• Hail Guest!
    We're looking for Community Content Contribuitors to Stratics. If you would like to write articles, fan fiction, do guild or shard event recaps, it's simple. Find out how in this thread: Community Contributions
  • Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
  • Hail Guest!,
    Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
  • Hail Guest!
    Please read the new announcement concerning the upcoming addition to Stratics. You can find the announcement Here!

New character help

  • Thread starter kendalldcfan
  • Start date
  • Watchers 1
K

kendalldcfan

Guest
I just started a new character on Siege last week and since this is my first experience on siege I have a few questions.
1. I am training a fencer but my Tactics is stuck at 28. I am gaining fencing, healing, anatomy, stealth , hiding and other skills fine but my tactics will not raise. I am mainly fighting in ant holes untill my healing raises. Mainly black warriors low level kills. Is this why I am not gaing tactics. I mainly fight there because it is safe(or it was before this post).
2. I see a lot of mages in PVP or the ones that are killing me anyway. Is this them main PVP character here. Are there any dexxers that pvp and is fencing a waste of my time for pvp. I choose it to make some loot without buying regs.
Any help would be appreciated.
 
A

archite666

Guest
well to gain tactics try switching up the monsters, someone else will give you a good list of monsters to gain from.

No mages are actually a luxery here, the majority of the pvpers are dexxers, if your getting killed by KOC alot, that would explain the surplus of mages you see,I recommand joining the NEW guild as we dont attack NEW as well as because NEW will give you with starting equipment that will help you get on your feet, I know they helped me out alot.

I'm sorta like a honorary permanent member of NEW and I highly recommend that guild for new people.

If you need anything in game, or advice except for training, i'm full of wisdom and money. :scholar:
 
G

Goron

Guest
Cash is right.
many dexxers, some mages.
join NEW.


Fencing is fine- with the skills you listed.
 

Vortex

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Dexxers are there, you just have to get past the tamers :eek:

Fencing is really nice if you find a good warfork.
 
A

archite666

Guest
OMG did everyone see that?

Goron just said I was right, in reference to me having wisdom, screen shot!
 
K

kendalldcfan

Guest
I have seen NEW guild running around and know that they do not get attacked much. 5 of us came here from Atlantic and started a guild. I do not relly mind the PK's it reminds of the days when UO was actually fun to play. Atlantic like most other shards is full of Rich PVPers. I just came back to UO after five years, and I do not have 150 million to spend on a suit. I like this shard because it seems fair. Work your character then go fight. Anyway all though i appreciate the responses i received so far I am still stuck at 28 tactics. Can anyone tell me what they did to raise there tactics. I can not fight strong creatures yet because my healing is low only like 60. We used to fight eachother to raise skills back in the day is that still a good option. I played on Atlantic from 99-02 give or take. My guild the was SSJ. Are there any people here that were on atlantic back then? Is there anyone that was in SSJ then? Again thanks for the help but being in NEW takes something away from the game for me. Also we use to summon deamons to work resist does that still work?
 

Vortex

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Go to the Jhelom pits and hire a fighter to spar with. Get one that is not holding a weapon and one that charges 6 gold if you can.

Tell me all guard me, then tell him to kill you. You will get tactics, and if you heal him, you will get healing and anatomy.
 
O

Ole Cheapy

Guest
I am mainly fighting in ant holes untill my healing raises. Mainly black warriors low level kills. Is this why I am not gaing tactics. I mainly fight there because it is safe(or it was before this post).
You got that right! ROFL... I'll give ya one thing, you're not a dummy, that's for sure. I'll be seeing ya real soon, bro. :gun:

BTW: Boneknights will gm your tactics for you. And as far as NEW goes, I respect the guild and love Shal to death, but I agree with your opinion as to why you don't wanna join, but your opinion won't save you when I catch you out. Sorry. Do me one lil favor though, after i have my way with you and your 4 friends, tell all your friends from Atlantic about me.
 

UncleSham

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
sounds to me like you are fighting stuff thats too high a level. you have to train on stuff thats close to your level ... i think its 20 percent . or within 20 points or some thing .

the lesser fighters might give you gains . but you might want to go whack some cows for a while . no kidding . go to delucia . kill the cows collect the leather and ribs . you always need food (never train or fight hungry) and crafters will buy your leather ... 20 to 30 gold a piece for cut leather.

if you cant gain off cows go whack chickens outside of moonglow . collect the feathers . (folks will pay like 3 to 5 a piece for feathers to make crossbow bolts)

or sheep at the yew farms . sheer the sheep (gets you wool). whack the sheep . by the time you get thru all the sheep the first one should respawn . and then you can sheer / kill em all again .

use the wool on a spining wheel (any tailor shop) get yarn . use yarn on any loom (again tailor shop) get bolts of cloth . poeple pay 250 gold for a bolt here . (tailor doesnt sell cloth here)


theres 3 good ways to make some starter money and by the time you get done your skills should be high enough to gain off of the better money monsters.

edit =mages in pvp ... um , kinda rare . can be costly (regs are high here and good lrc suilts hard to find / easy to lose) altho properly done thay are probably the most powerfull in the guild wars.
id say do your fencing thing till you are maxed out and have some money to blow .THEN blow some of it on soulstones and start a mage .

you may find you like the fencer stealth template . it can be most dealdly . kinda depends what you want your role to be . solo killer ? work your current template . good team player? mage.

the beauty of having the dexer on soulstones is you can come back to it if you dont like the mage.
 
K

kendalldcfan

Guest
You got that right! ROFL... I'll give ya one thing, you're not a dummy, that's for sure. I'll be seeing ya real soon, bro. :gun:

BTW: Boneknights will gm your tactics for you. And as far as NEW goes, I respect the guild and love Shal to death, but I agree with your opinion as to why you don't wanna join, but your opinion won't save you when I catch you out. Sorry. Do me one lil favor though, after i have my way with you and your 4 friends, tell all your friends from Atlantic about me.
My friend you did not leave ur name. How am I suppose to fear you if you do not leave your name. You may kill me now for I see many thrill in killing noobs here. I rarely see any brave souls attacking those they think they can not beat. You are probably friends of Wyrm or maybe even related to him in rl. He is a real brave soul. Anyway I hope you find as much humor in me owning you 3-4 months from now as you find in killing noobs today.
 
A

Alrich

Guest
cows, goats, sheep and other random crap, then switch to skeletons (yew gy works well, only skels there) they can take you up to rot.
 
C

CroakerTnT

Guest
To gain tactics, you need to be fighting something with tactics within 20 points of yours. So, at 28 tactics, you need to find something with 8-48 tactics to get gains.

Use the hunters guide on the main stratics page to check them, but I'm betting you need to hit things like harts, wolves, polar bears, perhaps lizardmen, etc.
 

Draxous

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Anyway all though i appreciate the responses i received so far I am still stuck at 28 tactics. Can anyone tell me what they did to raise there tactics. I can not fight strong creatures yet because my healing is low only like 60.
Go to Delucia in the lost lands and kill the sheep, goats, bulls, crap outside the North - North-West entrance by the healers.

Do that to 40.0

Then go to any graveyard (or spirituality in Ilshenar and go to Blood dungeon to the East) and kill Skeletons

Do that until 60.0

Then go to Shame and kill Earth Elementals until you hit 70.0

problem should be solved... but now, you may have a new problem with PKs since I just told them where to find you if you take my advice ;)
 
K

kendalldcfan

Guest
Thanks for all the help..I gained 20+ points today sparing with a guild mate, since we are about the same level it worked well. I will try skeletons and then earth ellys hopefully be at 70 soon. Thanks again...
 
O

Ole Cheapy

Guest
You got that right! ROFL... I'll give ya one thing, you're not a dummy, that's for sure. I'll be seeing ya real soon, bro. :gun:

BTW: Boneknights will gm your tactics for you. And as far as NEW goes, I respect the guild and love Shal to death, but I agree with your opinion as to why you don't wanna join, but your opinion won't save you when I catch you out. Sorry. Do me one lil favor though, after i have my way with you and your 4 friends, tell all your friends from Atlantic about me.
My friend you did not leave ur name. How am I suppose to fear you if you do not leave your name. You may kill me now for I see many thrill in killing noobs here. I rarely see any brave souls attacking those they think they can not beat. You are probably friends of Wyrm or maybe even related to him in rl. He is a real brave soul. Anyway I hope you find as much humor in me owning you 3-4 months from now as you find in killing noobs today.
You will never ever be able to beat me, you can trust and believe that.

FYI: I am friends with Wyrm, and also his guildmate, but I have been collecting lost souls long before me and Wyrm became friends, so that has nothing to do with it. The point is... you're the weak, and I am a evil Lord that feeds of the weak just like the lions do in the jungle. Siege is in fact a jungle.
 
K

kendalldcfan

Guest
You will never ever be able to beat me, you can trust and believe that.

FYI: I am friends with Wyrm, and also his guildmate, but I have been collecting lost souls long before me and Wyrm became friends, so that has nothing to do with it. The point is... you're the weak, and I am a evil Lord that feeds of the weak just like the lions do in the jungle. Siege is in fact a jungle.
Again sir if you wish for me to fear you you must tell me your name in the game. It sounds like you are into role playing talking about evil lords and lions and such. I know your brother Wyrm likes to talk about an emporer or something. I am not into role playing (honestly think it is silly). You should probably get some sun and take up a hobby. Start with something simple like Marbles or Jacks. Maybe in a few years you can progress to Crickett or Bad mitten. Maybe 10 years from now you will have the social skills to find a female companion. I find it humerous and sad when people refer to themselves as evil lords and emporers in a game. What will you do in a the future when EA pulls the plug on UO. I suggest a good Psychiatrists.
 

kelmo

Old and in the way
Professional
Alumni
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Dread Lord
Again sir if you wish for me to fear you you must tell me your name in the game. It sounds like you are into role playing talking about evil lords and lions and such. I know your brother Wyrm likes to talk about an emporer or something. I am not into role playing (honestly think it is silly). You should probably get some sun and take up a hobby. Start with something simple like Marbles or Jacks. Maybe in a few years you can progress to Crickett or Bad mitten. Maybe 10 years from now you will have the social skills to find a female companion. I find it humerous and sad when people refer to themselves as evil lords and emporers in a game. What will you do in a the future when EA pulls the plug on UO. I suggest a good Psychiatrists.

*blinks*
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Patron
Again sir if you wish for me to fear you you must tell me your name in the game. It sounds like you are into role playing talking about evil lords and lions and such. I know your brother Wyrm likes to talk about an emporer or something. I am not into role playing (honestly think it is silly).
Did you lose your imagination, you sound damn boring.

You should probably get some sun and take up a hobby. Start with something simple like Marbles or Jacks. Maybe in a few years you can progress to Crickett or Bad mitten. Maybe 10 years from now you will have the social skills to find a female companion.
Did you find your spinster? Real women love wild guys :lick:

I find it humerous and sad when people refer to themselves as evil lords and emporers in a game. What will you do in a the future when EA pulls the plug on UO. I suggest a good Psychiatrists.
It's a RP game, you should try to set your imagination free, it do not hurt :lick:

Sorry I could not resist :D
 
A

Alrich

Guest
aye least the RPed pks are more interesting then the random ones who see you, an ex por vas ort flam etc. then cut up all your stuff for no reason without saying anything besides 111`11`1`32``1 from macros
 
K

kendalldcfan

Guest
aye least the RPed pks are more interesting then the random ones who see you, an ex por vas ort flam etc. then cut up all your stuff for no reason without saying anything besides 111`11`1`32``1 from macros
I was only talking smack to people that talked smack to me. I am not sure what you are trying to say here, I have met some cool PK's here but a few that I see mainly killing noobs and boasting. To me there is no pride in killing noobs, but oh well thats me.

Did you find your spinster? Real women love wild guys :lick:
Spinster? You do realize its 2008. Happy days and Brady Bunch went off air decades ago. I am sorry i do not consider people that brag about video games to be "wild guys", but if it works for you then good luck with that.


It's a RP game, you should try to set your imagination free, it do not hurt :lick:
I believe you meant it does not hurt. They will teach you that in the 7th grade in a few years. I think its a game where some people role play. I have seen far less role players the people who just play the game but may be thats just me.
Anyway thanks again to the people who gave me great advise, and if I ruffled the feathers of the role playing people then let me say this. It is not my thing I think it is silly, but if you want to play a game and talk like you are in the 1400's then by all means have fun with that. That is what makes this game interesting and may keep it up and running for a few more years.
 
A

archite666

Guest
Woaw dude, completely wrong attitude.

I retract my offers from before.

You shouldnt insult roleplayers, As this shard is full of them.

And yes I believe roleplay PKs are way cooler than normal ones, im a normal one and id lame. I miss vampiric embrace.... :(

Secondly you should know how foolish you make yourself sound when you make fun of other peoples grammer and spelling, you do realise alot of our player base is foreign right? Since you seem so near sighted il tell you that means they are not from America which generally means English is not their first language, how many languages can you right and speak?

Do yourself a favor friend, hit the reset button and play it cool. You do not want yourself being put into the pariah catagory, those who comes from prodo shards and are immature and only wish to grief people. You do not want that because, regardless of who you may know, there are always more people from every guild that will come together just to grief you and drive you from the shard.

Dont believe me? Asking yourself "what could they possibly do?" ask a guy named papa georgia what people like me can do to grief them.
 
O

Ole Cheapy

Guest
Again sir if you wish for me to fear you you must tell me your name in the game.
Normally I would not answer this question being that my name is all over my signature (SIG), but in your case my name is ....Cheapsuit, I want you to know it was me when you run into him in game. ;)
 

Draxous

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I'm going to say that:

Wyrm isn't this RPer you all are trying to make him out to be.

VMP died a long time ago and since then, he's been a twink killing newbies because he can't PvP with the big boys. :scholar:


If he really was an RPer with some sort of guild and a mission... sure, but being nobody here is stupid... the only RPing he does, is in his own mind.
 
K

kendalldcfan

Guest
archite666 If you read post from begining you will see that I asked for help and was very polite untill I caught smack from other players. As I stated I have met many cool PK's on this shard. Some may have been role players I do not know. I have also met lame pkers like Wyrm that runs around Luna bank and other gates killing noobs and trying to extort gold from them in the name of the emporer and then boasting to new characters how great he is. After I caught smack I came back at players like that. If sir that is role playing on this shard than yes in my opinion it is silly. With that said I also think Star trek freaks are silly, but they fill convention halls every year. bottom line I was very polite and thankful for the help I received until cheapy started talking smack to me about being a lord and something about lions. Again if that is your role playing In my opinion silly. I have never role played on here I did play D&D growing up, and enjoyed it. I simply do not have the time and would rather be in other social groups. As for FrejaSP she came at me before I said anything to her. It was not my intent to insult real role players. Please tell me that is not what you consider Wyrm. My apoligies to the real role players and to you sir if you feel like I took a cheap shot at you.
 
A

Alrich

Guest
pks kill people. hence being "player killers" lame or not, they gonna kill you if yer new or a vet. Cuz they like to kill people! You will learn to run... or fight back... or try to fight and then run and die trying. Whatever long as you keep a light heart its all good

Hope you lose the attitude because you won't last on siege with it at all..

That aside welcome to siege =)
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Patron
As for FrejaSP she came at me before I said anything to her. It was not my intent to insult real role players. Please tell me that is not what you consider Wyrm. My apoligies to the real role players and to you sir if you feel like I took a cheap shot at you.
I did not special defend WyRm. I got mad at your attack of Ole Cheapy, special a few quotes made me react as I did.

It sounds like you are into role playing talking about evil lords and lions and such. I know your brother Wyrm likes to talk about an emporer or something. I am not into role playing (honestly think it is silly).
It's ok you don't RP but calling RP for silly in a RP game do not make sense to me.
You did not know Sheapsuit ingame, you attack him and mainly tells him he is silly and you do not stop here. Now you go and try to belittle him.

You should probably get some sun and take up a hobby. Start with something simple like Marbles or Jacks. Maybe in a few years you can progress to Crickett or Bad mitten. Maybe 10 years from now you will have the social skills to find a female companion. I find it humerous and sad when people refer to themselves as evil lords and emporers in a game. What will you do in a the future when EA pulls the plug on UO. I suggest a good Psychiatrists.
You even tells him he need a Psychiatrists.

This tells me something about you and I don't think I like you.

Now about my spelling, you just made one more try to belittle someone.

You better changes your attitude or Siege will be damn hard for you. Just an advice, not a threat.
 

Petra Fyde

Peerless Chatterbox
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
hmm, a few gentle words of advice:

1. Learn to smile at people's posturing. Cheapsuit has a personna for his character and mostly posts within it. If Wyrm shows up he'll do the same, make allowances for that.

2. Take into account that not everyone on this board is American and therefore, for some, English is not their first language, they may phrase things in ways that seem awkward to you.

3. If you're going to criticise someone's spelling, make sure your own is above reproach. The games you mentioned are called Cricket and Badminton.

4. Most of the insults on this board come under the heading of 'board pvp'. (Which I try hard to persuade people to keep within RoC). It means very little beyond a little posturing. For example, you will see KoC and TnT members depicting fierce enmity, except for one period a few weeks ago when they were allied. At that point you can find posts full of praise for each other's abilities.

This board suffers from occasional bouts of what I privately think of as GTO - Galloping Testesterone Overload. Don't take it all too seriously.
 
K

kendalldcfan

Guest
Ok this is my last post on this thread after this love me or hate me I do not care. Alrich I do not have a problem with PK's, or do I have a problem being killed in this game. It is what made the game great long ago and the only reason I came to Siege. I did say that I believe someone who runs around killing noobs and boasting is lame, and if that is Role playing then it is lame role playing. FrejaSP I was very polite and thankfull until Cheapy came at me. I am not a role player so I am not going to come back at him with lions and talking about devouring souls. I came at him talking smack like we do in America. It was all in fun, I was not offended by what he said but I am not going to let anyone talk smack to me and not say anything. If he was offended why did he not say something? Petra Fyde the main problem I have with RPers is that they talk a little smack but do not understand when a non role player talks smack to them it is all in fun. If you think this is belittling you should see some of the things said in fun on my Fantasy Football league. BlacK RaiN you seem like a cool player maybe we can get together in game. To all: I would rather you hate me for who I am then like me for who I'm not! Its all in fun I never attack on boards but will always defend.
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Patron
FrejaSP I was very polite and thankfull until Cheapy came at me. I am not a role player so I am not going to come back at him with lions and talking about devouring souls. I came at him talking smack like we do in America. It was all in fun, I was not offended by what he said but I am not going to let anyone talk smack to me and not say anything.
He did not talk smack to you, he was just telling you to expect to die if you see him ingame and why. His playstyle is much like a lion, he will go for a weak and easy target just like a lion.

Old Cheapy said:
The point is... you're the weak, and I am a evil Lord that feeds of the weak just like the lions do in the jungle. Siege is in fact a jungle.
He did not smack talk you at all. He had been nice and trying to help you with your probblem gaining skills. When a PK is nice on the forum, many will expect him to be friendly ingame too so he was just warning you not to be to trusty.

I think you just misunderstod it and took it smack talk.
 
K

kendalldcfan

Guest
And as far as NEW goes, I respect the guild and love Shal to death, but I agree with your opinion as to why you don't wanna join, but your opinion won't save you when I catch you out. Sorry. Do me one lil favor though, after i have my way with you and your 4 friends, tell all your friends from Atlantic about me.
FrejaSP I do not know where you are from, but where I am from that is smack talk. I do not know maybe you have a crush on Cheapy or maybe you guys have a UO marriage. That was his first post in this thread, and after that is when is the first attack I made toward anyone. Any Moron can see that. I took it as playful humor and attacked with playful humor. As I stated he does not seem to be upset only you keep defending him.
Ole Cheapy I hope that in the future we can smack talk to each other. I enjoy it as it appears with your post that you do. the following is my ICQ# we can talk smack in ICQ so as not to offend your girlfriend. As I have stated before ALL IN FUN!!!!!!! 394094086
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Patron
Foolish little man. I read it different, maybe there is some kind of slang I don't understand as I'm danish.

I only see him telling you to bring your friends from Atlantic and pay him back for killing you and your 4 friends.

That's very different from you attacking his RL person and telling him this:

You should probably get some sun and take up a hobby. Start with something simple like Marbles or Jacks. Maybe in a few years you can progress to Crickett or Bad mitten. Maybe 10 years from now you will have the social skills to find a female companion. I find it humerous and sad when people refer to themselves as evil lords and emporers in a game. What will you do in a the future when EA pulls the plug on UO. I suggest a good Psychiatrists.
I feel sorry for you
 
A

Alrich

Guest
Talking smack about ingame is perfectly fine

personal RL attacks, read sticky top of forum
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Patron
Trust me I could beat you down on this forum if I was allowed to it, however you are not worth it.

I promise you one thing if I see you ingame, I won't RP, you not worth the afford.
I can't promise I won't danse on your corpes and cut up your armor :lick:
 
K

kendalldcfan

Guest
FrejaSP See now you have a sense of humor. Why did you not act like that to begin with? Come back was nice I give you props for that. I have no hard feelings towward you and I knew my last post would be removed. All you mind yours and I will mind mine. Do not troll my post please. Have a nice day and I look forward to one of us cutting up the others armor, its not like most peeps wear artys around here. You have my ICQ # if you want to find me.
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Patron
I don't need your ICQ but a char name would be nice :D
 
K

kendalldcfan

Guest
FrejaSP I got ur message when I came in from work but it did not add you to my ICQ list. Resend and I will add you. If you want to get your kicks fighting a 10 day old character who's best wep is a di 20 kryss then I have no problem appeaseing you. As I said in thread, not sure if you read from begining, I will gladly own you or cheapy in several months. If you are looking for noob kills to boast about like Wyrm then I can meet you tonite should be on around 7-8 ESP. I will let you res kill me if it helps your ego, but sorry I do not give murder counts. Again this is all in fun not trying to belittle you or anyone else. Resend Icq.
 
Q

Quira

Guest
Welcome to the shard Kendall, I have a feeling you will fit right in :)

Kind regards
 
A

archite666

Guest
Ok this is my last post on this thread after this love me or hate me I do not care. Alrich I do not have a problem with PK's, or do I have a problem being killed in this game. It is what made the game great long ago and the only reason I came to Siege. I did say that I believe someone who runs around killing noobs and boasting is lame, and if that is Role playing then it is lame role playing. FrejaSP I was very polite and thankfull until Cheapy came at me. I am not a role player so I am not going to come back at him with lions and talking about devouring souls. I came at him talking smack like we do in America. It was all in fun, I was not offended by what he said but I am not going to let anyone talk smack to me and not say anything. If he was offended why did he not say something? Petra Fyde the main problem I have with RPers is that they talk a little smack but do not understand when a non role player talks smack to them it is all in fun. If you think this is belittling you should see some of the things said in fun on my Fantasy Football league. BlacK RaiN you seem like a cool player maybe we can get together in game. To all: I would rather you hate me for who I am then like me for who I'm not! Its all in fun I never attack on boards but will always defend.
I retract my previous statement, your alright in my book, icq is 448-196-674 if you need me or any items and such.
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Patron
FrejaSP I got ur message when I came in from work but it did not add you to my ICQ list. Resend and I will add you. If you want to get your kicks fighting a 10 day old character who's best wep is a di 20 kryss then I have no problem appeaseing you. As I said in thread, not sure if you read from begining, I will gladly own you or cheapy in several months. If you are looking for noob kills to boast about like Wyrm then I can meet you tonite should be on around 7-8 ESP. I will let you res kill me if it helps your ego, but sorry I do not give murder counts. Again this is all in fun not trying to belittle you or anyone else. Resend Icq.
Naeh, that's not my style :D
 
Top