Discussing Balance

[Revan123]

so no if they don't add your suggestions, got it.

Idk what this means. Be more clear.

So 12.5 from a necro is better than 15 from a pure mage and + 10 if you have inscribe to all resist types?????? Mate are you having trouble with basic math???

No... it's not better... and it's not supposed to be, or there would be no point playing a focus spec mage. But it should be better than it is, and a 20sdi necro that could reduce your max fire and poison resists to 55 would be a pretty effective template 1v1 and group wise. And scribe is another skill altogether. It's irrelevant. You can play a necro mage with scribe.

If they buff other things about necro I have no problem with corpse and curse not stacking until then corpse and curse should stack

No, they should never stack. It allows for far too much damage to be done.

Wrong because my box was doing 7-20 so yes it is a great solution

Lol... So... omen will increase the damage of something by 10-20 points (at most), and you think boxing yourself for the same amount of damage balances the OP'ness of corpseskin + curse + omen stacks?

All a tank mage has to do is curse, run off screen pre cast an explosion and pray for rng casting focus so you can get off the flamestrike ai.

When you play a tank mage and can actually kill me with that combo, I'll give your opinion on it some credibility.

Are you having trouble following what happened? in the gif he didn't take all that damage WHILE RUNNING he stopped in an attempt to get a hide off.

I think you completely missed the point... If you think the debuff combo with archers is anything close to a tank mage combo, then you probably need to consider staying in trammel.

Do you even pvp? There are different options you can precast the explosion or you can hope for your casting focus to go off. Why are you talking about melee distance only for the mage but not the dexxer? There are melee dexxers and archer mages too... The mage combo can be quicker and is just as easy as the archer combo.

Do you even pvp? Lol. No... it's not quicker. At this point I'm about to just start ignoring you.

 

[Parthis]

Re bane's comment

"In gen's gif he was taking all that damage WHILE RUNNING. If you can't see how that is broken, I think you need to try to stop zero'ing in on little facts and start trying to understand the big picture."


Have you actually watched the gif? And seen geni try and hide? banedawg at his finest, only looking through a key hole, to help his own points and trying to convince people he is correct when the facts clearly state otherwise... GENI STOPPED

 

[Revan123]

LOLOLOLOL. Thanks for proving my point. Only reason to throw damage pot is to either avoid losing the fight or in a choke to give yourself an advantage. Either way its to remove real skill from the fight.

Thanks for proving your point? I didn't prove your point. I proved my point lol. I think YOU are proving MY point. You just said that the only reason to throw a "damage pot" is to either avoid losing the fight or in a choke to give yourself an advantage. Uhh... Yeah... and? Isn't that the reason you do ANYTHING in a fight? To avoid losing the fight? And what is wrong with giving yourself an advantage in a choke point situation? Does the fact that it's effective in chokes mean that it doesn't take skill?

Thanks for showing everyone its more about yourself then about actually balancing pvp for the real players. I also want to add that without 3rd party programs bane you wouldn't last more then ten seconds in any real fight period. You lack any real vision of true pvp and are counted among the 3rd party users scrubs. Basically your just a number not a player.

Uhhh... Lol? First off, who are these "real players"? And secondly, you think I wouldn't last 10 seconds in any real fight against you? Lmao. Are you brain dead? Stillborn, I would utterly destroy you. It's not even close.

 

[Revan123]

Sure, I could buy that. What do you propose?

I already made a long post stating what I propose. I made about 14 suggestions (I think it was).

 

[OREOGL]

I already made a long post stating what I propose. I made about 14 suggestions (I think it was).

Yeah, we are now looking to develope them into some sort of useable form.

As it stands now suggestions over 20 pages doesn't seem like a good way to get the point across.

Any thoughts on how to go through these now, and begin facilitating these as solutions instead of suggestions?

 

[OREOGL]

Re bane's comment

"In gen's gif he was taking all that damage WHILE RUNNING. If you can't see how that is broken, I think you need to try to stop zero'ing in on little facts and start trying to understand the big picture."


Have you actually watched the gif? And seen geni try and hide? banedawg at his finest, only looking through a key hole, to help his own points and trying to convince people he is correct when the facts clearly state otherwise... GENI STOPPED

Why are you concerned that he tried to hide?

The fact the a single hit did 61 points if damage along with hit spells should be the focus here.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

Why are you concerned that he tried to hide?

The fact the a single hit did 61 points if damage along with hit spells should be the focus here.

Pretty sure you can do 60+ without corpse with just omen+Conc.

Omen+Deathstrike also does 70.

So...

 

[Revan123]

Re bane's comment

"In gen's gif he was taking all that damage WHILE RUNNING. If you can't see how that is broken, I think you need to try to stop zero'ing in on little facts and start trying to understand the big picture."


Have you actually watched the gif? And seen geni try and hide? banedawg at his finest, only looking through a key hole, to help his own points and trying to convince people he is correct when the facts clearly state otherwise... GENI STOPPED

Except... he wasn't stopped when he took the damage. He might have stopped for 3/4ths of a second, but he didn't take the damage when he stopped. As a matter of fact he was running for about 2.25 seconds AFTER stopping before he even began taking damage. So someone takes an IMMENSE amount of damage all because they stop for 3 quarters of a second, and you think the problem with that situation is that they stopped for 3 quarters of a second? Again, if you can't see how that is broken, you need to stop zero'ing in on little facts and start trying to understand the big picture.

 

[Revan123]

Yeah, we are now looking to develope them into some sort of useable form.

As it stands now suggestions over 20 pages doesn't seem like a good way to get the point across.

Any thoughts on how to go through these now, and begin facilitating these as solutions instead of suggestions?

Writing "20 pages" is a very good way to get a point across. If you don't explain why you make a suggestion, then how are people supposed to understand it's relevance?

Idk what you mean about "any thoughts on how to go through these now, and begin facilitating these as solutions instead of suggestions." How exactly are they supposed to be "facilitated as solutions instead of suggestions"? Right now they are suggestions and solutions... they are suggested solutions...

I made suggestions. These suggestions will make certain abilities and/or templates more competitive and/or fun, without severely diminishing the fun and/or usefulness of currently viable templates. The only way to make them actual solutions I guess would be if they were implemented...

If you'd like to discuss any of my suggestions, I will gladly explain why I think we should implement it; it's direct effect, and that direct effect's overall effect on PvP.

 

[OREOGL]

Pretty sure you can do 60+ without corpse with just omen+Conc.

Omen+Deathstrike also does 70.

So...

You're saying that's okay?

In this case I vote to remove the cap in armor ignore.

 

[OREOGL]

Writing "20 pages" is a very good way to get a point across. If you don't explain why you make a suggestion, then how are people supposed to understand it's relevance?

Idk what you mean about "any thoughts on how to go through these now, and begin facilitating these as solutions instead of suggestions." How exactly are they supposed to be "facilitated as solutions instead of suggestions"? Right now they are suggestions and solutions... they are suggested solutions...

I made suggestions. These suggestions will make certain abilities and/or templates more competitive and/or fun, without severely diminishing the fun and/or usefulness of currently viable templates. The only way to make them actual solutions I guess would be if they were implemented...

If you'd like to discuss any of my suggestions, I will gladly explain why I think we should implement it; it's direct effect, and that direct effect's overall effect on PvP.

I think you're missing the point.

We have made suggestions across 20 pages. Are you saying you want to leave it at that, and let the devs decide which ones should be implemented?

Or do we take these points, consolidate them into a useable
Form, and either agree as a group or just throw that at the devs.

I'm not sure we want to take the first approach, but hey that's always an option.

Suggestions are not solutions until implemented. How should we go about seeing which ones we should go with?

Of course, you'd like to use your own suggestions, but clearly not everyone agrees with them.

How do we bridge that gap?

 

[PaithanTheElf]

You're saying that's okay?

In this case I vote to remove the cap in armor ignore.

I am fine with that those combos.

But, it sounds more like you have a problem with omen because that is what makes them do the increased damage.

 

[Revan123]

I think you're missing the point.

We have made suggestions across 20 pages. Are you saying you want to leave it at that, and let the devs decide which ones should be implemented?

Or do we take these points, consolidate them into a useable
Form, and either agree as a group or just throw that at the devs.

I'm not sure we want to take the first approach, but hey that's always an option.

Suggestions are not solutions until implemented. How should we go about seeing which ones we should go with?

Of course, you'd like to use your own suggestions, but clearly not everyone agrees with them.

How do we bridge that gap?

You were not clear at all by what you meant. And in regards to deciding as a group what we should implement, we should just not do that. I know many are offended when I say this, and take it as me being condescending, but as I've already stated, most people here do not understand game mechanics and balance; and neither do the developers, so they will probably just end up making some ******** changes anyway.

 

[OREOGL]

I am fine with that those combos.

But, it sounds more like you have a problem with omen because that is what makes them do the increased damage.

The only issue I see with it, is being able to do 60 points from a concussion where you're capping an AI at 35, 42 points both with omen.

Is this balanced? Not really.

 

[OREOGL]

You were not clear at all by what you meant. And in regards to deciding as a group what we should implement, we should just not do that. I know many are offended when I say this, and take it as me being condescending, but as I've already stated, most people here do not understand game mechanics and balance; and neither do the developers, so they will probably just end up making some ******** changes anyway.

My mistake for not being clearer.

And it's fine if you think that's the best route, since it is an option, but historically that seems to have taken us all for a turn for the worse.

 

[Critical Gaming]

I think ansyears is just trolling lol

 

[Revan123]

My mistake for not being clearer.

And it's fine if you think that's the best route, since it is an option, but historically that seems to have taken us all for a turn for the worse.

Historically? These developers have never gone with one of my suggestions, so idk what you're talking about. I can guarantee though that if people gave my suggestions a chance they would come to approve of the changes in time- not that they will ever be given a chance. I don't know why I even bother to post here tbh.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

The only issue I see with it, is being able to do 60 points from a concussion where you're capping an AI at 35, 42 points both with omen.

Is this balanced? Not really.

Maybe you are forgetting the days when AI did not have a cap. Eeeek.

Do you want every special to have the same damage? I don't get it. If someone has 75-80 phys.. AI will still do the 35 damage. I think specials are meant to be different.

If you think that conc blow is the overpowered special.. then use that instead of AI? I don't get it. No one is forcing you to AI.

 

[OREOGL]

Historically? These developers have never gone with one of my suggestions, so idk what you're talking about. I can guarantee though that if people gave my suggestions a chance they would come to approve of the changes in time- not that they will ever be given a chance. I don't know why I even bother to post here tbh.

I wasn't referring to you particularly.

This isn't the Hot boards buddy, no need to constantly be defensive.

I'm saying when left to make their own decisions from a group of information, it hasn't been favorable.

 

[OREOGL]

Maybe you are forgetting the days when AI did not have a cap. Eeeek.

Do you want every special to have the same damage? I don't get it. If someone has 75-80 phys.. AI will still do the 35 damage. I think specials are meant to be different.

If you think that conc blow is the overpowered special.. then use that instead of AI? I don't get it. No one is forcing you to AI.

I was really being rhetorical to make a point. I don't really think they should drop the cap.

As far as using concussion, I could use it, sure. But when we talk about balance and having more templates,
I'm not sure it's optimal to have people lean towards a specific special like concussion because it does more damage.


As far as having the same damage, there could be some argument to be made there I suppose, but not one I'm willing to invest time in supporting.

Just a random thought though, do you think PVP was more balanced when relying on RNG before specials? Or do you think the addition of specials make it more skill based? Just curious, there's no agenda behind the question.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

I was really being rhetorical to make a point. I don't really think they should drop the cap.

As far as using concussion, I could use it, sure. But when we talk about balance and having more templates,
I'm not sure it's optimal to have people lean towards a specific special like concussion because it does more damage.


As far as having the same damage, there could be some argument to be made there I suppose, but not one I'm willing to invest time in supporting.

Just a random thought though, do you think PVP was more balanced when relying on RNG before specials? Or do you think the addition of specials make it more skill based? Just curious, there's no agenda behind the question.

Jeez Louis.. you are going back a LOOOOONG time to talk about before specials. Before specials was pre aos a completely different UO then it is today.

But, to try and answer the question.. i think what makes someone skilled with specials is knowing how and when to use the right special move. For instance if someone goes on foot- a skilled dexer would either para shot mages trying to target the guy on foot or disarm the dexers going on him. Little things like that can change a fight and would be where I would give the nod to someone being "skilled" with specials.

Keep in mind I have not toggled a special on since they implemented auto toggle off specials with spell casting.

 

[drcossack]

Yeah, believe it or not, there is a skill to knowing when to conflag, where to conflag, or when to nova. I used to synchronize nova's with other good pvp'ers to disrupt cross heals over a period of time, which is probably something far more advanced than anything you've ever done.

But your attack on my skill and my intelligence is humorous.

Bane, over the past few months, I have gotten SEVERAL 1v1 kills without needing a single conflag or nova. Some of which had no business happening (i.e. the kills of a 4/6 holy fist mage, which, even with a Colossus, had no business happening), while others were done while I was outnumbered. All of them were done by taking full advantage of my template (Colossus and/or Stone Form+Protection on a Mystic) or figuring out a specific weakness in the player's template (constantly being able to poison them.)

If you really need to sync novas to disrupt xheals, maybe you should, oh, idk, get better at killing the person before they get said heals? I can sync dump (with no pots needed) without any difficulty, whether it's with another mage or an archer.

Historically? These developers have never gone with one of my suggestions, so idk what you're talking about. I can guarantee though that if people gave my suggestions a chance they would come to approve of the changes in time- not that they will ever be given a chance. I don't know why I even bother to post here tbh.

Maybe because most of them suck and are completely self-serving?

 

[OREOGL]

Jeez Louis.. you are going back a LOOOOONG time to talk about before specials. Before specials was pre aos a completely different UO then it is today.

But, to try and answer the question.. i think what makes someone skilled with specials is knowing how and when to use the right special move. For instance if someone goes on foot- a skilled dexer would either para shot mages trying to target the guy on foot or disarm the dexers going on him. Little things like that can change a fight and would be where I would give the nod to someone being "skilled" with specials.

Keep in mind I have not toggled a special on since they implemented auto toggle off specials with spell casting.

Do you not use specials because of the templates you're playing? I assume this is a Mage variety template.

I do agree that specials added to the skill sets though. And for the most part seem to be balanced.

Prior to specials I specifically recall a lot of mindless RNG. Many people could not figure out the magic that happened when you'd chug a strength and dexterity potion.

They looked in awe when Id level groups of them with lumber jacking and a double axe after having chugged them.

It's interesting to me to see the different dynamics of what we all consider to be balanced.


But, I digress. I apologize for the short derailment.

 

[ansyears]

Idk what this means. Be more clear.

It is pretty clear, go back and read what i quoted.

No... it's not better... and it's not supposed to be, or there would be no point playing a focus spec mage. But it should be better than it is, and a 20sdi necro that could reduce your max fire and poison resists to 55 would be a pretty effective template 1v1 and group wise. And scribe is another skill altogether. It's irrelevant. You can play a necro mage with scribe.

You said if a mage was able to get someone to 55 resist it would be worth to make necro mages, but now you are adding in 20 sdi? So explain to me why anyone would pick a 15 sdi necro mage to get 12.5% dmg bonus over 15 +10 from a pure mage.

No, they should never stack. It allows for far too much damage to be done.

No it doesn't

Lol... So... omen will increase the damage of something by 10-20 points (at most), and you think boxing yourself for the same amount of damage balances the OP'ness of corpseskin + curse + omen stacks?

Wait you don't think boxing yourself for 7 damage is a good idea? There are other options too, do you know about a spell called weaken?

When you play a tank mage and can actually kill me with that combo, I'll give your opinion on it some credibility.

Same goes for you when you can kill me on a necro dexxer.

I think you completely missed the point... If you think the debuff combo with archers is anything close to a tank mage combo, then you probably need to consider staying in trammel.

You have no clue what are you talking about

Do you even pvp? Lol. No... it's not quicker. At this point I'm about to just start ignoring you.

If you are on a necro and keep omening someone that keeps taking off the omen + your chance to miss you could be there all day. The tank mage is able to pre cast the explosion and only needs to get the casting focus flamestrike + rng ai

 

[PaithanTheElf]

Do you not use specials because of the templates you're playing? I assume this is a Mage variety template.

I do agree that specials added to the skill sets though. And for the most part seem to be balanced.

Prior to specials I specifically recall a lot of mindless RNG. Many people could not figure out the magic that happened when you'd chug a strength and dexterity potion.

They looked in awe when Id level groups of them with lumber jacking and a double axe after having chugged them.

It's interesting to me to see the different dynamics of what we all consider to be balanced.


But, I digress. I apologize for the short derailment.

I have never played a dexter. But, the last time I had specials I was a necro mage/fencer. It was the most fun template I ever played in UO. Sigh.

I think mage templates that use wep skills are more for 1v1. I prefer group templates. And I am UO poor and hate farming.. so... I would not waste my time building a 1v1 suit.

 

[ansyears]

I think ansyears is just trolling lol

I'm trolling? you are the one that is saying 12.5 damage increase from -5 fire and poison makes it worth playing a 15 sdi necro mage over a 30 sdi + 10 to all resist types pure mage.

 

[Critical Gaming]

No I'm not. I simply said I think it would be a good idea to make corpse skin lower your fire to 55 regardless of being focused or not. A good focused buff in my opinion would be 30 SDI + buffed spirit speak heals. They did a fix similar to this with DCI overcapping because HLD was useless much like corpse skin is.

You're arguing against points you made up yourself I guess? Regardless, you're really degrading this conversation. It went from discussing PvP balance to pages of misunderstandings, discussing how a 40SDI mage does more damage than a 15 SDI mage.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

Paith and I are both old fans of Necros and good at the template and both of us will tell you that necros are garbage- and the evidence is that neither of us play them anymore.

I didn't even know you ever played a necro.

Don't lump me into the same category of necros as you. Thanks.

 

[CovenantX]

Why?

So should we remove the sdi bonus from scribe? And the Mysticism SDI bonus from imbuing? And the dmg inc bonus from Lumberjacking? I mean, you aren't making very valid points. You just sound like someone who doesn't like alchemy and wants it changed because you don't utilize it yourself.

Alchemy +50% base & +30% EP =+> Scribe = 10% SDI & 5% CF ,people will always pick alchemy over any other "crafting skill", It's odd you'd mention Imbuing for mysticism. -No one uses that.
because Focus + Imbuing do not stack with each other, since Focus gives mana regen in addition to the same "SDI" to mystic that Imbuing would.

Any dexer template with lumberjacking? Lumberjacking = 30% DI (+ 10% chance of 100% DI) they wouldn't have LJ, they'd have Alchemy if they had 100.0 skill left over... I mean who the hell would pick LJ over Alchemy? -The point is Alchemy is Over-powered, OR Everything else is Under-Powered (both = same thing).

"How you use it" most certainly matters to some extent, but some templates are simply better than others; and that said, Necros are garbage these days. Paith and I are both old fans of Necros and good at the template and both of us will tell you that necros are garbage- and the evidence is that neither of us play them anymore.

edit: I would GLADLY make a necro if it were competitively viable again- but as of now it's not even close.

"The evidence is that neither of us play them anymore" Necro hasn't changed. the corpse skin update didn't even effect almost any templates that existed before the update... how is necro garbage?

 

[Revan123]

I wasn't referring to you particularly.

This isn't the Hot boards buddy, no need to constantly be defensive.

I'm saying when left to make their own decisions from a group of information, it hasn't been favorable.

No need to be defensive? What are you talking about? You directed your statement at me, if you don't want me to misinterpret it then you need to be more clear. Not trying to attack you here, but you're not being clear at all with your posts.

 

[Revan123]

I was really being rhetorical to make a point. I don't really think they should drop the cap.

As far as using concussion, I could use it, sure. But when we talk about balance and having more templates,
I'm not sure it's optimal to have people lean towards a specific special like concussion because it does more damage.


As far as having the same damage, there could be some argument to be made there I suppose, but not one I'm willing to invest time in supporting.

Just a random thought though, do you think PVP was more balanced when relying on RNG before specials? Or do you think the addition of specials make it more skill based? Just curious, there's no agenda behind the question.

When relying on RNG before specials? What do you mean? Again, you're not really being clear.

 

[Revan123]

Bane, over the past few months, I have gotten SEVERAL 1v1 kills without needing a single conflag or nova. Some of which had no business happening (i.e. the kills of a 4/6 holy fist mage, which, even with a Colossus, had no business happening), while others were done while I was outnumbered. All of them were done by taking full advantage of my template (Colossus and/or Stone Form+Protection on a Mystic) or figuring out a specific weakness in the player's template (constantly being able to poison them.)

If you really need to sync novas to disrupt xheals, maybe you should, oh, idk, get better at killing the person before they get said heals? I can sync dump (with no pots needed) without any difficulty, whether it's with another mage or an archer.

......? wtf? Lol

I don't even know what your point was... Great DC said that the point of getting rid of supernova potions and conflags is because it would "bring more skill back to pvp"- when it reality it would just make it impossible to kill anyone decent while on a mage; so I responded by pointing out that using conflags and nova's wisely does take skill; and now your response is that... you have gotten "SEVERAL" 1v1 kills while in stone form with a colossus, and that I should get better at killing people before they get heals- which is a totally irrelevant point to make (it would be like saying, let's get rid of poison, because you should be good enough to kill people before you need to use it).

So let me get this straight... because it's possibly for you to get "SEVERAL" kills on complete scrubs without novas/conflags (and lets be honest, if someone dies to just a mage/s without novas or conflags they are probably really really bad), while you're in stone form (and let's be honest, if they are dying to you while you're in stone form, they are probably really really really bad) that means that we should do away with supernovas and/or conflags?

 

[Revan123]

It is pretty clear, go back and read what i quoted.

No... it wasn't clear.

You said if a mage was able to get someone to 55 resist it would be worth to make necro mages, but now you are adding in 20 sdi? So explain to me why anyone would pick a 15 sdi necro mage to get 12.5% dmg bonus over 15 +10 from a pure mage.

I did not say if a mage was able to get someone to 55 resist it would be worth it to make necro mages, I said it would go a long way in making necro mages viable again. Read more carefully. And yes, 20 sdi and an un-interruptable spiritspeak would go a long way in helping that.

No it doesn't

I said corpse skin and curse "should NEVER stack," and your response was to say, "no it doesn't." Again... you're not being clear.

Wait you don't think boxing yourself for 7 damage is a good idea? There are other options too, do you know about a spell called weaken?

Lol is this guy for real? Do I know about a spell called weaken? Do you know about a thing called pvp? Lol. First off, it's not 7 damage. It's a lot more than 7 damage- and yes, it's not worth it if you end up taking more damage from the box than you would have from the damage anyway. And secondly, yes, of course I know what weaken is, but apparently you don't see the disadvantage to stopping to cast weaken on yourself every time someone omens you. When you're getting chased by a group that is doing massive amounts of damage, you don't want to stop for half a second... That's what gen did and he almost died. Your inability to recognize the value of these trade offs really leads me to believe that you have no idea what you're talking about. And furthermore, you COMPLETELY fail to grasp the concept that someone can hold an omen until right before they shoot (which btw, is what happened in gen's gif).

Same goes for you when you can kill me on a necro dexxer.

I'm sure I can kill you on a necro archer a hell of a lot quicker than you could kill me on a tank mage. But the point is, it's not about 1v1's- it's about group play. You made the argument about 1v1's by arguing that it's the same damage as a tank mage dump, and I completely dismissed that notion.

You have no clue what are you talking about

So I have no idea what I'm talking about? Because the archer debuff combo is the same as a tank mage combo? Why don't you break it down for us and do the math of how long it takes to stack the necro debuffs and dish out the damage, and how long it takes a tank mage to do their damage? It's not even close.

If you are on a necro and keep omening someone that keeps taking off the omen + your chance to miss you could be there all day. The tank mage is able to pre cast the explosion and only needs to get the casting focus flamestrike + rng ai

So you think getting off an corpse + omen + concussion blow on a ranged archer... is much harder than getting off a Curse + Explosion + Flame strike + AI combo on a tank mage with a melee weapon? You really do need to be voted off the island lol

 

[Revan123]

No I'm not. I simply said I think it would be a good idea to make corpse skin lower your fire to 55 regardless of being focused or not. A good focused buff in my opinion would be 30 SDI + buffed spirit speak heals. They did a fix similar to this with DCI overcapping because HLD was useless much like corpse skin is.

You're arguing against points you made up yourself I guess? Regardless, you're really degrading this conversation. It went from discussing PvP balance to pages of misunderstandings, discussing how a 40SDI mage does more damage than a 15 SDI mage.

Lol he makes these ridiculous points, then draws his own false conclusions from your response to his ridiculous points, and then he starts arguing more ridiculous points in response to the false conclusions that he makes.

 

[Revan123]

I didn't even know you ever played a necro.

Don't lump me into the same category of necros as you. Thanks.

Don't lump me into the same category of necros as you? I'm sorry what? Are you implying that you were a better necro than me now?

 

[ansyears]

No I'm not. I simply said I think it would be a good idea to make corpse skin lower your fire to 55 regardless of being focused or not. A good focused buff in my opinion would be 30 SDI + buffed spirit speak heals. They did a fix similar to this with DCI overcapping because HLD was useless much like corpse skin is.

You're arguing against points you made up yourself I guess? Regardless, you're really degrading this conversation. It went from discussing PvP balance to pages of misunderstandings, discussing how a 40SDI mage does more damage than a 15 SDI mage.

Now now don't try and change what you originally said...Let us take a look again what I asked and what you responded with. You specifically said we would see necro mages running around just to get the 55 fire and poison WITH 15 SDI

Right now we are seeing a few necros because corpse and curse stack. You people honestly believe if corpse skin was buffed for all necros we would start seeing some necro mages just so they could lower fire by an extra 5? No just stop.

Actually yea lol 5 fire resist is a big deal.

I ran a shield bash necro mage with 60 necro and changed it because of the low DMG output. 5 less fire would have been sweet.

With 55 fire it would be worth it though. Corpse skin is no fail at 60 too.

Are you able to follow what is going on with these three quotes? @Revan123 agreed with you so you both think 12.5% damage increase is better than 15+10... I can only hope you both are trolling.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

Don't lump me into the same category of necros as you? I'm sorry what? Are you implying that you were a better necro than me now?

I am saying you were never in the same category of necro as me when I played one.

So, don't talk for me on why I don't play a necro and don't put your self in the same category as me in necros. Move along.

 

[ansyears]

people didn't steal it, they copied variations of it. obviously most are going to use it with archery instead because well.... everything is better with archery.

No one copied you, you weren't the first necro dexxer lol.

 

[drcossack]

......? wtf? Lol

I don't even know what your point was... Great DC said that the point of getting rid of supernova potions and conflags is because it would "bring more skill back to pvp"- when it reality it would just make it impossible to kill anyone decent while on a mage; so I responded by pointing out that using conflags and nova's wisely does take skill; and now your response is that... you have gotten "SEVERAL" 1v1 kills while in stone form with a colossus, and that I should get better at killing people before they get heals- which is a totally irrelevant point to make (it would be like saying, let's get rid of poison, because you should be good enough to kill people before you need to use it).

Just because I've gotten kills while outnumbered, with summons, etc isn't the point. Yeah, the players I killed in each situation weren't necessarily good, but my actual point is: I don't need the extra damage from conflags and novas to kill people, and I never did.

 

[ansyears]

No... it wasn't clear.

Learn to read?

I did not say if a mage was able to get someone to 55 resist it would be worth it to make necro mages, I said it would go a long way in making necro mages viable again. Read more carefully. And yes, 20 sdi and an un-interruptable spiritspeak would go a long way in helping that.

You quoted critical gaming who did say that and you did like his post.

I said corpse skin and curse "should NEVER stack," and your response was to say, "no it doesn't." Again... you're not being clear.

This is where learning to read helps, you said more than it should never stack, read the next sentence you wrote.

Lol is this guy for real? Do I know about a spell called weaken? Do you know about a thing called pvp? Lol. First off, it's not 7 damage. It's a lot more than 7 damage- and yes, it's not worth it if you end up taking more damage from the box than you would have from the damage anyway. And secondly, yes, of course I know what weaken is, but apparently you don't see the disadvantage to stopping to cast weaken on yourself every time someone omens you. When you're getting chased by a group that is doing massive amounts of damage, you don't want to stop for half a second... That's what gen did and he almost died. Your inability to recognize the value of these trade offs really leads me to believe that you have no idea what you're talking about. And furthermore, you COMPLETELY fail to grasp the concept that someone can hold an omen until right before they shoot (which btw, is what happened in gen's gif).

It isn't 7 damage? i tested it when you said it does 10-25, get a better box and admit you were wrong, are you able to do that? Now you are talking about getting chased by a group of people? I think everyone agreed pvp needs to balanced for 1v1s not a group of people chasing you. you say I fail to grasp that someone can hold an omen but you are failing to grasp someone can hold an explosion

I'm sure I can kill you on a necro archer a hell of a lot quicker than you could kill me on a tank mage. But the point is, it's not about 1v1's- it's about group play. You made the argument about 1v1's by arguing that it's the same damage as a tank mage dump, and I completely dismissed that notion.

You couldn't touch me on a necro archer. You didn't dismiss anything, you brought up a combo that does decent damage, i brought up a combo that can kill you.

So I have no idea what I'm talking about? Because the archer debuff combo is the same as a tank mage combo? Why don't you break it down for us and do the math of how long it takes to stack the necro debuffs and dish out the damage, and how long it takes a tank mage to do their damage? It's not even close.

You continue to fail to understand that if your opponent takes off the omen you will never get off the combo

So you think getting off an corpse + omen + concussion blow on a ranged archer... is much harder than getting off a Curse + Explosion + Flame strike + AI combo on a tank mage with a melee weapon? You really do need to be voted off the island lol

Again you bring up only ranged wep for the dexxer and melee wep for the mage.. Stop being biased so I can answer your question fairly.

 

[CovenantX]

No one copied you, you weren't the first necro dexxer lol.

I couldn't careless if people copied me or not, the point is I was able to kill pretty much every single person I have fought one vs one with the template Before Corpse skin wasn't able to be over-capped. I didn't change my template at all from what it was before the update and it's still remains the same as it was even now.

Why do you need Corpse+Curse stack to kill people, when I didn't and still don't?

I've never seen anyone use it before I have, and the people that did absolutely sucked at it. If you played on any shard I play on, I'm pretty sure you'd be in the same boat as everyone else... but I've been surprised before.

If you think it takes the same "skill" to cast Curse + explode + Fs, as it does to cast Corpse + EO + Concussion, you gotta be trolling or you know nothing about pvp. -I'd wager the latter.

 

[ansyears]

I couldn't careless if people copied me or not, the point is I was able to kill pretty much every single person I have fought one vs one with the template Before Corpse skin wasn't able to be over-capped. I didn't change my template at all from what it was before the update and it's still remains the same as it was even now.

Why do you need Corpse+Curse stack to kill people, when I didn't and still don't?

I've never seen anyone use it before I have, and the people that did absolutely sucked at it. If you played on any shard I play on, I'm pretty sure you'd be in the same boat as everyone else... but I've been surprised before.

If you think it takes the same "skill" to cast Curse + explode + Fs, as it does to cast Corpse + EO + Concussion, you gotta be trolling or you know nothing about pvp. -I'd wager the latter.

You refuse to back up what you say because you know you are wrong. You killed people like drcossack,oreo and revan , trust me when I say this no one is impressed. You have never seen a necro dexxer before you? I mean c'mon mate your post is just full of lies.

 

[Revan123]

Now now don't try and change what you originally said...Let us take a look again what I asked and what you responded with. You specifically said we would see necro mages running around just to get the 55 fire and poison WITH 15 SDI

Are you able to follow what is going on with these three quotes? @Revan123 agreed with you so you both think 12.5% damage increase is better than 15+10... I can only hope you both are trolling.

Saying that more people would play the class is not the same as saying that it would be BETTER...

 

[CovenantX]

You refuse to back up what you say because you know you are wrong. You killed people like drcossack,oreo and revan , trust me when I say this no one is impressed. You have never seen a necro dexxer before you? I mean c'mon mate your post is just full of lies.

I killed a lot more than just those people.

but hey, I don't care if people are impressed with it or not. show me where I said I cared?

You obviously care, because you seem to not have any other ways to compete if this is the only template you're defending from being re-balanced.
Perhaps you should learn more about the game, before you put in your 0 cents on pvp balancing.

Show me where I lied about anything.
Oh by the way... I'm still waiting for you to ICQ me... I didn't lie about that and I didn't know for sure you wouldn't go through with it...

 

[Teh Trader Guy]

I dont even pvp but I know its easier to cast corpse skin & omen & use a weapon, then it is for a mage to get curse explosion & fs off.

 

[drcossack]

You refuse to back up what you say because you know you are wrong. You killed people like drcossack,oreo and revan , trust me when I say this no one is impressed. You have never seen a necro dexxer before you? I mean c'mon mate your post is just full of lies.

Yeah, he killed me with it, a couple years ago when I first came back and didn't have a suit that's anywhere close to as good as what I currently have. That doesn't mean he couldn't do it now, because he could, but he'd have a much harder time...mostly because parry mage. I'm not one of the people he's referring to though.

btw, did you manage to get my ICQ yet? I linked you to a thread where I posted it. I believe I also told you to PM me, which you still haven't done. It doesn't take that much effort to send a private message either, just saying.

Based on the following: 1) How clueless you are about mage pvp, and 2) how adamant you are to keep curse/corpse stacking in the game (when practically EVERYONE has said how overpowered it is), you've told us plenty about how good you are(n't.) You don't play on shards where pvp is active (Atlantic), likely didn't pvp at all before discovering that curse & corpse could stack, and you honestly expect to beat ANYONE in this thread, regardless of what template they use? As I said before, EVERYONE that pvp's in this game right now knows that I do NOT pvp on dexers at all - all my pvp chars are mages. Regardless, I would still kill you on a dexer.

 

[Revan123]

Alchemy +50% base & +30% EP =+> Scribe = 10% SDI & 5% CF ,people will always pick alchemy over any other "crafting skill", It's odd you'd mention Imbuing for mysticism. -No one uses that.
because Focus + Imbuing do not stack with each other, since Focus gives mana regen in addition to the same "SDI" to mystic that Imbuing would.

You missed the point man. The point was, that just because Alchemy is a crafting skill doesn't mean it shouldn't give the benefit of buffing consumables. The point I made was that if he thinks we should remove the EP bonus of alchemy JUST BECAUSE it's a crafting skill, then shouldn't we also remove the bonuses from other crafting related skills? Like Imbuing, Inscribe and Lumberjacking?

Any dexer template with lumberjacking? Lumberjacking = 30% DI (+ 10% chance of 100% DI) they wouldn't have LJ, they'd have Alchemy if they had 100.0 skill left over... I mean who the hell would pick LJ over Alchemy? -The point is Alchemy is Over-powered, OR Everything else is Under-Powered (both = same thing).

When you look at the defensive capabilities of templates and suits, Alchemy is definitely not overpowered- but yes, I agree that a number of other things are a little under-powered offensively (Like necro, and some un-used things like Lumberjacking).

"The evidence is that neither of us play them anymore" Necro hasn't changed. the corpse skin update didn't even effect almost any templates that existed before the update... how is necro garbage?

Necro doesn't have to change to be garbage. If everything else changes, and necro gets left behind, it becomes garbage. Necro is garbage for a number of reasons that I outlined already. A. it provides nothing defensively at all except spiritspeak, which is mostly useless right now, because the amount of damage that groups can do, and the rate at which dexxers/archers can swing and disrupt you, it just doesn't make sense to stop for a 1 second cast, with a strong chance of getting disrupted, just to be healed for a measly 30 or so HP. Secondly, Necros have no burst damage. Every time I say this, someone starts explaining to me the burst damage of necros- but no. If you do the math, it's significantly lower than even mystic mages, let alone 30 sdi mages with scribe or alchemy. People say things like, "WELL, YOU CAN JUST OMEN BEFORE THE SPELLS HIT." But again, those people fail to see the BIG PICTURE, because in the time it takes that necro to cast an omen, a 30 sdi mage can actually do more damage by casting a magic arrow. And now that everyone's suits are corpse proof, Necros are just useless. Then of course, people will always go on about dungeons and choke points, and yeah, they are still somewhat viable in those situations, but we're talking about OVERALL, and most fights happen in open field scenarios because the game does not have the numbers it used to for grinders.

 

[Revan123]

I am saying you were never in the same category of necro as me when I played one.

So, don't talk for me on why I don't play a necro and don't put your self in the same category as me in necros. Move along.

Oh really? LOL Well how would you know if you never seen me or fought me on a necro? Same category? Well... let's see, you got utterly dirtnaped by Zhuang necro v necro, and I went 4/6 against him, so.... where does that put you?

 

[Revan123]

Just because I've gotten kills while outnumbered, with summons, etc isn't the point. Yeah, the players I killed in each situation weren't necessarily good, but my actual point is: I don't need the extra damage from conflags and novas to kill people, and I never did.

Well... that's nice...

But you = kill noobs in stone form does not mean conflags = OP...

 

[ansyears]

I killed a lot more than just those people.

but hey, I don't care if people are impressed with it or not. show me where I said I cared?

You obviously care, because you seem to not have any other ways to compete if this is the only template you're defending from being re-balanced.
Perhaps you should learn more about the game, before you put in your 0 cents on pvp balancing.

Show me where I lied about anything.
Oh by the way... I'm still waiting for you to ICQ me... I didn't lie about that and I didn't know for sure you wouldn't go through with it...

There are a lot of bad pvpers, proud of you.

I can compete, You are able to stack corpse and curse right now, I offered to fight you with you on the necro dexxer and me on a different character, you refused.

Show me you aren't lying by backing up what you say.

You are waiting for me to icq you about what? you already publicly refused to fight me because you couldn't be bothered to take 60 seconds to transfer a char and copy paste macros. I guess you are too busy spending your whole day posting here.