Now this ^ is a legitimate reason as well as are the others similar to it that have had troubles to be upset.
I just can't understand ppl crying over losing 6 hrs of game play due to ignorance though. Oh noe, I gained .3 and lost it.
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Compensation Package
- Thread starter Jonathan Baron
- Start date
- Watchers 8
I just can't understand ppl crying over losing 6 hrs of game play due to ignorance though. Oh noe, I gained .3 and lost it.
As stated already, players were aware of a server move, expect the unexpected, and remember, anything that can go wrong, will.
If, if a non gamer were to read all this rhetoric, they would either laugh hard, or roll their eyes several times. Ultima Online is a computer game. Keyword here, GAME. It's not a necessity, like your electricity, phone, heat......UO is a choice people opt to partake in. Expecting compensation is straight out immature, greedy, and plain ol jumping on the bus after it hits a car......
This threads a rant, not much more.
If, if a non gamer were to read all this rhetoric, they would either laugh hard, or roll their eyes several times. Ultima Online is a computer game. Keyword here, GAME. It's not a necessity, like your electricity, phone, heat......UO is a choice people opt to partake in. Expecting compensation is straight out immature, greedy, and plain ol jumping on the bus after it hits a car......
This threads a rant, not much more.
good point ... people back in the day didn't demand compensation when reverts were almost weekly. In the TOS it says gameplay may be disrupted for all sorts of reasons and is not guaranteed.
W
Woodsman
Guest
We only had one day to get ready though and didn't even know we needed to get ready.
While I think the major issues will get sorted out in a week or two, a lot of hassle on everybody's part could have been saved if they had been up front.
Oh wait, it's EA, why am I expecting them to be up front
F
Fayled Dhreams
Guest
Oh gentlemen, really?
ALL players were informed? are you talking about the fake Emails?
and those "informed"? Were they assured/ensured that all would most certainly go well? ("just" the accounts side; Afterall) house's certainly to be safe and saved?
SOME people didn't
some people did ... always have and will always continue to DEMAND
compensation of their realtime loss of Five cents ... look around
, look around ,look back thru history ...
even as recently as Oceania?
Compensation is the theme.
Those on the other side of the screen, the mysterious faceless ones that caused this mess ...
THEY are getting compensated ... they get to keep their jobs
"Informed"? they've FINALLY posted a little teeny tiny Notice on the patch screen?
seems to be TOO teeny tiny ... I ain't seen it as yet ...Best of all ... Indeed >gameplay< maybe disrupted and changed ... quoted that many a times my self ...
Accounting process and procedures MANDATORY to "Playing" the game?
TOS says something about thirty days notice
Account management/bookkeeping <<>> The game and the servers they play on
TWO different thangs
TIGHTLY related
no point in one without the other.
You could allways say "you learn from your mistakes". UO doesn't.
You mess up once at work - you get a 'well it happens but dont do it again".
You mess up twice - you get a stern looking at but appease the boss by saying you'll work late to sort it.
Thrice - hell then your on an unpaid weekend at work.
Again??? - if your not allready sacked then your doing 'tricks' for your boss.
Arn't we the Dev's bosses? I mean really we pay their wages by keeping them in a job.
These sorts of mistakes should have been learn't by allmost every upgrade ever done to UO. Seriously when do we the subscribers call the line. Test your stuff before you shove it out......and no not on the test server, that would be Beta testing. PAY somebody to test anything they can think of to try and make it not work.
We have 2 at work (i program siemens plc's for our equipment) and yes they find problems. I would never dream of sending a product out that didn't atleast 99% work.
Latest 'upgrade' i'd give a 45% tested. *see me in the office in the morning*
So yes i don't think demanding higher ammounts of compansation are out of the question. Hell, every patch done in UO is bad so at this rate they should now be paying us to play.
Remember compensation is cheaper than lawsuit. (read the latest laws on internet gaming) I think alot of those posted on here have a valid case.
Your call EA/Mythic/UO......whatever you want to call yourselves these days.
You mess up once at work - you get a 'well it happens but dont do it again".
You mess up twice - you get a stern looking at but appease the boss by saying you'll work late to sort it.
Thrice - hell then your on an unpaid weekend at work.
Again??? - if your not allready sacked then your doing 'tricks' for your boss.
Arn't we the Dev's bosses? I mean really we pay their wages by keeping them in a job.
These sorts of mistakes should have been learn't by allmost every upgrade ever done to UO. Seriously when do we the subscribers call the line. Test your stuff before you shove it out......and no not on the test server, that would be Beta testing. PAY somebody to test anything they can think of to try and make it not work.
We have 2 at work (i program siemens plc's for our equipment) and yes they find problems. I would never dream of sending a product out that didn't atleast 99% work.
Latest 'upgrade' i'd give a 45% tested. *see me in the office in the morning*
So yes i don't think demanding higher ammounts of compansation are out of the question. Hell, every patch done in UO is bad so at this rate they should now be paying us to play.
Remember compensation is cheaper than lawsuit. (read the latest laws on internet gaming) I think alot of those posted on here have a valid case.
Your call EA/Mythic/UO......whatever you want to call yourselves these days.
W
Woodsman
Guest
We are nobody's bosses, and never have been, otherwise Lake Superior players would have received months of free gametime for the crap we suffered in 2000.
However, you don't even know which game caused all three games to have to have their accounting system upgraded. Nobody came out and said whether the problem was with UO, Warhammer, or Camelot, just that all three needed an incredibly quick migration to this new system and that players didn't need more than 24 hours warning and didn't need tutorial pages. They didn't even bother customizing the wording - all three games got the exact same notices.
The only thing we do know for sure is that the EA web or database people behind this had never heard of the game codes store or didn't bother checking it out, because that has caused a lot of problems.
I would love to read the latest laws on internet gaming, because somewhere I have an old spreadsheet that lists all of the reverts and problems we had on Lake Superior in 2000, and the problems this weekend pale in comparison. I could also come up with a figure for the amount of hours I had to spend with customer service getting things straightened out every time I got overcharged. I bet the amount of time I spent getting charges straightened out would easily top 24 hours.
Truly I dont think they are that worried about it mate. Not slamming your statement or picking an argument, but to have a lawsuit over pixels that you basically rent each month and will never own, hold, or put it up in your garage or fireplace is pretty lame imo.
To be honest that part was ment as a wake up call to EA.
Their are many different 'versions' of internet law nowadays but most go with the case of 'virtual property' is classed the same as 'actual property'.
If you can get hold of a lawyer and have a good case where you have lost money/time/virtual depreciation of items ect then a judge is more likley to rule in your favour.
Check google for cases, when won we are talking about Thousands of dollars awarded not just half a day downtime.
As more and more people spend more time in 'virtual' worlds than in RL the laws are changing to stop corporations from being 'judge/jury/executioner' and taking the profits and running.
The UO counselor and Asheron's Call were cancelled due to a class action lawsuit and EA didnt want to risk anymore.
If you got the means and the proof to take EA to court then your most likley to be very wealthy afterwards (Mr Garriot anyone?)
Their are many different 'versions' of internet law nowadays but most go with the case of 'virtual property' is classed the same as 'actual property'.
If you can get hold of a lawyer and have a good case where you have lost money/time/virtual depreciation of items ect then a judge is more likley to rule in your favour.
Check google for cases, when won we are talking about Thousands of dollars awarded not just half a day downtime.
As more and more people spend more time in 'virtual' worlds than in RL the laws are changing to stop corporations from being 'judge/jury/executioner' and taking the profits and running.
The UO counselor and Asheron's Call were cancelled due to a class action lawsuit and EA didnt want to risk anymore.
If you got the means and the proof to take EA to court then your most likley to be very wealthy afterwards (Mr Garriot anyone?)
Technical issues happen, users don't need 'compensation'.
S
sayler04
Guest
Frivolous lawsuits have so far ruined healthcare, television and fast food. Do we really need to turn that gun on a pass-time loved by thousands over a few hours downtime?
Ok i can go for healthcare but TV and fastfood? lol
Frivolous lawsuits were also considered to be asbestos, lead paint and shell shock, would you consider these to still be?
Everything has a time to grow up and face its responsibilites.
Internet gaming is long overdue.
M
molinaro
Guest
Few hours? It's up to 5 days now that I'm sitting with a 6 month game time code that I cannot enter, and my account cannot be activated.
Pretending it's only a few hours inconvenience to everyone is very dishonest.
F
Fayled Dhreams
Guest
mmmmm ... fair points all in all ... minor problem though ...
this isn't (shouldn't be seen as) an argument solely over >in game pixel's<
that is correctly covered in/by the TOS ... gameplay, changes, as is, as available, thems is EAs pixels thilly.
The "problem" is >outside< of the game ... in the accounting and billing dept. (not in the ISPs domain of control either, which is also covered: transmission availability)
Placing a change >unannounced< (no patch screen notice) too quickly (less than thirty days)
that's where it gets all fiddly hair splitting hire a contingency fee lawyer sideways ...there, we ain't talking about pixels ... we're talking about cash/monies ... and how >the rate< will be posted 30days prior
in the event of a pending change OF >the rate<, and that it is the responsibility of the player to BE aware of that rate change.
Fine ...
The "crack" in the TOS which >maybe< due a judicial review, to set precedent (if there isn't one),
is about the unaddressed mechanics OF managing the monies Through EA's controlled interface
aka: the migration
Temporary hypothetical:
You mailed your tax return two weeks before April 15th, full, complete to the letter, signed and accompanied with a cash equivalent.
It is returned to you as being in error, you placed it in a south facing mailbox, and recent changes dictate that you may ONLY use north or west facing mailboxes.
Or that "mail" is no longer being accepted. Email, yes, ecology damaging PAPER, no.
You LICKED that stamp and homeland security has determined that to be a potential biohazard vector that was "disallowed" two months ago.
*shrugs*
It is the METHOD of handling the monies which is in contention.
General consensus is that EA bungled the process ...
A sober judge is likely to agree ...
A company lawyer (any) would likely ask: What the hell do you mean you ain't out there kissing ass and upgrading accounts as fast as is humanly possible?
You Should be out there NOW with EM events and Special appearances and ANYTHING else you can do to keep them otherwise occupied ...
AT LEAST do something other than mumble a "thank you for your patience" ... THEY did not GIVE you their patience ...
YOU are stealing it and wearing it out, using it up ... assuming that they are too used to too little too late too poorly designed and or delivered.
THINK about what has happened ... You have BOTH not only made it harder for them to give you money ...
You made it EASIER for them to quit wanting too ...
GUESS what happens when someone >cannot< cancel an auto account and they get charged for that, and that charge puts them in slightest inconvenience? Or that they return to the game and instead of a global revert ... only their house fell (CC info did NOT migrate, needs to be reaffirmed/ properly linked, for the >customers safety<)
Well, that's how MY lawyer groups would approach it ...Get in front of a "(legally)questionable" situation WITH correctly documented >concern< for your "valued customers" ... ya can recover those costs down the road ... how easy will it be to get ANY customer back, after getting torked off and jerked around and talking really really nasty about you in public? pfffft! you think "first impressions" are difficult to spin? we're talking about another in a long list of neglectful behavior ...
AND we're talking about never grew up entitled to have their demands met, because they gave you ten dollars a month, immediate gratification seeking FANADDICTS ...
(well not >me< ... them *points* ... *grins*)
*shrugs*
Have a real lawyer look the entire situation over, Sure! >bias it< by having him read THIS at least ... tell him it is a "proposition for a moot court hearing" ...
give him access to the TOS and these forums ... familiarize him with all aspects.
I would be amused to see another "opinion" brought forth (but not in an on going "suit" ... too late then )
Make that an "informed opinion", from a Real contract lawyer ... not a google trained poser ... is what I'm saying.
One last, but not final. Per the TOS:This section provides that the Law of California, USA applies to this Agreement.
Ta
DAAAAA(btw) Technically, some accounts ARE in free time, those accounts that properly expired ... house hasn't even been triggered into the "grace period"
IDOCers? any houses fall in the last few? updated their active decay? curious, that is all ...
My biggest gripe is that all this new account stuff is tied to your email account lol
My second biggest gripe is they did this when there was an influx of older returning veteran players, and now all the sudden if i was a vet, and couldn't even figure out HOW to get in and activate my old account, i'd prolly just turn around and say its not even worth it.
My second biggest gripe is they did this when there was an influx of older returning veteran players, and now all the sudden if i was a vet, and couldn't even figure out HOW to get in and activate my old account, i'd prolly just turn around and say its not even worth it.
S
sayler04
Guest
Dishonest? Pretending? Do I have some running list of exactly how inconvenienced everyone has been? Do you? I went back through the post to see if maybe you had described some outstanding situation, and if I missed that I apologize. Five days unable to log in is no fun; has your house fallen yet? Have you lost everything, or might you log in when they get their ducks in a row to find that everything is mostly the same?
If you lose everything then yes, compensation, a compensation commensurate to the damage. Maybe they could buy you a vet account someone is selling, or somehow age u an account, place you a castle in a restricted area, give you a few hundred mill in gold. Heck, you might get something better than you had.
Bt until you actually know what you lost, and that it actually IS lost, all this talk about lawsuits and compensation is dishonest. Call the fire department when you smell the smoke; don't call the insurance company until you see the ashes.
M
molinaro
Guest
You have completely missed the point.
They took my money, for 6 months game time and an SA upgrade code without telling me that I would not be able to use either one for an extended period of time.
So ya I know exactly what I lost, about $100 that is essentially a loan to them to be repaid, in product/services at some future yet to be determined date.
That is an extremely dishonest thing for a company to do.
Welcome to the world of big business. Expecting any giant corporation to have a sense of ethics is about as productive as trying to catch rain water in a colander.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I support any company ignoring or inconveniencing their customers without even acknowledging it, but stressing over it is not going to get me anything besides a few more grey hairs and another step closer to an ulcer.
This is a failed EA project... not a failed UO project.
J
Jonathan Baron
Guest
Well, we received our nutmeg of consolation.
It was like a face slap delivered with the special, Concussion Blow.
Sad.
It was like a face slap delivered with the special, Concussion Blow.
Sad.
You are not alone in your thinking... certainly you have seen the posts on the forums and know this to be true.
^^ What is sad is that it took a whole 1 minute for each dye to be created. 1/2 a minute to put in a different number for the color, and another 1/2 a minute to give it a name like lighterblue. 4 minutes total for the 4 dyes.
One sheep for the graphics revamp. Baa baa. One charge for the dyes. You wanted a message from the person responsible for all this mess. Maybe that's it.
One sheep for the graphics revamp. Baa baa. One charge for the dyes. You wanted a message from the person responsible for all this mess. Maybe that's it.
Well, at this point I would be surprised if the management awareness of UO is anything above "We are still running that?". And so, the ability to give us anything above in game items seems unlikely to exist.
This is pretty weak though. They could step up a bit.
This is pretty weak though. They could step up a bit.
J
Jonathan Baron
Guest
Actually, MalagAste, I'd become frustrated by the whole thing and stopped monitoring the forum on this subject.
Only way I knew I was not alone was by the reaction of folks on my ICQ list and on a guild forum I follow closely. Followed up here because this was a thread I'd started way back when matters had risen to a level when some manner of developer delivered apology seemed in order.
I suppose it would not have been so bad really if they hadn't shown suits in those colors. If you do the math you'd need between twelve and fifteen accounts to color a suit in, say, Hunter Green.
No malice involved. We simply don't appear to have a team working for us just now. We know we don't have a Producer alas. Certainly our team would not have done something like this. Thus we have to assume it was directed from outsiders unfamiliar with both the game and the community, equipped with only good intentions. And we know the road paved by those alone
Amber Moon put it rather more elegantly than I.
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Woodsman
Guest
This did seem like a quick thing thrown together by a team that doesn't have the time, which makes me wonder if they are back to helping the Star Wars group out, since Star Wars is in the process of undergoing some massive beta testing so that they can finally give EA a release date.
Although Kai Schober did mention on the Warhammer forums that the UO and Camelot teams were helping to playtest the Warhammer arena game last week, which I found very interesting. For those of you not familiar with Kai, he's our community rep that we share with Warhammer and Camelot, but he's apparently only allowed to post on the official Warhammer forums, which he surprisingly does quite a bit. He's the one-man team in charge of the UO, Camelot, and Warhammer websites as well. You've seen him posting there.
W
Woodsman
Guest
You have to put yourself in the mindset of an EA executive. Moving everything to Origin.com has been wildly successful and they are on track to have cludged together their own version of Steam by the time Battlefield 3 rolls out in October.
They now have 130 million registered accounts through Origin and HD2300 was right about EA wanting to control the whole thing, rather than sharing revenue with say Steam:
And just wait until the UO client automatically installs the Origin client:
You just think you've seen outrage, just wait until we are forced into downloading an Origin client.
I think thats when I throw in the towel with EA. I've refused to install steam on any of my PC's (I hate the crappy software, its too intrusive and it uses up resources I dont want to be used). Every game I've ever seens with Steam I've boycotted. Might be biting my nose off despite my face but I'll be damned before I allow that kind of software on my machine. And as for EA's version? I'll rather eat rocks than let that bunch of swindling, backstabbing privacy pirates anywhere near my data.
Think of it as a blessing. Maybe it is life telling you that you should spend your last days in a stupid on line game and get out and enjoy the time you have left and the people in your life.
I have never seen a bigger group of addicts/whiners in my life.
