pre-tame vs post-tame stat for greater dragon

[NatalieVain]

*EDIT*

Never mind. found info on stratics. So i have to find one with pre-tame hp of 1800 if i want it with 900 hp.

 

[Bob_the_fart_guy]

I thought greater dragons had a max hit points of 1,000 after taming?

 

[pgib]

You're right. It looks like a trick with curse or something - fixed by a patch - could lead to a 1000+ hp dragon which is good for collectors but not really relevant for fights cause in a fighting greater dragon you look for phyiscal-fire-energy resistances (85 90 75) and wrestling (120+).

 

[Blue Fly]

The higher the hit points on a GD the stronger the fire breath is, so hp does make a little difference. Also to get a skill at 120 it needs to be 133.3 pre-tame.

 

[pgib]

The fireball is not relevant during pvm fights. The point of the greater dragon is to withstand damage in the long run under constant vet-healing.

That means that you keep it at maximum health (so the total hp doesn't really matter, a 500 is as good as a 900) while it confronts its foe.

Wrestling and resistances counts because they reduce the frequence and amount of damage taken: with a greater dragon you can kill anything that does less than 70 hp per second of damage on average IF you can keep on healing.

All other properties count just toward the time taken to defeat the mob but if you consider that a greater dragon target has tens of thousands of hp the scale of the reduction in time is negligible (like one minute less in a fight that takes one hour).

All this in a "solo" situation. If you have more than six gd involved in the same fight than the best would be a high hp-wrestling-tactics-strength gd but i've never seen more than three gd at once in the shard where i play (Europa) and they are usually all 4.0+ soon-to-be-ghost creatures because of cheap resistances and poor vetting.

 

[Sackobud]

Unless they changed it recently the higher the HP of the dragon the more damage the fireball does. So yes having a 900 HP dragon is better then 500

 

[pgib]

The fireball strength still depends on the hp but it is not the main source of damage (unless you fight something that has very low fire resist) because it triggers once in 13 seconds (average): in the same time you get 10 "bites" and one bleed.

The same goes for magery: the gd runs out of mana in the first 5 minutes, then the offensive casting rate drops to nihil because it has to keep up curing himself and when it doesn't then he casts from the range of its spells (so it casts both offensive and non offensive spells)

One thing that i've never checked is how much damage it does with just the spells in those 5 minutes. I'd say not very much because when i do paragon greater dragons (that has roughly 7k hit points and takes 15-20 minutes to kill) when my gd is out of mana the mob is still in pretty good health.

Btw there is no need to say that a gd with full resists and 900 hp is better than a gd with full resists and 500 hp but normally you don't have both (if you take a look around you will notice a lot of 900+ hp greater dragons with very bad resistance sets).

 

[Sackobud]

I never said anything about resists of the dragon. You said that Hp of dragon doesn't matter, I disagree.

Did some testing with two of my dragons one had 107 more Hp then the other, it did 15 dmg more avg with fireball.

So if it takes you 20 mins to kill a para gd 20 min x 60 sec = 1200 sec/13 sec per fireball = 92 x 15 = 1384 dmg out of 7k health of a para gd, seems to me thats relevant.

That is also only a 107 Hp difference. Try that with a 400 Hp difference and im sure you will notice a big difference.

My dragon is also doing 4-5 "bites" not 10 in between fireballs

 

[pgib]

Our numbers don't match. I did a test with a 954 hp and with a 751 hp against a gd (non paragon, but resists don't change) with 89 fire resist.

The 954 throws a fireball that deals 32 hp of damage while the 751 throws a 22 one.

So i have a 203 difference in hp and 10 in fireball.

The vagaries of rng maybe.

Nonetheless i can confirm that the gd does 10... well they look more like headbutts than bites... for each fireball.

Which leads to the irrelevance of the firebreath.

 

[Sackobud]

My top dragon has 131 sta unbuffed. I find it hard to believe that another dragon has that much higher, that he attacks "bite" 2x faster then mine.

So I have no clue how yours "bites" so much faster. Basically your saying yours "bites" every 1.3 secs?

Another thing is that since fireball is based on current health of the dragon, one with 900hp will still do more damage at 75% health (675hp) then a dragon at 500hp and full health

As for damage I tested it on a para cu. Only thing I could find that I could test on multiple times so the fire resist is lower then a GD.

Ill test it on a GD tonight.

If your on Atl I would love to do some testing with ya and see

 

[pgib]

All pets have the same swing speed which is 1.3 hit per second (when they reach 120+ dexterity). So a gd bites as fast as a trained cow.

10 is the amount of blows i count on average between two fireballs and i use that amount to measure the relative low importance of fireballs during the fight.

Note that 10 is not the number of hits, just the number of attempted bites (sometimes it misses, sometimes it lands).

 

[Sackobud]

Maybe I have a crap connection then, cause Im only seeing 4-5 attempted "bites"

happen to play on ATL?

 

[pgib]

Europa.

But four is really too slow (1 blow in 3 seconds?) or your gd throws fireballs like a flamethrower. I'm going to check again, this time on swoop.

 

[pgib]

Against swoop i've got 43 bites in a minute, checked with an online stopwatch. I also controlled the time between two successfull hits in a row and it is right (actually from 1.4 to 1.6 but i'm not that fast with the mouse).

I did a second test against an ortanord (the rehued wisp in ter mur that takes no damage and has very low skills, so the gd doesn't miss a hit) counting the hit effect sound and it gives me 40+ constantly.

I checked the time for 5 bytes in a row and it gives me 6 seconds and something, constantly.

The greater dragon has a speed of 1.3 swings per second.