Current state of mages

[icm420]

I was just wondering if anyone else felt that the mages in pvp are severely lacking at the moment? The other night I realized that 1.25 swing speed and spamming 6-8 AI's is stronger then anything my mage can do, and I get hit more often then before. I was wondering if this is going to be addressed anytime soon?

I play UO to play the mage, and I just don't feel that casting focus is anywhere close to being similar to 60SSI 210 stamina archers with the ability to spam 6-8 AI's in 8-10seconds. 6 AI's for 35 dmg each would be 210 damage in 8 seconds, figuring 1.25 swing speed. That's without velocity, hit spell etc. The issue here is that they rarely miss. That means I spend all of my time healing and on the defensive because I just can't afford to go offensive. The damage output / chance to get missed are too high and low, respectively, to be even.

Even with parry and reactive paralyze the sacrifice I have to make to have adequate defense is too steep to be worth it. 80 dexterity means lower intelligence and hit points. Spellweaving works well but only buys you some time, especially on a mage weapon template.

I do agree that the previous stacking of DCI over mage weapons was too strong. But this currently is too weak to be effective, let alone much fun. A good mage could fight 2-3 people alone and have a decent shot at winning. That is just impossible now and I don't care what anyone says. I accept that I am not as good as I once had been, but I certainly notice the decrease in mage power and increase in dexxer.

I don't want to come off as I'm complaining about dying or something. I just do not find it fun to play a mage who gets hit easier then a mongbat. I play spellweaving most of the time too so I do survive decently, I just do not see this being remotely fair and with the new pub I do not see anything that helps the mage out, while the dexxers get a big increase again. Splinter weapon and 10ssi jewels have been around for awhile but the availability of them now puts the advantage highly in the dexxers favor.

I guess I want to see if anyone else feels that this should looked into aside from me.

 

[icm420]

also the field advantage is nerfed at the moment by the use of stone shoes. Yet again hurting the last line of defense the mage had. A bug maybe but even a trap box can nullify fields pretty effectively.
And the increased DCI suits require non medable/ studded armor and give you a big penalty to resists when cursed. Both of which are again a penalty to the mage.

 

[weins201]

 

[icm420]

yeah I had a feeling. Dexxers Online as the tamers and the mages are now gone

 

[Lord Taliesin]

I think you're mostly correct, I pvp on my dexxer much more than my mage these days (as much as I can on a low population shard). I've killed a few folks on my mage in the last year but usually get pwned by archers and throwers. I did have a run in on my dexxer with a necro mage and in spite of having 120 resist I got beat up pretty badly but overall mages certainly aren't as strong as they used to be.

 

[James Moriarty]

There was me thinking my parry/wrestle mage was over powered too...

 

[kelmo]

Opinions vary. Templates change. It is all so very cyclic... I remember when many were calling it Mages online...

 

[Lieutenant Dan!]

dexxer templates do appear to have the advantage as of late.
remember the days of 4/6 mage casting and how long it took to nerf it?
If they brought back 4/6 mage casting it would probably balance things out.

 

[Nephilim]

This game is the most balanced it has been in a very long while. Are 210 dexxers with HLD a little OP, yes, but If you can capitalize on 1 or 2 misses a mage can still put out more damage than a dexxer can. It just takes practice keeping distance and knowing what to cast to capitalize.

 

[drcossack]

Really? I don't have problems with many dexers on LS, even throwers. There's only two dexer chars I hate fighting: one's a necro dexer with 100% poison weap (lance, I believe), and the other a macer who LOVES disarm on all his dexer templates (nevermind that macing's stam drain is annoying enough, I can't even cast on him most of the time); Right now, they are the only two dexer chars on LS I can't kill 1v1. There were others back in the day, but they're no longer active...and, to be honest, I don't even know how effective 4/6 Chiv would be now. Although I imagine it'd still be pretty useful.

Protip: Keep a weapon equipped, set an equip last weapon macro, and use Necromancy. If they have healing, Omen and Poison so they cure that instead healing of themselves. If they're hitting you too often (with HLD, pretty much guaranteed), Blood Oath them.

 

[OREOGL]

No pvp mages ( or dexxer for the matter)stand there and eats chain A.I. If so, you're doing it wrong.

There are many templates that deal with this. The offset is they can miss. Mage damage hits whenever you get the spell off.

This is another im having trouble killing something so please nerf it thread.

 

[icm420]

Right on, I will suck it up then. The CE being turned up is obviously why we suck so many AI's up, also holding area vs archers in the VvV. How are you not getting hit by tons of AIs? And I am talking about solo-2 mages vs 4+

If your average mage is saying it's balanced then I'll shut up about it.

And my complaint is that the mage is a glass cannon without the cannon.

 

[OREOGL]

Well man your average pure mage is going to get wrecked.

Some go with disarm, parry, tactics, I think some use anatomy etc..

I role with poisoning on one so it takes them a bit to cure through so theyre not as willing to chase me down and to spam running shot or ai.

Dismount on the other hand really sucks. I never understood why they give throwers a 3 second we ( I think) with a range of 10 to dismount. I wish they'd nerf that but ive managed.

 

[drcossack]

Right on, I will suck it up then. The CE being turned up is obviously why we suck so many AI's up, also holding area vs archers in the VvV. How are you not getting hit by tons of AIs? And I am talking about solo-2 mages vs 4+

If your average mage is saying it's balanced then I'll shut up about it.

And my complaint is that the mage is a glass cannon without the cannon.

Don't mean to be rude, but, well, you're just bad. Get a mage weap, wrestle/parry, DCI, whatever. If you're wrestle, disarm them if possible. For temps that use a mage weap (i.e. Necro):

I don't use HCI, so I don't worry about hitting them; that's not why it's there. If they disarm me, I run until I can rearm (equip last weap), then resume casting. With 120 magery (-15 weap offset by a +15 ring) and max DCI, I get a decent amount of whiffing while I'm fighting dexers (until they connect, since most have HLD), but that's where Blood Oath comes in. Until my DCI goes back to max, they just hurt themselves, and I mix in spells that go off quickly (fireball, magic arrow, pain spike), plus poison to interrupt their damage healing.

 

[icm420]

I have a mage weapon, does little good when the mage weapon is not in your hand due to the disarm spam. . It's pretty obvious you are not fighting a bunch of fencer archers and nox ninjas w/ resist. The bloodoath works ok, they run off and cycle in the next guy. Pursuit is not much of an option, DS and moving shot. If the dismount goes off we have a decent shot. But the speed is hard to counter. In choke points you wall them and or e field. However the VvV altars are not exactly choke points. Either is yew gate when there are no houses, or most T2A spawn locations ETC ETC. Not talking about fighting in terra keep or despise.

I run 45dci w/ a mage weapon and the mage weapon pen is made up. I get disarmed often, and handle it ok. I understand everyone is better then everyone else blah blah. I'm asking if everyone thinks that since the addition of splinter weapon, 10ssi rings and bracelets and 210 stamina suits etc that the mage is still viable in pvp? To me it seems like the addition of casting focus did little to help and the loss of overstacked DCI means you get hit way more resulting in more time spent healing instead of doing other things, such as fielding, offense, summons etc. To me it seems like the idea of the new mage is to be very strong offensively but easy to hit. I just don't see it being even.

I dont appreciate being called bad however, especially when you have no idea what it is i'm fighting or the situations I'm in. Come show me how it's done, show me the secret to fighting the Disarm Nox Ninja w/ resist and the 210 stam Fencer Archers w/ resist. In a pack of no less then 4. By yourself. I can live but I can't kill any of them. Or I kill a few and die. But winning is not an option. And it used to be.

We won't factor in the weird stuff that happens either, like chugging cure potions non stop while standing in a field. Or eating apples when you are bleed attacked. That's just normal.

That's not the point tho. The point is the mage seems very "glass cannon" without the power. I don't know how else to explain it.
I give up on the subject however. Fencer Archers and other misc. dexxers are fun to play. I just hate to see most of my mages go to tram only toons.

 

[OREOGL]

I have a mage weapon, does little good when the mage weapon is not in your hand due to the disarm spam. . It's pretty obvious you are not fighting a bunch of fencer archers and nox ninjas w/ resist. The bloodoath works ok, they run off and cycle in the next guy. Pursuit is not much of an option, DS and moving shot. If the dismount goes off we have a decent shot. But the speed is hard to counter. In choke points you wall them and or e field. However the VvV altars are not exactly choke points. Either is yew gate when there are no houses, or most T2A spawn locations ETC ETC. Not talking about fighting in terra keep or despise.

I run 45dci w/ a mage weapon and the mage weapon pen is made up. I get disarmed often, and handle it ok. I understand everyone is better then everyone else blah blah. I'm asking if everyone thinks that since the addition of splinter weapon, 10ssi rings and bracelets and 210 stamina suits etc that the mage is still viable in pvp? To me it seems like the addition of casting focus did little to help and the loss of overstacked DCI means you get hit way more resulting in more time spent healing instead of doing other things, such as fielding, offense, summons etc. To me it seems like the idea of the new mage is to be very strong offensively but easy to hit. I just don't see it being even.

I dont appreciate being called bad however, especially when you have no idea what it is i'm fighting or the situations I'm in. Come show me how it's done, show me the secret to fighting the Disarm Nox Ninja w/ resist and the 210 stam Fencer Archers w/ resist. In a pack of no less then 4. By yourself. I can live but I can't kill any of them. Or I kill a few and die. But winning is not an option. And it used to be.

We won't factor in the weird stuff that happens either, like chugging cure potions non stop while standing in a field. Or eating apples when you are bleed attacked. That's just normal.

That's not the point tho. The point is the mage seems very "glass cannon" without the power. I don't know how else to explain it.
I give up on the subject however. Fencer Archers and other misc. dexxers are fun to play. I just hate to see most of my mages go to tram only toons.

Well man maybe you expect too much out of your mage in a gank scenario. I 1 vs 2 a couple dexxers with deathstrike disarm running shot etc and dropped them both. This was using my parry nox mage.

 

[icm420]

There is pvp that isn't a gank?

I suppose my issue is I can't forget how my mages WERE. So the new style is hard for me to adapt to. I can learn new tricks but I can't become a new dog.

But that is exactly correct. I expect to survive and at least take a few with me.

 

[Vexxed]

Well a couple of things......

The poison Nina with resist doesn't have any way to heal other than pots.... so use summons to dmg him while focusing on staying alive. Also shatter pots usually makes him bail out of a fight. The other disarm archers are typically tough to kill if they are smart about offscreening. If they have resist mana vamp every time they offscreen. If they do my rule of thumb don't bother with anything offensive unless you know it will kill them. I mean stick with combos like curse + exp + 3 Ebolts or whatever... You have to stack a certain amount BEFORE the bandage kicks or deal enough dmg to force slips and out damage the bandage etc... honestly it's tough on a focused mage bc your limited to raw dmg to kill them and most dexxers are smart enough to see it coming and bail. Just try things that WILL work and given time and a mistake you will get them.....

 

[Nephilim]

Right on, I will suck it up then. The CE being turned up is obviously why we suck so many AI's up, also holding area vs archers in the VvV. How are you not getting hit by tons of AIs? And I am talking about solo-2 mages vs 4+

If your average mage is saying it's balanced then I'll shut up about it.

And my complaint is that the mage is a glass cannon without the cannon.

For starters, to clarify how CE works, it does not improve anything in game. It improves their computers performance. So say the best you can ping to Atlantic is 0, without CE they ping 15 and with they ping 10. All it is doing is improving their computers performance. It in essence it is forcing their computer to work harder than it should. CE is actually really bad in the long run for your computer if you use it intensely. There is no way to make your client move faster than what the shards server can handle.

I am your average mage, an I do say it's fine. In any 2v1 scenario the 1 should die. Of course skill factors in, but on an even playing field 2 should ALWAYS beat 1. When you have two 210 archers on you and they get the HLD off there really isn't much you can do to survive. I personally would run a mystic due to Mass Sleep, Bombard and Spell Trigger. If you Mass Sleep them and they are within the tile radius the area effect will go off on them all, this is the first point in checking if they have resist. If the sleep last longer than 3 seconds you need to switch to bombard because it has a stun effect. If you get the stun off you can easily synch dump them rather quickly using spell trigger as the kill shot. In your combo do not go exp/fs/spell trigger. The delayed damage from the FS for some reason bugs the spell trigger and it in essence does ZERO damage. I would go ex/eb/spell trigger, or ex/spell plague/lightning/spell trigger.

Don't listen to @drcossack I have no idea why he's flexing his nuts right now. It just takes time and practice along with A LOT of deaths.

 

[icm420]

It seems fishy when a guy who is dismounted can out run guys on mount.. that type of speed, legit or not, is very hard to fight against. Put it on a guy who is a DSer and/or Fencer Archer and it's ********. It gets to the point that you don't want to fight anymore because there is no point trying to catch a guy who can hop 4 steps at a time. I have considered my computers performance is not so good, I am on the east coast, playing westcoast servers, but it happens to multiple people and some are on westcoast.

I dont mean to sound w/e but I've been fighting for years I just never had a mage so squishy, I always had a very aggressive playstyle

 

[Nephilim]

Sounds like you need to trace your pink to the shard's sever. http://uo2.stratics.com/technical-information/server-ip-addresses

EC for some reason has better latency that CC so that could be something else you are experiencing. They could also be running an unpatched client that reduces frame rate etc. There are many ways for players to make their speed quicker. TBH I'd have to see it, so please PM me and I can hop on my pvp toon (I have one on all American shards) and see what's going on