How Many Subscriptions Does UO Have?

[THP]

mmmmm 2 trains of thought...

actual subs as of today july 2010....people paying per month to play UO...i would guess around 75K mark....

using wow's cunning method of adding every single player that ever made a UO account including UO trial accounts....4-5 million [END]...

 

[Tek]

http://www.mmogchart.com/charts/

Well if MMOGChart is correct the subscription numbers in 2008 were roughly 75,000 and following the decline rate over the years (2005 to 2008) by the chart we would be currently 50,000 or less subscriptions. Also from looking at the chart Mondain's Legacy release in 2005 did not have much effect of the decrease in subscriptions.

 

[Evlar]

You could make an awful lot of friends very quickly.

You know which particular thread many of us are keeping tabs on for "news".

All I would ask is this...

Having mentioned submitting a business plan of some desctipion to EA previously, regarding a "classic" option, can Cal_Mythic say at this stage, if there's any progress at all? Is it still at the planning stage? Has it been knocked back by EA, or approved? If it's actual "work in progress", any chance of some two-way banter with the punters on this?

PM if you like, I can keep a secret... honest!

 

[Manticore]

As long as EA Mythic deems UO is making money for them they will keep it running as simple as that.

Event at a conservative estimate of 40k accounts that's 5 million USD per year. You add in the cost of maintaining of a low graphic type of game along with a couple of people in the development and a couple of GMs, ya I say this game is still a profitable one so ROCK ON PEOPLE!!!

 

[canary]

You could make an awful lot of friends very quickly.

You know which particular thread many of us are keeping tabs on for "news".

All I would ask is this...

Having mentioned submitting a business plan of some desctipion to EA previously, regarding a "classic" option, can Cal_Mythic say at this stage, if there's any progress at all? Is it still at the planning stage? Has it been knocked back by EA, or approved? If it's actual "work in progress", any chance of some two-way banter with the punters on this?

PM if you like, I can keep a secret... honest!

You know, Evlar, and its just my opinion, but I can only at this point see work on a classic shard further dividing not only dev time but the playerbase as well. It isn't that I don't think it is an interesting concept, I just believe in the long run it wouldn't hearken a renaissance in the game, and we'd have more upset than content customers.

I personally think the team should think of ways to entice new players into wanting to try UO than retread the past and garner a smaller jump in subscribers. Especially given the skeleton crew of UO, I think it would be a step backwards. Again, not that I'm anti classic shard, just saying.

 

[Evlar]

You know, Evlar, and its just my opinion, but I can only at this point see work on a classic shard further dividing not only dev time but the playerbase as well. It isn't that I don't think it is an interesting concept, I just believe in the long run it wouldn't hearken a renaissance in the game, and we'd have more upset than content customers.

I personally think the team should think of ways to entice new players into wanting to try UO than retread the past and garner a smaller jump in subscribers. Especially given the skeleton crew of UO, I think it would be a step backwards. Again, not that I'm anti classic shard, just saying.

I hear what you're saying. It's just that the general consensus (which isn't just on Stratics btw, it's discussed elsewhere a lot too ), is that once launched, it wouldn't need to have much, or regular, development. Fire it up, let the players do the rest, tends to be the train of thought.

Based on that assumption, the main thing would be actually getting it up and running. If it brings players back, then that's certainly worthy of some attention. The less negative impact it has on the production shards, then obviously that's good too. Just that enquiring minds are interested for any snippets of "news".

I mean come on... I offered to post the guy a chorizo (in the first thread), all the way from Spain. You can't ask for fairer than that now, can you?

 

[Lord Chaos]

I hear what you're saying. It's just that the general consensus (which isn't just on Stratics btw, it's discussed elsewhere a lot too ), is that once launched, it wouldn't need to have much, or regular, development. Fire it up, let the players do the rest, tends to be the train of thought.

1. A whole new UO game would have to be created.
2. A new client would have to be created ontop of the CC client.
3. Players would not really agree on how things are and as such would demand change.

This costs millions of dollars, much more than the *potential* thousands of players could ever hope to bring in.

 

[Lady Storm]

The magic eight ball says "Probably not."

Draconi !! hi kiddo

first off
Quote:
Originally Posted by canary
Ehn, with all the F2P games anymore I'd put in the following:

* Unlimited 'trial time'
* Cannot place houses
* relegated to Trammel
* bank set at, say, 20-30 items
* skills and stats cannot be modified by scrolls
* no use of things like artifacts, soulstones, etc.

I'm sure there are many other limitations we could impose; I do know it would likely bring back some old players, and may perhaps get them intrigued to start paying again for the perks.

Yes if this was possible id go for it and I like:
Trapped on Haven Island until you pay to upgrade .

Note to Cal... Hey we are the biggest think engine you will ever have for free kiddo dont forget that you can use this stuff. It would make us happy to help save our game.

 

[canary]

You know, it's interesting. Darkscribe wanted to make UO free to play back in the day. We were actually going to announce the decision right when Mythic was acquired by EA. Literally the week before the decision, after we built up the whole Inu plotline, he came back from a meeting with the Mythical folk and we learned that the plan was scuttled.

Instead, we were asked to build the KR client and prepare for a new expansion (which would eventually become SA). So, during the turmoil of that week as we massively changed plans, we unleashed the Ophidian Invasion to keep everyone busy! Sorry for all the weird plot points that appeared at random times - a lot of them were reactions to sudden game changes. Mwahaha.

Ow! Funny story. Before the elves, the original plan was to make a pirate expansion - the code branch is still called "High Seas" internally for Mondain's Legacy.

Object lessons in how quickly decisions at higher paygrades can alter a development cycle!

That's too bad, really. Hopefully smarter minds will prevail again. Just another showcase that the uppers at EA have no idea how to handle UO. Back in 2007 that would have made it the first 'big' online to go from P2P to F2P, and you coulda stole D&D's thunder. Ah well.

Instead, we got a client that, 3 years later, still needs polish and finished. /shrugs

 

[Babble]

You know, it's interesting. Darkscribe wanted to make UO free to play back in the day. We were actually going to announce the decision right when Mythic was acquired by EA. Literally the week before the decision, after we built up the whole Inu plotline, he came back from a meeting with the Mythical folk and we learned that the plan was scuttled.

Instead, we were asked to build the KR client and prepare for a new expansion (which would eventually become SA). So, during the turmoil of that week as we massively changed plans, we unleashed the Ophidian Invasion to keep everyone busy! Sorry for all the weird plot points that appeared at random times - a lot of them were reactions to sudden game changes. Mwahaha.

Ow! Funny story. Before the elves, the original plan was to make a pirate expansion - the code branch is still called "High Seas" internally for Mondain's Legacy.

Object lessons in how quickly decisions at higher paygrades can alter a development cycle!

LOL I knew EA was chaotic, but did not expect it to be so directionless.

 

[Babble]

Oh and the Nooo! you hear now somewhere is for the pirate guy who prayed for the pirate expansion for a decade.


Thwarted by a new elfloving producer.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Oh my. Draconi!

Well since your post-firing confidentiality agreement appears to be up, either that or you're drunk today and are willing to risk getting your ass sued off, anything else you wish to tell us?

How ****ed we are, or a rough estimate thereof, or if we're ****ed at all, would be good.

-Galen's player

 

[kelmo]

*chuckles* Maybe both. *tips hat* Good to hear from you Draconi at any rate. Feel free to blow something up.

 

[Storm]

Well nice to hear from You Draconi... How the heck are you and what are YOU working on these days?

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Well nice to hear from You Draconi... How the heck are you and what are YOU working on these days?

I heard he was going to replace the now-deceased Ronnie Dio as the lead singer of Black Sabbath (or as it's known now, Heaven and Hell).

But I tend to hear a lot of strange things that are later proven false.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

*chuckles* Maybe both. *tips hat* Good to hear from you Draconi at any rate. Feel free to blow something up.

Looks like he's logged. He has probably passed out and will likely have sobered up by the time he wakes up, and will not be heard from again for another few months.

Oh well.

-Galen's player

 

[Storm]

lol Galen, If he handled Dio like UO I am sure it would be fun ;-)

 

[Storm]

"Circlets! If they were any hats, they magically transform into a circlet! Can't have those ears covered up!"

funny stuff there

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

You know, it's interesting. Darkscribe wanted to make UO free to play back in the day. We were actually going to announce the decision right when Mythic was acquired by EA. Literally the week before the decision, after we built up the whole Inu plotline, he came back from a meeting with the Mythical folk and we learned that the plan was scuttled.

Instead, we were asked to build the KR client and prepare for a new expansion (which would eventually become SA). So, during the turmoil of that week as we massively changed plans, we unleashed the Ophidian Invasion to keep everyone busy! Sorry for all the weird plot points that appeared at random times - a lot of them were reactions to sudden game changes. Mwahaha.

Ow! Funny story. Before the elves, the original plan was to make a pirate expansion - the code branch is still called "High Seas" internally for Mondain's Legacy.

Object lessons in how quickly decisions at higher paygrades can alter a development cycle!

Oh my, this is a lot of inside info in this post.

That's a rather big shift, from the high seas to Mondain's Legacy, which I liked, but I find the high seas intriguing.

Funny to see the Ophidian Invasion, which was popular and played to the hilt by many of us, was an afterthought. On GL it was even given a proper name: The War of the Zenith Scion. And now it's part of the backdrop for The Rise of the Bane Chosen. And have you seen any of the jaw-dropping, Imbued Berserker's Bardiches on some shards?

*gasps*

And let's not forget Inavlis's Burkette.

All because of an afterthought.

So the big announcement wasn't a questionable new client but a new business model?

I always liked Darkscribe. I'm glad he had such a cool idea.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

lol Galen, If he handled Dio like UO I am sure it would be fun ;-)

The lover of life's not the sinner, the ending is just a beginner.
The closer you get to the meaning, the more that you know you're dreaming.

It goes on and on and on. It's Heaven and Hell.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Haha!

Nah, I just had a moment to drop by and say hi!

Besides, all this has already been told in unassembled bits over the years You won't hear a disparaging bit about EA leave my lips! Very important not to be disparaging!

Also, no, no numbers from me And you know how I feel about UO: it'll live forever no matter what!

I sure hope you're right, and I hope you don't mean that you're starting a player shard after the game is canceled.. I really don't want to have to learn a new game, and I don't want to play on a player shard.

-Galen's player

 

[Lord Urza]

*covers a beaming smile with his hands as he slips away* ... That is a great idea!

hehehehe ...

Cal don't get my hopes up that UO will advertise again.

It is a great great Idea.

Ill make you a deal, UO begins to advertise, then ill advertise uo as well by getting a UO tattoo lol

 

[Otis Firefly]

hiya Draconi!
seeing that your in the house!! i must ask! how is Raphaels Tear coming along???

 

[Pfloyd]

It would be pretty easy to take a census of accounts...just make a statue on each shard that gives out something when dbl clicked for a limited time per account that is worthless except the cool color and have the statue track the number given out. Even for 3 months it should be long enough for everyone to get it.

Especially if each shard gave out a different item...

 

[canary]

We can even do a new race just by changing the ears on humans!

Engineers: But how can you tell they're elves if they're wearing hats?

*emergency art/design thinktank*

Circlets! If they wear any hats, they magically transform into a circlet! Can't have those ears covered up!

=)

You do realize we were all told recently that circlets out of hats WASN'T a feature, but a bug, and they, ahem... 'corrected' it.

LOL just goes to show what the current team is aware of. Ah well.

 

[BeefSupreme]

Holy wtfndaexpired Draconi posts! lol!

 

[Lady Storm]

Welcome back to posting Draconi, you were missed if you didnt get the drift.

 

[roninaxx]

I checked with the "Hitchers Guide " and the answer is 42

 

[Deb]

Nice to see you again Draconi...and Cal I sure hope UO gets
the advertising it deserves.
Sometimes word of mouth just isn't enough.

 

[Aurelius]

Cal reads the forums ... Cal does not normally answer these questions.
Cal rarely refers to himself in the first person.
Cal will now stop writing in the third person.

As a rule we don't give out subscriber numbers.

But you never explain why ... it's like talking with a four year old, the only "reason" EA ever give for not releasing the information is 'because we don't'.

It seems unlikely any of your competitors are waiting for this hugely confidential and vital information so they can steal something from it to dominate the games industry with, or that the subs profits of UO game are a secret that the managers and shareholders of EA are keeping hidden as it funds their secret bases they will use to take over the world. As far as I can see it's simply standard corporate paranoia about 'never telling anyone anything'. Pathetic, but it's the way too many companies behave.

Naturally enough, the conclusion people draw from a company not releasing harmless information is they are embarassed by it. If you won't tell us how many subscriptions the game has, at least tell us why it's such a secret....

 

[Aurelius]

I remember staying at work till 2 in the morning most nights, hanging out with my two engineering buddies (one, Supreem, came to Mythic with Leurocian and I) - even took a photo of me being attacked by Ophidians in the elevator.

This one?

 

[Trevelyan]

Sorry for all the weird plot points that appeared at random times - a lot of them were reactions to sudden game changes.

I'm just going to sit around like some grieving widow in denial and wait for you to come back to UO to give ophidian rations and snake skins a purpose, you know that right?

 

[QueenZen]

Well I know after 2.5 hrs. of seeking some answers from Dell in ordering my new laptop to try to continue to play UO that one tech geek person in computer designs at Dell must have at least one active, UO acct.

My XP is dying. I wanted to order a new computer to try to continue to play UO a bit longer. I asked the sales rep...if I order this will I be able to play UO on it. She had no clue what Ultima Online was.

She went to check with the tech reps geek reps at Dell. They offered me World of Warcraft saying that I could surely play that game on their Dells.
I said I DUN WANT WOW I wanna play a 12 yr. old game called Ultima Online some more for a while longer.

2.5 hrs. later................. before I would even place an order with Dell...one of their geek tech squad peeps talked with me and he knew all about Ultima Online and said he plays it STILL and that I WILL be able to continue to play UO on my new laptop I wanted to order from them, IF the UO download downloads. It would be nice to have a NEW CD for all of us to use, to even have to buy to slap on newer computers instead of a dwld though. HINT HINT.


I tried to convince him to try Siege...he said there is no Trammel there, he took my order and then...he FLED ! lol

Thus with his one active UO acct. still and my 4 active ones, that makes 5 active UO subscriptions, to add to our grand total.

 

[UOKaiser]

Cal reads the forums ... Cal does not normally answer these questions.
Cal rarely refers to himself in the first person.
Cal will now stop writing in the third person.

As a rule we don't give out subscriber numbers.

How about a thumbs up or thumbs down? Last I heard from the grapevine it was a thumbs down. Then you can't count free accounts and then got to figure out how many of those accounts are owned by the same player then make sure non active accounts are not counted. Oh well what a pain.

 

[canary]

They simply won't tell because it may be construed as a notion that the business is doing poorly.

You want to brag when you reach 250k subscribers (AoS), but you don't want to talk about the game numbers when it may have only between 40-70k.

 

[Salya Sin]

Heres the offical numbers....

Its gone up...then gone down...gone up again..then gone down..after each Publish it goes up then goes down....as it stands now..its on a downward spiral..BUT its slowly back to up with new old players coming back..who will play for awhile and make it go up..then it will go down again

ROFL! I love you man..

Heh, this was before I joined the team, but it was more like this:

Friday.

Senior Engineer: Hey, I have the estimates for improving the boat systems and revamping how movement works in the game. *hands to the Lead Designer and Development Director*

*everyone freaks out that it might take 6-8 months worst case scenario*

DD and LD: We'll get back to you.

One emergency weekend later.

DD and LD: We're doing Elves. Elves were in the early Ultimas. Sure, that's the ticket. Look, a World Tree, it was always there! Heh. Yeah...

We can even do a new race just by changing the ears on humans!

Engineers: But how can you tell they're elves if they're wearing hats?

*emergency art/design thinktank*

Circlets! If they wear any hats, they magically transform into a circlet! Can't have those ears covered up!

=)

OMG! You so need to draw that into a cartoon. It's like reading Dilbert! LMAO!

 

[Lord Gareth]

You could make an awful lot of friends very quickly.

Awwww I'll be your friend Cal *Sends request*

 

[Sneaky Que]

Well if MMOGChart is correct the subscription numbers in 2008 were roughly 75,000 and following the decline rate over the years (2005 to 2008) by the chart we would be currently 50,000 or less subscriptions. Also from looking at the chart Mondain's Legacy release in 2005 did not have much effect of the decrease in subscriptions.

What is interesting about that chart I think is the huge decline in numbers between 2003-2005. This shows us that a lot of people were not happy with AoS and that SE was so crap and poorly received that it did nothing to stop the decline. ML did a little better and there was a slight increase around it's release but not much.

Compared to AoS, SE and ML, SA was much better received and had FAR fewer bugs than the 3 before it. So I would think that it would of had a better positive impact on the numbers than ML.

Clearly UO's best expansion ever (in terms of population rise after it's release) was t2a where the game went from ~50k to ~200k. The worst would be the AoS/SE period where we went from ~250k to ~125k.

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

Quitting the day UO goes the F2P model. Can't be bothered with that. You usually end up paying lot more and get lot less with such things. Not to mention it further squeezes out whatever RP element that still survives in the so called mmoRPGs. No thanks.

Worst. Idea. Ever.

Glad Mythic took over UO if it meant such a terrible idea was prevented from seeing the light of the day.

 

[Llewen]

Quitting the day UO goes the F2P model. Can't be bothered with that. You usually end up paying lot more and get lot less with such things. Not to mention it further squeezes out whatever RP element that still survives in the so called mmoRPGs. No thanks.

Worst. Idea. Ever.

I completely agree.

 

[canary]

Quitting the day UO goes the F2P model. Can't be bothered with that. You usually end up paying lot more and get lot less with such things. Not to mention it further squeezes out whatever RP element that still survives in the so called mmoRPGs. No thanks.

Worst. Idea. Ever.

Glad Mythic took over UO if it meant such a terrible idea was prevented from seeing the light of the day.

Actually. playing Runes of Magic, I disagree. If nothing, it pushes the team to create more ongoing content and new items to have to keep the interest of the players.

 

[MalagAste]

Draconi !! hi kiddo

first off
Quote:
Originally Posted by canary
Ehn, with all the F2P games anymore I'd put in the following:

* Unlimited 'trial time'
* Cannot place houses
* relegated to Trammel
* bank set at, say, 20-30 items
* skills and stats cannot be modified by scrolls
* no use of things like artifacts, soulstones, etc.

I'm sure there are many other limitations we could impose; I do know it would likely bring back some old players, and may perhaps get them intrigued to start paying again for the perks.

Yes if this was possible id go for it and I like:
Trapped on Haven Island until you pay to upgrade .

Note to Cal... Hey we are the biggest think engine you will ever have for free kiddo dont forget that you can use this stuff. It would make us happy to help save our game.

This for sure... I am not sure I'd trap them on Haven... but I think I'd trap them in Trammel (ie no Tokuno, no Malas, no Ter Mur). As well I'd limit them and say No lumberjacking, No Mining...and no BODs. NO Vet rewards or use of vet rewards.

That is the best thoughts I have on that subject right now.


As for the # of players, I would say that even Dear Cal can not give a good estimate even though he has subscription numbers. Since they ban folk and only ban one account I often wonder if they even know how many accounts any one person does have.


As for counting houses you can't even do that to get any sort of estimate. With people having multiple accounts, multiple houses (Yes folk still have grandfathered accounts with several homes on them) and such it's just not possible to really know how many actual "players" there are.

Now if they gave us some way to "link" accounts so that all "linked" accounts have access to all homes owned... perhaps they could get a better estimate... But this is never likely to happen.


And HEY Draconi! Nice to see you posting again my friend. How's that game coming you been working on?


Cal always nice to hear from you. Need to hear from you more often. PR sucks right now. Just so you know. Shame you don't have any friends!


And I sadly enjoyed the "bug" of elves to wear circlets. I miss mine. *curses the dead deer hat again*


and I agree with Canary about the Classic shards.

 

[Archie]

Quitting the day UO goes the F2P model. Can't be bothered with that. You usually end up paying lot more and get lot less with such things. Not to mention it further squeezes out whatever RP element that still survives in the so called mmoRPGs. No thanks.

Worst. Idea. Ever.

Glad Mythic took over UO if it meant such a terrible idea was prevented from seeing the light of the day.

That's exactly how I felt with the Advanced Characters and the power-up idea. That was the final straw. I haven't paid to play UO since that stuff went into the game.

But I've re-evaluated that stance. A F2P model that offers all aspects of the game to all players offers role players the same opportunities that they've always had in UO -- the ability to set their own role playing rules and restrictions and go about their own business. Now I see UO more as a role playing canvas than a role playing game. It's up to the players to stay within their characters' boundaries and abilities, and what should be reasonably known and perceived. UO never forced that onto people.

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

Actually. I disagree.

Based on your previous posts on this forum, you disagreeing does not cause any comfort. We probably are completely different in what we want out of our games.

Now I see UO more as a role playing canvas than a role playing game.

Your argument makes very little sense.

First of all, I have always looked at UO as a role playing canvas. Currently, after you pay your monthly subscription (which is equal for everyone), anything is possible and completely upto you. Advance character token and limited time decoration item tokens bla bla (although they suck) do not matter as much. You pay your 12 bucks and pretty much get the same canvas. The focus is still, thankfully, on providing content and services for standard subscribers.

With F2P model you get a small dinky canvas if you do not pay.. but wait, you can buy the fine quality brushes separately. Oh, and you do not get the color red with the free version. Better shell out some for that. I am not sure how that would create equal opportunity paintings for everyone, unless you mean equal opportunity to buy a masterpiece.

However, I am sure there will be several people who would like this idea. I am also quite certain that in the long run it would not work out as well, even if EA was able to execute it in a decent manner.

 

[Archie]

Your argument makes very little sense.

First of all, I have always looked at UO as a role playing canvas. Currently, after you pay your monthly subscription (which is equal for everyone), anything is possible and completely upto you. Advance character token and limited time decoration item tokens bla bla (although they suck) do not matter as much. F2P model would most likely involve things where the only way you can access a significant subsystem is by paying more for it.

However, I am sure there will be several people who would like this idea. I am also quite certain that in the long run it would not work out as well.

You left out this part that I wrote:

"A F2P model that offers all aspects of the game to all players offers role players the same opportunities that they've always had in UO -- the ability to set their own role playing rules and restrictions and go about their own business."

I think a free to play model should give everyone the same opportunities in the game, whether it be access to items, access to places, access to story lines, choices in character development, etc. All the "pay" part would represent is a short cut for some players and revenue for the company.

A free to play model that restricts what some players can do (who don't pay) and enables what others can do (who do pay) is not something I would support. Players have been buying items, houses and gold off the Internet for years, or powering up their characters' skills from the store. (None of that is quite what I expect out of a RPG.)

"...so called mmoRPGs."

I used to think of UO as a RPG, but now I think of it as a RPC. That's all I meant by canvas. It's up to us as players whether or not we role play. UO is a great canvas for role playing, but it's a lot more than that. It's a combat game. It's a deco game. It's a griefing game. It's a hang out with friends game. It's a bash on some monsters game. It's a pixel crack game.

 

[G.v.P]

[YOUTUBE]gxwLMfypEOk[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]17zNW-wz35E[/YOUTUBE]

Wow. That reminds me of a very old photoshop I did, lol, one of my first UO photoshops. Except I'm too cool, I used Corel Photopaint 8.

8,999 again

 

[Sir_Bolo]

You know, it's interesting. Darkscribe wanted to make UO free to play back in the day. We were actually going to announce the decision right when Mythic was acquired by EA. Literally the week before the decision, after we built up the whole Inu plotline, he came back from a meeting with the Mythical folk and we learned that the plan was scuttled.

Instead, we were asked to build the KR client and prepare for a new expansion (which would eventually become SA).

I thought that the development of the KR client had already started under Darkscribe at Redwood Shores before the acquisition of Mythic by EA...

 

[MalagAste]

*sighs*

Bug or not a bug and I never thought it was a bug I always thought it was a feature of choosing to be elven....

I miss my circlet.