New thief needs advice please :-)

[Dhara]

Hi Guys,

Well, I've been working on a new theif. I'll admit it was the academic bookcase that got me motivated. I'm one of those crafty, deco girls and I simply can't live without a couple of those. So I started my thief and have been working on my template.

I've been browsing both thief forums and when since I started reading this forum, I became quite intrigued with the idea of a pvp theif. I've never really pvp'd but I laughed so hard when I read all of your TOM posts and it just looks a lot like my natural gaming style ... keep my distance, stay hidden, strike when ready, RUN!!..... So, I am really interested in making my template work for both a Doom/PVM as well as a PVP thief assasign.

I am actually very excited about it and I have come up with a few questions I am hoping you vets can help me out with, if you have a moment.

I have always either been a mage or an archer. Like I said, I like to keep my distance in a fight. But I can't resist the Ninja skill either because it seems so complimentary to being a thief and I don't want to learn fencing. So here is what I have come up with so far...

100 Archery (+14 Jewelry = 114)
100 Hiding
50 Magery (for recalls, heal, the occasional untrap, etc.)
70 Meditation (is this enough?)
100 Ninja (+15 Jewelry = 115)
90 Snooping (+10 BB = 100)
100 Stealing (+10 BB = 110)
100 Stealth (+10 BB = 110)

710 - and 10 pts to play with

**100 Tracking (keep in SS)
**100 Lockpicking (keep in SS)

(+10 Stat Cap)
Str 90
Dex 100
Int 45

My suit is currently 55/30/41/51/44 with 783 Luck (I "just" threw it together today). My goal is to have an all 70's suit with as much luck as possible. However, I am wondering if luck actually makes a difference on this sort of template? Maybe LRC or LMC would be better? Or maybe I need two? One for pvp and one for pvm?

I am also concerned about Tactics and Focus. How important are they with this template and should I do my best to work either one of those in?

I appreciate any and all comments and thanks in advance...

 

[Viper09]

Ok, focus is not needed.
But if you're going with archery, I might suggest adding tactics in with that so you can actually do some damage with your attacks.

Drop mediation and magery and try and up your tactics to at least in the 100 range.
You can run with chiv around 40 and still pull off heals, cures and recall.

For stealth you can lower that to 80.
Also, if you can, get some shadow dancer leggings which can make room for some more skill pts.
Shadow Legs will add +20 stealing and +20 stealth.

 

[Touzoko]

Archery is very nice, but many thieves prefer fencing. Without tactivs, you may poison and shadowstrike, which can be very useful.
This one has also been training macing. Cavorting club gives some additional resists, is fast, and has both shadowstrike and dismount. For dismount you would need tactics, but that combo could also be very useful.

 

[RichDC]

Also reading your playstyle, remember that once your running from your mark...you cannot stop!!!

If you want to be a "thug thief" then thats a diff template which i couldnt help you with.

I play a steal and run thief and all i had in my mind was...

How can i not be hit and heal without stopping???

I came with 2 options:

Wrestle/alchemy
(also gives you the disarm if the archers are really annoying!and para if mages catch you)

Healing/anatomy (have to be human for this one)

The first one if you have an ecru will give you 80%EP and about 40 from each heal (add to that almost 40hp from str pot and wolf form).

The second you need to be human and push anat as high as you can because(anat+eval)/2 = combat "skill" (defensive terms only, will give you 70 with 120anat and human 20eval)

Also remember that once in form you cannot cast spells (no evasion no confidence no chiv no magery)

+luck...bin it!!!

Stick with high resists (im assuming prodo shard) High HPR and SR, Hp increase/mana increase.

Oh...sorry if this is long winded...get as many points as you possibly can without negating resists/mods etc (im getting almost 100points on my suit)

 

[Dhara]

Thanks guys. A lot of great suggestions here.

RichDC, I think I like your suggestion for wrestling. I hate the fact that my bow keeps going in my pack everytime I heal because it's not spell channeling and I really don't think a Pally/Thief is a good mix. It just does not make sense in the roll-playing aspect of it all. So, wrestling would eliminate the need for carrying anything and I could steal and take potions much easier too with my hands free. I could use the stars and darts to poison when I need to be on the offensive and potions to heal. I did not realize I could run and take a heal potion, but I suppose it makes sense that I could. I do have a GM Alchemist & Scribe, so I can make all the potions and recalls I need. I like the idea of the disarm too. I think I'm going to check it out.

So, I'm considering a few changes to my template now:

100 Wrestling
100 Tactics
100 Hiding
100 Ninja (+15 Jewelry = 115)
90 Snooping (+10 BB = 100)
65 Stealing (+15 jewelry +10 BB & + 20 SDL = 110)
60 Stealth (+10 BB & +20 SDL = 90)
100 Tracking

715

**100 Lockpicking (keep in SS)

I managed to fit tracking on there so I can use that one ninja spell that uses that, buty do I need to go all the way with the ninja skill? I won't be carrying a weapon but I'm not sure which of the spells require a weapon and which do not or if I can just keep it at 85 or so to cover most of them. I've got room, but with the right accessories I might be able to fit in enough lockpicking to not have to use my soulstone. What do you guys think?

I also think I'll drop the luck, if you don't think I need it, and just go for high resists and med (for the ninja). I can use that armor on my mage because she is the one who goes out PVMing all the time.

Thanks again for all of the adivce! It's much appreciated

 

[Viper09]

Ok, if you are going with wrestling I don't think you will need tactics.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Ok, if you are going with wrestling I don't think you will need tactics.

Correct...la

 

[Robthemilt]

I'd drop tatics fill out your other skills (wrestling) and dump the remaining into chiv or magery. I use chiv just to be able to travel and not appear. I remember appearing next to lich lords in doom, or at the fire entrance in fel just to say "Hi" to a bunch of people going in on a coon.

 

[RichDC]

Id definatly say keep your ninja where it is if your going to lower it only lower 5points to 100%llama/ossie form.

Maybe take detect hidden as well as tracking to reveal those pesky invis tamers at champs.

i havent checked with all the spells but you definatly can deathstrike with fists...i do it all the time when im in a tight spot and need to get the mark to stop coming at me(see the shock when they suddenly get hit for 35 points by fists!!!), also makes me laugh alot!

Lockpicking isnt really needed on a thief, maybe keep that SS for a t-hunter but i think youll so rarely use it that its a waste.

Chiv or magery are all nice for the extra heals and such but just bear in mind you cant do them in animal forms.

For extra help get hold of some invis items(i stole alot of these!) and some teleport items, you can use the invis as soon as you steal...no timer on them and stealth away until yor safe and then hide (bear in mind if you remove the invis jewel/clothes you will auto reveal), also the teleport works while invised just like shadow jump but you dont need to move to initiate stealth.

Oh yea...definatly 120 wrestle!!!

 

[Viper09]

I'd take chiv over magery for a number of reasons:

No regs you need to have on you which removes the necessity to re-stock regs every time you die unless you have a good lrc suit.

Divine fury, which fills your stam.

The recall gives you enough time before you recall.

You can just keep chiv at around 50 to use all these spells

I just recently added Detect at GM to my thief with 55 tracking. It's really nice, but it also came with a new wave of whining from PK stealthers. But what am I to do to keep myself busy when there is nothing to steal???

 

[Touzoko]

If you plan on using your stars and darts much, higher ninja will help. Your hit sucess rate is based upon your ninja skill.

This one has 110 archery, almost 100 macing, and 120 fencing. I actually use wrestling most, because I have foolishly attempted to steal w/o emptying hands first, which is embarassing. With stun and disarm, I do not fear the persons I am stealing from. I can stun or disarm, then run away and smoke bomb. Have had great success with this.

Thank you, whoever mentioned deathstrike with wrestling. Of this, I was unaware. How nice!

Also- chiv over mage- I use mage on siege due to no sacred journey here, but wish there was. No regs= less weight and more room to carry on that once in a blue moon looting expedition where you need to carry large amounts. Does not make sense? Chaotic good thief!

 

[Robthemilt]

Viper you've stubled on one of my favorite passtimes as a fel spectator. if you run with bollas in your pack you'll have even more fun.

 

[Viper09]

Viper you've stubled on one of my favorite passtimes as a fel spectator. if you run with bollas in your pack you'll have even more fun.

Ah, bolas are one of my favorite things to collect when nothing else to steal
So I always have at least one bola on me *har har*

 

[Dhara]

Thanks for all of the suggestions! I can't ever remember comtemplating a template so hard before My main problem is that I want to try ALL of your suggestions, but simply can't. If only I had a couple hundreds extra points to work with :-(

I am still wavering between archer and wrestler.

One reason is that my brother really thinks I should go with the archer. He's a fencing, stealthing, poisoner and we plan on going out a lot together with these two characters.

Another is that I have soulstoned over my GM archer skill to this char and if I use that I won't have to skill wrestling up. I could transfer over my chiv as well because I, for some reason, got bored with that character so she is only used as a lumberjack these days.

I think what I might do is just go with the archer since I already have that skill and see if I like it. If not, then I can always switch to wrestling. As much as I don't think it makes sense to have chiv on a thief, I am going to go ahead and use it for now, to see how I like that just so I can get around and have another heal option. I'm not a big-time roleplayer so I can probably overlook that aspect. I can transfer 64 points over so I won't have to skill that either and I can just concentrate skilling on my ninja and stealing skills.

So that is the new plan....for now anyway

Thanks again and you guys try to stay outta trouble!

 

[Touzoko]

Remember- you CAN try all of these suggestions! Test center for experimentation!

 

[Robthemilt]

Almost 2 years into the game and i dont have a single finished character. Constantly changing it up keeps the game fun. Over time you should try a bunch of these suggestions.

 

[wapabito]

Stick with high resists (im assuming prodo shard) High HPR and SR, Hp increase/mana increase.

if i was to insure a 70 suit as a thief would it be 300 a piece to insure? i would assume that a thief would be considered as pvp?

 

[Touzoko]

remember- as thief you also may be hiding quite a bit of the time. Healing can be an issue- pots and bandies expose, going into cat/dog form gives the little "poof". This thief used to carry bracelet of health- heal while on the move constantly. He gave that up for crustal ring, which has at least 5 hp regen, and also some mana regen, plus 20 focus. That works for him pretty well.