RESET SIM EXPECTIONS WEEK !

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Anyone that has spent the time to earn enough money, build a house and furnish it with everything that I need to use and manage roomies willing to help keep house open has already paid their dues as far as I'm conerned.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, that means they are deserving of tips that eventually will reimburse them for the cost of building the house, at best.....but anybody can build a house and open it, that does not a good host make (now I sound like Yoda LOL)

<blockquote><hr>

If they are cordial enough to cook while I'm there and let me use their beds, toilets and showers instead of having to go home that is a good host.

[/ QUOTE ]

'Cordial enough'? Are you serious? Yeah, some expectations need to be reset alright, but not the ones originally mentioned in the thread

<blockquote><hr>

If they call the repairman regulary to keep the place operational for my use, that is a good host. If they keep their houses open so many hours a day that I can almost always catch them online, that is a good host.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that would fall into the 'good' category for me too, since I've seen so many neglect to keep up with maintenance, to the point that guests have to run around fixing stuff just to pull room score up from the basement so they CAN skill, but still would not be considered 'great' or 'exceptional', which is what hosts should strive for, to make the experience for their guests rise above everybody else's. Kinda like the difference between a 5 star hotel and a 3 star.

<blockquote><hr>

I would much rather owners and roomies help with skill speed and money payouts on objects by using them rather than running around taking care of everyone's needs because this is something that I have no control over. To me a good host keeps those payouts high by working and keeps skill speeds constant by studying.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the skill speeds or highest payouts are in jeopardy, I agree 100%. Once the house gets full enough though that this is not an issue, a host does not need to skill or make money alongside the guests anymore to keep those payouts up. It only takes 6 people studying the same skill, or 12 using the same money object, to max payment. Beyond that, the host would only be doing it for his or her own benefit, not the benefit of the guests.

This all boils down to the difference between goodness and excellence. Some people are happy with average and mediocrity, some are not. I'm starting to realize though that nobody is going to alter their opinions one iota to try to see it a different way though.

 

[Guest]

Now that EA Land has been open a few days I'd like to know how resetting expectations is working for you all.

I am charging for food and good beds in my money house. So far I've had mostly a positive response. Only 1 or 2 complained and that fine with me. I do have serenade but I'm really stingy with it and never on demand. Say please and thank you and you have a much better chance with me.

Tonight I was at a house and the subject came up, I encouraged my host to charge for food. Some guest were in full and complete agreement. A few were not. I heard alot of, but its rude to charge, or im from the south we do things like that. I explained that they can use cash out in EA Land in the future and they can make real money from hosting, good service should be justly compensated, we cant count on tips, and we have potentially thousands of new players coming to the game in the future and its up to us to teach them how to play. It was an interesting debate and I probably made a few people mad at me, but to make change we must expect some hostility.

I look forward to hearing about your experiences.

 

[turtleface]

I'm glad to hear someone is charging for food and some stuff, I haven't seen anyone else do it yet. It's great that you got good responses- how much are you charging?

 

[Keep It Real]

Why not charge to sit down in a good chair, use a toilet, use the phone, and boot and ban those who do not pick up their own plates or mop up shower water too.

 

[Guest]

I charge $4 for food and $4 for good beds/toilets showers. (these are in the same room) Doors are one way so theres no charge to get out.

Your funny KIR but I might consider it!

 

[Keep It Real]

Maybe if someone close to the dev team can talk them into it, they might ask if they could program a ATM to go diredtly to players PayPal and sell the programable ATM's to players for 49.95 plus tax of course.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I charge $4 for food and $4 for good beds/toilets showers. (these are in the same room) Doors are one way so theres no charge to get out.

Your funny KIR but I might consider it!

[/ QUOTE ]
I presume you don't have the affrontery to have tip jars out?

For me, it's one or the other, not both - and you'll get more from me with a tip jar.

 

[Anonymous67]

how about no more serenades?

 

[Laverne]

Heavens! Charging for beds?? I'm sorry but you all sound like a flock of old, disgrunteled hens. I have a suggestion that I think is applicable:

Play the game the way YOU want and keep your nose out of other peoples' business. Stay away from trying to change the way other people play because IT'S NOT YOUR BUSINESS! My goodness, I feel sorry for your husbands!

If you hate hosting and think you can't afford it then don't! Find another goal in the game. Yes, it's expensive! Yes, I do it. Yes! I serenade. That's an individual choice I make! The Devs are all ready trying to bring in enough real life drugery, they don't need your help. If a little thing like "serenading" bothers you so much then DON'T DO IT &amp; refuse it! Pretty simple, eh?

Did you know that the little action of juggling to each other (in sim life) raises your fun? Heaven forbid! Are you all going to go after that next and demand we stare at teddy bears?

I'm not against constructive critisism or new ideas but how about we get off this habit of trying to have everyone conform to your personal views about how the game should be played?


Thanks!
Belle Starr
(CC, AV, BF, BV, TC3 &amp; EALand Beta)

 

[Guest]

How do you suggest I refuse a serenade?

If you dont like that I charge dont come to my house. Simple eh?

 

[Keep It Real]

Next we need to figure out how to charge for replies to threads and how to get paid to read some of them. PayPal? Stratics ATM's?

 

[imported_Shirl1211]

I totally agree with you Ronin. Maybe this is a solution for the *take advantage of the roomies* routine that alot of players seem to do. If they want the Ritz, let them pay for the Ritz!!! Great Idea!

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

How do you suggest I refuse a serenade?

If you dont like that I charge dont come to my house. Simple eh?

[/ QUOTE ]

The point I think Laverne was trying to make, which I agree with, is that if people want to start to charge at their houses then that's fine if that's the way they want to play. But it's wrong to try to encourage others to 'jump on the bandwagon' and charge too, because the fact of the matter is many people like us love the challenge of earning money to keep a house going without charging for things. People find challenge in this game however they can, and if there are people who enjoy providing things for others for free, then it's not right to try to discourage them from that, or make us feel like we are 'derailing an effort to make ungrateful sims more self-reliant' or whatever, which is exactly what some of the tones in the posts have been.

 

[Guest]

I've been running a skill house for the past couple of days and the majority of people are being very good about using the beds rather than expecting serenades.

I have had a few people angered when I refused to serenade them, and they left the lot in a huff. Which is fine by me, lol. I tell them I am providing good beds, use them. I haven't charged for anything, and it's costing me much more in food than the tips received. Maybe if I serenaded constantly instead of getting the skills I need myself they would tip more... ha ha I betcha lol. I have been there, done that, in TC3, it doesn't happen either way so I will keep skilling and they can keep floating on my air mattresses.

Anyone who doesn't like it, can go elsewhere

 

[Guest]

TTL.

I personally feel that instead of using pay doors, it is better to allow people to tip. That way if they feel you have been of good service they can tip you however much they seem fit. It has worked well the first days that EA Land has been open. Sometimes myself, or other roomies who are there will remind guests that tips are appreciated since we do not charge for anything.

 

[imported_Dali Dalinza]

<blockquote><hr>

But it's wrong to try to encourage others to 'jump on the bandwagon' and charge too, because the fact of the matter is many people like us love the challenge of earning money to keep a house going without charging for things.

[/ QUOTE ]

You run a skill house? In TC3 or EAL? Just wondering.

I have a casino, kaput until I earn enough to host fun activities. At the rate it's going, unless I hit the megabucks lottery in real life so I can buy my way to having enough to get by in game, I will be putting paydoors on the kitchen when I open. Think about it. In your rl you don't go to a restaurant and expect only to leave a tip.

As for serenades, I've been hypersensitive since reading this thread. And, omg, I am forever seeing skillers call out, "I need a few songs!" followed by "FOOD!" I don't care how accommodating a host is, I think any guest who demands services is rude. I've taken to saying, "Thanks for the serenade, but I'm green from using one of your excellent beds." I'm sure the demanding players think I'm a chump for leaving my skill post to use a bed, but pfffft.

 

[Guest]

I so disagree with this. I and many others going back to beta days have never seen the need to make this a monetary game. My personal enjoyment in this game has always been meeting people from all over the world. With the sell back of simoleans soon in EA Land, I do not feel this should be the reason you charge your guest now and should not even come into play. I sure hope this isn't what the future of ea land is, see how much you can earn by charging players for everything just so it can be cashed in. I never plan on cashing 1 simolean in (i pay enough already to irs) My homes will always remain free of charge, and seranades plus friendships will always be provided. If this means i get put on ignore, so be it. my reply don't come to my house then if you don't want to be treated like a friend or a guest. I do agree there are some rude players, and when its demanded I have the choice then and there if i want to run to them or make them wait (after explaining if they are in that need of sleep we do provide beds) Tipping is welcomed first time after 5 years of playing, but it is not mandatory. I would never charge my guest in real life for using my restroom or feeding them and I most certainly will not do it in a game. Bottom line is if some want to charge and make real money off this game that is fine for them, but there are still a few of us who play this game for the fun of it and do not wish to go down the route of making this an extra form of income. So I for one will not go along with any requests to charge players for any length of time. Some have said the reason host sing and don't charge is to be in the top... It's the players who make them on top not the singing nor the free food, and maybe its the fact some enjoy being a good host and guest enjoy being appreciated that they keep coming back to your house.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I would never charge my guest in real life for using my restroom or feeding them and I most certainly will not do it in a game

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a good point. Having 35 guests in your home is like throwing a dinner party...and when people do that, they don't charge a door fee unless they are a night club. 'Schools' also would charge, but that applies only if sims are actually doing the teaching, which is rarely the case anymore. The skill house now is more like a 'library' with food available, since books/items are available for sims to learn on, but it's nothing but 'independent study', and why would anybody pay for anything, except MAYBE food provided, to teach themselves, lol.

People will argue that they spend money on the beds, showers, toilets etc. but libraries spend money on their bookcases, comfy armchairs for people to sit in, tables for people to write stuff down while they study etc. etc. etc., yet the libraries only charge for the snacks that are sometimes available....I've yet to see one with a pay toilet, LOL. Just another affirmation to me that it's only appropriate to charge for food, if one even chooses to do that.

 

[imported_Dali Dalinza]

<blockquote><hr>

I so disagree with this. I and many others going back to beta days have never seen the need to make this a monetary game. My personal enjoyment in this game has always been meeting people from all over the world. With the sell back of simoleans soon in EA Land, I do not feel this should be the reason you charge your guest now and should not even come into play. I sure hope this isn't what the future of ea land is, see how much you can earn by charging players for everything just so it can be cashed in. I never plan on cashing 1 simolean in (i pay enough already to irs) My homes will always remain free of charge, and seranades plus friendships will always be provided. If this means i get put on ignore, so be it. my reply don't come to my house then if you don't want to be treated like a friend or a guest. I do agree there are some rude players, and when its demanded I have the choice then and there if i want to run to them or make them wait (after explaining if they are in that need of sleep we do provide beds) Tipping is welcomed first time after 5 years of playing, but it is not mandatory. I would never charge my guest in real life for using my restroom or feeding them and I most certainly will not do it in a game. Bottom line is if some want to charge and make real money off this game that is fine for them, but there are still a few of us who play this game for the fun of it and do not wish to go down the route of making this an extra form of income. So I for one will not go along with any requests to charge players for any length of time. Some have said the reason host sing and don't charge is to be in the top... It's the players who make them on top not the singing nor the free food, and maybe its the fact some enjoy being a good host and guest enjoy being appreciated that they keep coming back to your house.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mia, I think you misunderstand the gist of this thread. I think most posters share your love of hosting in order to meet and greet.

Niki and others are not discussing charging in order to make a profit -- they are talking about making ends meet.

Because players in our recent history were flush with cash, everyone gladhanded. Most hosts provided everything for free, and some added payouts.

Now money is tight for the majority of players. Charging to cover the cost of food is the main objective here.

I agree with you that the goal of earning money to sell back to EA is not what I hope will be the future for most players. I know it will be for some, but I doubt it will come from charging for food.

Mia, I think this is a short-term concern. In a few weeks many players will be flush with money again. Then tip jars will again be a rare sight.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

You run a skill house? In TC3 or EAL? Just wondering.

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither atm, however I did host a skill house, as a newish player with only enough to build the lot and sustain food for a short period of time before I had to go back to pizza'ing at night since the house generally slowed down in that time frame. So yes, if that's what you're getting out, I have, and will again, practice what I preach.

<blockquote><hr>

I have a casino, kaput until I earn enough to host fun activities. At the rate it's going, unless I hit the megabucks lottery in real life so I can buy my way to having enough to get by in game, I will be putting paydoors on the kitchen when I open. Think about it. In your rl you don't go to a restaurant and expect only to leave a tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you're right I don't. But nor would I expect to find pay toilets and sinks like some people are talking about having in their houses.....think about *that*....in neither a casino or a restaurant.

<blockquote><hr>

As for serenades, I've been hypersensitive since reading this thread. And, omg, I am forever seeing skillers call out, "I need a few songs!" followed by "FOOD!" I don't care how accommodating a host is, I think any guest who demands services is rude. I've taken to saying, "Thanks for the serenade, but I'm green from using one of your excellent beds." I'm sure the demanding players think I'm a chump for leaving my skill post to use a bed, but pfffft.

[/ QUOTE ]

There has been, and always will be, schmucks/jerks in the game. I refuse to let those sims make me become jaded to the point that I stop providing the same service I always have provided. When I see myself getting to that point, its time to take a break from hosting and go back to it when I have a fresh attitude. I truly believe that resentment/jaded attitudes is what is causing alot of the greed that is showing back up in game. That, and as MIANANMES said, the prospect of selling simoleans back to EA. It makes sense now that alot of sims would be alot less willing to stay broke since it now potentially takes RL money out of their pocket. What surprises me most is not that attitude, that's at least predictable, but rather the specific PEOPLE who have it. *sigh*

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Mia, I think you misunderstand the gist of this thread. I think most posters share your love of hosting in order to meet and greet.

[/ QUOTE ]

You think so? Honestly that's not the vibe I take away off some people from this thread.

<blockquote><hr>

Niki and others are not discussing charging in order to make a profit -- they are talking about making ends meet.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are game mechanics besides charging for things that make this possible....you make it sound as if there's no other way in game to earn money. Plus, there's a very fine wire between 'making ends meet' and 'turning a profit'....a line that many players will not hesitate to cross if allowed.

<blockquote><hr>

Because players in our recent history were flush with cash, everyone gladhanded. Most hosts provided everything for free, and some added payouts.

Now money is tight for the majority of players. Charging to cover the cost of food is the main objective here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I call pure BS here. If that's the truly overall goal then explain to me why some players have gone beyond charging for food to charging for things like beds, showers and toilets.

<blockquote><hr>

I agree with you that the goal of earning money to sell back to EA is not what I hope will be the future for most players. I know it will be for some, but I doubt it will come from charging for food.

Mia, I think this is a short-term concern. In a few weeks many players will be flush with money again. Then tip jars will again be a rare sight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh so you're only talking about charging as a temporary measure and then going back to offering things for free? That's not at all what I got from this thread....what I have seen from people, including you, is that we need to change sim's attitude on as permanent a basis as we can. Is your tune changing or is that a crawfish attempt to make the undertones not seem as bad as they currently do?

Edited to fix pesky quote code errors.

 

[Guest]

Thanks Dali,

I want people to know that I have my pay doors set to be free for friends, so if a guest is sociable with myself or my roomies they enjoy the same hospitality I would offer in RL. I've had some guests run home and green between pizza rounds, they did that in TC3 too when I did offer free food, but I was a lousy cook in TC3 so it was better for them to go home I guess. *shrugs*

Its not about getting rich, Ive havent charged for services since DC and before that in beta. At some point I may stop charging in EA Land too, but I'm not making any promises. I will never jump to my guests demands. I wouldnt in RL either, but then I doubt any of my RL friends would walk in my house and yell FOOD! Well maybe if I invited them over for my famous cheeseburger chowder.

Most people who hang out at my house are very nice about things and I want them to know just how much I appreciate it.

 

[Guest]

Carrie are you thinking I got the beds and toilets at my house for free somewhere? I assure you I did not.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I will never jump to my guests demands. I wouldnt in RL either, but then I doubt any of my RL friends would walk in my house and yell FOOD! Well maybe if I invited them over for my famous cheeseburger chowder.

[/ QUOTE ]

You haven't lived until you've entertained 10-13 upper teenage boys all chanting "FOOD! FOOD! FOOD!" and banging on the tables like you see in the movies, when the only food available is hubby's famous Broccoli Cheese soup, and they know this and STILL chant. LMAO. That's the image this comment conjured.

Seriously, I wouldn't take too kindly to a guest shouting "FOOD" unless it was followed by "please!" at least, or unless I had gone into daydreaming mode and wasn't paying attention and therefore needed to be yelled at to draw my attention back to the game and hosting.

 

[Guest]

Ok...there have been endless threads on how TSO is *not* like real life, but it is still fun, playing the, This-Isn't-How-They-Do-This-in-RealLife game.....so I will play, too.

<blockquote><hr>

People will argue that they spend money on the beds, showers, toilets etc. but libraries spend money on their bookcases, comfy armchairs for people to sit in, tables for people to write stuff down while they study etc. etc. etc., yet the libraries only charge for the snacks that are sometimes available....I've yet to see one with a pay toilet, LOL. Just another affirmation to me that it's only appropriate to charge for food, if one even chooses to do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had to laugh, because everyone *is* paying (thru the nose) for the toilet at the library....with their taxes....which pays for both the schools and the libraries...and all other publicly available buildings and services, whether we use them or not!

Night clubs and restuarants include the cost, of having and maintaining a restroom, in the price of the food.


If you want to draw a rl parallel, how about comparing skill houses to Country Clubs? Or charter schools? No pay toilets, but big bucks, just to get in the door!

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Carrie are you thinking I got the beds and toilets at my house for free somewhere? I assure you I did not.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, of course not....but if you had a group of people over for a sleepover for some reason, would you charge them to use the amenities in the guest bedroom? And they wouldn't even have to be friends. Imagine you were putting up acquaintances that were on a layover for a business conference or something. I consider beds and toilets the cost of doing business in-game, and I just don't see any reason to pass that expense on to my guests, since it is one time expense. Beds do not even require the cost of repairs, so charging to use those is purely profit once you make back the money you spent on buying it in the first place....and they never have to be replaced either unless they poof due to game glitch, which again is something that is not the guest's fault in any way, so I don't think it should be their responsibility to pay for it.

 

[Guest]

But I also wouldnt be giving up my own super comfy bed to them and sleeping on the pull out sofa. How bout I put my good bed in my own private bedroom and not allow gests to use it? As I stated earlier, cheap beds are free at my house.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

If you want to draw a rl parallel, how about comparing skill houses to Country Clubs? Or charter schools? No pay toilets, but big bucks, just to get in the door!

[/ QUOTE ]

Country clubs? How in the world can you draw a comparison between a country club and a skill house? Country clubs are mostly for entertainment. The only entertainment present on skill lots is those required to bring up fun. As for charter schools, like I said in a previous post, a skill house to me is only a school if the hosts are actually TEACHING. I am willing to pay a premium price for a teacher should I ever seek one out to use their services, but that's completely different than just a library setting to set up an 'independent study' situation. That would be closer to a Student Union or library type situation.

Bottom line, I can't think of any argument that would convince me that it's appropriate to charge for anything besides food in any category besides entertainment...with a small door charge being allowed for entertainment because you'd expect to pay per person to get into a nightclub or any place such as that, in addition to paying for drinks. That is the prime reason that alot of people choose not to patronize places like that though.....there's just better and cheaper ways to spend one's entertainment budget.

However, if people want to charge for stuff like that, then I think it's only appropriate to say that you do so that those that find that kind of behavior abberant can steer clear. I don't think it's acceptable to try to encourage others to do the same, or to make them feel like they are causing harm to the game, instilling selfishness in players if they don't, even by offering serenades, some players have intimated! That's why I have a big problem with this thread. What a person does on their own lot is their own business.....it's when they go advertising it and trying to get others to join them that it becomes everybody else's business or everybody else's problem.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

But I also wouldnt be giving up my own super comfy bed to them and sleeping on the pull out sofa. How bout I put my good bed in my own private bedroom and not allow gests to use it? As I stated earlier, cheap beds are free at my house.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some people use pull-out sofas or cheap mattresses.....others at least spring for decent single bed mattresses and pretty sheets, even if it's not a Sealy Posturopedic mattress and silk sheets *shrugs*. Personally, whether RL or game, I want my guests to be as comfortable as I can make them, and I wouldn't tell them how much I'd spent on bedding and ask for donations or part of that back as compensation for having them in my home. If I didn't want them there and enjoy having them simply on merit, they wouldn't be there.....period. We have that option in game too with the ban list. If I felt this way, my house would be on 'admit list only' and only my friends would be there.....I wouldn't invite people into my home, which is what anybody who doesn't have a private house in game does, and then make them feel like they are burdening me by being there, which is the message I would be sending if I put out a coffee can (tip jar) or asked them to chip in for the groceries I'd bought in preparation for their arrival. It seems my hosting theories are not as 'PC' as I thought they were, though *shrugs again*

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Country clubs? How in the world can you draw a comparison between a country club and a skill house? Country clubs are mostly for entertainment. The only entertainment present on skill lots is those required to bring up fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, let me see...

Pool tables
Virtual reality glasses
Large screen TV's
Swimming pools
Banks of computers to play games on

Luxurious beds &amp; shower facilities
a gourmet kitchen/dining room, with on-demand sittings
and a place to learn a new skill or improve one....alone or with help....(can we say: golf, tennis, racketball?)

Hummmm, you are partially correct, it does have more in common with The Canyon Ranch Spa, than the Foothills Country Club, which has no beds....but a one week stay at the Spa, is as much, as a one year membership in the Country Club.....so my comparison gets even better.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Country clubs? How in the world can you draw a comparison between a country club and a skill house? Country clubs are mostly for entertainment. The only entertainment present on skill lots is those required to bring up fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, let me see...

Pool tables
Virtual reality glasses
Large screen TV's
Swimming pools
Banks of computers to play games on

Luxurious beds &amp; shower facilities
a gourmet kitchen/dining room, with on-demand sittings
and a place to learn a new skill or improve one....alone or with help....(can we say: golf, tennis, racketball?)

Hummmm, you are partially correct, it does have more in common with The Canyon Ranch Spa, than the Foothills Country Club, which has no beds....but a one week stay at the Spa, is as much, as a one year membership in the Country Club.....so my comparison gets even better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Still, like I said, most skill houses only have 'fun' items because it is essential to bring up fun for sims to keep skilling, and mostly then its just pool tables and computers......I can't recall the last time I saw the VR glasses on a skill lot or really any category other than entertainment or offbeat. When you offer the bear minimum like that, then I don't see how you can expect anything beyond bare minimum compensation (tips)

As far as skill houses providing beds and showers, are you suggesting that if people don't wish to pay for those things, that they should have to go home and take a shower and sleep on their own lot? See, I'd have no problem at all with that, if not for the fact that there is a cap on the number of people who can fit on a lot....thus if I do run home to green, there'd be a chance I couldn't get back in. That's game mechanics though, and not my fault, so why should you or any other house owner expect me to be responsible for it in the form of paying you to provide it, when nobody is forcing you to host a house in the first place?

 

[Guest]

Just a thought I've heard expressed in game here...

What if only owner/roomies were allowed to green on non service lots and everyone else was required to visit service lots or go home?

 

[Guest]

Oh please!

No one is forcing anyone to do anything, include skilling themselves red, rather than go green, at home or in a provided bed.

You are trying to change the point, which is that you can not claim that these items, if offered in one place in the real world, would not come with a real...and substantial cost.

There is no place in real life, where someone could walk in off the street, into a strange space, and have all of these features at their beck and call. Anyplace that you could get these things, would be a tax supported, public facility or a for profit business, and you would be paying one way or another for the use of it all.

There is no moral, ethical or 'good manners' reason, to not charge for food and facilities in a skill or money house.

That said, if people want to offer free food, facilities or serenade, as an incentive to repeat business, that is a personal call....and if they run out of money or burn out on demanding guests, so be it.

But don't waste my time, waxing nostagic about the 'good times' when the good ones, are burnt out and gone.

 

[Guest]

Interesting thought Niki !

I've been busy skilling 3 sims in EA-Land in various skills, its interesting seeing the reactions of players to the different ways they are being run. I've seen a few instances of complaints when the roomies have said they don't have serenade and please use the beds. In some places I've skilled in people have quickly got used to greening their own sims and not complained at all. Its actually been rather refreshing.

On the whole, people have been very happy to help contribute to the costs of the owners/roomies by tipping regularly, particularly when the owner/roomie says they'll have to close soon to get more money.

I've also seen sims giving gifts to people trying to set up homes in order to help them stay open, cater to the sims that keep turning up. Mostly its a spirit of helping each other out, with a few ungrateful sims thrown in expecting to get everything for nothing.

The thing that I find the most frustrating is when roomies run around serenading instead of helping out with speed or money objects - we're all there to skill or make as much money as quickly as possible. Personally I'd prefer to green my own sim and get the best skill speed/make the best money possible, rather then seeing 3 roomies running around doing nothing but serenading while I'm skilling at 85% or making less money with 9 other sims.

Polly

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

There is no moral, ethical or 'good manners' reason, to not charge for food and facilities in a skill or money house.

That said, if people want to offer free food, facilities or serenade, as an incentive to repeat business, that is a personal call....and if they run out of money or burn out on demanding guests, so be it.

But don't waste my time, waxing nostagic about the 'good times' when the good ones, are burnt out and gone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on point #1 since it is obvious minds won't be changed in either direction. To me, it is very much a question of etiquette. Like you said in point #2, you play your game your way, and I play mine my way and as long as you don't try to force your way onto me, then everything is kosher. As for the 3rd point.....

, damn, not sure what to say about that, other than thanks for illustrating my point about jaded and resentful attitudes.

 

[Guest]

The mindless overuse of serenade is a sore point with me, too.

They are so busy queing people up, that they overlap, and yes, I too would rather have help on the skilling speed than ever-maxed energy/social green bars!

Another place it is starting to irritate, is the factory job. Now that more folks have serenade (energy/social), they have stopped giving juggle (fun) and backrub (comfort)....and it doesn't matter which bar takes you into the red, once you are red you can not activate stations.

Plus it is impossible to que interactions to raise thier stats when they are constantly on their knees!

So, please, people....use a little common sense! Ask if someone needs a serenade or skill speed help. No one is going to stop skilling over a half to 3/4th social or energy bar. And in the factory, one serenade, a juggle and a backrub is far better than a whole slew of serenades you cant use.

Personally, I would like to see serenade become an accept or deny interaction....that way we can stop over-greening by eager serenaders.

typo

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I've been busy skilling 3 sims in EA-Land in various skills, its interesting seeing the reactions of players to the different ways they are being run. I've seen a few instances of complaints when the roomies have said they don't have serenade and please use the beds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't like it either way, but if phrased the way you put it rather than the pissy "Use a bed you lazy ass!", it would be at least a bit better received, in my case.

<blockquote><hr>

On the whole, people have been very happy to help contribute to the costs of the owners/roomies by tipping regularly, particularly when the owner/roomie says they'll have to close soon to get more money.

I've also seen sims giving gifts to people trying to set up homes in order to help them stay open, cater to the sims that keep turning up. Mostly its a spirit of helping each other out, with a few ungrateful sims thrown in expecting to get everything for nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've said before I don't mind a bit giving a struggling roomie a hand-up, or putting money in a tip jar even over and beyond what I eat if I can can afford it. It's when it's 'forced' as not a choice but a requirement, that I begin to be resentful, even of paying a lesser amount than I would have tipped. Nobody likes to be told how to play their game, so it shouldn't be a surprise that there are those who don't like being dictated to how much they will pay for this or that, or that they must pay when they can't afford it. I've always found that I got farther giving people a choice with a tip jar than by saying "You WILL do this, or you can starve, or leave...." Some of us didn't take orders real well as children, so its logical that we wouldn't as adults, especially when playing a game designed for enjoyment.

<blockquote><hr>

The thing that I find the most frustrating is when roomies run around serenading instead of helping out with speed or money objects - we're all there to skill or make as much money as quickly as possible. Personally I'd prefer to green my own sim and get the best skill speed/make the best money possible, rather then seeing 3 roomies running around doing nothing but serenading while I'm skilling at 85% or making less money with 9 other sims.

[/ QUOTE ]
I can understand that perspective, and I don't need serenades as much when making money as when skilling, unless I red out just moments away from finishing a single job object and *really* would like to finish it, or I do appreciate a dedicated serenader when on a pro-pizza team....you'd be amazed what a difference just someone making rounds doing that makes in the amount of time you can stay at the pizza table, and therefore what a difference it makes in your per round gains. More often than not though, it's been other guests who are waiting for a spot on a skilled team, rather than a roomie who has been dedicated to that serenading......at least it was in the production cities. I myself got a kick out of serenading team members in TC3....surprisingly they were really grateful, despite the image depicted here of sims feeling they 'deserve' it. They rarely tipped, but then I didn't expect or ask for tips either. Just the 'thank you's made my evening most of the time....but from the tone of some of the posts (not specifically yours, Polly) I'm getting the impression that I am easy to please as a host or helper, even if I do have high standards as a guest. On skill lots though, it is indeed the roomie that usually does the serenading, though I have personally not witnessed one serenade in favor of not helping out with skill speed, unless they were unaware for some reason that skill speed needed a boost.

Sometimes I wonder if I am playing a different game from other people, or if I just frequent the right places to not run into the majority of these 'greedy, ungrateful' sims that several have made reference to. I've met a few, but they were by no means the general rule, or maybe it is that I was just fixated on the gems rather than the coal, so to speak?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

That's a good point. Having 35 guests in your home is like throwing a dinner party...and when people do that, they don't charge a door fee unless they are a night club

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually its nothing like throwing a dinner party. When you host a dinner party for 35 guests, you all sit down and eat at the same time - just the one meal, you may serve several courses, but generally you would all eat together. You might even consider outside catering for that number of guests, or some might bring various dishes along to help out.

In TSO you have 35 people in a room, all hungry at different times. The host might cook ($24) and 34 ppl might not be paying attention. The food will waste and 2 people will come back from afk and ask to be fed. The host cooks again ($24). 3 people eat, the rest of the food goes to waste. One times out and one errors. Two new guests arrive, both starving. The host cooks ($24), 3 ppl come back from afk and so 5 guests eat. Its nearly time for work, the host makes 2 plates of HC ($48), its gone within seconds as 12 hungry sims come back from afk to green before the factory. They leave to go to work and are replaced with 8 new sims. All this in the first 30 minutes of hosting. Rinse repeat in a continuous cycle for hours on end. Costs start to add up after a while ...

Polly

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Actually its nothing like throwing a dinner party. When you host a dinner party for 35 guests, you all sit down and eat at the same time - just the one meal, you may serve several courses, but generally you would all eat together. You might even consider outside catering for that number of guests, or some might bring various dishes along to help out.

In TSO you have 35 people in a room, all hungry at different times. The host might cook ($24) and 34 ppl might not be paying attention. The food will waste and 2 people will come back from afk and ask to be fed. The host cooks again ($24). 3 people eat, the rest of the food goes to waste. One times out and one errors. Two new guests arrive, both starving. The host cooks ($24), 3 ppl come back from afk and so 5 guests eat. Its nearly time for work, the host makes 2 plates of HC ($48), its gone within seconds as 12 hungry sims come back from afk to green before the factory. They leave to go to work and are replaced with 8 new sims. All this in the first 30 minutes of hosting. Rinse repeat in a continuous cycle for hours on end. Costs start to add up after a while ...

Polly

[/ QUOTE ]

Point taken, but still....hosting is a purely optional thing. Nobody *has* to do it, and nobody said every house has to be open 24/7 the way the top houses had begun to in the production cities, this is a prime reason I want to see the top 100 list revamped. Running a lot is like running a business. If you can't afford the overhead of the business, then either you're not in business, or you need to stay open less so your overhead (bills) are less. Plus, as I said, its not so much the charging of those plates of HC that I mind as it is charging for barfet (

you'd have to pay ME to eat that crap), and charging to use beds, toilets and showers. All the latter, IMO, should be reimbursed to the owner of the object by nothing other than voluntary tips left by guests. Tips probably would not be enough to cover the cost of food, but I'd bet it would come alot closer to covering repair costs, especially hiring the repairman vs. trying to pay the repair cost of doing it yourself. If people *just* charged for food, and kept the other stuff complimentary, you'd hear ALOT less griping from me, and from alot of the other guests, I bet. Yeah, you'd still have some from the true freeloaders who want everything for nothing, but it'd go down by half, I'd venture to guess.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Running a lot is like running a business. If you can't afford the overhead of the business, then either you're not in business, or you need to stay open less so your overhead (bills) are less.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or you need to charge to cover your costs. And if you really want to increase your opening hours, you set your charge to make a profit to cover the additional overheads you incur for staying open longer.

Why be in business to make a loss, isn't the point of running a business to make a profit - or at the very least break even?

When someone starts a business the cost of start up - buying the equipment, premises, staff costs, overheads is worked into the price being set for the service provided in order to a) cover the costs of start up and b) make a profit for that business to grow.

Some see opening a lot as running a business, some see it as inviting guests into their home. Some wish to cover their own personal costs, some are happy to run at a loss/fund it themselves.

Lets not forget there is no sim or property bonus, there is no additional funding for owners/roomies. The cost of the lot, the expansion, the objects placed on the lot, the decor, the flowers, every meal cooked is funded by the owner/and or roomies. All to provide us with a place to visit/skill/make money at. IMHO the very least we can do is tidy up after ourselves and tip handsomely.

If the owner/roomie wants to charge for food and for using their facilities, thats perfectly acceptable to me, afterall they had to take the time out to skill up and earn the money to buy everything for us to use.

Polly

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Lets not forget there is no sim or property bonus, there is no additional funding for owners/roomies. The cost of the lot, the expansion, the objects placed on the lot, the decor, the flowers, every meal cooked is funded by the owner/and or roomies. All to provide us with a place to visit/skill/make money at. IMHO the very least we can do is tidy up after ourselves and tip handsomely.

If the owner/roomie wants to charge for food and for using their facilities, thats perfectly acceptable to me, afterall they had to take the time out to skill up and earn the money to buy everything for us to use.

Polly

[/ QUOTE ]

You make it sound like people are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, when they'd rather be doing something else. If the host or roomie at the house I'm in feels this way, personally I'd rather that house be closed, even if it means I have to wait for another time when there is a house open with an owner/roomies who host because they LOVE doing it, and for no other reason.....not because they make a profit, not for the 'benefits' they get out of it, but simply because they love to do it. I realize there are few people that agree, all I wish is that those who don't agree would stop trying to change the minds of those that do. Surely we've gone round-and-round with this debate long enough to realize that opinions on either side are not going to be changed???? Look at just the posts today, we've been debating this for hours, and we've gotten nowhere. You're not anymore convinced that you are wrong than I am that I am wrong, so why keep hammering it. If you have guests at your house running things the way you do then fine, more power to you. Just don't expect people to be happy about it if you try to influence others to play that way.

 

[Guest]

This quote from Nikki sures sounds like for profit to me " I explained that they can use cash out in EA Land in the future and they can make real money from hosting, "

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

This quote from Nikki sures sounds like for profit to me " I explained that they can use cash out in EA Land in the future and they can make real money from hosting, "

[/ QUOTE ]

Ouch. Yeah, it does, but knowing Nikki like I hope I do, I don't think she meant it the way it came out. I think she meant that other people could charge in there homes too IF they wanted to use the cashout feature, and make RL money, not that she herself was necessarily planning on doing it.......again, I *hope*

 

[Guest]

I agree, in the past i have given up my bed for guests and my husband and I slept on the couch and now i have a queen size water bed in a spare bedroom and twin beds in another for guests. So once again I would never charge my guests friends or not for sleeping. Guess that comes from my up bringing to open your house to friends and friends friends and when somebody comes to visit you feed them weither they are hungry or not. Growing up with anybody who comes in your house, including repairmen to offer something to eat/drink

 

[Guest]

When i throw a party i am putting out food for 6 hours or so its not a sit, eat and be done. And when its 35 people its usually a help your self with me freshening up the food the entire time my guests are there

sorry this post was in respond to Polly

 

[Laverne]

Polly said: "The thing that I find the most frustrating is when roomies run around serenading instead of helping out with speed or money objects - we're all there to skill or make as much money as quickly as possible. Personally I'd prefer to green my own sim and get the best skill speed/make the best money possible, rather then seeing 3 roomies running around doing nothing but serenading while I'm skilling at 85% or making less money with 9 other sims. "


Polly, at 85% speed, that means there are only 4 people skilling. Either you are gravely mistaken or not being totally honest in order to support this latest "cause". With only 4 sims skilling, it's highly doubtful 3 roomies are 'running around doing nothing but serenading'. Even if they were, it's not your duty to change their attitude. Nothing wrong with helpful hints or suggestions, just quit trying to control other people style of game play. Don't like the way a house is ran? Leave. Good try.

To all of you who are trying to 'change sims' expectations'.. Stop it. It's not your job.

Nikki, if your goal is to make as much money as possible then I suggest you change your property to a residence and spend your game time at the money houses. I'm not trying to change your expectation..just a suggestion.

To the people who enjoy hosting, don't let this little 'cabal' get to you. Hang in there and enjoy your game. I will continue to treat my guests as guests and not as statistics or dollar signs. I do quite well on tips though I don't beg for them..it's not the reason why I host. When I run low on mulah, I take a day away from hosting and hit the money houses. The same goes for when I need to work on my own skills. That's what I enjoy and its great to see how other people do things.

To Mia Names: You run one of the nicest skill houses in TC3. The hosts are awesome, the atmosphere is fun and skilling is always 118%. Keep up the good work!

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Polly, at 85% speed, that means there are only 4 people skilling. Either you are gravely mistaken or not being totally honest in order to support this latest "cause". With only 4 sims skilling, it's highly doubtful 3 roomies are 'running around doing nothing but serenading'. Good try.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to spoil your diss of Polly.....but I have seen the same thing happen. And it was not on a lot that Polly was visiting...or even online!

It happens in multi-skill houses (for example, when there are serveral people skilling mech and cooking)....the roomies run around serenading one right behind the other, rather than helping the skill rate on the less represented skill. It has not just happened once in a single house, but repeatedly in different houses.

It qualifies as a true phenomena, whether you have personally seen it or not.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Polly said: "The thing that I find the most frustrating is when roomies run around serenading instead of helping out with speed or money objects - we're all there to skill or make as much money as quickly as possible. Personally I'd prefer to green my own sim and get the best skill speed/make the best money possible, rather then seeing 3 roomies running around doing nothing but serenading while I'm skilling at 85% or making less money with 9 other sims. "

Polly, at 85% speed, that means there are only 4 people skilling. Either you are gravely mistaken or not being totally honest in order to support this latest "cause". With only 4 sims skilling, it's highly doubtful 3 roomies are 'running around doing nothing but serenading'. Good try.



[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry not mistaken, it was a multi-skill lot, the other skill had 5 ppl studying it, a few were greening, the roomies were serenading rather then helping either skill with speed. It struck me because in days gone by, helping with speed always seemed to be the main priority rather then doing other things.

Btw I spent a considerable amount of time on your lot the other day, you're an awesome host and have a really lovely lot. I've also been to Mia's lot - she too is a great host.

My point really is that just because someone wishes to recoup their costs in running a busy lot, does not make them a bad host or an evil person, it just means they play differently to those that don't. I have equal respect for both, hosting a lot with 30 or 35 people on it is most definitely not an easy job and I have every admiration for those that do so.

Polly

 

[Laverne]

Um..Gilly I wasn't "dissing" anyone. Just making a point. Calm down.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Polly said: "The thing that I find the most frustrating is when roomies run around serenading instead of helping out with speed or money objects - we're all there to skill or make as much money as quickly as possible. Personally I'd prefer to green my own sim and get the best skill speed/make the best money possible, rather then seeing 3 roomies running around doing nothing but serenading while I'm skilling at 85% or making less money with 9 other sims. "


Polly, at 85% speed, that means there are only 4 people skilling. Either you are gravely mistaken or not being totally honest in order to support this latest "cause". With only 4 sims skilling, it's highly doubtful 3 roomies are 'running around doing nothing but serenading'. Even if they were, it's not your duty to change their attitude. Nothing wrong with helpful hints or suggestions, just quit trying to control other people style of game play. Don't like the way a house is ran? Leave. Good try.

To all of you who are trying to 'change sims' expectations'.. Stop it. It's not your job.

Nikki, if your goal is to make as much money as possible then I suggest you change your property to a residence and spend your game time at the money houses. I'm not trying to change your expectation..just a suggestion.

To the people who enjoy hosting, don't let this little 'cabal' get to you. Hang in there and enjoy your game. I will continue to treat my guests as guests and not as statistics or dollar signs. I do quite well on tips though I don't beg for them..it's not the reason why I host. When I run low on mulah, I take a day away from hosting and hit the money houses. The same goes for when I need to work on my own skills. That's what I enjoy and its great to see how other people do things.

To Mia Names: You run one of the nicest skill houses in TC3. The hosts are awesome, the atmosphere is fun and skilling is always 118%. Keep up the good work!

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree 100% with nearly everything you said, except I think Polly's example was skilling *or* making money, not both, though the way it's worded it does seem kind of confusing. Like you though, *if* I did see a case like she's talking about, of 3 roomies doing serenading all at once, that to me is a tale-tell sign that the roomies are inexperienced at hosting or new players, and that the owner is at fault for not taking the time to train those roomies to delegate responsibility.....to have ONE person doing serenade rounds while another, or both of the others were helping with skilling/making money levels, if needed. That's the fault of the owner, and an individual basis thing and should not be used as an argument against serenading being a part of a well-run, experienced house. The bests hosts are able to make sure everything gets done, which I won't even begin to say is easy, but that is part of the challenge. If one does not want that challenge, then they need to just be a guest rather than a host, IMO.

Otherwise Laverne, thank you for saying more bluntly what I was trying to say diplomatically....which was getting harder and harder after fighting this issue for literally 4 hours off and on at least. LOL.