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Sigma986
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Returning to the game after many years and was wondering which is better for PvP (or what the pros/cons are) a necro/mage compared to a necro/dexxer. Any tips much appreciated!
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Necro PvP question
- Thread starter Sigma986
- Start date
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at work so im gunna be brief
necro mage is better than a necro dexer (tbh i've never really seen a necro dexer that is all that scary, they always have a massive disadvantage in either template or suit)
alternatively you could scrap necro/ss for mystic/focus and have more utility to your template, depending on your playstyle and what you want to be able to do.
The pros/cons of necro dexxer depend on your template.. you can't make one without sacrificing something important. If an 800 skill cap was available you could run a decent necro warrior, the archer may still work but its always going to have a flaw.
I've run a no parry one, have to disarm a lot and bloodoath non stop. The issue here was dismount and how to handle it, getting ninjitsu on the temp is hard.
I tried a no resist spell one (very popular choice) and these always fail. I have fought a few who were great with damage output and Dots but no resist vs spell plauges, sleeps and mana vampire you are not going to live long. I have never died to this temp in the field, I don't care tho I go into protection against this type of temp and they die shortly afterwards. All about interupption and if you take that away they die fast. Still this is the usual choice when considering this temp and I suppose it can be strong.
My latest was a necro poisoner with swords and ninjitsu, I only ran enough necro to bloodoath and pain spike, it was my best attempt so far I had resist and a little med, but its healing was questionable and I relied on bloodoath very heavily. I ended up scrapping it after a few nights of gate fighting and a horrid despise showing. It was lacking and I ended up getting disarm spammed non stop since they couldn't handle the poison.
The last time I ran a necro archer was about 4 years ago.. it works and is the best choice for a necro dexxer template imo because you don't have to worry about parry and bows hit from a distance along with the spells so you don't chase non stop. I havn't seen one in ages however.. I think the concussion blow nerf really hurt this temp. Mayb doing it as a thrower would work... I don't know. BUt I think the way it used to work was the pain spike made the concussion blow hit hard and then you mix in the dot and a rev and mortal wound and you would kill em quick.
Necro mage has very few cons that I can think of.. they use a mage weapon so disarm kills the defense other then this.. I can't think of much to say negativly about necro mage. It controls area well, it has great damage output still, the recent change to apples makes them stronger and if you can pull off low med or low necro you can come up with some nasty poison or scribe necro temps. The only thing with a necro mage is that it's hard to play, I think it's the hardest mage to master.. im sure someone disagrees but I find mysticsm to be simple and easy, and pure mage is "easier" due to less spells to play with.
I've run a no parry one, have to disarm a lot and bloodoath non stop. The issue here was dismount and how to handle it, getting ninjitsu on the temp is hard.
I tried a no resist spell one (very popular choice) and these always fail. I have fought a few who were great with damage output and Dots but no resist vs spell plauges, sleeps and mana vampire you are not going to live long. I have never died to this temp in the field, I don't care tho I go into protection against this type of temp and they die shortly afterwards. All about interupption and if you take that away they die fast. Still this is the usual choice when considering this temp and I suppose it can be strong.
My latest was a necro poisoner with swords and ninjitsu, I only ran enough necro to bloodoath and pain spike, it was my best attempt so far I had resist and a little med, but its healing was questionable and I relied on bloodoath very heavily. I ended up scrapping it after a few nights of gate fighting and a horrid despise showing. It was lacking and I ended up getting disarm spammed non stop since they couldn't handle the poison.
The last time I ran a necro archer was about 4 years ago.. it works and is the best choice for a necro dexxer template imo because you don't have to worry about parry and bows hit from a distance along with the spells so you don't chase non stop. I havn't seen one in ages however.. I think the concussion blow nerf really hurt this temp. Mayb doing it as a thrower would work... I don't know. BUt I think the way it used to work was the pain spike made the concussion blow hit hard and then you mix in the dot and a rev and mortal wound and you would kill em quick.
Necro mage has very few cons that I can think of.. they use a mage weapon so disarm kills the defense other then this.. I can't think of much to say negativly about necro mage. It controls area well, it has great damage output still, the recent change to apples makes them stronger and if you can pull off low med or low necro you can come up with some nasty poison or scribe necro temps. The only thing with a necro mage is that it's hard to play, I think it's the hardest mage to master.. im sure someone disagrees but I find mysticsm to be simple and easy, and pure mage is "easier" due to less spells to play with.
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Sigma986
Guest
Ok thanks guys, I went with necro/mage. Are there still many people who PvP in Fel Atlantica? Also I got my friend into the game, we're gonna be tag teaming it up a lot. He's wanting to make a good melee PvP char. We're trying to make our chars to support each others for 2v2 PvP. Any advice on what some good builds would be for his char to compliment my necro/mage? He's working on a necro/samurai at the moment, just thought I'd get some opinions though before he gets too skill point comitted 
Anything that can dismount, cross heal, and maybe dp is always a good teammate. Maybe a thrower? Throwers are simple and effective, especially for people who aren't quite as... veteran in pvp.Ok thanks guys, I went with necro/mage. Are there still many people who PvP in Fel Atlantica? Also I got my friend into the game, we're gonna be tag teaming it up a lot. He's wanting to make a good melee PvP char. We're trying to make our chars to support each others for 2v2 PvP. Any advice on what some good builds would be for his char to compliment my necro/mage? He's working on a necro/samurai at the moment, just thought I'd get some opinions though before he gets too skill point comitted
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Sigma986
Guest
Hmm I see, thanks for the replies. Unfortunately my friend is hell-bent on playing a melee character haha. So was wondering what sort of a melee template would be really good as a PvP compliment with my necro/mage? Currently he's building a sampire, good idea? Bad idea? Pros/Cons of this team-template?
sampire is for pvm.. it doesn't pvp well .. at least to my knowledge. Pros are.. as you defend a spawn he can kill the boss. A sampire will also drop tamer pets pretty well. Cons are.. easy death to necro mage combo (almost always going to drop to really low fire resist when corpsed due to vamp form), low mana pool = few specials, no resist spells. I'm sure is more cons then pros..
If he doesn't want to do a thrower, then I would suggest a bushido swords char. I have fought a 2 man tag team on my main server that is a bush swordsman and a mystic mage. They are really strong playing off each other, but I think that has to due with nervestrike and spell plauge working together very well. But a huge bonus that a bush swords guy will give you is the freeze ability from nerve strike (to allow you to get spells off) and riding swipe is the best dismount in game if you fight guys using live pets. Make sure the bush swords char has 120 resist tho, that is what makes them super tough. Another option would be a ninja dexxer, deathstrike does massive damage against runners, and the ability to scout/sneak around is huge at times. Basically tho you want to look for something that will provide dismount and/or large burst damage. Deathstrike is large damage against runners, nervestrike does large damage and freezes and disarms/dismounts provide defense and easy ways to kill. I think a sampire is a poor choice because instead of having the resist spell you have necromancy.. it will be better in pvm obviously but a thrower is the best all around, 250 non stop ai's and mortal/ai off a one handed weapon that never misses.. can't go wrong with that.
If he doesn't want to do a thrower, then I would suggest a bushido swords char. I have fought a 2 man tag team on my main server that is a bush swordsman and a mystic mage. They are really strong playing off each other, but I think that has to due with nervestrike and spell plauge working together very well. But a huge bonus that a bush swords guy will give you is the freeze ability from nerve strike (to allow you to get spells off) and riding swipe is the best dismount in game if you fight guys using live pets. Make sure the bush swords char has 120 resist tho, that is what makes them super tough. Another option would be a ninja dexxer, deathstrike does massive damage against runners, and the ability to scout/sneak around is huge at times. Basically tho you want to look for something that will provide dismount and/or large burst damage. Deathstrike is large damage against runners, nervestrike does large damage and freezes and disarms/dismounts provide defense and easy ways to kill. I think a sampire is a poor choice because instead of having the resist spell you have necromancy.. it will be better in pvm obviously but a thrower is the best all around, 250 non stop ai's and mortal/ai off a one handed weapon that never misses.. can't go wrong with that.
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Sigma986
Guest
Thanks icm! Heres my build for necro/mage:
120 Magic Resist
120 Magery
120 Spirit Speak
120 Meditation
120 Evaluate Intelligence
120 Necromancy
+25 Stats
How does this look for PvP? Also how should I allocate my stat points here? How well will this template do in 1v1 in general, pros/cons. Thanks, all tips much appreciated!
120 Magic Resist
120 Magery
120 Spirit Speak
120 Meditation
120 Evaluate Intelligence
120 Necromancy
+25 Stats
How does this look for PvP? Also how should I allocate my stat points here? How well will this template do in 1v1 in general, pros/cons. Thanks, all tips much appreciated!
6x120 necro mage is the standard, it should work fine I still have several. The only downside is the mage weapon so expect disarm spams.. but you can bloodoath so you should be ok.
As for stats.. that's differnt for each person, I personally go high str for more hit points, and then I run 10 dex w/ a crimson. I don't worry about dex/stamina because of red potions and the wolf summon in a pinch. This varies for each person. So my usual breakdown for stats is 125/10/120. I don't usually carry the str potions on a necro mage.. not sure why but thats how i do it.
As for 1 v 1 that will depend on you personal skill. The hardest fight will be against a mystic in protection, but they changed apples and how curses are removed so it may work out. Mysticism was basically created to nerf necromancy however, and if the guy goes into stone form half of your curses will be resisted. Bloodoath is a standard, people complain about it but it works so use it. I suggest hitting a bloodoath early, most people will apple out of it then hit it again and debuff then blow em up. Explode, Flamestrike, Evil Omen, Pain Spike is the basic combo, I like fireball/magic arrow spam with a strangle against mages. It all varies each fight is differnt and like I said it will depend on your skill and the skill of your opponent.
Pros of a necro are the curses, you force apples, you stack lots of debuffs and you have the potential for large damage combos. Also necro mages kill sampires pretty well. Necros also can throw a rev on a stealther and keep them from hiding. There was a bug that revs got dispelled in guard zone.. not sure if this still exists or not. Strangle is awesome, and EO + poison is almost never resisted. A lot of poison necro mages showed up recently because of this and the ability to do level 5 (lethal) poison threw magery. Mind rot is nice if you know your opponent has limited mana, as in a scribe mystic mage, running 40 med and 120 focus is ok but if you can chunk the mana out faster it hurts, it also makes dexxer specials cost more. Spiritspeak is also very strong, it's the best way to heal threw mortal wound and you can get free heals from dead bodies. EO is the best spell in the game I think.. use it a lot, 120 resist=60 with a quick little spell. And well.. wither.. if you don't know about wither then play a crafter..lol
The biggest con is the mage weapon, you WILL be disarmed.. a lot. Bloodoath helps to counter this but it's not a sure thing and if you get more then 1 person on you bloodoath won't do much. Fencer/archer and ninja dexxers love mages who use mage weapons. If I fight a constant disarm spammer I will go into protection because you really can't do much else. Also deathstrike damage is bloodoath..able.. so I have often taken a deathstrike, bloodoathed and ran to kill the guy. I take 60 but he takes 50 and follow with a 30 dmg pain spike I like the trade off. Have to be carful tho, bloodoath is a risky spell sometimes. Necro mages are also mana hogs.. they use lots of mana and if you arn't carful you could spend a lot of mana debuffing to have the guy apple out of it and then have to debuff all over again. Bloodoath usually forces an apple, and curse is greater then corpse skin 9 out of 10 times. I can't think of much I don't like about necro mages aside from the mage weapon. They are the best all around character I think, pvm great and pvp great. Great for chokes and great open field.. I like them a lot. The hardest thing is they are not easy to play, compared to a mystic mage the necro seems extremely complex. Oh also I find that without potions necro mages can be hard to play.. but I use bloodoath a lot and so I chug heals to counter the extra damage I take. The cure and refresh pots are important but the heals are how I stay alive. I often will be almost redlined when I kill someone and without that heal potion I would've died. Example of hte 60 dmg deathstrike I take while I have bloodoathed the guy. I chug a potion and I gain approx. 30 hit points back. I lost 30 hit points then vs him loosing 80.. assuming he chugs a pot he looses 50 .. still works in you favor, his heal pot only canceled out your pain spike, while your heal pot cut his deathstrike in half. This obviously isn't concrete but it's an example of how heal potions can make bloodoath extremely effective.
I think I rambled enough ..lol good luck with it and just try to adapt to each situation best you can.
As for stats.. that's differnt for each person, I personally go high str for more hit points, and then I run 10 dex w/ a crimson. I don't worry about dex/stamina because of red potions and the wolf summon in a pinch. This varies for each person. So my usual breakdown for stats is 125/10/120. I don't usually carry the str potions on a necro mage.. not sure why but thats how i do it.
As for 1 v 1 that will depend on you personal skill. The hardest fight will be against a mystic in protection, but they changed apples and how curses are removed so it may work out. Mysticism was basically created to nerf necromancy however, and if the guy goes into stone form half of your curses will be resisted. Bloodoath is a standard, people complain about it but it works so use it. I suggest hitting a bloodoath early, most people will apple out of it then hit it again and debuff then blow em up. Explode, Flamestrike, Evil Omen, Pain Spike is the basic combo, I like fireball/magic arrow spam with a strangle against mages. It all varies each fight is differnt and like I said it will depend on your skill and the skill of your opponent.
Pros of a necro are the curses, you force apples, you stack lots of debuffs and you have the potential for large damage combos. Also necro mages kill sampires pretty well. Necros also can throw a rev on a stealther and keep them from hiding. There was a bug that revs got dispelled in guard zone.. not sure if this still exists or not. Strangle is awesome, and EO + poison is almost never resisted. A lot of poison necro mages showed up recently because of this and the ability to do level 5 (lethal) poison threw magery. Mind rot is nice if you know your opponent has limited mana, as in a scribe mystic mage, running 40 med and 120 focus is ok but if you can chunk the mana out faster it hurts, it also makes dexxer specials cost more. Spiritspeak is also very strong, it's the best way to heal threw mortal wound and you can get free heals from dead bodies. EO is the best spell in the game I think.. use it a lot, 120 resist=60 with a quick little spell. And well.. wither.. if you don't know about wither then play a crafter..lol
The biggest con is the mage weapon, you WILL be disarmed.. a lot. Bloodoath helps to counter this but it's not a sure thing and if you get more then 1 person on you bloodoath won't do much. Fencer/archer and ninja dexxers love mages who use mage weapons. If I fight a constant disarm spammer I will go into protection because you really can't do much else. Also deathstrike damage is bloodoath..able.. so I have often taken a deathstrike, bloodoathed and ran to kill the guy. I take 60 but he takes 50 and follow with a 30 dmg pain spike I like the trade off. Have to be carful tho, bloodoath is a risky spell sometimes. Necro mages are also mana hogs.. they use lots of mana and if you arn't carful you could spend a lot of mana debuffing to have the guy apple out of it and then have to debuff all over again. Bloodoath usually forces an apple, and curse is greater then corpse skin 9 out of 10 times. I can't think of much I don't like about necro mages aside from the mage weapon. They are the best all around character I think, pvm great and pvp great. Great for chokes and great open field.. I like them a lot. The hardest thing is they are not easy to play, compared to a mystic mage the necro seems extremely complex. Oh also I find that without potions necro mages can be hard to play.. but I use bloodoath a lot and so I chug heals to counter the extra damage I take. The cure and refresh pots are important but the heals are how I stay alive. I often will be almost redlined when I kill someone and without that heal potion I would've died. Example of hte 60 dmg deathstrike I take while I have bloodoathed the guy. I chug a potion and I gain approx. 30 hit points back. I lost 30 hit points then vs him loosing 80.. assuming he chugs a pot he looses 50 .. still works in you favor, his heal pot only canceled out your pain spike, while your heal pot cut his deathstrike in half. This obviously isn't concrete but it's an example of how heal potions can make bloodoath extremely effective.
I think I rambled enough ..lol good luck with it and just try to adapt to each situation best you can.
S
Sigma986
Guest
Awesome reply!! Still getting my skills up in Tram before i head out to PvP. Can you explain to me why I need to worry about getting disarmed...? And why should I even use a mage weapon instead of a spellbook since I have zero melee combat skills on this template? Thanks!
I find its a common misconception that people assume mages should have no defense. This is horribly wrong, if you don't have wrestling or anatomy then using a spellbook is a bad idea unless you are pvming. The reason is this, a 120 weapon skill character is never going to miss if you have no weapon skill. I think it's a 50/50 chance for a 120 weapon skill char to hit another 120weapon skill char without factoring in any other mods (hci/dci etc.) I'm sure someone has a formula that is much more accurate but the idea holds up, 120 vs 120 is going to cut your chances of being hit in half vs hit every single time with 0 defense.
If you put a mage weapon on that means weapon skill = to magery providing "free" defense as long as that weapon is equipped. Now back before you needed tactics for fencing/swords/macing you would see mages running some sort of offensive weapon skill, since tactics is now needed wrestling or a mage weapon is the standard. For a necro mage it is possible to use wrestling but it hurts the character so the mage weapon became very popular. A mystic mage has more room to play with because 120 focus is needed and that provides mana regen and "eval" for mysticism. Point is you if go out there to pvp with no way to avoid an attack you will be 2-3 hit killed by an archer/thrower and never have a chance to get a spell off. As it is even with weapon skills you will get hit an awful lot. Mage weapons get disarmed because it's the only way to remove that defense, making you easier to hit. It's a good trade off because otherwise you are looking at something like a 40 med necro mage with wrestling, which may work for some people but 120 med and a mage weapon tends to be easier to play. Against another mage a mage weapon will be almost useless, it can be used offensivly but really against a mage it is not needed. The mage weapon is primarily for defense vs dexxers. You can do what you want, some people play exclusivly in protection also which maybe what you have planned, but I highly suggest a mage weapon or some sort of weapon skill otherwise you will not have a good time fighting. Oh also since a mage weapon provides defense you can stack DCI on top of it and be really hard to hit.
Now I suggest looking for a planesword, it will have spell channeling no-1 penalty, then 50 hit spell -20 mage weapon. Some have hit lower attack or what ever. You then use a +15 magery ring and a +5 magery talismen negating the penalty and you get a 120 swords skill with one hand open, and 120 magery. (When you first put the weapon on you will drop to 100 magery, thus putting +20 magery items negates the penalty.) This is extremely powerful and the reason I stressed the point of the disarm is it's the only reliable way to beat this. It is in my opinion the best bet for a necro mage, however I use an awful lot of mana when I play. Some people prefer to use a book and run low med with 120 wrestling. A staff of the magi will work also, it has mage weapon -0 meaning you don't need to make up any penalty, however it is 2 handed and that means you arn't chugging pots easily.