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Eagle/Phoenix

Discussion in 'UHall' started by PaithanTheElf, May 16, 2017.

  1. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    So I was and wasnt wrong then regarding dex...*takes notes*.
     
  2. de LEET ed

    de LEET ed Lore Master

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    You are sadly mistaken, do you even pvp? That is a serious question.
     
  3. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Inquisitor
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    Show me a pic of your dead body under a pet.
     
  4. de LEET ed

    de LEET ed Lore Master

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    What would that have to do with speedhacking cu-sids who run faster than other mounted pets?
     
  5. Slayvite

    Slayvite Babbling Loonie
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    Can I just add that the Pheonix is NOT non-aggressive like the UOGuide says......as soon as you push that "tame" button it's very much aggressive......and hurts.... ;)
     
  6. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    :) Jer got Pekt to death.

    In all seriousness, I pmed Kyronix and Bleak with some proposals, alerted them to the anniversary horses and the high Dex pets movement speeds. They already fixed the anniversary horses.

    The issue was they were made aware if it prepublish, and they capped Stam at 150 post tame thinking that would reduce the movement speed, where the movement speed was actually based on Dex. So hopefully they just fix it.


    I would also propose that no pet with casting/ranged attacks should be able to dismount or mortal a player. I don't care what they do in pvm and since mortal is effective in pvm, just make it not work against players. There should be a trade off, you can have ur crazy weap specials pet but it has to be melee only. The hiryu could always dismount, but it couldn't cast you down once it did so.

    Adding mortal to pets was a giant mistake as well, if it's their only special move they spam it constantly.



    Since it is pretty nice to have a pet that moves fast just for following purposes, you could also kill it's movement speed somehow if it attacks a player, then back to normal if attacking anything else
     
    #56 Cetric, May 17, 2017
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
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  7. SoulWeaver

    SoulWeaver King of The Bearded Ladies
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    Yeah exactly what cetric just said....

    Soon as it goes into aggression they need to cut the speed back to normal, once it leaves aggression make it run like a crack head,
     
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  8. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Certifiable

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    Try all you want, but there is no saving PvP after this patch. I'm in a discord with 20+ of the most relevant pvpers (EU and American) and not one of them is even considering logging into OSI outside of Paith. We're all actively playing somewhere else due to this patch. This was the dumbest implementation they could have done. ZERO consideration for PvP or willingness to have an open dialog. They botched the most recent pvp updates, left certain skills in the current loot pub that needed to be addressed and now added pets that can cast and perform specials at an alarming rate with better regens then players.
     
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  9. Fridgster

    Fridgster Slightly Crazed
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    Quite frankly I don't see this as a bad thing. Tamers needed some kind of boost to compete with other templates. If it kills pvp... oh well. I doubt it will but hey here's hoping!
     
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  10. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Certifiable

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    You sounds like a really good person with all kinds of insight to make this game better. Please, contribute to every thread!
     
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  11. Fridgster

    Fridgster Slightly Crazed
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    Thank you. I will. :)
     
  12. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    Perhaps the solution is to add more slayers, perhaps if we could add bird and equine etc slayer weapons/spell books.
     
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  13. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Certifiable

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    Yea, you totally should. I bet you are really good at this game, have contributed to many great implementations and have the most knowledge of game mechanics. You sound like a very helpful person who cares about everyone's game play rather than just your own.
     
  14. King Greg

    King Greg Sage

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    With the resists as high as you can take them now that won't matter unless they remove the player AI damage cap against pets.
     
  15. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Resists+HP too high to take most pets down. Maybe in addition to debuffing the pets 30% vs players which was already done, removing some specials from working on players, and nerfing the movement speed they should make pets also take 30%+ more damage from players to adjust for the60-80 in all resists+ 800 or more hit points
     
  16. aHolyCow

    aHolyCow Visitor

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    These birds are definitely ruining pvp. They do insane damage, spell plagues, mortals, all while running just as fast as the tamer / opponent. The fact that it travels as fast as a player on mount is just plain stupid, and it should not be allowed to dismount without the tamer being on foot.
     
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  17. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    I would suggest making some of these changes before it gets any further out of control. I made a tamer mage for the LoLs so I'm not just saying these things because I died to a pet either. Now that the cats out of the bag and people are training these pets, it's a short matter of time.

    I stuck a phoenix on a guy in despise, and he ran mounted in circles around the island and it kept up with him without getting stuck on anything. Eventually the guy ran into a rock or something and it dismounted him (while I was on mount mind you). I then just slept him and watched the bird mangle his face off. You could probably run around naked on a guy with wrestle and ninja and just watch some of these pets tear up multiple targets.

    Pet PvP is going back to guys just making 4/6 chiv survable chars that just all kill and stay alive, and no one wants that.
     
    #67 Cetric, May 17, 2017
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
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  18. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    Thanks for lols, I needed that today.

    The bird in its current iteration (dismount/mystic/on crack) is a really good counter to 4/6 templates during group pvp. Intended?
     
  19. aHolyCow

    aHolyCow Visitor

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    The bird in its "current iteration" is a really good counter to any template lmao
     
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  20. Larisa

    Larisa Publishing Manager, Stratics Leadership Team
    Editor Reporter Moderator Professional Stratics Veteran Wiki Moderator Stratics Legend Editor Fallen Lords

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    From the recent newsletter...

    4. Do you plan on nerfing the Phoenix?

    We will be adjusting the old Phoenix to match the new Phoenix body as well as adjusting the base damage. We will also be looking at pet speed in a future publish.
     
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  21. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Bad news. I think weapon specials should just not work in pvp. That way the pvmers who actively (and stupidly) seem to wish pvpers would quit wouldn't be bothered, and pvp can go back basically to normal.
     
  22. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    So my top 5 to balance the pets back to a reasonable level:

    1. Reduce movement speed on any pet, at the very least to once they attack a player (150 dex movement speeds).
    2. Pets that can cast spells (Magery, Mystic, Spellweaving, Necro) ) or have other ranged abilities should not be able to dismount
    3. If a player is mounted, and their (non-casting) pet dismounts, the player should be dismounted and on dismount timer
    4. Mortal should not work on a pet versus a player. At the very least, if it must be left, consider also adding it to not work against players when pet has casting schools. This would allow a trade off Ranged/Casting vs Upper Tier Special Moves
    5. In addition to pets dealing 30% less damage to players, they should also take 30%+ more damage from players. Pets with trained resists/hit points are nearly unkillable by many templates.

    I don't see it necessary to totally remove dismount - the hiryu has always had the ability. But coupled with movement speeds, unkillable pets, the dmount timer and casting damage it is incredibly overpowered. The same can be said for Mortal, as pets have never had this ability before
     
    #72 Cetric, May 17, 2017
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
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  23. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    Awww, so they are taking away the go fast? booooooooo!
     
  24. aHolyCow

    aHolyCow Visitor

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    If she means we have to wait for publish 98 to see the bird nerfs I'll take a break. That's about 3-4 months away....
     
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  25. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Nice, but this means it probably won't be changed till at least late summer when the 20th events start. At worst not till september. :/
     
  26. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Yeah, let's get a bunch of players to quit the already very low sub game! Great idea! o_O
     
  27. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    "a future publish" is way too far from now, and pvp will in effect be destroyed or extremely limited by then. It needs to be fixed, like yesterday. @Kyronix @Bleak @Mesanna

    No I and others are not being overly dramatic about this. Right now there is like 3-4 people using the phoenix as of two nights ago. I bet by next week that number will be x6. There are plenty of tamers already abusing the other abilities, dismount mares, mortal mares, mortal bane dragons and the like. Now that they see the effect dex has and being able to stay mounted while it dismounts for you, its just gunna be high dex pets running around mauling everyone.

    Consider the fact on top of everything else, There hasn't even been a complaint about 120 resist on these things yet. Meaning you can't even paralyze them to get away lol.
     
    #77 Cetric, May 17, 2017
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
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  28. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    Weather is nice, fishing is good, you sure you aren't just making excuses to go have fun outside? ;)
     
  29. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Inquisitor
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    Seriuosly PvP is destroyed! :violin: :danceb::danceb::danceb:

    Then maybe they can base the new publishes on the 95% of the playing population.

    I have yet to see one video or picture of a pet killing a Player. Non of mine can kill me.. They cant even keep up with me running. And yes I have high dex pets. They cant even follow me thru luna. But somehow when they go to Fel they can hunt you down.
     
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  30. cobb

    cobb Sage

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    I agree this is rather urgent and It should be fixed immediately.
     
  31. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    You know, in anything I have posted regarding the pets, I have gone out of my way to make suggestions so that the pet is uneffected for pvm usage. I'd be happy to give you a demonstration of my phoenix tonight if you wanna step out?

    One of these days you PvM only players that call for pvp to just be removed, and want to pretend it doesn't exist are gunna get your way. And that will be the quick demise of UO. I'm not gunna turn this thready into that topic, but the entire uo economy is balanced between pvp and pvm. More players pvp than most of you realize, and you'd see it if you cared to step into Fel.
     
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  32. aHolyCow

    aHolyCow Visitor

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    lol you wouldn't survive 30 seconds against a tamer who knows how to play in PVP

    What do you think happens, the tamer tells the pet to kill then sits there? No, the tamer is attacking you with nerve strikes / death strikes / dismount bow shots / mage spell spam

    It's not player vs pet, its player vs player + pet
     
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  33. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    Can we haz nerf now, pweez? :Begging:
     
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  34. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    Not to contradict you, but wouldn't the issue be player and player and player and player and player and player and player and player vs bird and tamer? The odds are still in your favor for an upset, even with that little hellspawn with wings on crack. :D
     
    #84 Restroom Cowboy, May 17, 2017
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
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  35. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Inquisitor
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    Ill be busy having fun. But heres a link to show me how overpowered a pet is. Look at post #3 Welcome to Uhall! (Rules and Information)

    All I ask for is proof all I see from other PvP posters is Conjecture and Fantasies. I see the biggest one is on now. @cobb

    Show me and Ill walkaway from this thread. The PvPers always win these things. Probably why there are so few of them.
     
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  36. cobb

    cobb Sage

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    Pawain is stalking me
     
  37. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Shoot me ur icq, I'll give you a Demo of the power of the phoenix mage
     
  38. aHolyCow

    aHolyCow Visitor

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    Cetric has been running around for a week now with that damn bird pissing me off
     
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  39. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    If they take you up on that, please post a video to the thread. :)
     
  40. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Inquisitor
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    But does he kill you? And if so can you equip something to counter it? Pets lose their attention very easily and they like to hump trees.

    No the alerts tell me who posts to threads I have posted on. Ill go away now.

    BUT THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD FEAR! Not me. They come in faster models also.

    upload_2017-5-17_16-8-45.png
     
  41. cholupa

    cholupa Adventurer

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    Looking at it in a future publish? They need to take a look at pet speed now, not 5 months later
     
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  42. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    I should grab some recording software. Anyone recommend a free one?
     
  43. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    The naja can't learn casting skills, and it's not as fast as the Phoenix. It's also fast tho. It's biggest use is it can run through para fields. I was gunna abuse this pet too until I learned they can't cast spells. They aren't nearly as fast as a phoenix. The Phoenix is also special because it is a bird.
     
  44. The Doctor

    The Doctor Journeyman

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    Surprised bird slayer talismans aren't flying off the shelf. Anyone try the fencing or making masteries to test if it can affect the stats enough to slow one down? As explained it seems one can not pause while running to cast invis to break agro or you will be dismounted. I hear in game from people who have trained this bird that most players are able to outrun and evade this pet. It would suck to pvp if this thing is just mauling skilled players non stop like chopped bird feed. As a tamer I don't own one of these yet. But I am very happy with the variety of choices I have on the pets I am training. I also would like to see video of this beast pecking pvp'ers to death non stop. But this thread has my curiosity up enough to go to fel with a few who already have this pet trained and see if it is as effective and op as claimed by some. I just got to see for myself if players can outrun the peck of death.
     
  45. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Send me contact information, seriously.

    Anyone who wants to see it in action that hasn't yet. We will go to the valley by wrong dungeon, which is a pretty big wide open area. All I'll ask you to do is not leave that pretty big area and see if you can survive. Or kill the thing before you die on anything but another tamer
     
  46. The Doctor

    The Doctor Journeyman

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    I didn't say I wanted to see you in action with it and I do appreciate the invite but as you may have noted in my previous statement I have set an engagement of my own to see for myself. I may take you up on it after I see a few others I know in action with it. If this bird is so fast that you can't outrun it then I feel for your pvp concern. I have not seen video posted on the subject nor seen for myself. I know a few in my alliance with which I can see how bad this bird hurts without concern of other pvp interference. Then I will also see in action in fel and derive if what I am being told about players outrunning it are true. If other players are outrunning it left and right then I have other concerns as to what advantages they have over those who are saying they can't. Like I said my curiosity on the subject is piqued as I am hearing different things in regard to this pet. I am just not one to share concern based on statements alone.
     
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  47. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    It's not JUST the pet. It's the boost to power having a super hard to kill, super hard to avoid, dismount/mortal/casting pet added to other pvp offenses, it's a big boost in power. It's not like the only way this would be imbalanced is if you sick the pet on someone, then just sit there. Tamers sicking thier pets on themselves, and not dying and saying "see there's no problem!" are missing that.

    I think the stupidest part of this is that people like pawain who pitch a fit any time any pvp change has even a tiny impact on her game play, is out here activly, spitefully, rooting for the opposite to happen to others. I mean for christ's sake it's an issue of pets following you a LITTLE slower, yet still faster than they ever did before this publish. The fact that people would rather see pvpers lives messed up for that, boggles my mind.

    I wanna be clear I don't pvp at all, and I play tamer most of the time, and I play on a shard where I have to protect myself from pvpers all the time, and a pvp focused phoenix would be a great help to me in that arena, but I don't want the game play of others to be ruined, especially on shards with the fel tram split where trammies can tram away to their heart's content. We should all want everything to be balanced and everyone to be as happy as possible!
     
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  48. de LEET ed

    de LEET ed Lore Master

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    Now Now Donnie, lets not pretend all those people are relevant pvpers. Carry on.
     
  49. Slayvite

    Slayvite Babbling Loonie
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    So if we've finally gotten rid of the remaining PvP stragglers.....
    Can we now get around to making UO all about the PvM again and reverse all those nerfs which ruined PvM that were put in place to stop the PvP'ers crying?
     
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  50. Fridgster

    Fridgster Slightly Crazed
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    You know I think this is the exact reason I am so snarky about this topic. This revamp finally made playing my tamer fun again.
    However once again here comes a very small fraction of the player base (like it or not) immediately trying to nerf this and nerf that. It's irritating.
    All I can say is that I hope @Kyronix @Bleak take into account that the publish is a great success overall. I havnt seen this many people playing in YEARS. Excitement is at an all time high. Please don't nerf it to the point where the publish becomes irrelevant.
     
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