My thoughts in factions

[Goodoljoe]

Ok so im no uber pvper,in fact i have been pvping very little time..So before you ´´elitists`` start yelling names at least first consider my post.I read many posts saying how factions are suposed to be organized PvP and a way for people wanting to PvP to find a relatively easy way in.Lets forget about the get artfiacts run to tramel discussion as this post has nothing to do with that and lets face some truths about Uo this days

-1 The PvP comunity is a VAST MINORITY,of which most have been pvping for years
-2 Of this players,many USE CHEATS (yea newsflash!!!)
-3 On some servers the rankings are so ****ed up you cant ever tell if you gonna keep a rank even if you have 5 points or 500 millions
-4 Theres no real PvP,Yew is PK-hey im bored lets fight central where the SAME PEOPLE goes everyday to die over and over.Champion spawns are dominated always by same red guilds(or faction,or both) using ventrilo and what not,of which most fall under category number 1-

I find many people everyday that say hey how I would love to PvP but they simply will not for reasons listed above.Granted many get artys and go trammel,but they shouldnt have introduced this artifacts in first place.Why would you waste millions and milions when u can get abysmally beter quality artifacts for no cost..(before you send the ´´ OMG TRAMMIE ROFLOLO`` hounds,I DO PVP,thanks`` .At a decay of 1 point day,what,you get 1000 points transfered,that lasts several years of trammelizing,and in any case you can always get more.Theres even ways to exploit guild system and guild factions with non factions to chat each other.As much many people may want to bang my head against a rock for saying this... FACTIONS ARE A MAJOR JOKE IN ALL SENSE OF WORD.

Ok the complain is over,id like to list some posible solutions to ease the situation and invite new people into fellucca.....

-1 Stat loss/point loss .Ok I understand adding some sort of penalty for dying in a ´´war``,
but 15 minutes of being a useless mupet can set way more than one(which can be worked around in some templates due to +skill items,cheats,and what not,dur dur``)
Point loss..come on,10% of your points every time you die...people has better things to do than worry themselves about calculating precisely the times they have to die again to lose their rank and all stuff(specially with all things listed on my points).A videogame is suposed to be a escape from real life crap,not pixelized copy of it.

2-Tramel PvP.Those who want to be in factions CAN PvP anywhere in tramel ruleset facets,without any restriction,but also no stat/point loss.If people wanted to PvP,let them,but do not punish them for it.Make it a real war,nowhere is safe(maybe except certain areas like a bank or whatever) .Maybe just champ areas,i dontk now,a compromise can be reached..

3-Lift the faction restrictions.A guild doesnt necesrily has to be all faction for a member to be factioned.If a person wants to faction for the PvP,let them.

4- Faction stuff. For me quite simple radical solution , A or B.. A- Introduce similar quality PvM items or REMOVE ALLTOGETHER faction items.Very Wowish yea,but thats what UO has been trying to become nowadays(without much success,sadly)

5-Add fell pvp areas like arenas so the ´´non uber elitist cheating l33t im beter than j0 community`` can practice at leisure without major repercussions (I dont count test center as a game feature really,lol..)

6-Fix cheating.I have seen and had people admit on my face they deliberately cheat,Gms do nothing..

I could go on but you get the idea.Those are some of the reason why I think PvP in UO(or non existancy of it),specially factions,are a joke.

Please feel free to put your input here..

Get ze flameproof suits fukov!

 

[Lynk]

1.) Stat Loss / Points - These need to stay. I am the GM of a small guild. Maybe 5 people grouped at the most, usually 2 or 3. We fight large groups. We kill one, they go into stat, we work on the next one. There needs to be a penalty for dying. Points used to mean something, but now with the see-sawing ability they have lost their luster. They should reset points and set them back the way they used to be.

2.) PvP should be allowed in trammel without any exceptions.

3.) That doesn't make any sense.

4.) The items are great. These let people who have never before been able to purchase such high end PvP gear get into the fight with the same level equipment. It also promotes cross shard PvPing. I'm able to fund my guild to build on new shards for chump change.

5.) You can go anywhere you want to 'practice' PvP. It's not like you need a room that says 'Practice room'. Try going in front of your guild house, etc.

6.) I agree, cheating needs to be fixed. But often times people just cry cheats when they are just plain out-played.

 

[Nonel]

I agree with all of what Lynk said...but there is an inherent problem with faction items and the old point system. Giving the better group (that is, the group getting the majority of the kill points) an extra edge. If one group, one decidedly better than the rest of the shard, manages to hold a "monopoly" on points...letting them also have items that are significantly more powerful will only help them keep an iron grip on said "monopoly", and thus remain an unbeatable force.

It is the same reason I don't support giving a power or item-based incentive to the faction that takes the towns.

On GL I've seen every single rise and fall of the perpetual wave that is Factions. AoS and insurance put aside, every "fall" was due to 1 faction remaining dominant for too long.

This is where I start to bang my head against a wall, though. I completely agree with your "#1" point, Lynk, as well as your "#4". The problem is, they really just cant go hand-in-hand.

 

[Goodoljoe]

How about deleting rank system alltogether? No points,only stat loss,people only has to worry about fun and dying as less as posible due to stat loss,but not about how farmed and wrong rankings are.But hey that would mean everyone can use rank 10 without having even to bother to farm their own alts or friends!!..well,make them only usable in felluca or make them have serious drawbacks on tram ruleset.Or with SA so close simply move towards WoW one last step and make two diferent tiers of suits one geared towards PvP other toward PvM (in the long run everyone ends with 2 uber suits of both,ands ends mixing up pieces to achieve best result) .But I dont see how that can make it worse than already is..Well just 2 cents

 

[Nonel]

I suppose. Maybe keep the rank system, remove the rank requirement on the items, make them cost more silver (at least twice as much)...and make factions cross-facet.

 

[Lady Michelle]

1.) Stat Loss / Points - These need to stay. I am the GM of a small guild. Maybe 5 people grouped at the most, usually 2 or 3. We fight large groups. We kill one, they go into stat, we work on the next one. There needs to be a penalty for dying. Points used to mean something, but now with the see-sawing ability they have lost their luster. They should reset points and set them back the way they used to be.

2.) PvP should be allowed in trammel without any exceptions.

3.) That doesn't make any sense.

4.) The items are great. These let people who have never before been able to purchase such high end PvP gear get into the fight with the same level equipment. It also promotes cross shard PvPing. I'm able to fund my guild to build on new shards for chump change.

5.) You can go anywhere you want to 'practice' PvP. It's not like you need a room that says 'Practice room'. Try going in front of your guild house, etc.

6.) I agree, cheating needs to be fixed. But often times people just cry cheats when they are just plain out-played.

#3 I think he means your in a guild that is not a faction guild you want to do factions, but want to stay in your non faction guild and still be able to join factions under that non faction guild.

 

[Goodoljoe]

Yes thats what I meant when i said non faction guild.

 

[Lynk]

#3 I think he means your in a guild that is not a faction guild you want to do factions, but want to stay in your non faction guild and still be able to join factions under that non faction guild.

I understood the what he was trying to get across, but it still doesn't make sense.

 

[Gellor]

in fact i have been pvping very little time..

This alone makes some of your "facts" more than a little suspect... but I will discuss other issues in your post.

-4 Theres no real PvP,Yew is PK-hey im bored lets fight central where the SAME PEOPLE goes everyday to die over and over.Champion spawns are dominated always by same red guilds(or faction,or both) using ventrilo and what not,of which most fall under category number 1-

For those of us who seem to be on the plane of earth, please help us understand what YOUR definition of PvP is? I do agree that Yew gate "PvP" is garbage. I don't participate there beyond bringing a stealth revealer to get stealth archers killed

I find many people everyday that say hey how I would love to PvP but they simply will not for reasons listed above.

Not so much. I find more people not wanting to PvP because:
1) The learning curve is steep and dying a LOT while learning isn't fun.
2) The chance of loosing equipment and not getting it back.

-1 Stat loss/point loss .Ok I understand adding some sort of penalty for dying in a ´´war``,
but 15 minutes of being a useless mupet can set way more than one(which can be worked around in some templates due to +skill items,cheats,and what not,dur dur``)
Point loss..come on,10% of your points every time you die...people has better things to do than worry themselves about calculating precisely the times they have to die again to lose their rank and all stuff(specially with all things listed on my points).A videogame is suposed to be a escape from real life crap,not pixelized copy of it.

That's funny, I know several people who play fairly well through statloss... Does stat loss prevent a mage from going to heal and field duty? Is there a bola skill?

As for the point loss, I see no issue with it. Either be good enough to get enough kills to offset your deaths... or be in a guild that will help you out with points.

2-Tramel PvP.Those who want to be in factions CAN PvP anywhere in tramel ruleset facets,without any restriction,but also no stat/point loss.If people wanted to PvP,let them,but do not punish them for it.Make it a real war,nowhere is safe(maybe except certain areas like a bank or whatever) .Maybe just champ areas,i dontk now,a compromise can be reached..

This would be nice especially to "punish" the Trammel factioneers:loser: But there is an issue with guild composition. Crafters don't PvP too well So without a fix to that, I can't see adding in faction PvP to tram

3-Lift the faction restrictions.A guild doesnt necesrily has to be all faction for a member to be factioned.If a person wants to faction for the PvP,let them.

This I would disagree with. If your guild doesn't want to play factions, start a faction guild associated with your guild. I've seen this happen for 6-7 years now. It is no big deal.

4- Faction stuff. For me quite simple radical solution , A or B.. A- Introduce similar quality PvM items or REMOVE ALLTOGETHER faction items.Very Wowish yea,but thats what UO has been trying to become nowadays(without much success,sadly)

Uh... how about no to "no-risk uber PvM items". Too late to remove the items... if they did, too many people would be screwed out of PvP

6-Fix cheating.I have seen and had people admit on my face they deliberately cheat,Gms do nothing..

GMs and EA can't do anything now with regards to cheating. There simply are too many people(PvP or otherwise) that are cheating that if they lost all those subscriptions, UO would be closed down. There is NO chance UO would gain as many subscriptions back as they would lose over heavy handed tactics concerning cheating.

Take this as the opinion of a player who HAS been PvPing for years and gotten involved in factions seriously only in recent months.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Cheating has no place in the game and if it can be cut out of UO, all the better. People that don't cheat will agree, and people that cheat but can pvp will agree because both groups actually become better with the elimination of cheats. Its only people who can't pvp and use cheats to "compete" that will cry and leave. UO and the game would be better served to let them go.

Its a misconception you have to cheat to compete in pvp and most people that tell you you have to cheat will never be as good as the players that learn to play without the crutches.

-Lore

 

[Gellor]

Cheating has no place in the game and if it can be cut out of UO, all the better.

Good in theory... wrong in practice. If EA took a heavy handed approach, they would lose way more subscriptions than they would EVER gain. Thus, UO would close for good.

EA knows this for fact thus they don't do anything except for their once every two year "mass banning" extravaganza so people believe they are doing something

Hell, EA can't even do two basic principles of client/server programming:
1) Always check your data files when you have no physical control over them. IE if a graphic file has a stump hack, the game doesn't run.
2) NEVER trust information coming from a computer you have NO control over. IE never trust what the client is sending you... if they would follow this, there would be NO thing as speed hackers.

UO and the game would be better served to let them go.

I agree, the game could be better if there were no cheaters. But as mentioned above, if UO loses the subscriptions of all the cheaters, UO is gone.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

I think we agree to some extent... If all the people that cheat left UO, it would seriously impact the size of the playing population, particularly the pvp population.

However I disagree that if they prevented most if not all the cheats (prob impossible but hypothetically) then all the people cheating would simply leave the game. I think only a small percentage would quite the game outright if cheating was eliminated.

-Lore

 

[GFY]

Good in theory... wrong in practice. If EA took a heavy handed approach, they would lose way more subscriptions than they would EVER gain. Thus, UO would close for good.

EA knows this for fact thus they don't do anything except for their once every two year "mass banning" extravaganza so people believe they are doing something

Hell, EA can't even do two basic principles of client/server programming:
1) Always check your data files when you have no physical control over them. IE if a graphic file has a stump hack, the game doesn't run.
2) NEVER trust information coming from a computer you have NO control over. IE never trust what the client is sending you... if they would follow this, there would be NO thing as speed hackers.



I agree, the game could be better if there were no cheaters. But as mentioned above, if UO loses the subscriptions of all the cheaters, UO is gone.

You can't be serious. I go to Fellucca everyday and I see empty plots of land that were houses a day or 2 ago. NO ONE is rushing to put up new houses in their place either. Pvp in uo is dead to anyone that doesn't cheat, hack, and/or script. However these people are such a small minority that uo wouldn't miss a beat if they kicked them out to go find another game to cheat at. I also agree that there are very skilled players that can play at a high level without cheating, (I know some of them) but they have become so sick of the players that do cheat that they have left uo or gone on hiatus hoping that UO will one day wake up and get things right. One of my above mentioned friends logged into uo recently and stopped by Yew gate to check the state of pvp in uo. He stayed about an hour and saw enough hacker descriptors that he said nothing has changed and has not been back since.

The natural progression of a game like uo is to learn the game, learn how to kill all them monsters, then learn pvp. In uo however there's nothing to do after killing monsters because of the cheating, & hacking. Honest player well... they go play WOW.

 

[Gellor]

You can't be serious. I go to Fellucca everyday and I see empty plots of land that were houses a day or 2 ago. NO ONE is rushing to put up new houses in their place either.

ROFL... okay... so house placing in Fel has something to do with the state of PvP. RIGHT *wink**wink* Couldn't be because of the number of TRAMMEL housing spots opening up at the same time. Couldn't be because every time EA opens a new facet, there are another 5000 house spots to place so people drop their small houses to get an 18x18.

Pvp in uo is dead to anyone that doesn't cheat, hack, and/or script.

I must have missed that memo as have a lot of people I know. I may not keep up with the pod racers but I certainly don't die to them. And oh my god... all that while being cheat, hack, and/or script free OTOH, I built a survival template. You know... adapt to what the game throws at you.

However these people are such a small minority that uo wouldn't miss a beat if they kicked them out to go find another game to cheat at.

If you were ONLY banning PvPers, then that might hold water. However, there are MANY more TRAMY players using the unmentionable utilities than PvPers. Go look in heartwood... go check out miners... go check out other aspects of the game. Yup, you will find the unmentionables in use.

The natural progression of a game like uo is to learn the game, learn how to kill all them monsters, then learn pvp. In uo however there's nothing to do after killing monsters because of the cheating, & hacking. Honest player well... they go play WOW.

Well, hell... again, nobody has sent out that memo.

I know more people quitting UO over EA's inability to fix their own screw ups than anything. [EA internal memo]Yup, we JUST added in a system and it is broke... leave it in for 6 months and then forget about it.[/EA internal memo] I could go ramble on about ALL the things they took forever to fix if at all EVEN after getting detailed descriptions on how to reproduce the bugs. Hell, look at greater dragons in PvP. Simple fix of capping damage but the devs are incapable of even doing that

 

[Berethrain]

Originally Posted by Goodoljoe
4- Faction stuff. For me quite simple radical solution , A or B.. A- Introduce similar quality PvM items or REMOVE ALLTOGETHER faction items.Very Wowish yea,but thats what UO has been trying to become nowadays(without much success,sadly)

Without removing these items, I think Faction Items should be Cursed.

 

[Cardell]

Without removing these items, I think Faction Items should be Cursed.

I think they should be faction blessed... Decay in 30 days.. have to buy new ones.. The silver cost should be 10x what it is as well.

This will make more ppl have to farm silver.. more places to get fights n stuffz.

 

[Berethrain]

Not a bad idea, but now that I think about it, they should just make them like the old crafted faction armor and have it decay in one week.

 

[Cardell]

Not a bad idea, but now that I think about it, they should just make them like the old crafted faction armor and have it decay in one week.

The old system was 30 days. Not 1 week. 1 month. And they usually broke before then if you were a more dedicated pvper as most dexers were back then.

 

[Berethrain]

I don't remember it being that long, but you could be right.

 

[Nonel]

I think you're both wrong. It was 3 weeks.

 

[Cardell]

I think you're both wrong. It was 3 weeks.

Nonel and his Info hax. I'm sick of it. I quit again.

 

[Kestrall]

Hey ant do you guys still have minax chars on gl and if u do any guarding r raiding going on?

 

[Lynk]

I think they should be faction blessed... Decay in 30 days.. have to buy new ones.. The silver cost should be 10x what it is as well.

This will make more ppl have to farm silver.. more places to get fights n stuffz.

I kind of like this idea. I'd change it slightly though. I'd make faction artifacts craftable. In order to craft them you have to have the recipe (gotten from faction monsters) and the same amount of silver you do now. Your faction also has to control the town for you to be able to craft the faction artifacts.

I'm not opposed to putting a time limit on them and having em go poof. This would give people a reason to guard cities.

 

[Cardell]

I kind of like this idea. I'd change it slightly though. I'd make faction artifacts craftable. In order to craft them you have to have the recipe (gotten from faction monsters) and the same amount of silver you do now. Your faction also has to control the town for you to be able to craft the faction artifacts.

I'm not opposed to putting a time limit on them and having em go poof. This would give people a reason to guard cities.

Of course this only works if the point system is reverted and fixed correctly, as well as the ranks.

 

[Gellor]

I kind of like this idea. I'd change it slightly though. I'd make faction artifacts craftable. In order to craft them you have to have the recipe (gotten from faction monsters) and the same amount of silver you do now. Your faction also has to control the town for you to be able to craft the faction artifacts.

I'm not opposed to putting a time limit on them and having em go poof. This would give people a reason to guard cities.

I REALLY like this idea At least the basic idea of it. Probably needs some fleshing out.

Maybe an addition of the crafter has to craft it in one of HIS faction controlled towns

Maybe not a time limit but a lower durability to them... something that basically ends up if you PvM a ton, you lose them quickly. If you PvP a ton, you lose the somewhat fast. And if you PvP a little, you can hang onto them for a long while(1-2 months)

 

[Cardell]

Hey ant do you guys still have minax chars on gl and if u do any guarding r raiding going on?

Im just ggetting back into it, but I dont know how dedicated i can be. I got a lot of **** going on.

 

[Lynk]

Of course this only works if the point system is reverted and fixed correctly, as well as the ranks.

If they went this route I would do rank differently.

I'd say go back to the old rank system.. rank determines how many faction items you could wear. One arty per rank level. CL unlimited.

 

[Cardell]

Hey ant do you guys still have minax chars on gl and if u do any guarding r raiding going on?

Im just ggetting back into it, but I dont know how dedicated i can be. I got a lot of **** going on.

Good hearing from you tho man. Ill see u around in game.

 

[Cardell]

If they went this route I would do rank differently.

I'd say go back to the old rank system.. rank determines how many faction items you could wear. One arty per rank level. CL unlimited.

Either way, the ranks have to work correctly.

 

[Berethrain]

Does anyone actually remember when the ranks were fixed?

 

[Cardell]

Does anyone actually remember when the ranks were fixed?

If anyone tells u they do, their lying. Because I was rank 5 bugged in Minax the first week of factions.

 

[Berethrain]

I don't remember them ever being correct either.

 

[Saleena]

The ranks have been messed up since I started factions, I cant recall a time they were fixed.

 

[Alezi]

Uh, lets see.

You whine about Yew gate PvP and at the same time you whine about champ spawn PvP when some ORGANIZED PvP guild comes in, kicks your ass and takes the scrolls? What is preventing you and your guild from organizing? Can't be THAT difficult to use UOAM and a VoIP program?

Are you seriously suggesting that stat & point loss should be removed? Would you like your suit blessed as well so that you don't lose any insurance money when you die? Oh, and stock must be blessed as well, with infinite charges. Imagine how horrible it would be if you'd have to stock those expensive potions! Also, what is this cheat that circumvents stat loss? The only one I can think about is speedhack which allows you to zoom off at the speed of light.

Faction artifacts. Risk vs. Reward. If you're doing a spawn on a blue and you die you won't become a "useless muppet". The extra mods faction artifacts have is just an extra incentive to get players to join factions. Were they copies of their real counterparts would suffice as well, but the extra mods really add up alot. If factions wouldn't exist PvP would just be a zergfest with no repercussions when you kill or when you die.

 

[Berethrain]

Are you seriously suggesting that stat & point loss should be removed? Would you like your suit blessed as well so that you don't lose any insurance money when you die? Oh, and stock must be blessed as well, with infinite charges.

Don't let the carebears see this. They'll think it's a good idea.

If factions wouldn't exist PvP would just be a zergfest with no repercussions when you kill or when you die.

I agree, people who don't pvp in factions are just wannabees.

 

[watchertoo]

*sneaks up and pushes Bere off his horse*

 

[Berethrain]

 

[Altec]

The faction items do help a lot of people that do not have the gold to spend or the real cash to spend on a mage suit and stuff like that but i think that when it tram u have no rank kind of like it used to be in fel heartwood if u got dismounted in there u could not remount because u had a rank of 0. So when u go to tram all ur faction items are dropped to ur pack.

 

[Goodoljoe]

Think some people in this thread has some self-contained rage that has to deal with before moving on with other things

 

[Cardell]

Think some people in this thread has some self-contained rage that has to deal with before moving on with other things

Knowing most of the people in this thread I can confirm this. Welcome to the faction community.