Continuing the discussion on Competition

[Thom]

My point is this: If you spin off an alt to run against someone that's already an RP'er in a well represented town... how is that growing the community Thom? Its not someone new. Its an alt... an alt that was trying to represent themselves as someone new. That's not community growth.
To grow the community, really and honestly, you have to have a cohesiveness between each other that appeals to outsiders looking in. We really do need to iron out all these issues.... if its a TeamSpeak or Ventrilo conversation or a PM conversation... someone should step up and try to work these out. I'd be more than happy to do that!
~ Sue.

All competition does not need to be eliminated in order to grow the community. Deep down at the heart of things the governor system is an RP system and running a campaign against anyone using RP should never be frowned upon. This term coming up there are RPers running unopposed in most towns. Trinsic, Moonglow, Yew, Vesper, Jhelom, Minoc... all either full or part time RPers. So that's 6 of the 8 cities already. Skara has Gillian running, again an RPer. And Britain has two RPers. I don't really know who Grywulfe is, and I don't really care, but it's obvious from his posts that he is one. Now... let's be honest here. There isn't a town that was available to run in that wasn't already being claimed by an RPer. Why should new Rpers or people just getting interested in the system be told they can't run because it's bad for the community if they do? I would welcome someone to mount an actual IC campaign against me in Trinsic. I might lose, but at least there would be interest in the elections and the RP that goes with it. To grow the community we all need to let go of the opinion that everything is personally motivated, as I said in my other post. There are plenty of IC reasons for anyone to dislike any other person, and that does not make it personal it makes it good RP. Good RP can't survive without conflict, it's only when it's taken to the realm of OOC that it becomes an issue.

Posted this here so we can let the other discussion get back on track, it's not fair to Greywulfe to hijack his interview thread for this discussion.

 

[Aedon Durreah]

I agree fully Thom. I was sort of disappointed that I ran unopposed. I was looking forward to a campaign and even some headed debates. The RP community needs an infusion of fresh blood to keep it flowing well. We all know each other for the most part, so there is little in the way of surprises ever added to the mix. When we outwardly welcome and encourage new comers to the community the pot is stirred and more scenarios have a chance to sprout up. Look at Jacuyls plague. It reminds me very much of the Charnadis Story line. Introduced to the community then allowed to flow and carry the story in many directions.

 

[Scarst]

Don't worry Aedon I'll run against you next term under the promise of burning down luna and declaring ware on the color purple, also every Wednesday My constituents will get free ice cream

 

[Aedon Durreah]

Woo hoo!!
Competition and fire, what more could a man ask for?

 

[Podolak]

Ice cream Aedon, don't forget the ice cream.

 

[Scarst]

*Throws a tantrum and goes out of control and calls richard garriott when he loses to aedon*

 

[MareJadeSky]

i agree as well, but i was going to have some run again me becuz i spell wrong and was like but they pull out at the last min, i would like to see someone run again me but oh well

 

[Norrar]

*Runs against next term*

 

[MareJadeSky]

hehe this is my last term. Bytor of K^S is taking my place after this. i will be going back to work soon now that my little one will be going to school soon

 

[Aedon Durreah]

Hope you have had fun being part of the system Mare.

 

[MareJadeSky]

hehe it been so long but i am ready to go back to work

 

[Jacuyl]

Last night was insanity. We didn't have RP vs RP with legit campaining, we had non RP buying votes from other shards. I was sad Jacuyl. I was Rping at these people and got accused of griefing and threatened with paging by a gargoyle named, of all things, GR I E F E R. Spelled just. like. that.

 

[TimberWolf]

The level of ****** baggery that was displayed last night is astounding! I am shocked at how far into the gutter some people will stoop.

 

[Pandora_CoD]

And I think it's time we put all of it to a clear, decisive, legally-mandated halt. No more bullying or being falsely accused of doing that crap!!!! No more.

 

[MareJadeSky]

what i saw in brit last night before i log was the most mess up thing of all time. to buy vote is like what they do in rl this is a game you want to be like are gov is now then go run in the real world not uo

 

[Judas D'arc]

It's funny, I thought this election cycle was going really well until yesterday ... when clearly it wasn't.

I'm all for in-character and RP competition, but that also requires people to understand the concept of separation between player and character, which is often difficult because not everyone who participates in this system considers themselves to be a role-player, and even if they do consider themselves one, clearly there are different approaches to the concept of role-playing. I was pretty happy with the Skara Brae election, it was a tough fight between candidates of different play styles, but I'm not aware of any out-of-game bickering or serious problems. And I do know that Governor Gillian and the rest of the Rangers of Spiritwood look forward to working with everyone playing in and around Skara Brae, and that includes setting trade deals and organizing events that reflect more than our own needs.

I really only paid attention to Britain election for the last hour or so once we felt Skara Brae was more secure, but it sounded like there was a lot of problems there.

I think, even worse than any bad behavior, is that the system itself is setup to encourage bad behavior. Everyone has their opinions on what tactics should be permissible and what shouldn't, but as long as the system isn't regulating anything beyond "one vote per account per shard," then we will consistently face anything-goes scenarios. A truly purist approach would be to use only pre-existing characters with pre-existing loyalty that are actually invested in a city, and anything beyond that ventures into gray area. Creating new characters or employing multiple accounts or cross-shard voting or cross-shard vote trading or vote-buying -- until the developers do something to address this, I don't think it's feasible to expect limitations because everyone feels differently about these things and ultimately people are going to do what they feel they have to in order to win. Also, and not to make this too socio-political, I would guess that many of us come from places where there's a certain ingrained notion of liberty associated with the ability to spend our $12.99 a month however we choose, and I can't imagine we're ever going to come up with an external solution that addresses that in any manner that will result in a self-regulating community standard of behavior.

Oh well, at least we won't have to worry about this for another 6 months ...

 

[MareJadeSky]

No i don't call my self a RP anymore but as a K^S member and Emmy of the guild and now gov again of vesper i do RP at the meeting and event that i hold and go too i stay in char. these people showing up in Brit last nite in the new char robs WERE not RP at all they weren't even nice, in my book pandy Will all way be Brit gov no matter who the stone say she has done more for that town then anyone else has

 

[Judas D'arc]

No i don't call my self a RP anymore but as a K^S member and Emmy of the guild and now gov again of vesper i do RP at the meeting and event that i hold and go too i stay in char. these people showing up in Brit last nite in the new char robs WERE not RP at all they weren't even nice, in my book pandy Will all way be Brit gov no matter who the stone say she has done more for that town then anyone else has

Mare, whatever you choose to call yourself in terms of your play-style, I think you do a really great job as Governor of Vesper and I look forward to this term.

 

[Mithryl Elves]

The level of ****** baggery that was displayed last night is astounding! I am shocked at how far into the gutter some people will stoop.

U seem to be crying alot about the vote in Britain on Catskills. I believe you and pandora were running with Flutter on the ballot as well? U do know when I went to that stone it was 90% Pandora, 9.5% Flutter and less than .5% you right? You had no shot in hell of winning and here you are crying that you lost. You finished WELL behind both Ladies in the vote so IMO you have no argument here. Hating on Flutter because her and Pandora both crushed you on the vote won't make your blood pressure better

 

[Judas D'arc]

U seem to be crying alot about the vote in Britain on Catskills. I believe you and pandora were running with Flutter on the ballot as well? U do know when I went to that stone it was 90% Pandora, 9.5% Flutter and less than .5% you right? You had no shot in hell of winning and here you are crying that you lost. You finished WELL behind both Ladies in the vote so IMO you have no argument here. Hating on Flutter because her and Pandora both crushed you on the vote won't make your blood pressure better

To be fair to TimberWolf, his opinions are not the result of being a sore loser. He wasn't the player of Guy Greywulfe, the third candidate that you refer to.

 

[Mithryl Elves]

To be fair to TimberWolf, his opinions are not the result of being a sore loser. He wasn't the player of Guy Greywulfe, the third candidate that you refer to.

Oh well I stand corrected then. I do wonder why he is so butthurt over this then. Perhaps he is a guildmate of Pandora?

 

[Aedon Durreah]

I also watched what transpired in Brit last night and was a bit disappointed in both sides. One side did seem to be having a lot of folks in "noob" cloths or just plain naked voting, At one time some of those voting had no names, only vote 1-whatever. I think there may have been up to 9 number-voters. (Followers of Sesame Streets The Count?)

The other side had clones of their long standing characters voting. I counted 3-4 versions of some of the characters, all showing up, grabbing the ingots to get their city rep, then running to the stone, voting and sitting down near the Bank. In no time another clone showed.

I am thinking perhaps the Brit elections in the future should be called Clone Wars or the Other Empire Strikes Back.

Everyone should feel welcome to be a part of the elections, and no one person (other than Thom) should feel entitled to be the one in charge of any given town. We could all have such fun with this system, and many RP events, debates and scenarios could have followed the nomination cycle. Perhaps we, the newly elected Governors can all agree to seek to put a halt one and for all to the D-baggery, and just try to have fun at the next election. To all who ran, win or lose, to all those who have taken a term or more and done good by your city and your citizens, my admiration and thanks.

 

[Mithryl Elves]

Hey I was a clone. I was chasing this hot lil elf chick around all night and atleast making fun out of it.

People are all hateful of others right now because of the game itself being flawed. Hear me out.... I'll break it down...

1) EA's refusal to merge dead servers into fewer servers has made the majority of players multi server players. My guild is on 8-9 servers right now.
If they would suck it up and merge then more of the dead servers would have a larger voting community.

2) This is the main issue. Because many players play multiple servers EA/Broadsword [Insert whoever does what now] they have refused to make it one vote per account which would surely fix this whole campaigning for votes cross server thing. I just stated that my guild plays 8-9 servers. We all have a server that we call home though right?

You are all complaining and hating the cross server campaigning. Hating old friends and pointing fingers like they are dishonest and doing things wrong, yet they are not breaking any in game mechanics and are just using every resource available to them to win. If you're going to be pissed off at someone be pissed off at the games developers who haven't had the sack to fix the issue by limiting voting to one vote per account. You all have a voice. If you don't like it start a thread about it and get things changed.

 

[Flutter]

The truth is I am going to fight for term limits.
Now that we are getting 6 month terms, there is no reason anyone should run more than 2 times in a row unless there are no other people who wish to put their name on the ballot.
That is going to be my biggest fight this year (2015) is to try to convince the devs (and everyone else) that term limits is a good idea.
If person A has 40 accounts and person B has 1 and they are both running for the same city, person B is automatically at a disadvantage, regardless of how many "friends" or supporters each have. B is automatically starting out in a 40 vote deficit.
One vote per account. Term limits. Everyone is happy. (or should be)

 

[Nyre]

Even if you have Term Limits the one person with 40 Accounts can then run with a different character from each of their accounts once the limit of the current terms is up. Still has the same disadvantage to the others.

 

[Pandora_CoD]

@Kyronix @Mesanna

Yesterday I was belittled, I was called names, I was threatened --- they PROMISED --- to have me banned and removed, even to track me down where I lived and yes they got reported for that for sure. They threated @Jacuyl right in front of us saying they would call a GM for harassment when all she did was ask why a Gargoyle would run in Britain (all RP style)... now go on and read ALLLLLLL my posts, I never said a THING about Flutter, not once. I even set the record straight by correcting the fact that Skara Brae governorship last month was not passed down player to player but that the King selected the replacement. That is ALL I ever said! So whatever she said about me was completely false and you all were dupped. I was 100% targeted and bullied unfairly.

Seriously Ky, Mess... PLEASE fix it.

 

[The Griefer King]

Last night was insanity. We didn't have RP vs RP with legit campaining, we had non RP buying votes from other shards. I was sad Jacuyl. I was Rping at these people and got accused of griefing and threatened with paging by a gargoyle named, of all things, GR I E F E R. Spelled just. like. that.

first of all me asking who YOU were paging on because someone in my vent said you were paging for something about me saying Got Grief?? to you. i dont page gms. never ever. so dont associate me with that kind of behavior. get your facts straight. trammy scum

 

[Pandora_CoD]

Who told you in Ventrilo that any of us were paging on you?

 

[Mithryl Elves]

The truth is I am going to fight for term limits.
Now that we are getting 6 month terms, there is no reason anyone should run more than 2 times in a row unless there are no other people who wish to put their name on the ballot.
That is going to be my biggest fight this year (2015) is to try to convince the devs (and everyone else) that term limits is a good idea.
If person A has 40 accounts and person B has 1 and they are both running for the same city, person B is automatically at a disadvantage, regardless of how many "friends" or supporters each have. B is automatically starting out in a 40 vote deficit.
One vote per account. Term limits. Everyone is happy. (or should be)

Term limits may be cool. Im not sure their needed though unless we have a city that a guild roleplays around and they want to run that specific city. In all other cases and if its about having the buff to enhance gameplay I don't think the city matters. What needs to be changed first is multi server voting and campaigning that way. It is a serious flaw in game mechanics I think. Yesterday we had a few players spamming multiple servers offering 4 million per vote to come vote against my guild when they found out which city we were aiming for. We countered it by forming alliances cross server to trade votes. All in all I think servers need to be merged and one vote per account should happen.

@Kyronix @Mesanna

Make it happen please. It's time...

 

[Thom]

Ok guys. This is not the place to have this discussion. This thread was not meant to discuss what may or may not have happened in the elections, and turning it into an arguments doesn't help anything.

 

[Flutter]

@Kyronix @Mesanna

Yesterday I was belittled, I was called names, I was threatened --- they PROMISED --- to have me banned and removed, even to track me down where I lived and yes they got reported for that for sure. They threated @Jacuyl right in front of us saying they would call a GM for harassment when all she did was ask why a Gargoyle would run in Britain (all RP style)... now go on and read ALLLLLLL my posts, I never said a THING about Flutter, not once. I even set the record straight by correcting the fact that Skara Brae governorship last month was not passed down player to player but that the King selected the replacement. That is ALL I ever said! So whatever she said about me was completely false and you all were dupped. I was 100% targeted and bullied unfairly.

Seriously Ky, Mess... PLEASE fix it.

You have to also admit that I never once responded poorly to you or any of your people who were in my face and on the forums last night. I stayed out of chat (had it turned off) and did not speak to anyone. As my character Lucidity is very reserved quiet type with a little snobbery I was literally playing her as I would. There was a player who harassed me and got in my face enough to make me page, the page should be on record. I was putting up with enough attacks that I felt even more in my face remarks were unfair and made me feel uncomfortable. After asking twice to stop and putting her on ignore I paged as is the proceedure.
You and Biannca stood near me and I didn't witness any threatening remarks or anyone saying you'd be banned or tracked down or any of that, although I did take restroom breaks (it was a long night) I thought we were doing well (the two of us)
If anyone threatened you they did so without my knowledge or support and I am sorry you went through that. I was going through quite a bit of ugliness myself which I tried not to assume was with your support... I'd think you'd offer me the same.

 

[Jacuyl]

first of all me asking who YOU were paging on because someone in my vent said you were paging for something about me saying Got Grief?? to you. i dont page gms. never ever. so dont associate me with that kind of behavior. get your facts straight. trammy scum

The person in your vent who told you I was paging was mistaken. I never said I was paging on you. I wouldn't unless there was actually something legit going on. I also never said "Got Grief??". Maybe they saw the words from someone else floating over me or something in the chaos. *shrug* I could dig through the journal log but really, I don't want to be bothered. Actually, now that I said that, I will probably dig through it because it is bothering me that someone would miss-assign words to me. Also, you shouldn't call me "Trammy scum". It implies that you do not partake or have interest in Trammel events yourself, when clearly last night you did and that would make you Trammy scum, as well.

Why are people really that worked up over the in game elections??

 

[The Griefer King]

@Kyronix @Mesanna

Yesterday I was belittled, I was called names, I was threatened --- they PROMISED --- to have me banned and removed, even to track me down where I lived and yes they got reported for that for sure. They threated @Jacuyl right in front of us saying they would call a GM for harassment when all she did was ask why a Gargoyle would run in Britain (all RP style)... now go on and read ALLLLLLL my posts, I never said a THING about Flutter, not once. I even set the record straight by correcting the fact that Skara Brae governorship last month was not passed down player to player but that the King selected the replacement. That is ALL I ever said! So whatever she said about me was completely false and you all were dupped. I was 100% targeted and bullied unfairly.

Seriously Ky, Mess... PLEASE fix it.

that was some guy named toad that was by me threatening to page on yall. all i kept saying was got grief?? call you a trammy a few times and laughed when i turned it from 60/30 your favor to 53/45 in favor of flutter. how did that make you feel? THE PEOPLE OF CATSKILLS HAS SPOKEN AND HAS ELECTED THEIR GOV OF BRIT

 

[MareJadeSky]

The truth is I am going to fight for term limits.
Now that we are getting 6 month terms, there is no reason anyone should run more than 2 times in a row unless there are no other people who wish to put their name on the ballot.
That is going to be my biggest fight this year (2015) is to try to convince the devs (and everyone else) that term limits is a good idea.
If person A has 40 accounts and person B has 1 and they are both running for the same city, person B is automatically at a disadvantage, regardless of how many "friends" or supporters each have. B is automatically starting out in a 40 vote deficit.
One vote per account. Term limits. Everyone is happy. (or should be)

^^^^^^^
is a bunch of crock. you arent even know cats that much. people that run for gov do it cuz they like to rp it. i miss the frist gov meeting last term do to family but i never miss any of the other and you were NEVER EVERY till the king aka the em said if any of the miss gov miss anymore they lose there set (mind you that putting it nice) then you and minco start showing up, but putting a cap on how many term a person can run is bull. we all pay 12.99 month to play this game no matter how many account we have. we can have as many bloody terms as we want

 

[MareJadeSky]

To be fair to TimberWolf, his opinions are not the result of being a sore loser. He wasn't the player of Guy Greywulfe, the third candidate that you refer to.

thank you i do have fun with it

 

[The Griefer King]

The person in your vent who told you I was paging was mistaken. I never said I was paging on you. I wouldn't unless there was actually something legit going on. I also never said "Got Grief??". Maybe they saw the words from someone else floating over me or something in the chaos. *shrug* I could dig through the journal log but really, I don't want to be bothered. Actually, now that I said that, I will probably dig through it because it is bothering me that someone would miss-assign words to me. Also, you shouldn't call me "Trammy scum". It implies that you do not partake or have interest in Trammel events yourself, when clearly last night you did and that would make you Trammy scum, as well.

Why are people really that worked up over the in game elections??

can you seriously not read? i said they said you were paging because I told YOU got Grief?? which is MY catch phrase so NO i wouldnt expect TRAMMY SCUM to even say MY catch phrase.

and me running people from atl and paying upwards to 4 mil per vote to help one of my friends win something that means something to hear does not imply that iam a trammy.

 

[Pandora_CoD]

@Ron Bron @Zuckuss

 

[Mithryl Elves]

[QUOTE="Jacuyl, Also, you shouldn't call me "Trammy scum". It implies that you do not partake or have interest in Trammel events yourself, when clearly last night you did and that would make you Trammy scum, as well.

Why are people really that worked up over the in game elections??[/QUOTE]

Town voting is in Trammel but isn't just a Trammel event. It affects pvp in Felucca more than it affects anything in Trammel. If my guild was not able to get the 1 FC bonus we would need to redo our suits

Who is the hot lil elf from lastnight? Was that u!

 

[Pandora_CoD]

If anyone threatened you they did so without my knowledge or support and I am sorry you went through that. I was going through quite a bit of ugliness myself which I tried not to assume was with your support... I'd think you'd offer me the same.

You brought those people here, you are ultimately responsible for them.

 

[Zuckuss]

Okay, we're done here. Thom, feel free to start a new discussion.