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Insane Vendor Fees Are Still Killing The Shards
- Thread starter Capt. Lucky
- Start date
- Watchers 7
I'd imagine probably 95% of players are not taking more than a month or two to either sell or remove an item.It may be bought then after 3,6,9,12 month or later. We just want to provide as many items on our shards as possible. Atm returning players wonder why there arent many items for sale and may leave the shard or even the game. We got most of the items you can get in the game, but it doesnt make sense to put them on vendors on small shards. Then everyone would have to come to Drachenfels cause I have the cheapest prices most of the time.
If you leave an item in for sale for a year that's self induced.
I've yet to see a reasonable argument to nerf vendor fees outside of low value items.
Lack of items is a symptom of low population. Not the other way around.People do buy however on the small shards it is just slower. Like I said, I sell on both Atlantic and my home shard. I generally sell cheaper on my home shard due to the slower sales, more for reducing the impact of vendor fees than for the fact that people won't pay the full retail price.
The OP was suggesting that the fees were killing small shards, and they are, due to the slower sales. I don't agree with no fees, just a more balanced system where the fee is based on the amount of the item you are selling rather than the time it takes to sell. I might not sell a plant on my home shard for 3 months, then I go one day to find that the plant vendor has sold out as someone had decided to redeco. It is the same for imbuing ingredients, may not sell any for over a week, but then all 'essence of order' sells out as someone decides to do imbuing and needs it. If I have stuff that after 6 months I have sold NONE of then I don't continue to stock it. However I tend not to stock stuff that doesn't sell, it just takes a lot longer to sell it on my home shard than on Atlantic. The longer something takes to sell the more vendor fees you pay, so not only do you sell stuff cheaper anyways, you also pay more in fees. If they turned vendor fees off (not that that is what I recommend or think would happen) and the stuff just sits there is actually NOT a problem as it isn't sending you broke.
I sell rune books on Atlantic for 5k ea, I sell them on Oceania for 5k ea. I will sell 30 books on Atlantic in a week, and 30 books on Oceania in perhaps 2 months. It doesn't matter if I drop the price of books on Oceania to 500gps I would still sell the same amount as it is not the price but the demand that determines the 'sale'. The only difference is the profit on atlantic is 143,700 (30 runebooks x 5k ea incurs 30 x 30gps x 7 days = 6,300 total fees), to the profit on Oceania is 96,000, ( 30 runebooks x 5k ea incurs 30 x 30 gps x 60days = 54,000) the only difference being the time they take to sell.
Because of the slower sales and vendor fees what is happening is that people give up on even bothering to sell anything on the small shards. A flat fee means we all pay fees, just it doesn't matter how long it takes to sell. If I have 30 plants on my plant vendor at 5k ea (total worth 150k) in 3 months ( say 93 days) that is 83,700 gps I have paid in vendor fees on those plants. If I then sell out I make only 66,300 profit. If on the other hand it was a flat fee system, on the above example items under 50k incur a 1% fee so at 5k per plant that is 50gps 'fee' per plant. On 30 plants that is a total of 1500gps and I make 148,500 and it doesn't matter how long they take to sell. It means that I can afford to stock really cheap and low end items at no loss. Obviously the greedier I am and the more I charge then the more fees I pay.
Vendors on small shards are not encouraged to sell the 'every day' items as there is little profit in it. The complaint with a lot of players on small shards is there is nothing to buy, that is why. On my furniture vendor I stock 'anvils' and 'small forges' and I might sell one of them every 3-4 months to a restarting player who doesn't have a crafter yet. By the time that anvil or small forge has sat there for that long I am probably making about 20% of the original price I posted it for, which probably doesn't cover the cost of the ingots to make it
What I'm not getting is if you know the average you're selling per week, wouldn't you adjust your stock accordingly?
You sell 30 on ATL a week and ~4 on Oceania. Why would you stock more than that?
I would bet 1 platinum if they turned off or tweaked vendor fees that it would not change the population ratio.
It seems to me to be an argument of profits more than anything.
To help ease the strain of vendor charges, I offer vendor spaces for 1gp per week at my ATL Luna house.
Off the top of my head I'm pretty sure materials cost more than that lol. Your over 300 just in blank scrolls not counting the regs
Costs more than that, because you dont make a decent one everytime. I usuallyt only try to sell at least 2 mod books.
So how would a flat % at the time of sale hurt you or anyone else? I can see where it would greatly help the low pop shards and really would not make any difference on Atlantic other than a flat % could potentially cost the seller a bit more on things that sell fast.
You're beginning to catch on. Ya see, if we cant make some profit then what is the use? And I'm not talking about making millions, we should be able, tho, to cover the costs of mats on crafted items and still sell at a low reasonable price. lol not everywhere can be Atlantic.
I used to sell no mod books for 5k 2-3 mod books depending on the mods 10k-30k and super slayers for 100k -200k The Super slayers moved fairly fast, the 2-3 mods 3-4 per month and the no mods 1-2 per month. And as we all know the SS you might burn through 10,000 scrolls or more if the RNG is really hating you, to get one. In the end even at those prices it is a break even to small loss vending on Legends. I think the people against a fair % at sale fee, are not understanding we are not talking about making a killing but simply trying to provide basic products to our shards and not lose gold while doing so. BUT OMG SOMEONE MIGHT USE VENDORS FOR CHEAP STORAGE.......... I hate to say this but how does someone using a vendor for cheap storage affect anyone else game?
Most would call the result "inflation".
So you're telling me 6k a day per 1m is too much?
I've already covered the low end argument a handful of times.
I don't want people using vendors for cheap storage.
I think the vendor fees are reasonable. People just need to take a little time to learn the market instead of being lazy and just crying for a fix that benefits them.
IT IS NOT ABOUT THE POPULATION! WE KNOW WE PLAY ON LOW POP SHARDS AND THINGS SELL SLOWER A LOT SLOWER THAN THEY DO ON ATLANTIC. We do not know what will sell from week to week. You may go 3 months and sell 1-2 things and then visit your vendor and the entire stock be sold one day in the 4th month, most likely because someone returned or a new person started and needed those things. One example I started a character on a new shard Origin actually and found one vendor selling forges, anvils, spinning wheels and looms. 1 of each stocked, I run 6 spinning wheels for efficiency, after buying the one of each in stock it was a month before I was able to buy a second. It would have been faster for me start from 0 and make a gm carpenter. I ultimately gave up on origin because it took a act of god to find the most basic of things. AGAIN IT IS NOT ABOUT THE POPULATION but it is about being able to keep a vendor stocked for the existing population and the occasional new or returning player that wants or need things like spinnign wheels, spell books or gasp stat scrolls, power scrolls etc. And if it has to sit on a vendor for 2-6 months I at least don't mind the time, what I do mind if the 5k spell book losing 2k or the 3 mil scroll losing 1 mil for vendor fees just because it was on a vendor for when some did want or need it.
I have a few things in my vendors ,like mastery level 1 scrolls, I never take out of the vendor to give people the opportunity to get them whenever they need them. These things are not for profit. If I would do some, even better. But you cant put expensive items in vendors on low populated shards for profit reasons. If I put a Slither in a vendor for like 100m and it sells after 2 month, there is a profit of about 30-40m. But if I ask a friend to bring it to atlantic my profit would almost be 100m. Maybe the difference isnt much for people having lots of platinumm, but for us it is. So expensive items are moved to atlantic. And when someone from my shard wants a Slither he might ask in forum and/or chat, but more likely will check the atlantic market. So in the end he might buy my Slither on Atlantic and brings it back, although it was originally gotten on the same shard and thats just stupid and it shouldnt be that way. We shouldnt bring items to another shard to sell, but people should come to our shard to buy them if they want.
And a flat % would cost more with inflation as the price of what is being sold would be higher due to inflation.
6k per day after 90 days is 540,000 6% after 90 days is 60k what do you think? 6% after 1 hour is still 60k 6% after 3 days is still 60k...........
Greed is the name of the game. I have no way of compiling the data, I can guess, some don't play as often as others. There's family, work, social lives and whatnot. Thus, some do not sit at a computer for hours on end accumulating pixel wealth. Others do. Those that do, see it as the norm. Then they set up a vendor. Some let these vendors sit empty, and lag the hell out of Luna.......others sell, and price items beyond comprehension (coming from a normal player) millions upon millions........to the addicted, thats the norm.......no, this game has gone from okay, in prices, to outright a big flipping joke......if you sellers value these pixels that bad, keep them. A new player will think you sellers to be quite mad............having been on this game for as long as I have......you don't want me to publicly state my opinion.
In closing, as Paulie said in Goodfellows......" don't like it , screw you, pay me!"
You seem to be assuming these items just dropped free outta the sky lol It's not uncommon to have 800K or 900K into an item your just trying to dump for whatever reason
Nothing to do with greed. So every shard except Atlantic is greedy so they don't have vendors on the other shards? When Atlantic price is twice that of anyone else? If you price something at the going rate it may sit for months on a regular shard. You make it more affordable and it is bought and brought to Atlantic to make a killing on. The point is we will never get Atlantic prices but the price needs to be kept up to some degree to allow items to stay on the shard as being unattractive to resellers and still be able to serve the shard they're intended for. One needs to try to find a fine line between Atlantic shoppers grabbing them up for resale and being affordable to a low population shard. But that's nearly impossible with excessive vendor fees. It's a constant state of making them cheap enough for the local shoppers and try to cover vendor fees and the moment it goes that cheap it's gone with the next event when the cross sharders stop in to loot the event drops. The entire system right now just feeds Atlantic and they know it. Little wonder some fight this so strongly. Just because a person brags one shard doesn't mean they don't play many shards. Most have a home shard along with SP so I don't buy into any of that nonsense. The only people that would have a problem with fixing vendor fees either play Atlantic or never had a vendor in their life and have no idea.
I could see why it would be difficult to distinguish between the two.
When populations decline it can have a cascade effect.
People leave = lower demand = less items = less reason for anyone to stay or play
Regardless, the same argument I've been making would be 6k per mil is reasonable and things under 10k should have no fees.
Beyond that, the math just isn't there to nerf vendor fees across the board.
Nailed it!
Wow you just do not get it.
At 100k profit for a 1m would leave a couple weeks to sell it to break even.
But this is just an example.
Feel free to tell me what you're investing that much in with a small profit margin.
I'm not sure where you're getting 6%
(1,000,000/500)*3 = 6,000
6,000/1,000,000 = .006
.006 * 100 = .6%
lowering vendor fees will just encourage greedy folks to increase the Insane prices they are trying to sell at.....
its a NO from me.....sorry
How about weekly vendor fee changes that scale with the population of the shard.
Example:
Atlantic (highest tax, biggest population)
Server #2 by population (Less than Atlantic)
Server #3 by population (Less than Server #2)
Server #4 by population (Less than Server #3)
Etc.
Meh...just a thought, I only sell Glacial Spellbooks on my vendor on ATL and nothing else so I have no dog in this fight either way.
Example:
Atlantic (highest tax, biggest population)
Server #2 by population (Less than Atlantic)
Server #3 by population (Less than Server #2)
Server #4 by population (Less than Server #3)
Etc.
Meh...just a thought, I only sell Glacial Spellbooks on my vendor on ATL and nothing else so I have no dog in this fight either way.
Not a bad idea if you base it on inflation.
However, I wouldn't justify it from the standpoint of someone not being able to sell a spellbook in a few weeks.
this has been brought up before, the problem is the items can sit on vender for a long time costing more than it is worth or sold for. the low population shards do need help. it is the reason there are no venders/nothing to buy. if any new or returning players come to that shard, they don't stay, they quit or move. theres also the problem with these players not finding anyone to do things with, a lot just use multi chars, don't need anyone else. this is one of the dumbest things the devs let happened. letting the use of other chars to heal/use buffs on tank char. can do anything in game. while visiting some of these small shards, I noticed repair deeds can be hard to find, sometimes there are none. this is another thing that may need to be addressed. people are will/are leaving the game or shard because of this. just my opinions
PS I don't want u to work on my car, I want u to fix it.
PS I don't want u to work on my car, I want u to fix it.
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That is cost of storage of inventory. Just like any other business. It is a simple aspect and cost of supply chain management that anyone who is selling something has to contend with. Overtime, those costs grow for not turning over your inventory. A flat rate is unrealistic.
They're not broken - so no fix is needed. We need gold sinks in this game, pure and simple. No shard should get special treatment.
The only semi-reasonable idea I've seen in this thread is eliminating fees on items for less than 10k.
I am for a Flat % Charge on Vendor Sales. Things can and will sit for 6+ Months on some servers even when they are the only one of that item available and are priced relative to Atlantic.
But OREOGL is right that the problem is population, not vendor fees, but fixing Vendor Fees may help sellers want to keep some items on servers instead of just bagging everything up and jumping to Atlantic.
We have a lot of returning players who are logging back onto their original servers to see no players, nothing for sale, and then they log right back out.
But OREOGL is right that the problem is population, not vendor fees, but fixing Vendor Fees may help sellers want to keep some items on servers instead of just bagging everything up and jumping to Atlantic.
We have a lot of returning players who are logging back onto their original servers to see no players, nothing for sale, and then they log right back out.
Lucky,Tyrath, yall let it go. It is what it is, and no amount of reason will change anyone's mind. So we just keep loading up and going to Atlantic to sell stuff...and when we want to buy we get it from Atlantic as well.
Because if we used a set % someone might make a profit on scribed goods and crafted deco...and we cannot allow that!!!!!!!!
Because if we used a set % someone might make a profit on scribed goods and crafted deco...and we cannot allow that!!!!!!!!
Well if you put a static 10% fee on every item on atlantic it is a better gold sink and on low populated shards its a worse one. I would like that, but most merchants wont.
The main thing no one seems to be able to grasp is:
The small vendor shops on small shards are getting killed off by the way things are now.
Current setup is NOT working.
So it needs to be changed.
and everyone screams OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!! We cannot have change!!!!!!!!!!
Some kinda change really really needs to be made, or the situation will continue to worsen as more players leave.
If you can't make a flat rate one time fee, then make there be no vendor fees at all for items below 500k or so.
Either way.
The small vendor shops on small shards are getting killed off by the way things are now.
Current setup is NOT working.
So it needs to be changed.
and everyone screams OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!! We cannot have change!!!!!!!!!!
Some kinda change really really needs to be made, or the situation will continue to worsen as more players leave.
If you can't make a flat rate one time fee, then make there be no vendor fees at all for items below 500k or so.
Either way.
Heck, I'd go as far as say make the flat rate 30% to 40% if we need gold sinks that badly. It would still be better than the system in place.
At least with that one can calculate profit rates and plan their vendors appropriately.
This is a game, not real life. We don't need complex systems that emulate real life supply chain management costs.
At least with that one can calculate profit rates and plan their vendors appropriately.
This is a game, not real life. We don't need complex systems that emulate real life supply chain management costs.
Theres a lot of truth to this.
I play both Origin and Atlantic and at one point had a vendor house in Luna.
I stocked really REALLY cheap repair deeds. The deeds would sit for months, losing money in the end until some sort of shard event, then they'd get bought out, but I still lost money on them. Same thing is true on full potion kegs and bulk reagents I'd sell.
I routinely started to lose money on vendor fees if any higher priced item sat for longer than a month. Same items could be posted at same price or slightly higher on Atlantic and sell within a week and I'd lose very little on vendor fees because of how fast they sold.
Size of the shard really does matter when it comes to selling stuff. I hesitate setting up vendors anymore on Origin except when there are events where Xsharders are here because when they're here it's worth it. When there's no event, not worth it. Which is probably why there are so few stocked vendors on Origin and when they are stocked they sell out stupid fast.
I support a flat % fee on items. 5% is 5% no matter the cost of the item and is still a gold sink.
I play both Origin and Atlantic and at one point had a vendor house in Luna.
I stocked really REALLY cheap repair deeds. The deeds would sit for months, losing money in the end until some sort of shard event, then they'd get bought out, but I still lost money on them. Same thing is true on full potion kegs and bulk reagents I'd sell.
I routinely started to lose money on vendor fees if any higher priced item sat for longer than a month. Same items could be posted at same price or slightly higher on Atlantic and sell within a week and I'd lose very little on vendor fees because of how fast they sold.
Size of the shard really does matter when it comes to selling stuff. I hesitate setting up vendors anymore on Origin except when there are events where Xsharders are here because when they're here it's worth it. When there's no event, not worth it. Which is probably why there are so few stocked vendors on Origin and when they are stocked they sell out stupid fast.
I support a flat % fee on items. 5% is 5% no matter the cost of the item and is still a gold sink.
Just read this, I'm not sure what a flat % has to do with my responses.
I've not made an argument for or against a flat %.
Since several of us have been suggesting a % based fee for a lot of this thread can't believe you missed it.
LOL for many occasions a 90% commission would atleast give us a 10% profit which is better than many of our shops are or were doing. Well 10% until the cost of materials was figured in
The Xsharders and Atlantic players don't see a problem therefor there is no problem................
In the mean time things I would like to put on a vendor so when someone does want or need one........ They can have some options and selection stay in the boxes because reasonable vendor fees, simply are unreasonable according to Atl players and Xsharders.
I'm not sure why you would incorporate it into your response to me as a refutal about inflation.
A 6% flat fee has nothing to do with my replies to you.
I pulled 6% out of the air as a example Nothing more and nothing less. Have a nice day.
That was kind of my point as well...
Anyways for crafters that want to sell low priced useful items ill go back to some shovels as an example. I can't just put 2 shovels on the vendor and look to see if the sell everyday and then restock them when they sold because most likely the miner buying them is going to want to buy 20 shovels at a time not 2. So I put 20 shovels on the vendor and they might sit there for a month or 2 and then they sell out all at once. with a flat fee I wouldn't lose any money but with the way it is now it could easily lose money.
Like i said originally expensive items I can just auction off on the message boards and in general chat.
I think the only way a flat fee would work is either you are charged when you put it on the vendor or as someone else noted you are charged when it is sold or when you take it off your vendor. Otherwise vendors would just turn into extra storage.
I'm sure extra storage bloats the system or else the developers wouldn't of put a limit on storage in the first place.
Like i said originally expensive items I can just auction off on the message boards and in general chat.
I think the only way a flat fee would work is either you are charged when you put it on the vendor or as someone else noted you are charged when it is sold or when you take it off your vendor. Otherwise vendors would just turn into extra storage.
I'm sure extra storage bloats the system or else the developers wouldn't of put a limit on storage in the first place.
There are packrats in our game, without a doubt. They need to place a trash barrel and keep it stuffed.
I will make this simple. I have stocked filled rune books on a vendor since the day rune books came out. Along with filled Spell books and others we have these days. I stack filled books 5 at a time. For years my fee has run me 5k a day. Nothing has changed on my vendors and 6 months ago or so I was being charged 7k a day. I kept thinking this odd and made sure I didn't add a 6th book to a stack. Well now it is costing me 9k a day to stock the exact same thing. Yes the fees have gone up, No I'm not charging outrageous prices BUT its making it so my bank account doesn't move a whole lot with fees taking all my profits. Please put the charges back to the way they use to be.....Please stop messing with things that are not broken. I don't need a money sink. Never duped cheated or any other thing. I sell books and would like my gold for the hard work I do. Thank You
Do you sell things to break even?