Ninjitsu in PvM and PvP

[Diomedes Artega]

Okay, so obviously I could post this in the template thread, but this is more on wanting input or people who have more knowledge in this then I do.

What are some viable templates with ninjitsu for PvM? and/or PvP? Either or both would be appreciated. I am looking at more of a dexxer template. Tired of playing an archer. Is hiding and stealth really necessary?

Here are just some ideas I have:

120 Weapon
120 Ninjitsu
120 Resist
120 Bushido or 120 parry, not sure which is better
120 Tactics (for specials)
120 Chivalry

120 Weapon
120 Ninjitsu
120 Resist
100 Anatomy
90 Healing
90 Tactics (for specials)
80 Chivalry

120 Weapon
120 Ninjitsu
120 Resist
100 Hiding
90 Stealth + 20 if needed with leggings
90 Tactics (for specials)
80 Chivalry

I won't really add any more since it would be redundant. I realize I can add tracking to help with death strike damage. I could use the bushido template to have an extra way to heal. I'm not really sure on anything else or on using other skills that would be better. Any suggestions? Has anyone used a template similar in terms of PvM? or PvP for that matter. I realize I can go without resist and use items + trapped box but I'm kind of a resist freak.

 

[aarons6]

the problem with ninja is you cant cast spells in animal form..

so you wont beable to heal in wolf form with chiv...

without hiding and stealth, id drop ninja all together..
the spells are worthless without stealth.

your better off chiv/bush and parry for pvm.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

True...good call. Had forgotten about that. So having stealth and hiding I could make a viable template? I know bushido is better overall probably or ninjitsu can be good with a mage template...just trying out something different. Thank you for the input.

 

[aarons6]

i have 2 ninjas.
one stealth archer and one stealth mage..

my stealth mage only uses ninja for shadow jump lol.. the skill doesnt do a mage any good.
i can change animal forms and run around, but then i gotta change back to cast.

i love the stealth archer tho

 

[Diomedes Artega]

Yeah I've tinkered with stealth archer and stealth mage. I understand that a melee stealth fighter probably wouldn't be able to solo anyone. Being a good support character is fine with me. I could use pots too. I just wanted chivalry to be high enough to help resurrect people in emergencies.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

So question then. I haven't extensively used smoke bombs. Is it a good ploy for being able to get away? Could I just supplement healing and anatomy instead of chivalry and resist? What about spirit speak and necromancy instead then?

I guess ninjitsu melee guys really are rare. I saw one the other day though. They are fun to watch.

 

[Lynk]

I play an assasin and I have a good time with it.

120 fencing
115 ninja
70 tactics (for fork bleed, kryss armor ignore, and lance dismount)
100 hide
80 stealth
100 resist spells
55 chiv
80 Poisoning

The character is very mana intensive. I use about 80 stam.

Offensive strategy depends on scenario. If there is no one around but you and your target, stealth up, lance dismount, dp, death strike, and spam armor ignore until you are out of mana.

If there are others around, stealth up, mount ethy, bleed, dp, death strike, armor ignores.

Smoke bombs are an excellent escape tactic, make sure your target is no longer bleeding or poison ticking before using it.

Another good escape tactic is to animal form between two houses (1 tile alley) and summon a mirror image on the run.

I also use a 100% reflect phys suit.

It's by far my favorite dexer to play.

It's important to have 4/6 casting to heal through archers or mage dumps, also carry cure potions in case you get deadly poisoned.

Not a toe to toe character, go for a quick strike and mana dump and evac. Once you have full mana stalk another victim.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

Great, thanks for the response Lynk. Nice idea for a dexxer template. I was honestly just debating making a stealth archer again after the one I used to have.

Tactics were somewhat different back in the day though. Thanks for the summary and the different tips.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

Another question though, I thought from what I recall that you can poison with ninjitsu? Does my memory serve me wrong or is this a false assumption?

I have 80 poisoning stoned anyways, so its not a question of having to work that pesky and tedious skill...I just wondered.

 

[Skelf]

You can poison effectively using poisoned shuriken from a Ninja Belt equipped in the belt/apron slot. Large body of opinion would hold that Poisoning is a waste of points on a Ninja build. However, you would want Ninj at 120 as this effecively becomes your weapons skill when determining hit chance with shuriken.

What you lose is the ability to use the special Infectious Strike" - but then you gain by no longer being tied to Fencing as your weapon skill - which again many would say is an improvement..;p

 

[Diomedes Artega]

You can poison effectively using poisoned shuriken from a Ninja Belt equipped in the belt/apron slot. Large body of opinion would hold that Poisoning is a waste of points on a Ninja build. However, you would want Ninj at 120 as this effecively becomes your weapons skill when determining hit chance with shuriken.

What you lose is the ability to use the special Infectious Strike" - but then you gain by no longer being tied to Fencing as your weapon skill - which again many would say is an improvement..;p

Okay great. Good information. I write most stuff down so that I remember but...I didn't think my memory was THAT bad. Thanks so much! Yeah I have a large variety of weapons but I didn't want to limit myself to only fencing. I like to move things around and use different weapon skills from time to time.

I had just wanted to try something out other than archery. I had read some information on viable templates, so this is ALL great information everyone has contributed so far. Even reading the FAQ doesn't always give perspective how a skill can be played efficiently.

Is having an ecru ring viable then aside from using chivalry in terms of healing? Just wondered since regardless this is a pretty cramped template.

 

[Lynk]

I prefer the poisoning skill to shurikens. My infectious strike does level 5 poison, which is considerably harder to cure (without potions) than the level 4.

The only change one might consider making to this template would be parry instead of resist, or even possibly meditation.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

I prefer the poisoning skill to shurikens. My infectious strike does level 5 poison, which is considerably harder to cure (without potions) than the level 4.

Ah okay I see that is a valid point certainly. So for race then, human preferably? Or it doesn't matter either way?

Chivalry and/or ecru ring for healing? Just wanted anyone's idea on best healing method or if that even matters...

 

[Skelf]

I tried Elf initially for the stealth bonus and nightsight. The extra 20 mana gets burned up very fast with Ninjitsu.

Plan on Rune Beetle Carapace as chest piece - I feel it's almost a must. With the LMC, MR3 and extra 10 mana it goes a long way towards fixing the mana probs. If you are human, JoAT Focus and Med give you another MR3

I found mana regen, to say nothing of health and stamina, so slow that I quested to get to human. If you use chiv to regain health and stamina, it only exacerbates the mana regen problem. I don't mind carrying some potions but it's not practical to use them as the main means of recovery. So that leaves Ninja shapechange for recovery - you will have to play in bursts with recovery time outs...

As far as Poisoning vs Shuriken goes...a couple of extra points. No PvP'er, not one ever, will be caught without some means of curing poison, even lvl 5. That's usually pots and they do it as a reflex...

There is also a case for arguing that lower level poisons are more useful as they *will* interrupt spellcasting - which lvl 4/5 rarely do.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

I found mana regen, to say nothing of health and stamina, so slow that I quested to get to human. If you use chiv to regain health and stamina, it only exacerbates the mana regen problem. I don't mind carrying some potions but it's not practical to use them as the main means of recovery. So that leaves Ninja shapechange for recovery - you will have to play in bursts with recovery time outs...

Okay great information. Yeah I was human already...I just wanted another person's take on what they thought about it. I understand what you mean now about the chivalry though. Seems kind of a waste maybe...I haven't decided on it though.

Right, I also thought there was a timer on potions now? Maybe I misread that information somewhere I don't recall. I had not planned on potions for a main means, just an emergency supplement but it seems from what you have said that...those would not be needed.

Thanks for the information.

 

[Sir Kenga]

Ninjutsu is pretty useless for pvm, the only i can think of is mirror images and shadow jumping and using smoke bombs.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

Yeah it is just more supplementary in PvM it seems. I've still seen good PvM'ers that used ninjitsu. lol, guess I should have asked them their templates at the time.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

Obviously it isn't the same as an ABC archer or sampire or even the pally template I used to play. Someone I knew played this template for PvM:

120 Weapon
100 Tactics
100 Anatomy
100 Healing
100 Hiding
80 Stealth

I'm not sure where they had their other 20 points or what they added it to later on. I suppose they stacked as much DI equipment/mods as they could onto their character. I'm not real sure...they seemed to swear by it though. Only other thing I recall is they were human.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

I play an assasin and I have a good time with it.

120 fencing
115 ninja
70 tactics (for fork bleed, kryss armor ignore, and lance dismount)
100 hide
80 stealth
100 resist spells
55 chiv
80 Poisoning

So far Lynk, this is the most interesting template I've looked at. I understand the tactics used and what not, I am just not crazy about seeing the 70 tactics in there. I would like 90 tactics for secondary. Not sure how I would adjust it though. Seems like you have everything in the right place.

I actually have not seen any other descent dexxer templates for PvP aside from ones that throw in spirit speak or necro.

80 Stealth is the minimum required to not get passively detected right? I don't recall right off. Is a magic number I remember.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

Are the shadow dancing leggings reliable? Couldn't I use them to GM stealth? Anyone use them and like them?

 

[ayahuasca]

120 weapon, 100 tac, 120 nin, 100 hide, 80 stealth, 100 focus, 100 bush.

I use cat form and boh, or runic armor for hp regen and mana regen. Potions as well. I can farm all but the highest end creatures with this template. Depending on what I'm farming, I might switch bush for resist, anat, or alchemy, add a ecru ring and use gr conflag and gr ex pots. Lots of regen, lots of mirror images, a confidence now and then if wearing bush. I do great on siege with this template farming gold, and I use cursed items, so they are easily replaced, and I can get by without them if necessary. If you are playing a shard with insurance, you'll have it made.

 

[GFY]

If you really want Ninjutsu find a weapon with shadow strike on it. You'll need hiding and stealth to make it work but it is very effective both offensively and defensively. You attack from hiding, get a 25% damage increase, and the move returns you to hiding after it hits! Cutlass, Smith’s Hammer, Two-Handed Axe, Dagger, & Sledge Hammer are some of the weapons to chose from.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

If you really want Ninjutsu find a weapon with shadow strike on it. You'll need hiding and stealth to make it work but it is very effective both offensively and defensively. You attack from hiding, get a 25% damage increase, and the move returns you to hiding after it hits! Cutlass, Smith’s Hammer, Two-Handed Axe, Dagger, & Sledge Hammer are some of the weapons to chose from.

Hey good point, I had not thought of that. Yeah I had only used ninjitsu before the tactics patch and had actually taken a break from the game a while before that came about. So this is all useful and some of it...new information to me.

Thanks for the tips.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

120 weapon, 100 tac, 120 nin, 100 hide, 80 stealth, 100 focus, 100 bush.

I use cat form and boh, or runic armor for hp regen and mana regen. Potions as well. I can farm all but the highest end creatures with this template. Depending on what I'm farming, I might switch bush for resist, anat, or alchemy, add a ecru ring and use gr conflag and gr ex pots. Lots of regen, lots of mirror images, a confidence now and then if wearing bush. I do great on siege with this template farming gold, and I use cursed items, so they are easily replaced, and I can get by without them if necessary. If you are playing a shard with insurance, you'll have it made.

Just curious since I'm pretty familiar with bushido templates, what do you mean you can farm all but the highest end creatures?

Like what for example? Do you use honor? Just curious what gives you trouble on this template. Is a good combination of tactics I think.

 

[GFY]

120 weapon, 100 tac, 120 nin, 100 hide, 80 stealth, 100 focus, 100 bush.

No offense, this looks like a good template. Just one thought however, wouldn't 100 points be better spent somewhere other then focus?

 

[spoonyd]

No offense, this looks like a good template. Just one thought however, wouldn't 100 points be better spent somewhere other then focus?

You'd be right about this. Anything but focus because it's SO BAD. If you plan to play mana heavy, go with meditation with any spare points you have.