[Parry] Is Parry Broken?

[GalenKnighthawke]

I remember reading some time ago that the conventional wisdom was that Parry, without Bushido, was broken. Meaning that good old-fashioned shield Parrying did not work as often as it should or as well as it should, per the math.

However I read about people either using or planning to use non-Bushido Parry Warrior, with shield, templates. (For example in the 120 Chiv thread.)

Is Parry not broken? Was it ever?

My own experiences have been mixed, shall we say. (I have some characters with Parry, some without, and sometimes I think I notice a difference and sometimes I don't.)

-Galen's player

 

[Obsidian]

Parry is not broken. In the past there were more reasons to use parry with bushido and not use a shield or to keep a hand free for pots/healing stone. Shields increased in viability with reforging and the new loot system. I've considered building a char with a shield, but still seem to run bush/parry in combo and go shieldless.

 

[Logrus]

Don't think parry has ever been broken (outside of with throwing weapons). But I believe that parry chance is calculated only on hits so its not effectively making you get hit less, but rather giving you a chance to take 0 damage from the hits you do take. In those cases if you figure you have a 50% chance to get hit, and a 30% parry chance you dont have 80% chance to avoid getting hit but rather 50% + 30% of 50%, so 65%.

Hope I didnt make it more confusing, but it basically boils down to, that since parry is ignoring a % of hits that you do take, the more you get hit, the more you parry, and the less you get hit the less you parry.

So if you go and overcap DCI parry wouldn't be providing a huge bonus to your being hit. If you say only went for HCI on your suit, and maxed parry, you be parrying more often, because you're being hit more often. Same % just a large base to factor on.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Thank you both.

Yep I was aware it was a second line of defense, but I guess I figured most were aware of that, and hence it couldn't possibly be the source of the occasional arguments that it was broken

But now that I think about it....That's actually rather likely to be the source of those fears.

I'm debating now if my one character with it is going to keep it.

Thanks again!

-Galen's player

 

[Logrus]

Thank you both.

Yep I was aware it was a second line of defense, but I guess I figured most were aware of that, and hence it couldn't possibly be the source of the occasional arguments that it was broken

But now that I think about it....That's actually rather likely to be the source of those fears.

I'm debating now if my one character with it is going to keep it.

Thanks again!

-Galen's player

On one hand you could compare it to trading off gear for skill. DCI on gear can be lowered by HLD, or certain special moves, and abilities, but since parry is calculated after hit and there's no way to lower someone's parry chance its like a skill based, unmodifiable defense.

Actually after this discussion I'm going to start testing how well I fare putting minimal DCI, and running 120 parry. I'm curious about the results, not to mention parry endures better when disarmed than DCI.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

On one hand you could compare it to trading off gear for skill. DCI on gear can be lowered by HLD, or certain special moves, and abilities, but since parry is calculated after hit and there's no way to lower someone's parry chance its like a skill based, unmodifiable defense.

Actually after this discussion I'm going to start testing how well I fare putting minimal DCI, and running 120 parry. I'm curious about the results, not to mention parry endures better when disarmed than DCI.

Let us know how that goes.

-Gaeln's player

 

[Logrus]

Had hoped to test that this week, but I got loaded down at work and at the same time taking on some House Projects. Hopefully I'll be able to get to this next week. I think I'm just gonna test it out on prod for an accurate result.

 

[Logrus]

May be busy again this weekend, hopefully I can get some time to test stuff out. This not knowing is killing me.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

May be busy again this weekend, hopefully I can get some time to test stuff out. This not knowing is killing me.

Test it while you test the new Publish!
lol
-Galen's player

 

[ShadowTrauma]

I must admit I too am curious, I have put quite a bit of thought into this recently, and it would definately change the types of suits you could create for said characters.

120 skill, 45 hci vs 120 skill, 45 dci = 50% chance to be hit, a 35-40% chance of parrying.
120 skill, 45 hci vs 120 skill, 20 dci = 60% chance to be hit, a 35-40% chance of parrying. *Typical HLD scenario*
120 skill, 45 hci vs 120 skill, 0 dci = 72% chance to be hit, a 35-40% chance of parrying. More suit flexibility and in theory a greater chance at parries.

Will the real life data make the setup feasible? Thats the question. I would worry that those extra hits if not parried would end up being too excessive, however the idea is extremely intriguing.

A little more food for thought.
Hit lower defense now scales 55% of the players Max Defense Chance Increase. The default max defense chance increase of 45 has a -25 defense penalty. A max defense chance increase cap of 95 has a -52 defense penalty. - If I am reading this correctly our proposed 0 dci parry build would have no further dci loss from the new HLD function.

 

[Logrus]

I didnt check the numbers but say that 72% hit chance with a 35% chance to parry gets reduced to a 46% hit chance. Which is better than 120 /45 vs 120/45. And more importantly its HLD proof.

120/45 vs 120/45 with 35% chance to parry is a 50% hit chance reduced to 32.5% So that whole 45 DCI could be spent on other properties.

It would also protect on the additional DCI lowering abilities.

 

[NuSair]

In terms of PVM and fighting things with >120 skill- it seems that if you had to chose between parry and DCI that you'd want parry @120. Or, am I missing something?

So- out of 100 swings
1- hit 50 times, parry 20 of those hits (total 30 hits)
2- hit 60 times, parry 24 of those hits (total 36 hits)
3- hit 72 times, parry 29 of those hits (total 43 hits)

Right?

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I didnt check the numbers but say that 72% hit chance with a 35% chance to parry gets reduced to a 46% hit chance. Which is better than 120 /45 vs 120/45. And more importantly its HLD proof.

120/45 vs 120/45 with 35% chance to parry is a 50% hit chance reduced to 32.5% So that whole 45 DCI could be spent on other properties.

It would also protect on the additional DCI lowering abilities.

Interesting; thank you.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

In terms of PVM and fighting things with >120 skill- it seems that if you had to chose between parry and DCI that you'd want parry @120.

That's how I read his post.

-Galen's player