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Regarding The Constant Baiting, Trolling, and Insults In The Siege Forum

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Patron
It's called "insecurity". The need to belittle other people is in fact their own insecure view of themselves. It's pretty clear who this applies to.
Yes it do not matter if you are woman or male. It works like when you see meet a dog, if you are insecure and feel like running, the dog can smell it and it may attack. If you do not fear it, you may be able to pet it and the dog won't hurt you.
I don't know what it is, but it works trough the Internet too. Back before Trammel on Atlantic, if I saw a red, the worse thing I could do was to start running or freeze up. It was much better to face him, walk against him slowly, may be say something. I remember I had a macro "Hello Mr. Red, I had never seen you before" It worked great.
 

Critical Gaming

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
It's called "insecurity". The need to belittle other people is in fact their own insecure view of themselves. It's pretty clear who this applies to.
:lol:

Besides Kelmo (the EXTREMELY biased ex-forum mod), I got along with this community up until the VvV artifacts were taken out.

Speaking of which, I think it's time for another discussion on this.
 

TheDrAJ

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
:lol:
Besides Kelmo (the EXTREMELY biased ex-forum mod), I got along with this community up until the VvV artifacts were taken out.
....
I think your guild has proved that it would be a terrible idea to add them back - since they were never in!
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Patron
The reason we did not get the VvV artifacts was, we all remembered what Factions Artifacts did to Siege. Sadly I was one of the nay Sayers (I'm sure Crunch can tell about that :p). I was wrong. It's not the same game now, we do have Imbuing, Reforging, New Loot, that made relic cheap.
You can make a ok suit now, sure it is still expensive but you can PvP in it. Back with the Faction artifacts, a lot blue gave up trying to PvP and most did not want to join Faction, there was longer time of stat loss, no stat loss remover, you could not be in same guild as your non factions friends, not even allie them.

The game have changed a lot. If you can't PvP and dont want to try, it do not matter how good a suit you do have, you will die easy anyway. If you do like to PvP, I see no reason not to be in VvV and take advantage of the VvV artifacts.

I believe the VvV'ers still will want some imbued pieces and if we get more VvV'ers we will get more PvP action and i don't really believe the VvV PK's will care to search for PvM'ers to kill and if they do, they may go easier on them.

I believe we all should look at pros and cons again and maybe we can agree about helping the shard.

Give the VvV'ers their artifacts and give the PvM'ers and crafters Fel bonus including 1000+ luck on all facets, then I believe we can bring life back to Siege, not only more PvP'ers but maybe also bring back RPPvP.

Don't forget, the Anti PK's do also get VvV items to help defend their alliance.
 

Critical Gaming

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Let's look at this prime example.

There was a thread a few weeks ago where a player was in need of a set of suits. The thread went on and on and the jist of it was that it was too resource intensive / costly for our crafters to want to actually do this.

Now, let's look at one of the most BASIC mysticism suits that can be built with VvV artifacts.

Crystalline Ring (VvV)
Ornament of the Magician (VvV)
Crimson Cincture (VvV)
Folded Steel Reading Glasses (VvV)
Mage Weapon -20, SCNP, 15 DCI (Siege Blessed/Imbued)

You now have 2/6 casting, 20 SDI, 7 HPR, 6 MR, 40 DCI, 10LMC, 10 HPI.

A crafter can sell these items to finish the suit:

Gorget, Tunic, Sleeves, Gloves, Legs - totalling in 80 LRC, 30 LMC, 15 HPI, the rest in mana increase/MR/HPR. Then equip a 5DCI mana phasing orb and you have a full suit!

That would be a really easy suit for a crafter to mass produce and sell, however there is no core building blocks to base the suit off, so its REALLY expensive.

Now my question is... Why are you all so against them?!
 
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Troll The T Hunter

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
you're trying to convince the wrong people, go convince the developers.

As I've said before let anyone be able to equip the VvV items and i'm fine with them.

Freja what are you quoting me for and then rambling on about people running from reds, my post was about verbally belittling people to make themselves feel better.
 

Wolfman

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
you're trying to convince the wrong people, go convince the developers.

As I've said before let anyone be able to equip the VvV items and i'm fine with them.

Freja what are you quoting me for and then rambling on about people running from reds, my post was about verbally belittling people to make themselves feel better.
And the developpers stated that they will be implemented either as they are on prodo or not at all.
I have also stated that I would be OK with an everyone usable version and a little watered down, so the "real" arties are at least a little better.

But if you implement them like on prodo you suddenly have the ppl who can use the gear (VVV participants), and the ones who cannot use them (non VVV participants).
The later group would have to equip the expensive "real" arties to be competitive against the vvv-people who could use the real stuff to do anything they wanted in them (also PvM things, raids...)
So VVV players no to low risk non VVV players highest risk imaginable....
Forcing someone to play a certain style is just wrong.
End of my contribution to this discussion.
 

Eärendil

Legendary Mall Santa
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Excellent argument. So easy to be convincing with some basic logic. But logic is not the major guideline in the current discourse. Its rather dominance, greed and selfishness...
 

kelmo

Old and in the way
Professional
Alumni
Supporter
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Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Dread Lord
Siege is doing fine without vending machine artifacts. If easy is what you want there are several available options for you. I hear there are options out there on "player" run that give you exactly what you want.

This is our only option.
 

Critical Gaming

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The later group would have to equip the expensive "real" arties to be competitive against the vvv-people who could use the real stuff
That's not true. All the mods are imbuable or achieved by other means. My suit, for example, is better. Pieces I've looted off GIL are better.

...its just that it is much more difficult for those without crafters to achieve them, as has been demonstrated on this forum.

Forcing someone to play a certain style is just wrong.
That's how everyone else feels when they realize there are no VvV arties, when they were originally part of the system.
 

Critical Gaming

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Excellent argument. So easy to be convincing with some basic logic. But logic is not the major guideline in the current discourse. Its rather dominance, greed and selfishness...
I don't know why you say this.

Greed and selfishness do not apply whatsoever here, and my post was a glorious display of logic.
 

Critical Gaming

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Siege is doing fine without vending machine artifacts. If easy is what you want there are several available options for you. I hear there are options out there on "player" run that give you exactly what you want.

This is our only option.

One of your guild members just said the other day that the population of Siege is approaching zero.

You telling people to leave is not conducive to shard growth.

Siege is not doing just fine.
 

Critical Gaming

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
you're trying to convince the wrong people, go convince the developers.

As I've said before let anyone be able to equip the VvV items and i'm fine with them.

Freja what are you quoting me for and then rambling on about people running from reds, my post was about verbally belittling people to make themselves feel better.
This is the group I need to convince, because after repeated attempts at getting this passed, they are the road block.
 
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cazador

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Trying to play both the roles of staff and pvper in this response might get a little tricky for me, but here it goes.

90% of my game play for the past 7 years has been pvp related. I have met several people, and been in numerous guilds across many servers. Over the course of my pvp career, I have had my fair share of griefing done towards me either on the forums, in game, and in two cases in real life. Being a female doesn't help matters.... not that gender really has to do with anything game related, however women do take a great deal of extreme cyber bullying for no other reason than being female. I won't break down the psychology of it, but it really is a thing. After everything I have been called, heard, and seen, I can honestly say that I do not get bothered by anything anyone behind a computer throws at me. But at the same time, it wouldn't be fair of me to assume that just because I have an immunity towards the shenanigans then everyone else should as well. People are unique, personalities are unique, and everything effects everyone differently. It would be wrong for me to assume otherwise or mock them for being offended.

My love for PvP is undisputed, to spite the harassment that comes with my little hobby. But I will say this.... anytime I have been in a guild where victories leads to insults smeared all over general chat, and even followed to stratics, the PvP activity on the server dies. People lose ambition to try. The pvp is no longer fun to them. Why should they go and try something new just to be laughed out of fel, and called worthless? They won't do it again, and we now have one less future pvper. So while I can personally appreciate and understand a little prodding and bragging, I have also seen what it can do to the community. In a perfect world I think if everyone came, fought, and kept their mouths shut there would be more fights. There is no sense in demoralizing people.

So that makes it easier for me to moderate things on Stratics that are obviously not constructive and only serving to demoralize people. So no, the mods haven't grown soft or more strict. We are players also and we all have a love for the game. Thats why we do what we can to protect everyone involved, even the 2 people whos skin might be too thin. That's why we have the rules and try to be neutral. Maybe in the end it won't make a huge difference to the majority, but to a few it means everything.
You do know the majority read..female! And automatically are already thinking of clever ways to ask for nudes...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Troll The T Hunter

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
This is the group I need to convince, because after repeated attempts at getting this passed, they are the road block.
The problem is as Wolfman pointed out VvV people can go and kill non VvV people with these items. The difference between siege and other shards is if the people who didn't want to fight people in VvV on normal shards they can just hang out in Trammel.

The only solution I would be happy with is they are usable by anyone. That is not going to happen, broadsword would have to put extra time in to customize the code to siege, ain't going to happen.

If you want more pvp why don't you challenge one of the better pvp guilds to come to siege?
 

Giggles

Wielder of Ebil Cookies
Moderator
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Social Media Liaison
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
I guess my female statement has gotten a lot of attention so I should clarify.
I don't mean we are all treated poorly simply for having boobs... its the harassment that comes with being a female in the online world that is specific to women only.. for example...
Nude photo requests..
Why are you online? you should be in a kitchen.
My guilds personal favorite since they love me so much... " Giggles hush and go make a sandwich"
Several other sexual comments that I probably shouldn't spell out since I work here =)
Female specific derogatory statements and phrases.

I don't use being a female as a crutch, and personally I find humor in some of the statements, but not all women do. Some women love the attention and the gifts and the flirting, not me personally. I have my sexy husband and two kids with one on the way. So that stuff just goes in one ear and out the other.

Anyways, I hope I have made that little tid bit more clear. Some women really hate it so yes there is female specific online bullying that happens for no other reason other than being female, especially in the pvp world of fragile egos =)
 

Razz

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Giggles I can totally relate. Men also have the same issue.

I'm constantly bombarded with insults like "get some sand in your _____?", "Quit being such a _____", "grow a pair", "stop being such a whiny ____" and "you're really bad at this aren't you?".

That's just from my wife before I even login to UO.......
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Patron
Anyways, I hope I have made that little tid bit more clear. Some women really hate it so yes there is female specific online bullying that happens for no other reason other than being female, especially in the pvp world of fragile egos =)
I do understand that and I believe it is worse in some cultures than in others, there are a lot places females still are treated very bad, i know that. Yes some had tried it against me too, but they do not get far as I will cut them off before they get started.
My advice to the women, who are victims to this, raise your head, believe in your self and don't let them make you feel less than them. I'm lucky, I'm grow up in Denmark where a woman can do anything a man can do and get same respect. I am sad to see, that that is not the case in all cultures.
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Patron
Giggles I can totally relate. Men also have the same issue.

I'm constantly bombarded with insults like "get some sand in your _____?", "Quit being such a _____", "grow a pair", "stop being such a whiny ____" and "you're really bad at this aren't you?".

That's just from my wife before I even login to UO.......
LOL, yes it is not only women who get slapped town to where they believe they are worth nothing, it do happen for some men too and some women can sure be a <Inset the female B word here>
 

Tanivar

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Someone translate this for me, I don't understand it
Crop top pics are outfits that show the bare tummy. 'Something to be said for' means it tends to draw comments, in my case, approving ones. :)
 

Kheloth

Visitor
Stratics Veteran
The problem is as Wolfman pointed out VvV people can go and kill non VvV people with these items. The difference between siege and other shards is if the people who didn't want to fight people in VvV on normal shards they can just hang out in Trammel.

The only solution I would be happy with is they are usable by anyone. That is not going to happen, broadsword would have to put extra time in to customize the code to siege, ain't going to happen.
Absolutely agreed!
For more PvP to happen: @Devs: Install anti-cheat-software/ Make the EC obligatory since I am not aware of cheat software on that.
 

Max Blackoak

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Absolutely agreed!
For more PvP to happen: @Devs: Install anti-cheat-software/ Make the EC obligatory since I am not aware of cheat software on that.
anti-cheat software - yes please, but please do not force me to use the EC...despite everybody else saying it's faster I get horrible lag with that client...
I vaguely remember back in the day the devs contemplated using punkbuster but unfortunately that never happened...
 

Razz

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
EC with Pinco's is fantastic. I also had serious lag issues along with a lot of other bugs until I added Pinco's add-on. All bugsl went away and everything is sunshine and rainbows.
 

Razz

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
They mandate the EC they'll lose a lot of players. I'd be gone the day the CC was. The EC is a lousy UI in spite of all the ravings of it's fan club here.
I tried EC before back in 2012-ish. Couldn't adjust to the look. I went away for a couple of years, came back and started using EC right away. Now when I see CC it's looks odd, cartoonish and clunky. Oh and thank god for grid containers in EC. I still have to use CC when I'm building houses though. EC transparency is terrible terrible terrible.
 

Critical Gaming

Lore Master
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Stratics Legend
The problem is as Wolfman pointed out VvV people can go and kill non VvV people with these items. The difference between siege and other shards is if the people who didn't want to fight people in VvV on normal shards they can just hang out in Trammel.

The only solution I would be happy with is they are usable by anyone. That is not going to happen, broadsword would have to put extra time in to customize the code to siege, ain't going to happen.

If you want more pvp why don't you challenge one of the better pvp guilds to come to siege?
I missed this post. Sorry! And by the way it's hard to tell via text, but my demeanor is not aggressive, insulting, etc.. I just don't understand this.

How comes killing people who don't have VvV items is a problem? I mean.. you guys never got Supernova potions taken out, or warhorses. Those are actually unattainable "features" for non-VvVers. It's not like this gear isn't replaceable by imbuing. I've done it for my entire guild but that took a lot of gold and time. Ask Igg A Pie. I probably spent the equiv of 50mil Siege on stuff to equip my guild, in total. It shouldn't have to be that way.

I don't understand the usable by everyone thing. Horses and Supernovas are on Siege currently and don't follow that model. As a VvVer you get the benefit of getting core building block pieces for a suit so it's easier to equip, since PvP is conducive to looting. It just makes sense.

As for the last part. We've tried. They think it's too hard to equip so they won't bother wasting their time. I've even suggested that GIL sponsor a PvP guild to get them started.
 

Nonel

Sage
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I'd support VvV arties being worn by anyone for the same reason I would support them existing at all, now. I think the arties were a terrible addition during factions. Way too powerful. But now? They are good for slapping a suit together quick. A lot of them are worthless compared to modern loot.

At this point in this dying game, anything that gets people up and playing quicker is a positive.
 

Razz

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I dont like Mr Pinco's ui, to fancy for me, but i love EC!
Sarg there is a setting in Pinco's that will let you change the GUI to the default look and still have all the features of pinco's. I dont like all the frilly stuff either.
 

Forsaken

Journeyman
The problem is as Wolfman pointed out VvV people can go and kill non VvV people with these items. The difference between siege and other shards is if the people who didn't want to fight people in VvV on normal shards they can just hang out in Trammel.

The only solution I would be happy with is they are usable by anyone. That is not going to happen, broadsword would have to put extra time in to customize the code to siege, ain't going to happen.

If you want more pvp why don't you challenge one of the better pvp guilds to come to siege?
Your whole sense of logic is flawed. The fact that it is 5+ years later and we're still having the same argument over FACTION/VvV artifacts is ridiculous.

1) VvV does not make you win--Being competent does.
2) Everyone on this server could wear VvV based suits and I would still be able to kill them--The ONLY people that could kill me in a NON-VvV based suit on this server would be people in HI5, Virem, Arnold, etc. (people of this caliber)
3) Truth is competition on this server has been weak for several years now--Lack of VvV items only cripples the weak and keeps the competent players strong. Allowing VvV items would HELP balance and level out the weak players that wish to PvP with a means of cheap items to build suits around and just MAYBE, learn to work as a guild/group and successfully kill people. Did I mention CHEAP? So while these said weak, less competent folks are learning and losing their suits, they can easily afford to make new ones and even stock up on said VvV items.

The people who say, you can't force us to play a certain play style. We're not. You keep hosting your tea parties, doing your dungeon crawls, stealthing around this ghost shard, or any other trammie thing it is you do.

I'm pretty confident that majority of the anti-VvV players on this server do not PvP. Else, where is the PvP? Half of us have to throw Tracking and Detect Hidden on for your so-called, PvP. GTFO
 

Razz

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I dont like Mr Pinco's ui, to fancy for me, but i love EC!
Oh yeah Pinco's also has added the patch that allows you to use Cartographer. You can use Cart on the reg EC but you need the patch, which is a pain to install if you can find it anymore. Hollah at me in game if you want help with this.
 

Critical Gaming

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Yea it's been stated that it's either on or off already, so it's pointless to discuss it lol. Please consider that before responding. It isn't an option.
 

Tjalle

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
Plus the constant other things like subtle accusations of using illegal 3rd party programs
I have a serious question, Captn.

If a poster admits to cheating in a post it´s no longer an accusation, now is it?


Here´s two recent examples of players who belong to the same guild:

What do you mean? I'm excellent at posting screenshots. %s over characters names give me a ****ing huge edge bro. That is why you are so bad at PvP, because I see %s over people's heads.
A reference to his little mistake when posting screenshots from an event.


I got a one day ban for training magery on Siege ****** macro and I was doing it in my house
Both quotes, made by the guildmaster himself, are from the classic cry thread on UHall.
Macroing in your house?


So since both of these two have admitted, here on the forums, to being a cheater ingame, label them as cheaters, here on the forum should be allowed IMO. Afterall, in the end, we´re just kind of quoting them but with less words...
 

MissEcho

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Sarg there is a setting in Pinco's that will let you change the GUI to the default look and still have all the features of pinco's. I dont like all the frilly stuff either.
Where is this setting? I had to stop using Pinco's as a few patches ago it just started to lag the hell out of me. I had used Pinco's since day one, then found it unusable. Now I just switch to it to do T'Maps then have to go back to default. I would much rather be running with Pinco's but it is like trying to move in Glag Glue.
 

Razz

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Where is this setting? I had to stop using Pinco's as a few patches ago it just started to lag the hell out of me. I had used Pinco's since day one, then found it unusable. Now I just switch to it to do T'Maps then have to go back to default. I would much rather be running with Pinco's but it is like trying to move in Glag Glue.
It's in a really odd spot. Took me a while to find it. User settings > Healthbar tab > Status window Style > Classic

BOOM! that's it.
 

MissEcho

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
It's in a really odd spot. Took me a while to find it. User settings > Healthbar tab > Status window Style > Classic

BOOM! that's it.
Arrghhhhhhhhh! Thanks for that but sadly I was already running classic so I still can't use it. I don't know what happened to it but at some point pincos just totally lagged to hell on me a couple of publishes ago, was a post on Uhall about it too so wasn't just me. It is totally unuseable now, even in that classic mode. I wish someone would fix it.
 
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