Does UO put up with bullying??

[Ned888]

From my perspective, EA does NOT condone bullying in any form, and I'm certain that EA/Mythic/UO doesn't condone it either.

The issue here may be one of perspective. The GM who answers the page and reviews the complaint might not consider the issue as a serious matter. It's part of being an imperfect human being.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, but each person responds to situations based on their personal experiences and opinions (not that you could tell by these boards! ).

If EA has a specific policy in place it might be too weak and open to interpretation, but on the flip side, if they crack down and tighten it up, there will be a lot of unhappy campers who get banned for seemingly minor infractions. It's a knife's edge.

Either way, I think training is key here. Being a GM is a thankless and difficult job and no matter how you arbitrate a situation, you are going to get one party or the other flaming you.

 

[Kellgory]

This behavior has been going on for about as long as UO been online. The only difference is that now people are able to use general chat so everyone sees it. Where in the past, if you wanted to trash talk to someone, you had to pretty much do it to their face, and if they didn't want to participate then they could simply leave. I don't mind the trash talking as long as the leave the personal and RL crap out of it. People play the game to have fun and for some to escape for a while from RL problems, and they don't need to be constently bashed about how their job or lack of job does't measure up to someone elsea, or that a higher being does't like you because a family member has medical problems or disabilites.

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

Yes we do. This isn't a new problem. I've seen it tons of it on my shard after 11 years of playing UO. I've seen things such as: "go kill ur self" , "Go drink bleach", Y don't U kill ur self, no one likes U and you should die". That's just the TIP of the iceberg. I have seen horrible slurs, against women, against African Americans, Native Americans(First Nations), Asians, and the perrienal favorite Arabic people.


I've seen bullying right here in this forum, too.

I feel like that alot of bullying goes on here in Uhall not just by the regular posters but by the stratics staff as well.

I agree 100% percent with the person that said if they had to raise their children now they'd have to think real hard before they'd consider letting the near a MMO.

If I could have children (which I cannot) I wouldn't even let them near the internet without me sitting right next to them, period!

Having had TWO family members treated for clincal depression, you don't know what will push a severely depressed person over the edge. It isn't freedom of speech to bullying someone and tell them to go kill themselves.

Let me ask you this would you say that to someone's face at your place of work? How about at Wal-mart, the mall, at your chosen house of worship?

What makes it okay on the internet?

 

[Mervyn]

I fail to see how anything said or done in a game can affect anyone in real life.

 

[Old Man of UO]

I fail to see how anything said or done in a game can affect anyone in real life.

Spoken like a bully who tries to justify their own actions.

 

[old gypsy]

I fail to see how anything said or done in a game can affect anyone in real life.

How bulllying affects individuals can vary widely. I expect the majority of adults can generally shrug it off and move on. However, as someone else mentioned, people struggling with conditions such as clinical depression may take it to heart and trully suffer as a result. Younger people, especially children and teens, are often extremely vulnerable when they find themselves on the receiving end of verbal abuse, whether online or anywhere else.

For myself, I don't stick around if I run into unpleasant players. But I believe you're mistaken when you say people can't be affected by the actions of others in a game. If a player can be positively affected (when an in-game friend does something nice for them, for example), they can also be negatively affected when someone is deliberately abusive and hateful.

 

[pgib]

Does being severely ticked off about it count as a clinical depression?

 

[temu]

I fail to see how anything said or done in a game can affect anyone in real life.

I agree, for the most part. UO is actually pretty tame compared to the things I hear everyday on other online games where there is no moderation what so ever. Everyone has to steel themselves and expect it. I'm all for reporting offenders though, and issuing punishments, but I hope no one ever gets permanent bans for simple text harassment.

 

[Mervyn]

I regularly get taunted by a certain guild in general chat about my wife having cancer. All sort of nasty things are being said, but I'm told they are not breaking the TOS and I have to just either put them on ignore or told not to log into general chat.

Exodus 21:28
If a bull gores a man or woman to death, the bull is to be stoned to death, and its meat must not be eaten. But the owner of the bull will not be held responsible.

Mervyn, dictator of 2.0

 

[Woodsman]

This isn't political stuff. Its constitutional law and people's lack of understanding. For instance, just because we agree by a companies TOS,does not then allow people to ignore the Constitution. The great thing about our Constitution is that they provide us rights that we are not able to simply sign away. No company can place something in their TOS that violates the Constitution, well they could place it in there but it wouldn't hold up in court.

LOL, it's not constitutional law, it's a private company and UO is a private forum.

I can't even believe you would confuse the two.

You can't sue me in court and say I violated your constitutional rights if I kicked you out of my house for saying something I didn't like, because my house is not a public forum where free speech laws apply. The same applies to UO - EA routinely boots people out of the Origin.com forums, SWTOR.com forums, BioWare.com forums, because those are not areas where you have protected free speech.

Besides, a lot of UO players are not from the US.

 

[old gypsy]

Does being severely ticked off about it count as a clinical depression?

LOL... I think one might call being "ticked off" a natural and understandable reaction, as long as it doesn't result in an escalation of the situation.

 

[Tazar]

This isn't political stuff. Its constitutional law and people's lack of understanding. For instance, just because we agree by a companies TOS, does not then allow people to ignore the Constitution. The great thing about our Constitution is that they provide us rights that we are not able to simply sign away. No company can place something in their TOS that violates the Constitution, well they could place it in there but it wouldn't hold up in court.

If the hazing/bullying got bad enough, and it was proven that UO was unwilling to do anything about it then its possible for UO to be found liable for not following their own TOS.

There is a difference in hate speech and fighting words. I recommend people research for themselves so that they may be knowledgeable about their rights.

The constitution protects the right of free speech from government action. If has nothing to do with private forums or anything between individuals.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

I just mean its alot more common now, not just with online games. Its just sad it is just now coming to mainstream attention and being fought, at least with social media.

No offense but serious bullying has been around forever. It is not more common now. There are simply different ways to do it now. Most specifically, the internet.

I have 3 children and I can say for a fact that even though towns/schools talk about it alot it is no different then 35 years ago when I was in the same school system my children are in now.

People thinking or wanting to believe that it is more common now and being fought more effectively are foolish and part of the problem IMO.

There is alot more psycho-babble and a hundred new acronyms for the ways it is supposedly being fought but they are seriously a joke in my school system and it is very highly rated & in one of the top 10 wealthiest counties in the entire US.

Everyone agrees that bullying is terrible yet most people are too concerned with 'constitutional rights' to truly combat it effectively and correctly.

 

[Lady Storm]

Do we condone it just because you have seen it not change for the 35 years you have seen it??
Did you try to stop it??

Christmas/ Winter is one of the worst times for a depressed person according to mental health officials. Some of the public dont even know they suffer from depression...

It takes one small act to stop this, one word that its not ok... its up to us. You see it in game ..Say something! Yes you might get shot down at first but you did something. Not doing anything is giving them the right to do it. If EA wont stop it ITS UP TO US.
Speak out. Tell the person on chat to quit it. Yes you wont be popular but you tried.
Look around you in the rl. Your kids, your family could be the next to find someone you love to have done something rash because of this hate.

 

[evil randy]

The constitution protects the right of free speech from government action. If has nothing to do with private forums or anything between individuals.

I'm not the one saying it did. I'm actively saying that the 1st amendment doesn't protect people from saying whatever they want. As in you can not bully people and use the 1st amendment as a scapegoat to your actions.

 

[Woodsman]

I'm not the one saying it did.

Even though it's not directed at me, I apologize for misunderstanding you. I thought you were saying that the Constitution/1st Amendment applies to UO when it clearly doesn't.

 

[Njjj]

I fail to see how anything said or done in a game can affect anyone in real life.

It's got nothing to do with the game. It's direct communication between individuals. No different than chat, facebook, phone, whatever.

 

[Zosimus]

I am demanding eveyone that has posted so far in this thread your lunch money or else


I agree there are issues and it is pretty much in every other game out there. Some games police it more.

UO there isn't much policing. Ignore feature can be used but that can be half the populace on a shard when you are done.

Then again players asked for years for a general chat and the devs finally gave it. Worse mistake ever happen imo. Before if you was getting trashed talk or harrased in the game you could just leave the area. Now its all over the game screen even if you are just crafting and minding your own business.

Can't police the guy walking down a sidewalk cussing when you are walking with your kid up the sidewalk. If you say something to the individual it usually gets worse then better. Trust me I have a neighbor thinks the f word is every part of the english vocabulary. When I say something to him he usually quits for a few sentences then does it again.

Plus this is the interweb we are talking about. Bullying in UO is mostly a person you would not ever meet in real life. It's a social issue but if they even banned such offenders then there goes alot of UO population who loses control in the game.

The best way to deal with it is to get rid of general chat imo. Posting on here stratics may get some discussion on it but for most part players will still act the same way uinless they actually the devs start banning people.


Btw......where is my money at peeps :gun:

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Do we condone it just because you have seen it not change for the 35 years you have seen it??
Did you try to stop it??

Christmas/ Winter is one of the worst times for a depressed person according to mental health officials. Some of the public dont even know they suffer from depression...

It takes one small act to stop this, one word that its not ok... its up to us. You see it in game ..Say something! Yes you might get shot down at first but you did something. Not doing anything is giving them the right to do it. If EA wont stop it ITS UP TO US.
Speak out. Tell the person on chat to quit it. Yes you wont be popular but you tried.
Look around you in the rl. Your kids, your family could be the next to find someone you love to have done something rash because of this hate.

You quite obviously have reading/comprehension issues.

I never said I condone it so please keep that nonsense to yourself next time. I also never claimed to have been involved in talking someone down from suicide at their comp. No offense but I wonder about that.

Either way I am adult enough to realize that naively saying things like "it's up to us to stop bullying" is kinda like pissing in the wind. Any reason you felt the need to involve medical depression in this discussion? You can say all you want but it is in fact up to each individual bully to stop bullying. Please spare us all with the group blame.

What I find kinda odd though is that someone so obviously zealous about bullying and anti-social behavior in general is playing a game clearly labelled as Violent. A game that involves stealing & killing. Do you not understand that these things go hand in hand with other anti social acts such as bullying? Even if you personally are not involved in the baser aspects of the game you really are promoting them just by paying your $13 a month per account.
The very nature of this game almost promotes bullying yet you have how many accounts Lady Storm?
Kinda like preaching safe sex in a *****house if you ask me lol.

Just saying...

 

[evil randy]

The very nature of this game almost promotes bullying yet you have how many accounts Lady Storm?

The nature of the game certainly allows for bullying to take place. That can be said about any game with competition involved. Anytime someone is keeping score there is a potential for bullying. That doesn't mean we should condone disrespectful, belligerent, or antagonistic play styles. There is a reason most sports punish their players for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Bullying and other unsportsmanlike conduct pushes people away from the game, it does not bring people in. Simply put, Its bad for business. Ask NASCAR who actually fined a driver for giving the bird to another driver or Tiger Woods who was fined for spitting on the green earlier this year.

The thing is, there are standards in every game. Its not only up to the players of the game to set the standards, but the people who run the game. Enforcing those standards is the responsibility of UO and EA. We the players can provide peer pressure, but we simply can not stop players from acting inappropriately.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

The very nature of this game almost promotes bullying yet you have how many accounts Lady Storm?

The nature of the game certainly allows for bullying to take place. That can be said about any game with competition involved. Anytime someone is keeping score there is a potential for bullying. That doesn't mean we should condone disrespectful, belligerent, or antagonistic play styles. There is a reason most sports punish their players for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Bullying and other unsportsmanlike conduct pushes people away from the game, it does not bring people in. Simply put, Its bad for business. Ask NASCAR who actually fined a driver for giving the bird to another driver or Tiger Woods who was fined for spitting on the green earlier this year.

The thing is, there are standards in every game. Its not only up to the players of the game to set the standards, but the people who run the game. Enforcing those standards is the responsibility of UO and EA. We the players can provide peer pressure, but we simply can not stop players from acting inappropriately.

I am sorry but any game with the word Violent in the rating certainly has more potential for bullying. There is a rating system in place for good reason.

And btw, spitting in public or flipping the bird are not acts of bullying so what was your point?

You are quite obviously confusing bad sportsmanship(not cool either)with bullying.
Bullying is a very serious, longterm issue that has huge ramifications. Bad sportsmanship has also been around forever but as far as I know people are not killing themselves because someone over zealously celebrated a touchdown or a race car driver flipped the bird.

 

[Adol]

It's the sign of the truly weak mind that it doesn't believe it can affect, or doesn't care that it does affect someone else; it's a narcissistic, fantastical approach to life that can only succeed where it persuades itself first that life is big and simple and brutal and doesn't require any empathy and thought for others, and then relies on persuading others that they cannot fight to defend themselves from your simplistic selfishness.

Yet all the things that are worth living for, art and friendship and understanding and yes, even enjoyable free time within this game, depend upon people being prepared to carve out an alternative space where the more complex and difficult to construct experiences lie... Things that require talent and struggle and intelligence and sacrifice; Which means being prepared to keep a space clear from the sociopaths and selfish, the distorting and demonizing, and just being able to insist "There are finer things in life than just f- this and f- that".

So yes, report those people being abusive. Not because it will change their mind; if they could do that, they wouldn't be so mentally limited in the first place. Not because the GMs will take any action; they may, and they may not. But report them anyway because the first step in their getting you to give up on living your own life is to persuade you that you are powerless and should be ashamed of aiming for better. Do it for yourself, refuse to be ashamed or accept numbing aggressive mediocrity, and embrace instead the concept of being able to take action in the name of something greater.

Do it not because it's easy, or fun. But because it's right. And let no one ever tell you it's not.

And in acting so, those who were genuinely suffering from the idiocy will notice that someone out there in the world noticed them and their pain in turn. And will hopefully gain a little bit of strength they wouldn't have otherwise had from seeing you struggle to do something better for them than what everyone else has become.


Meanwhile, an interesting article on Facebook's announcement yesterday on how it's expanding it's support for suicidal users