem is most of these Vendors do not stay open long, or let their vendors quickly sell out of goods and leave empty vendors standing around.

Like in the real world location rules, and if you lack location then you have to advertise heavy to make up for it. Runes are these bad location vendors only chance of staying open and by picking up their runes you are depriving them of customers. Still like the real world I will not give my business to the vendor owner who drops way to many runes. Just like I hate stores who stick fliers under your windshield wiper when you are in a mall. Both are just too pushy in my eyes.

 

[Corvak]

I often make a point of hitting these runes to check out what might be for sale elsewhere.

But on the flipside, if I need to do some rune marking, I'm guilty of picking up a couple shop runes too.

 

[Black Sun]

Pick up a rune or 2 every now and then it one thing. But to purposely pick up and either trash or sell all runes at the bank just so they're not there anymore. That's totally different, and just plain rude.

 

[Corvak]

Yeah...its less about removing the runes, and more about being too lazy to buy blank ones from a Mage here.

 

[Scarst]

I'll admit I do this but I don't stealth on any of my characters while doing it. I do have a stealther but as for picking up runes while stealthing no I don't do that but I encourage anyone to start. The runes cause lag sure but they cause another thing disappointment. Recently there has been a shop that opened near the charmed butterfly that has been dropping runes. At first I thought well cool another shop I'll check it out maybe get a new weapon. I found nothing that interested me which is fine not every shop has to carry what I want but for the rest of the week and probably even still they dropped runes with different names every day and like a sucker I hit them and think new shop, after the fourth time I'm thinking what the hell. I have since stopped hitting any tokuno shop rune that shop has single handedly ruined tokuno shopping for me.

As for picking up and reusing runes I have no problem with it they put out like 25 runes in luna expecting people to leave them there because people want to see them succeed and get gold and everyone is nice and wants you to be happy (sarcasm overload).

And you can always mark over a rune no matter what it's you can't rename house marked ones.

My favorite thing I've heard about luna was when someone I met called it "The Free Rune Depository", I wont say who but it gave me a great laugh.

 

[Beleg Megil]

I'll admit I do this but I don't stealth on any of my characters while doing it. I do have a stealther but as for picking up runes while stealthing no I don't do that but I encourage anyone to start. The runes cause lag sure but they cause another thing disappointment. Recently there has been a shop that opened near the charmed butterfly that has been dropping runes. At first I thought well cool another shop I'll check it out maybe get a new weapon. I found nothing that interested me which is fine not every shop has to carry what I want but for the rest of the week and probably even still they dropped runes with different names every day and like a sucker I hit them and think new shop, after the fourth time I'm thinking what the hell. I have since stopped hitting any tokuno shop rune that shop has single handedly ruined tokuno shopping for me.

As for picking up and reusing runes I have no problem with it they put out like 25 runes in luna expecting people to leave them there because people want to see them succeed and get gold and everyone is nice and wants you to be happy (sarcasm overload).

And you can always mark over a rune no matter what it's you can't rename house marked ones.

My favorite thing I've heard about luna was when someone I met called it "The Free Rune Depository", I wont say who but it gave me a great laugh.

That's weird... Aren't you the Scarst from PGoH? One of the PGoH shops are in Tokuno I thought...

Anyway, that shop is mine. The items we sell change fast, sometimes 3 times a day. Most are rares and deco and replicas and other very specific high end items. Seems only logical that we change the sign and runes daily to reflect inventory. Rainbow shop (south of the PGoH shop) and the other big one that isn't Charmed One's (farther south of the PGoH shop) also mark their runes to reflect inventory. I'm sorrry you don't like it though.

 

[Giggles]

I'm guilty of just recalling in luna and grabbing two or three runes... not to grief anyone.. but because I need them to mark something and its easier then buying from the mage and helps a small bit with the lag they cause.

 

[Scarst]

That's weird... Aren't you the Scarst from PGoH? One of the PGoH shops are in Tokuno I thought...

Anyway, that shop is mine. The items we sell change fast, sometimes 3 times a day. Most are rares and deco and replicas and other very specific high end items. Seems only logical that we change the sign and runes daily to reflect inventory. Rainbow shop (south of the PGoH shop) and the other big one that isn't Charmed One's (farther south of the PGoH shop) also mark their runes to reflect inventory. I'm sorrry you don't like it though.

I am but still the other one doesn't drop millions and I'm not say don't shop there I'm saying it's the only one that's really advertised from tokuno and I can get around zento no problem with the moongate. If you ask anyone that has ever fought me you will probably hear the same thing, it's a running battle haha.
and that is reflected in how I usually get around runes are only for quick travel when someone needs you.

 

[Lady_Calina]

I must admit, Gil's vendor house is very well-priced and well-stocked. I just went there for the first time because I wanted to find some small rubble for my garden, and it's very nice. I'd promote it by having an elite tailor engrave their chest pieces with the name or coords of your shop

"Elves Do It Better: At "Shop Name or Coords" "

It's lame, I know...

 

[Beleg Megil]

Elves do believe they do most things better, but we draw the line at walking bilboards..... Unless we can rent some humans for the job!

 

[Lady_Calina]

I have 4 Elves... but I have alot of scantily-clad female humans who could scrawl your shop name across their chest...piece.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

I don't know who it was that complained.

To my understanding, anything lying on the ground is free to pick up and take along. When I need a rune or two, I just go to Luna.

However, if someone picks up all the runes to remark them to advertise his own vendor instead (I have seen that), it is impolite and a little rude.

 

[Shioni]

However, this is all I can do, as I refuse to boot someone who, besides that issue, is a great guildmate. Should any of you have another issue with someone stealing runes, I welcome you to page on them, as it is considered harassment under to TOS and has been enforced through banning once before to my knowledge.

This inst technically harassment Ive paged a GM many times and every time they explain that after you drop an item it is no longer considered your property and others may do as they wish with it.

But it is very poor Netiquette, I would suggest forming a marketing comity and hosting a Catskills Bizarre so that vendors can get their names/runes out much like Pike does with the RP Black market... You could even do this in Brit, sell rune books loaded with the best rated shops and have a contest for the highest voted shop to win a cash prize...

Just some ideas no point in greifing each other



Also Possession is 9/10th of law

 

[TimberWolf]

Deleted....