Regarding The Constant Baiting, Trolling, and Insults In The Siege Forum

[Lore Denin (GL)]

I think if hi-5 can put their passion for VvV artifacts behind a compromised plan that gets VvV artifacts here without owner tags, usable by all, then that is the most likely path for change.

I have seen/heard the Dev's say "as is".... but I have also seen them change their minds when an overwhelming majority petitions for a change and I think that is what it will take.

I'd write up a petition for VvV artifacts to be implemented on Siege without VvV tags so anyone could use. I'd work to get people from Gil to hi-5 and everyone inbetween on board. It would take some compromise on all sides but I believe it could work.

If someone else wants to do this and get the ball rolling, I will support your effort and sign your petition. It doesn't have to be me, it just has to make sense for all the playstyles of siege. The bottomline; It can not benefit one style of play at the expense of all others because you will never get the support of other playstyles.

-Lore

 

[Captn Norrington]

I have a serious question, Captn.

If a poster admits to cheating in a post it´s no longer an accusation, now is it?


Here´s two recent examples of players who belong to the same guild:



A reference to his little mistake when posting screenshots from an event.






Both quotes, made by the guildmaster himself, are from the classic cry thread on UHall.
Macroing in your house?


So since both of these two have admitted, here on the forums, to being a cheater ingame, label them as cheaters, here on the forum should be allowed IMO. Afterall, in the end, we´re just kind of quoting them but with less words...

That's a very good point that I hadn't considered. The RoC says accusations of cheating are against the rules, but yet someone admitting that they cheat is technically also accusing themselves of cheating....

I will bring this up with the other staff members, hopefully we can have a discussion about that and see if the rule could be changed a bit.

Thank you for pointing that out

 

[Eärendil]

I think if hi-5 can put their passion for VvV artifacts behind a compromised plan that gets VvV artifacts here without owner tags, usable by all, then that is the most likely path for change.

I have seen/heard the Dev's say "as is".... but I have also seen them change their minds when an overwhelming majority petitions for a change and I think that is what it will take.

I'd write up a petition for VvV artifacts to be implemented on Siege without VvV tags so anyone could use. I'd work to get people from Gil to hi-5 and everyone inbetween on board. It would take some compromise on all sides but I believe it could work.

If someone else wants to do this and get the ball rolling, I will support your effort and sign your petition. It doesn't have to be me, it just has to make sense for all the playstyles of siege. The bottomline; It can not benefit one style of play at the expense of all others because you will never get the support of other playstyles.

-Lore

Lore, this only makes sense, if it does not destroy the normal artifact-market. If VvV-players can flood the market with arties which are better than the normal arties, classic PVM would be dead. Who would want to do Lady M. then, if you can get a better version this way?

 

[Lady Michelle]

just for you a naked rat

 

[FrejaSP]

Lore, this only makes sense, if it does not destroy the normal artifact-market. If VvV-players can flood the market with arties which are better than the normal arties, classic PVM would be dead. Who would want to do Lady M. then, if you can get a better version this way?

As there are no Luck on the VvV artifacts, people will still want to farm artifacts with luck. Second, I believe we will see more recipes, that use old artifacts to make a new and better version. Lets see what Pub 95 brings. It should be on TC this week.

I'd write up a petition for VvV artifacts to be implemented on Siege without VvV tags so anyone could use. I'd work to get people from Gil to hi-5 and everyone inbetween on board. It would take some compromise on all sides but I believe it could work.

Go for it Lore, I believe you are the right person to do it

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Lore, this only makes sense, if it does not destroy the normal artifact-market. If VvV-players can flood the market with arties which are better than the normal arties, classic PVM would be dead. Who would want to do Lady M. then, if you can get a better version this way?

I agree to a point. VvV artifacts are antique so need to be replaced often unlike the real ones. I am not sure what market there is for artifacts.... things I often seek people say they unraveled, "Fang of Ractus, Serpents Fang, Banshee's call, Task Master" to just name a few I have been looking for.... then for the more rare ones they are usually to expensive but at the same time useless because I would have to use a siege bless at the expense of something else to make it worth the investment.

I support the idea of either lowering them to the same level as normal artifacts or update the older artifacts to match the VvV versions (and current game)[Reading Freja remarks above it seems this might already be in the works for pub 95]. I also believe npc prices are higher on siege and this should be reflected in VvV artifacts which would make them harder to acquire and put them on par with the time investment to gain the artifacts through pvm.

But with limited attention from Dev's and balancing everything, it may be a matter of picking our battles. I think the largest factor remains who can use them because at a bare minimum pvmers and pvpers will both have access to the same items.

I think its also important to note that the artifacts in VvV are limited to older artifacts so all the new top end artifacts remain exclusively pvm. This keeps the pvm ahead of the curve and at the forefront of valuable artifacts and trade (as it should be).

-Lore

 

[Eärendil]

I agree to a point. VvV artifacts are antique so need to be replaced often unlike the real ones. I am not sure what market there is for artifacts on siege.... things I often seek people say they unraveled, "Fang of Ractus, Serpents Fang, Banshee's call, Task Master" to just name a few I have been looking for.... then for the more rare ones they are usually to expensive but at the same time useless because I would have to use a siege bless at the expense of something else to make it worth the investment.

I support the idea of either lowering them to the same level as normal artifacts or ideally updating the older artifacts to match the VvV versions (and current game). I also believe npc prices are higher on siege and this should be reflected in VvV artifacts which would make them harder to acquire and put them on par with the time investment to gain the artifacts through pvm.

But with limited attention from Dev's and balancing everything, it may be a matter of picking our battles. I think the largest factor remains who can use them because at a bare minimum pvmers and pvpers will both have access to the same items.

I think its also important to note that the artifacts in VvV are limited to older artifacts so all the new top end artifacts remain exclusively pvm. This keeps the pvm ahead of the curve and at the forefront of valuable artifacts and trade (as it should be).

-Lore

Well, I can still do my little hunts with some folks even if the artifacts will not be desired anymore after such a change - if it will ever come. To me, its about fun, not about value. Anyways. I am not too emotionally involved here anymore. Since this imposter issue and all the harrassment and attacks I have lost alot of passion. I withdrew from GC and I am slightly withdrawing from this forum. Maybe I will withdraw from other activities. I dont care about this VVV- / PVP-stuff, so: You guys just do whatever makes you happy.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Well, I can still do my little hunts with some folks even if the artifacts will not be desired anymore after such a change - if it will ever come. To me, its about fun, not about value. Anyways. I am not too emotionally involved here anymore. Since this imposter issue and all the harrassment and attacks I have lost alot of passion. I withdrew from GC and I am slightly withdrawing from this forum. Maybe I will withdraw from other activities. I just dont feel comfortable on SP anymore since all the destructive events. I dont care about this VVV- / PVP-stuff, so: You guys just do whatever makes you happy.

To be clear, I support bringing VvV items to siege (and have long before Hi-5 arrived) BUT I do not condone the harassment you have endured. You have valid reasons to not want VvV artifacts and so even if its not my opinion, I support you in yours.

-Lore

 

[cazador]

VvV items would encourage other small pvp groups to make characters on Siege in all honesty. Not sure the core community actually wants that though :/


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[Critical Gaming]

VvV items would encourage other small pvp groups to make characters on Siege in all honesty. Not sure the core community actually wants that though :/


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I think this is where the opposition honestly stems from.

If I had to vote for them to be here even without the VvV tags I'd do it but MAN would that be gaudy. Like what's the allure to join VvV then lol. Removing the name tags would make more sense, but making them so non-VvV just makes it feel butchered.

Someone previously had stated a trial period for one publish with "just turning it on". I think that would be a good idea. What does everyone else think?

 

[FrejaSP]

Removing the name tags would make more sense, but making them so non-VvV just makes it feel butchered.

I believe most PvP'ers will be in VvV anywaý, so if a PvM'er should success killing a VvV'er, I think they do deserve to be able to use the loot. The old Noto PK's died with the orange flaging so I don't believe it is a big deal, that they can be used of all.

 

[Gunth]

Arrghhhhhhhhh! Thanks for that but sadly I was already running classic so I still can't use it. I don't know what happened to it but at some point pincos just totally lagged to hell on me a couple of publishes ago, was a post on Uhall about it too so wasn't just me. It is totally unuseable now, even in that classic mode. I wish someone would fix it.

There was a patch to Pinco's UI about 2 weeks ago that was supposed to have fixed the lag problem. Have you used UI Patcher lately to update Pinco's?

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

If I had to vote for them to be here even without the VvV tags I'd do it but MAN would that be gaudy. Like what's the allure to join VvV then lol. Removing the name tags would make more sense, but making them so non-VvV just makes it feel butchered.?

I shared your opinion when I first came to Siege but overtime I've come to understand other perspectives. I know its not exactly how you'd want them but its the sticking point that can turn the "nay's" to "yay's".

Someone previously had stated a trial period for one publish with "just turning it on". I think that would be a good idea. What does everyone else think?

I wasn't against that idea but almost everyone else I spoke to had a similar perspective "We had years of faction artifacts and don't need a trial period to learn that it doesn't work. "

Again the point of contention revolves around equal use with restricted access. Meaning anyone can use but only VvV players earn silver and purchase the artifacts.

To be fair I'd make this proposal for a trial period as well because there is always an unforeseen element.

-Lore

 

[FrejaSP]

When I look at the VvV artifacts, it is only the Crimson Cincture I would use. I already have my Conjurer's Trinket so I would not need A Primer on Arms Damage Removal.
I don't know, maybe they are more useful for other templates like mages.
I had not played on Prodo shards for 17 yeas or so, so don't know what suit people do build

 

[Critical Gaming]

Yea Lore it is the sticking point - agreed.

One other caveat I see to that, as an unintended consequence, would be that someone could just farm VvV points on a naked character, then claim the items and give them to their PvM char, completely risk-free

 

[FrejaSP]

I tried to find out the mods of this VvV artifacts, correct me if I'm wrong. They do not look that over powered to me but will make it easier to build a suit, special for the mages I believe.

Mace and Shield Reading Glasses
Head
Hit Lower Defense 30%
Strength Bonus 10
Dexterity Bonus 5
Physical Resist 25%
Fire Resist 10%
Cold Resist 10%
Poison Resist 10%
Energy Resist 10%
Damage Increase 10%

The Inquisitor's Resolution
Hands
Faster Cast Recovery 3
Lower Mana Cost 8%
Physical Resist 10%
Fire Resist 10%
Cold Resist 20%
Poison Resist 10%
Energy Resist 10%
Mage Armor

Ornament of the Magician
Bracelet
Faster Casting 2
Faster Cast Recovery 3
Lower Mana Cost 10%
Lower Reagent Cost 20%
Energy Resist 15%
Mana Regeneration 3

Order Shield - Museum of Vesper Replica
Shield
Spell Channeling
Luck 80
Hit Chance Increase 15%
Defense Chance Increase 15%
Physical Resist 1%
Strengt Requirement 95

Clainin's Spellbook
Spellbook Blessed ?
Mana Regeneration 3
Luck 80
Lower Reagent Cost 15%
Lower Mana Cost 10%

Folded Steel Reading Glasses
Head
Strength Bonus 8
Night Sight
Defense Chance Increase 25%
Physicl Resist 20%
Fire Resist 10%
Cold Resist 10%
Poison Resist 10%
Energi Resist 10%

Crystalline Ring
Ring
Focus +20
Magery +20
Hit Point Regeneration 5
Mana Regeneration 3
Spell Dmage Increase 20%
Faster Cast Recovery 3

Spirit Of The Totem
Head
Strength Bonus 20
Reflect Physical Damage 15%
Hit Chance Increase 15%
Physical Resist 20%
Fire Resist 10%
Cold Resist 10%
Poison Resist 10%
Energy Resist 10%

Wizard's Crystal Reading Glasses
Head
Mana Increase 10
Mana Regeneration 3
Spell Damage Increase 15%
Physical Resist: 10%
Fire Resist: 10%
Cold Resist: 10%
Poison Resist: 10%
Energy Resist: 10%

A Primer on Arms Damage Removal
Talisman
Strength Bonus 1
Hit Point Regeneration 2
Damage Increase 20%
Hit Chance Increase 10%

Tome Of Lost Knowledge
Book Blessed?
+15 Magery
Intelligence Bonus 8
Spell Damage Increase 15%
Lower Mana Cost 15%
Mana Regeneration 3

Hunter's Headdress
Head
+20 Archery
Dexterity Bonus 8
Night Sight
Hit Chance Increase 15%
Physical Resist 10%
Fire Resist 10%
Cold Resist 15%
Poison Resist 10%
Energy Resist 10%

Heart Of The Lion
Chest
Luck 95
Defense Chance Increase 15%
Physical Resist 20%
Fire Resist 15%
Cold Resist 15%
Poison Resist 15%
Energy Resist 15%
Mage Armor
Lower Requirements 100%

Crimson Cincture
Belt
Dexterity Bonus 10
Hit Point Increase 10
Hit Point Regeneration 2
Strength Requirement 10

Ring of The Vile
Ring
Dexterity Bobus 8
Stanima Regeneration 6
Hit Chance Increase 25%
Poison Resist 20%

Fey Leggings
Legs
Elves Only
Hit Point Increase 6
Defense Chance Increase 20%
Physical Resist 15%
Fire Resist 11%
Cold Resist 10%
Poison Resist 4%
Energy Resist 22%
Mage Armor

Rune Beetle Carapace
Chest
Mana Increase 10
Mana Regeneration 3
Lower Mana Cost 15%
Physical Resist 8%
Fire Resist 6%
Cold Resist 17%
Poison Resist 6%
Energy Resist 17%
Mage Armor

Kasa Of The Raj-In
Head
Spell Damage Increase 12%
Physical Resist 12%
Fire Resist 17%
Cold Resist 21%
Poison Resist 17%
Energy Resist 17%
Defense Chance Increase 10%

 

[Critical Gaming]

Actually this would apply for the owner tag too. I could remove the entire risk factor by farming on a new character then give all the gear to my main.

That would be really, really lame. The whole point is to have a conquest battle and be rewarded for valor.

 

[Critical Gaming]

I wonder if the devs thought of that and that's why they chose to design it this way

 

[FrejaSP]

The owner tag made it's a pain last as we a lot of sell back trouble.
I can see a problem with useable for all and no owner tag, some will stock pile the item and some will lose theirs all the time.

Maybe keep owner tag but make them cursed and make it possible to unraw them (don't know it is that)

 

[kelmo]

Let's leave Prodo stuff on Prodo shards, OK?

 

[FrejaSP]

No

 

[Freelsy]

The owner tag made it's a pain last as we a lot of sell back trouble.
I can see a problem with useable for all and no owner tag, some will stock pile the item and some will lose theirs all the time.

Maybe keep owner tag but make them cursed and make it possible to unraw them (don't know it is that)

Was there really a problem with buy backs? It was more like problem players. The most trouble I remember was Diablo and whatever guild he was in. He would cry and pancake and cause trouble then we would be in a period of no buy backs for him, so he's stop selling our gear.

I never had problem selling back gear. Hell, it was super profitable from my stand point. After every battle as everyone was waiting counts, you'd hop to your vendor and sell sell sell.

The buy back issues are blown out of proportion and folks have forgotten what it was actually like. Your brains are filling in the missing holes with false data.

 

[FrejaSP]

Yes, I was not in faction at that time, so I only saw it on the side line. My only issue with old Factions items was they was overpowered vs the gear non faction had at that time, but that issue is gone as we do have way more powerfull non VvV gear now.

 

[Critical Gaming]

The buybacks were freaking awesome.

Every kill got me super excited because I knew I would get rich!

 

[Critical Gaming]

And the buybacks were so expensive because silver prices were so hiked.

This was actually a really fun time for PvP on Siege. SO MUCH RISK vs SO MUCH REWARD

 

[TheDrAJ]

Buy backs are just high priced insurance.

 

[FrejaSP]

Buy backs are just high priced insurance.

Yes but with Item Insurance you can't be nice to the one you kill and not claim the item insurance.
Friends can still fight without demand buy back, where enemies or disrespected players may have to pay more.

 

[Critical Gaming]

Non loot VvV Sundays is a free form of insurance and certain players won't play unless that's the case lol so not sure what you're getting at.

 

[kelmo]

Non loot Sundays is a wonderful way to get folks to try some new things and PvP in a learning sort of environment.

 

[Baby Doll]

Non loot VvV Sundays is a free form of insurance and certain players won't play unless that's the case lol so not sure what you're getting at.

Non loot Sundays is a wonderful way to get folks to try some new things and PvP in a learning sort of environment.

Lets put both to the test? The next 2 Sundays play it Kelmo's way Non loot day and let everyone wear what they want, hopefully really nice stuff. Then following 2 Sundays wear those exact same suits (or damn near same or better) and play it Critical Gaming's way. Then start a poll and ask the people who played on those Sundays, which days were the funnest?





*look what I can do*

 

[MissEcho]

There was a patch to Pinco's UI about 2 weeks ago that was supposed to have fixed the lag problem. Have you used UI Patcher lately to update Pinco's?

I just made sure that I used the UIPatcher and it hasn't made any difference. I wonder if I can 'remove' Pinco's and reinstall it to see if that makes a dif, only problem is I am not sure how to remove it lol. Pm me if you know how.

 

[Thegirlyouloved2hate]

Well hot damn. I think the forum pvp is quite tame compared to the way it used to be.

Has the moderator team grown soft? Or Is it the new player base that's soft?

100% agree Iol I would say toughen up, but this is st8t SJW **** here..lol a far cry from 99-2003.

 

[kelmo]

*smiles*

 

[IanJames]

So, yeah I don't play a lot anymore because life is busy, but I do keep up with folks and what's happening.

10-12 years ago we had a problem with factions folks because they would take their faction advantages such as monster ignore and other things and use them for non faction activities.

For example, we would work a spawn up to the boss, maybe 10-20 minutes of work and the faction guild would waltz in with their monster ignore, kill our pets and steal the boss. It was annoying and at the time, the faction arties were easy for experienced Pvpers to get and not so easy for someone new to pvp. If we did kill the factioners, we couldn't use their stuff, and if we had folks who were in factions, we couldn't res them.

The faction stuff was fine for the people who played factions, but we regularly encountered people who got faction suits and then just ran around on killing sprees of people who weren't playing factions.

When VvV came out we were afraid of a repeat of that. We aren't afraid of the risk of playing on siege but there are definitely a handful of people who just make it not fun at all. Krystal and Wyrm were great pkers but they weren't jerks.

I think Lore's idea has some merit, and no one is against having an open discussion. Well, maybe there are a couple, but it's a different time now on the shard, and the conversation should continue


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[Lynk]

So since both of these two have admitted, here on the forums, to being a cheater ingame, label them as cheaters, here on the forum should be allowed IMO. Afterall, in the end, we´re just kind of quoting them but with less words...

Capt Norrington, unless you want to continue your biased behavior, when people demonstrate themselves as being disgusting pigs, then i can call them disgusting pigs without consequence too right?

 

[Razz]

Lynk this thread has gotten to a point that no other thread has gotten to that I have seen. It has gone from the usual insults to all sides having a discussion without the usual trash that goes along with it. That hasn't happened in a long time. How about allowing that to continue. If you have any issues send a PM or start a new thread please. I'm not trying to single you out. I know you were only defending yourself.

 

[Lynk]

Razz, my post was on topic, as i replied to someone directly. Perhaps if you have an issue with my post you can send me a PM instead of taking the conversation off topic. Much appreciated.

 

[Chump Thumper]

Capt Norrington, unless you want to continue your biased behavior, when people demonstrate themselves as being disgusting pigs, then i can call them disgusting pigs without consequence too right?

You may have not read it, But Capt Norrington already addressed this partially. in saying that they will talk about it and see if they want to change the rules. in a previous post, he admitted this is a valid point and said it would be looked into.

 

[Uvtha]

VvV items would encourage other small pvp groups to make characters on Siege in all honesty. Not sure the core community actually wants that though :/


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I think the community is fine with the idea, so long as they are not character locked, which honestly should not be an issue.

 

[Uvtha]

One other caveat I see to that, as an unintended consequence, would be that someone could just farm VvV points on a naked character, then claim the items and give them to their PvM char, completely risk-free

So you kill them and get a nice loot haul. Who cares? I think everyone could use easier access to good items frankly, and while this wouldn't be ideal, it certainly wouldn't be a big thing.

 

[Uvtha]

Actually this would apply for the owner tag too. I could remove the entire risk factor by farming on a new character then give all the gear to my main.

That would be really, really lame. The whole point is to have a conquest battle and be rewarded for valor.

But why would you? If you want to pvp you would be in it pvping. Like you have said before, the VvV items aren't even good, they are just helpful in making a competitive suit.

That said I have always been a proponent of the VvV system actually mattering in a tangible way, ala faction town control, or whatever. So you have something a little less arbitrary to fight over than a pedistal.

 

[FrejaSP]

I believe we all should try help the shard grow. It will never be easy or cheap to be a young PvP'er on Siege or even a young PvM'er.
I too like the Sundays battles, when used for players to test their skills and gear and to train some team work.
I do believe most on Siege would be more willing to respect this 2 hours if they could find players to fight outside this 2 hours. What can we all do to make this fights outside the Sundays battles fun for all and less expensive for the ones who die a lot.

If Devs would help us fix our item problem, that be VvV items or better drop of resources and loot including artifacts it would make more being willing to risk their suit and VvV artifacts would make it cheaper to build suits.

Now if we get the VvV artifacts, what would work best for the shard? I really don't like the owner tag as that will be much like having item insurance and young players will still have hard finding the gold to buy their suits back and you can't as guild work together to make spare suits in Guildhouse.

If no owner tag and useful for all, including non VvV, young VvV'ers could trade VvV items for imbued suit pieces to help them build a suit.

I know both sides want them their way but it's about time we look at the shard as whole and help the shard grow, including PvP. To do that, we need to communicate in a respectful way and stop yelling NO without any reason why.

Lets work out deals, that will work for both sides and lets stop this civil war. Siege seem to lose a lot players right now on both sides.

 

[Baby Doll]

You know that toddler song "The wheels on the bus"? The little tykes are so happy to have learned a song. You thought it was cute for about for about 5 minutes. After the umpteenth time of hearing it you felt as if Khan from Star Trek had dropped several ear slugs into your head. You just want to scream "Make it stop" but NOOOO the stupid song just keep going.

Maybe it's just me, but this thread reminds me of that kiddy toon that turned into a sci-fi nightmare.

 

[Leprechaun]

 

[Dexterslab]

So much words and anger. All because these damn "new" items after AOS.
I want GM-Made Armor. Thats it. PVP was so funny 16 years ago.
I apologize for always posting the same

 

[Troll The T Hunter]

That's a very good point that I hadn't considered. The RoC says accusations of cheating are against the rules, but yet someone admitting that they cheat is technically also accusing themselves of cheating....

This can't be right.
"accusing" is a belief that something happened. "admitting" is confirming something you know happened. either you did something or you didn't do something unless you have a mental problem and you're not sure if you did or didn't do something. I don't think you can accuse yourself of doing something unless you have multiple personalities.

 

[Troll The T Hunter]

On the subject matter of VvV artifacts I'm not sure why VvV players even care if some pvm person had a VvV artifact. How would this effect your pvp? also you could just go farm pvm people and get their VvV artifacts for little work.

 

[Razz]

Why won't this post die already..... I blame Leprechaun for pulling it back form the depths!

Ironically his post was

 

[Drakelord]

Why won't this post die already..... I blame Leprechaun for pulling it back form the depths!

Ironically his post was

There you go Razz problem solved.

 

[Victim of Siege]