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PC Gamer article

Stinky Pete

Babbling Loonie
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Not really much that we didn't already know here, but it is another UO-centric article. Again, this one isn't about NL but yet another warning from past developers just how toxic online worlds can be.

Article

I feel like I'm reading an article like this every few months. Yet, time after time we watch MMO titles make all the same mistakes or they attempt to avoid all of the mistakes and make something terrible instead. I think we are looking into the death of the MMO genre, at least large AAA titles. I reckon MMOs cost too much to be sustainable. Even if they're making money, if a producer is going to continue to develop content for a game, they're going to want to see an increase in revenue and I don't think that happens. Best to stick to games where you make them, release them, patch them for a few months, and move on to a new title.
 

Lore

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
I think you could grow a "luxury" MMO. An MMO where you have a staff that actually runs things professionally. Treats players as paying customers and guests.

They'll come. Facebook tried Meta which was going to be close. Now they're spinning it in more productive ways because it failed, but it'll still come. These things don't land the first time, but people usually wise up. Or wise down, depending on perspective.
 

Gidge

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
"Time to penis is one minute 23 seconds standard in the game," said Vogel.
I must getting more naive as time goes by. I didn't even know this was a thing in UO!
*reads more*
 

Lord Frodo

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
"Time to penis is one minute 23 seconds standard in the game," said Vogel.
I must getting more naive as time goes by. I didn't even know this was a thing in UO!
*reads more*
An abbreviation for Time To Penis. Used by game developers and graphics designers as a way to describe how long it will be before the players or users find a way to represent penises in the game. These could either be chat or text descriptions, static images, or even animated penises
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
"Time to penis is one minute 23 seconds standard in the game," said Vogel.
I must getting more naive as time goes by. I didn't even know this was a thing in UO!
*reads more*
NOOB.

Nice article. Thanks
 

Stinky Pete

Babbling Loonie
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
I think you could grow a "luxury" MMO. An MMO where you have a staff that actually runs things professionally. Treats players as paying customers and guests.
I don't know, I personally find that players who refer to themselves as "paying customers" are the whiniest, most needy, and most anti-community players. I feel like games would be better off without them. I would rather have a team with a good vision, clear and well communicated goals, and a demonstrable ability to deliver. Listening to "paying customers" only serves to move a product further away from a development team's vision which almost never makes anything better.

I hate to say it, but players suck. They have no idea what they want and no real investment into the product. A player can demand all kinds of stupid things, then when they turn out to not be everything they had imagined, a player can just stop playing... no big deal. You might say that paying a subscription entities players opinions to be considered, I disagree. The product being sold is entertainment, if you want your opinions heard, buy stock.
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
An abbreviation for Time To Penis. Used by game developers and graphics designers as a way to describe how long it will be before the players or users find a way to represent penises in the game. These could either be chat or text descriptions, static images, or even animated penises
I remember playing a game that is dead now sadly called Landmark... which had really excellent graphics... beautiful and you could customize your plot however you liked etc... however, you are correct... It was seriously not long before the obligatory penis was on full display... in all its glory. I'm sure that person was banned but yeah we all saw it.
 

Lore

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
I don't know, I personally find that players who refer to themselves as "paying customers" are the whiniest, most needy, and most anti-community players. I feel like games would be better off without them. I would rather have a team with a good vision, clear and well communicated goals, and a demonstrable ability to deliver. Listening to "paying customers" only serves to move a product further away from a development team's vision which almost never makes anything better.

I hate to say it, but players suck. They have no idea what they want and no real investment into the product. A player can demand all kinds of stupid things, then when they turn out to not be everything they had imagined, a player can just stop playing... no big deal. You might say that paying a subscription entities players opinions to be considered, I disagree. The product being sold is entertainment, if you want your opinions heard, buy stock.
I agree that players suck, but having a game where you actually have staff and real life people to interact with and make the experience more real is something I think many people would want. An MMO where the world is about the size of UO for premium people to have a premium experience. I think that'd sell.
 

Stinky Pete

Babbling Loonie
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
I agree that players suck, but having a game where you actually have staff and real life people to interact with and make the experience more real is something I think many people would want. An MMO where the world is about the size of UO for premium people to have a premium experience. I think that'd sell.
You can pay me to play with you... I guess. I don't know why you would expect devs to hire people to interact with you. I suppose I'd start at like $10 an hour depending on how completely unsufferable you are. And to think I was "interacting" with all those people for free.
 

Lore

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
You can pay me to play with you... I guess. I don't know why you would expect devs to hire people to interact with you. I suppose I'd start at like $10 an hour depending on how completely unsufferable you are. And to think I was "interacting" with all those people for free.
Yelp Review: Endlessly sarcastic and robbed me.

Sarcasm aside, the service industry does exist. It's not as far fetched as you'd think. I mean, a lot of you buy into whatever terrible MMO Richard Garriott pumps out for money and pay for stuff I consider dumber than having a full service MMO.
 

Lore

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
In FFXIV, people pay for DJs and home decorators. And even more adult content.
 

Maith Ceol

Journeyman
Governor
Stratics Veteran
I play a multiplayer shooter game on private servers. You don't really own anything other than your equipment, which you can customize and trade etc. Anyhow, there was a HUGE discussion about a year or less ago about making the servers more "friendly" and less toxic because people were complaining on Reddit about the smacktalking. The server admins were talking about instituting bans on ... well a lot of stuff but mostly it was about language. The admins felt like they were missing out on revenue because people on Reddit said they weren't going to come play on these servers because of the toxicity.

You can play on their servers for free but if you pay a small amount, you get some really fun perks. You get a guaranteed slot on a full server but other than that, you don't get anything more substantial. Most of the egregious talking and demands were done by people who weren't paying.

The main reason that most people play on these servers is their incredibly strict no cheating policy. Steam already has an anti-cheat code and the server has a private anti-cheat thing too. If you get caught cheating, you get banned. They never unban you, unless you can absolutely prove it was a mistake. I've been playing on them for a decade and I can count on one hand the amount of people who have been unbanned. They also consistently update their hardware and software, they are as transparent as they can be and they communicate with their playerbase.

They ban for "hate" speech. They ban for all the other cheating stuff too but that one ... they give you three chances to not be a racist/homophobic/xenophobic/insertyourphobichere jerk. It's usually like a day, then a week then a month then you're permabanned. The "toxicity" people were talking about had nothing to do with that ... it was stuff like being called a bad player or some players telling others to play a different class or move their weapons or whatever.

Online gaming IS harsh. I found the whole conversation about banning people because they called someone a name ridiculous. I think, in the end, the admins decided to take a wait and see approach because a lot of their contributors said they weren't going to pay or play if this went through because there were some other issues that needed to be addressed first. Most of THOSE issues involved actual gameplay issues (like "friendlying" ... where you hang out with players from the other team and just mess around. You take up slots but don't actually work towards the goals of the games). That type of thing was from mostly non-contributing players.

A lot of the comments were that people needed to suck it up and stop getting butt hurt over a game. A GAME.

Any time you get a bunch of people together, with some level of anonymity, someone will act out. You just can't regulate human behavior. What you can do is mitigate how it effects other players if you feel like it's negatively affecting your bottom line. Because while it's a game to us ... it's a business for them and that should be their focus. How can we continue to grow our playerbase and our profit at the same time? That should be the question IMO.

I think @Stinky Pete is right ... being a customer doesn't give you more input, it just gives you access. If you don't like the game, then don't access it and spend your money elsewhere. Just because you chose to spend your money to subscribe to UO or to buy something from the UO store or gold/items from a broker ... that doesn't mean your gameplay is any more important than anyone else's.

I just want to have fun. If I'm not having fun ... I'll go play something else or go offline completely (which I find myself doing more and more lately). If I'm mad at someone in-game, I'll just log off and go do something else until I'm not. This isn't a linear, every player goes through the game this way and only this way type of game. I don't like the way a lot of people interact in UO. A lot of people don't like the way I interact in UO. *shrugs* But, I think what will eventually be the death of UO is the unavailability of opportunities to get the things needed to play the game at the level most people want to play it. I think @Lore is right too ... the level of customer service needs to be higher. I'm looking for an experience, not just stuff.
 

R00

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
I play a multiplayer shooter game on private servers. You don't really own anything other than your equipment, which you can customize and trade etc. Anyhow, there was a HUGE discussion about a year or less ago about making the servers more "friendly" and less toxic because people were complaining on Reddit about the smacktalking. The server admins were talking about instituting bans on ... well a lot of stuff but mostly it was about language. The admins felt like they were missing out on revenue because people on Reddit said they weren't going to come play on these servers because of the toxicity.

You can play on their servers for free but if you pay a small amount, you get some really fun perks. You get a guaranteed slot on a full server but other than that, you don't get anything more substantial. Most of the egregious talking and demands were done by people who weren't paying.

The main reason that most people play on these servers is their incredibly strict no cheating policy. Steam already has an anti-cheat code and the server has a private anti-cheat thing too. If you get caught cheating, you get banned. They never unban you, unless you can absolutely prove it was a mistake. I've been playing on them for a decade and I can count on one hand the amount of people who have been unbanned. They also consistently update their hardware and software, they are as transparent as they can be and they communicate with their playerbase.

They ban for "hate" speech. They ban for all the other cheating stuff too but that one ... they give you three chances to not be a racist/homophobic/xenophobic/insertyourphobichere jerk. It's usually like a day, then a week then a month then you're permabanned. The "toxicity" people were talking about had nothing to do with that ... it was stuff like being called a bad player or some players telling others to play a different class or move their weapons or whatever.

Online gaming IS harsh. I found the whole conversation about banning people because they called someone a name ridiculous. I think, in the end, the admins decided to take a wait and see approach because a lot of their contributors said they weren't going to pay or play if this went through because there were some other issues that needed to be addressed first. Most of THOSE issues involved actual gameplay issues (like "friendlying" ... where you hang out with players from the other team and just mess around. You take up slots but don't actually work towards the goals of the games). That type of thing was from mostly non-contributing players.

A lot of the comments were that people needed to suck it up and stop getting butt hurt over a game. A GAME.

Any time you get a bunch of people together, with some level of anonymity, someone will act out. You just can't regulate human behavior. What you can do is mitigate how it effects other players if you feel like it's negatively affecting your bottom line. Because while it's a game to us ... it's a business for them and that should be their focus. How can we continue to grow our playerbase and our profit at the same time? That should be the question IMO.

I think @Stinky Pete is right ... being a customer doesn't give you more input, it just gives you access. If you don't like the game, then don't access it and spend your money elsewhere. Just because you chose to spend your money to subscribe to UO or to buy something from the UO store or gold/items from a broker ... that doesn't mean your gameplay is any more important than anyone else's.

I just want to have fun. If I'm not having fun ... I'll go play something else or go offline completely (which I find myself doing more and more lately). If I'm mad at someone in-game, I'll just log off and go do something else until I'm not. This isn't a linear, every player goes through the game this way and only this way type of game. I don't like the way a lot of people interact in UO. A lot of people don't like the way I interact in UO. *shrugs* But, I think what will eventually be the death of UO is the unavailability of opportunities to get the things needed to play the game at the level most people want to play it. I think @Lore is right too ... the level of customer service needs to be higher. I'm looking for an experience, not just stuff.
Just a guess. Rust?
 

Lore

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
I play a multiplayer shooter game on private servers. You don't really own anything other than your equipment, which you can customize and trade etc. Anyhow, there was a HUGE discussion about a year or less ago about making the servers more "friendly" and less toxic because people were complaining on Reddit about the smacktalking. The server admins were talking about instituting bans on ... well a lot of stuff but mostly it was about language. The admins felt like they were missing out on revenue because people on Reddit said they weren't going to come play on these servers because of the toxicity.

You can play on their servers for free but if you pay a small amount, you get some really fun perks. You get a guaranteed slot on a full server but other than that, you don't get anything more substantial. Most of the egregious talking and demands were done by people who weren't paying.

The main reason that most people play on these servers is their incredibly strict no cheating policy. Steam already has an anti-cheat code and the server has a private anti-cheat thing too. If you get caught cheating, you get banned. They never unban you, unless you can absolutely prove it was a mistake. I've been playing on them for a decade and I can count on one hand the amount of people who have been unbanned. They also consistently update their hardware and software, they are as transparent as they can be and they communicate with their playerbase.

They ban for "hate" speech. They ban for all the other cheating stuff too but that one ... they give you three chances to not be a racist/homophobic/xenophobic/insertyourphobichere jerk. It's usually like a day, then a week then a month then you're permabanned. The "toxicity" people were talking about had nothing to do with that ... it was stuff like being called a bad player or some players telling others to play a different class or move their weapons or whatever.

Online gaming IS harsh. I found the whole conversation about banning people because they called someone a name ridiculous. I think, in the end, the admins decided to take a wait and see approach because a lot of their contributors said they weren't going to pay or play if this went through because there were some other issues that needed to be addressed first. Most of THOSE issues involved actual gameplay issues (like "friendlying" ... where you hang out with players from the other team and just mess around. You take up slots but don't actually work towards the goals of the games). That type of thing was from mostly non-contributing players.

A lot of the comments were that people needed to suck it up and stop getting butt hurt over a game. A GAME.

Any time you get a bunch of people together, with some level of anonymity, someone will act out. You just can't regulate human behavior. What you can do is mitigate how it effects other players if you feel like it's negatively affecting your bottom line. Because while it's a game to us ... it's a business for them and that should be their focus. How can we continue to grow our playerbase and our profit at the same time? That should be the question IMO.

I think @Stinky Pete is right ... being a customer doesn't give you more input, it just gives you access. If you don't like the game, then don't access it and spend your money elsewhere. Just because you chose to spend your money to subscribe to UO or to buy something from the UO store or gold/items from a broker ... that doesn't mean your gameplay is any more important than anyone else's.

I just want to have fun. If I'm not having fun ... I'll go play something else or go offline completely (which I find myself doing more and more lately). If I'm mad at someone in-game, I'll just log off and go do something else until I'm not. This isn't a linear, every player goes through the game this way and only this way type of game. I don't like the way a lot of people interact in UO. A lot of people don't like the way I interact in UO. *shrugs* But, I think what will eventually be the death of UO is the unavailability of opportunities to get the things needed to play the game at the level most people want to play it. I think @Lore is right too ... the level of customer service needs to be higher. I'm looking for an experience, not just stuff.
Yea, Vac bans are no joke. They even get put on your profile where everyone can see it regardless of game. Kind of one of the reasons I was happy for a Steam integration. One of the few reasons though.
 
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