Its time for a much needed change to the facets

[Smoot]

Oh god, are you guys trying to compare PVP WoW servers, with their faction split and complete lack of death penalty or looting, to oldschool UO? There's a market for the sort of toothless PVP WoW provides, but oldschool full-loot UO gankage is dead, buried, and largely forgotten.

this thread was never about bringing back full loot, it was about market / desirability of pvp zones. Yes, i think wow is a very good comparison (i agree about the faction difference but both groups are usually mixed anyways in all but starter zones) There is no more consequence to death in UO than wow, if you really want to get down to it, theres More consequence in wow (repair costs from a death, tho still insignificant, are generally greater than insurance costs in UO)

I agree, the boat has long since sailed in UO. changes to the game, and the target market decided by the devs has destroyed any viable playerbase that might have been left that would enjoy more pvp zones.

this whole thread is obviously pretty worthless, I play UO to deco my house and dress my character up in rares and look at pixel crack. If i wanted pvp in this game i wouldnt be playing the official servers. In the state UO is in now there are much better games for pvp. There is just not enough market to rationalize more pvp zones.

 

[The Zog historian]

im not talking about taxes or anything else in real life, im talking about video games terms. If you dont use common video game terminology, i don't see how anyone could have a logical conversation with you about video games.

There are words like "consensual" and "voluntary" that have meanings in any world. If you want to continue misusing video game terminology, it's no wonder it's impossible for me to illustrate logical points with you — in anything. The old parody song "Going to Trammel," which must be nearing 15 years old, had it half-wrong. Trammel is not just "consent PvP," because Felucca is too. By being there, you consent to being attacked. By being on certain WoW servers, you consent to being attacked.

And yet you'll still cite "millions," ignoring the point that they're still a minority. Players just don't want that kind of "experience." With your misuse of words, no doubt you think that if only one person is selling a certain item, a buyer was "forced" to pay the price?

 

[The Zog historian]

Give it up man,dense is dense and a troll is a troll.
Slap em on ignore like a few others have in this thread and be done with all his full page, multi quote reply gibberish. He`s more concerned with him being right (even when he`s not) than anything you or anyone else has to say and he`ll keep rambling on to prove it.

Watch!

What an expected non-reply from you, as always. You mean you aren't going to send me any more profanity-filled PMs, then put me on ignore to prevent a reply?

You can shut up anytime now, troll. Go back to being part of the free riders on your shard.

It's now Thursday. For six days you have completely ignored simple facts and logic that show you to be utterly wrong, but go stick your head back in the sand.

On that you can not be more wrong in your assumption. Hate to break it to you but....They pretty much ALL have superior content!

You're spewing nonsense after nonsense. If the content is so superior, then why do any players still pay for official UO subscriptions? And why are you complaining on a forum for EA's UO shards, when you should be sticking to forums for a free shard you cherish so much?

Also they are F2P. Just yesterday I dropped $20 on my free game. See how that works? You have it way backward.

As I wrote in my previous reply, enough of us are still willing to pay a premium for a product that we, so far, still prefer to alternatives. Others like you are so cheap that you'll complain about UO instead of paying for subscriptions that, in aggregate, could have given the game more development funding.

You may claim to have paid $20 to a non-EA shard, but how many do that regularly? They have a huge problem called the free rider. You should look that up.

Do you honestly think people are attracted to freeshards just cause their free? LOL I`m sorry but wow. If that were the case there wouldn`t be 100`s of them trying to get just the right content to A. attract people and B. To keep people,why do they want people to play their "free" game? So they spend money on things available in that free game. Since their not saddled with a monthly payment to play said game..... they are likely to spend more on said game.

Your one sentence basically invalidated everything you say about freeshards imo because it shows you know nothing about them.

Actually, you're the one invalidating anything you could possibly know about simple business and economics, because you don't realize that if free shards charged what EA did, there would be far fewer people playing. Go ahead, tell us what the populations would be at $5 or $10 or $20 per month. Is the content really so superior, or is the major factor that of price?

Free shard operators have a love of the game I could never have, making what wouldn't be much money for what it takes, but creating UO in their vision and the satisfaction of a playerbase seems to be worth it. In a way it's similar to large-scale development of major open source software.

But I and others have routinely debunked any F2P models as ultimately bringing in less revenue than present. It would be a scripter's dream to pay just $5 per account that don't need houses. Meanwhile, other players would cut back on their accounts.

The best thing Broadsword devs could do is open the door to some 3rd part programs that make their product even better. The works been done,capitalize on it.

And what "3rd part programs" are you talking about? Scripting? The UOA equivalents that are illegal for a reason?

Also they seriously need to go to a F2P model,maybe giving current vets the option to continue payin a monthly and thus seeing no change in service. F2P is the way of future gaming,if you have any doubts you should do some googling. There are alot of F2P games with enormous populations.

I have in fact played a lot of F2P and paid a lot. I know what I'm talking about, but you don't since you think it's something applicable to UO. F2P is about getting players to pay to win based on the human tendency for gratification sooner rather than later, coming out with minor new content that requires additional purchases of game currency for RL money, then coming out with an entirely new game (and non-transferable game currency). It does not lend itself at all to a game of UO's longevity.

F2P could do nothing but help Broadsword UO and I for one would come back in a heart beat....... and it wouldn`t be "just cause its free" I`m sure alot more would come back as well. Why wouldn`t they?

Now why would "current vets" be given a price break unless your F2P model will be significantly more expensive than a flat rate? And why would people return to UO or newcomers try the game if it's going to cost more than current players? What would happen is that the game would never see anyone new at all, thus revenues could only continue declining as long-timers quit for whatever reasons. With your reasoning, you'd better not try to open your own business.

 

[The Zog historian]

this thread was never about bringing back full loot, it was about market / desirability of pvp zones. Yes, i think wow is a very good comparison (i agree about the faction difference but both groups are usually mixed anyways in all but starter zones) There is no more consequence to death in UO than wow, if you really want to get down to it, theres More consequence in wow (repair costs from a death, tho still insignificant, are generally greater than insurance costs in UO)

I agree, the boat has long since sailed in UO. changes to the game, and the target market decided by the devs has destroyed any viable playerbase that might have been left that would enjoy more pvp zones.

this whole thread is obviously pretty worthless, I play UO to deco my house and dress my character up in rares and look at pixel crack. If i wanted pvp in this game i wouldnt be playing the official servers. In the state UO is in now there are much better games for pvp. There is just not enough market to rationalize more pvp zones.

You're still confusing "PvP" with "PKing." Old UO was not an open "PvP" world, and it was going to die if it didn't follow the ways of EQ and future competitors. For all the claims that "Trammel killed UO," the game reached its peak with all the "Trammies" able to enjoy themselves.

There's plenty of PvP in current UO if you look around, mainly if you're willing to transfer a character or two to Atlantic. Did you ever try starting an Oaks with a couple of friends? If you don't get any visitors, now that's a quiet shard.

 

[Hannes Erich]

Should I skip past Zog and Smoot's posts, is there much substance in them? I felt like I was really involved in this discussion; now I'm wondering if it's worth it to catch up. I hate, hate, hate it when two people commandeer what could have been a productive discussion, filled with ideas, complaints, and suggestions, for their own selfish tit-for-tat. If you really buy your own logic, then say your fracking piece and let it stand, knuckleheads. This is almost as bad as if the entire thread had simply been locked. Either way, the discussion's value is eroded. By you. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the new Stratics doesn't make everyone suffer a lock because of a few bad apples; but in discussions elsewhere that I moderate, both of you would have had a warning many posts back. If Stratics won't clean up your act, please just grow up and let the rest of us enjoy a mature discussion. Your points look less defensible and credible every time you have to repeat and whine about them. Forum etiquette 101.

 

[Hannes Erich]

For those who've read my previous posts in this thread, I'm going to take my foot out of my mouth on one aspect of my complaints. For those of you living under a rock the past couple days, Ultima Online is releasing a new expansion!!! Congratulations, Broadsword. Yes, I'm eating some of my words right now, and I fully deserve it. From what you've said about Time of Legends so far, it does sound like you've still got innovation running through your veins, and I'm very much looking forward to it. I said I'd never become an old curmudgeon about UO; well, your studio and others have strained me a lot over the years. But I do actually prefer it when you give me reasons to sing your praises. Here's hoping there's more of that in the future!

In other PvP sandbox related news, the eternally-in-beta (but still awesome) Linkrealms has temporarily made its beta closed while they work toward releasing an entirely new PvP server and expansion, which they're calling the Phoenix Server. I got an invite to that; maybe I'll check it out.

Over the past months, we have been working hard to create a new Linkrealms experience for you: Phoenix. The Phoenix server is dedicated to player-vs-player gameplay that harks back to the roots of classic online role-playing games, where your choices mattered, no reward could be obtained without risk, and reputation was earned on the battlefield rather than leaderboards!

- Open PvP & Looting - Become a ferocious killer or a honorable paladin, forge bonds with new friends and watch out for rival groups!
- A New World! - Explore a new, constantly expanding world map with new environments, dungeons, towns and points of interest.
- Game Balancing - Master all new game mechanics, ranging from item properties, crafting, magical and melee combat.
- Constant Support - Linkrealms now has an expanded development team and customer support, with guaranteed game updates!​

Here's the funny thing about Linkrealms. It was made by a small, but passionate team, who spent so long polishing the game that it started to become dated while in development. You've probably never heard of it, but it enjoys a playerbase that pays the studio's bills. It doesn't enjoy as many systems as UO (to be fair, what MMO does?), but some of its comparative systems are better. Customizable housing, for instance---you don't just get a house plot, you get acres on which to build multiple houses, a scary graveyard, enchanted forest, customize PvP, whatever. Its graphics and animations are better and dungeon crawls feel more visceral (sweet boss monsters).

You probably won't stop playing UO, but once you've played Linkrealms, you might take some long vacations. In 17 years of MMO gaming, it has long sat firmly at the top of my list of hidden gems.

​

 

[Ultimaholic]

For those who've read my previous posts in this thread, I'm going to take my foot out of my mouth on one aspect of my complaints. For those of you living under a rock the past couple days, Ultima Online is releasing a new expansion!!! Congratulations, Broadsword. Yes, I'm eating some of my words right now, and I fully deserve it. From what you've said about Time of Legends so far, it does sound like you've still got innovation running through your veins, and I'm very much looking forward to it. I said I'd never become an old curmudgeon about UO; well, your studio and others have strained me a lot over the years. But I do actually prefer it when you give me reasons to sing your praises. Here's hoping there's more of that in the future!

In other PvP sandbox related news, the eternally-in-beta (but still awesome) Linkrealms has temporarily made its beta closed while they work toward releasing an entirely new PvP server and expansion, which they're calling the Phoenix Server. I got an invite to that; maybe I'll check it out.

Over the past months, we have been working hard to create a new Linkrealms experience for you: Phoenix. The Phoenix server is dedicated to player-vs-player gameplay that harks back to the roots of classic online role-playing games, where your choices mattered, no reward could be obtained without risk, and reputation was earned on the battlefield rather than leaderboards!

- Open PvP & Looting - Become a ferocious killer or a honorable paladin, forge bonds with new friends and watch out for rival groups!
- A New World! - Explore a new, constantly expanding world map with new environments, dungeons, towns and points of interest.
- Game Balancing - Master all new game mechanics, ranging from item properties, crafting, magical and melee combat.
- Constant Support - Linkrealms now has an expanded development team and customer support, with guaranteed game updates!​

Here's the funny thing about Linkrealms. It was made by a small, but passionate team, who spent so long polishing the game that it started to become dated while in development. You've probably never heard of it, but it enjoys a playerbase that pays the studio's bills. It doesn't enjoy as many systems as UO (to be fair, what MMO does?), but some of its comparative systems are better. Customizable housing, for instance---you don't just get a house plot, you get acres on which to build multiple houses, a scary graveyard, enchanted forest, customize PvP, whatever. Its graphics and animations are better and dungeon crawls feel more visceral (sweet boss monsters).

You probably won't stop playing UO, but once you've played Linkrealms, you might take some long vacations. In 17 years of MMO gaming, it has long sat firmly at the top of my list of hidden gems.

​

Dat Linkrealms looks awesome,definitely gonna be checkin that out. Got me into googling Sandbox this and that and am surprised at some of the stuff thats out there. Adding a couple to my playlist now

 

[Hannes Erich]

I'm sure you know about Shards Online too, but if not check it out.

Oh and a protip: I might vacation in LinkRealms, but a lot of its players live there. Not everybody knows about them, but the whole industry knows about us. After several years of players coming in and comparing it to UO this, UO that, it actually really annoys many of them (yes, even when you're complimenting their game). Just forewarning you.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

The first few years of UO will never come back, even if you make a game exactly like the first couple years of UO. Nobody was going to pay money to be PK fodder, not once there was a choice. Not in numbers big enough to matter to a commercial MMO. If they didn't leave for Tram, they'd have left for EverQuest or whatever. It was always going to boil down to five guys yelling at Yew Gate.

Five guys yelling at Yew gate, for 5 minutes. Followed by 2 hours in general chat, calling each other cheats (or worse), and making excuses why they died!

 

[The Zog historian]

Is Zog still bleating on like a 12 year old with no social skills and a penchant for blind arrogance ? You should try the ignore function. Its blissful.

Is Craftsman making more non-reply replies because I repeatedly schooled him on simple points of facts? Why, yes he is.

You're describing only yourself, troll.

 

[Shady Ghost]

This thread needs more

 

[The Craftsman]

I think that some of the folk posting in this thread have had far too much beer already.

 

[AlexVII]

Just as long as it isnt beer that is blamed. Its their inability to use healthy boundaries.

While I mention boundaries, lets continue on about Tram being the worst thing to come to UO. While youre "blaming" ...STOP. It wasnt Tram that was the problem for loss of accounts, it was the lack of original boundary in game play/mechanics. Programming. When they started NERFing, if I have the use of the term correct, (blacksmithy for just one) is when I saw the exodus from UO begin. When was that? 2002 that the lack of holding to game "originality" began.?
(Yes, it was lost truly when Garriot was duped out of UO2.) When the wet behind the ear, over paid, under experienced people (EA)were allowed to change the way the game was structured. For money(only) instead of standard/principle/originality.
Though I personally, wasnt there in the very beginning, "I" see NO one standing and "keeping the flame". Someone in authority that makes the calls, that makes a difference, really. It would take a team with one goal.

 

[Silent Singer]

*raises Necromantic brow at this thread resurrection*