City Buffs... why, which, and how?

[Bianca_CoD]

I'd like to discuss this a bit more, this came up in another topic.

I think Pandora has done an excellent job as Governor. She did put up buffs before when she's raised money with her events, but just can't keep that up every week if folks do not donate. Sorry we cannot run things every single week to raise the money, but its not our responsibility to do so.

I personally have not had buffs in Minoc every week... just no way for me to do that. When I do run certain events, I raise money and I put up the Miner's Guild trade because its befitting to the city's economic goals. I have tried to ask my citizens which buffs are the best, but have gotten NO reply from them on that. I post all my information and Pandy's keeps a list "stickied" at the top of this forum for folks to contact us about this and we encourage folks to reach out.

The expectation originally was that citizens would be taxed to raise money for such buffs; not that Governors would have to shell that out of their own pockets. BUT everyone bi***ed, whined, and complained so much that they removed it by the second term. Maybe we should all come together to ask for a tax system to be reinstated or for the buffing system to be changed???

Here's my idea: I'd like to see the Governor raise the $2 million to SET a buff and only pay when they are asked to CHANGE it, then allow the citizens to pay a nominal fee (say $30,000 gold) to use the buff for 24 hours. The money paid for the buff goes into the treasury to fund more trade deals. Would anyone really be opposed to that???

Thoughts?

~ Sue.

 

[Judas D'arc]

Here's my idea: I'd like to see the Governor raise the $2 million to SET a buff and only pay when they are asked to CHANGE it, then allow the citizens to pay a nominal fee (say $30,000 gold) to use the buff for 24 hours. The money paid for the buff goes into the treasury to fund more trade deals. Would anyone really be opposed to that???

I've never been a governor, so I'm not intimately familiar with the mechanics, but is it even possible to charge/tax every time a player utilizes the stone? If not, I don't see how it's enforceable.

 

[Aedon Durreah]

Mt thoughts are simple. Far too much is being made over this entire thing. I made a post offering to run for Governor of a city that in all truth is just as dead as any of the other cities in this game. And what did I get for expending a bit of time and RP? a cluster sheep flock of hurt feelings and angry folks. The issue at hand is simple, anyone that plays this game is allowed and encouraged to run for a mock office of a virtual town, And no one who holds that mock office should take offense if someone chooses to challenge them on any platform they so choose. This is after all politics after all.

And on that subject, we have long had folks that have seen to the needs of certain towns. Trinsic has long been under the watch and care of PGOH, and no one RPer or otherwise would ever challenge their right and duty to that town. Yew was cared for by the Knights of Yew and Skara by the Rangers.

Now this new idea has cropped up and some may think it was don to encourage RP. If that is so then it was to encourage RP among all players and not just a part of the community. I should think that seeing that we all pay to play this very old game that we all have a right to expect equal representation when it comes to the "RP" surrounding our many towns. If this is not how things should be viewed, then I would just as soon opt out of any form of RP that is for the few and not the all.

I do not think anyone intended to make Pandy feel bad. We all know she has held events, as most of us have that were opened to all. But as a citizen of Brit anyone should feel free to challenge a sitting politician for office.

AT this point I am inclined to sit in Aegis, raise an army and slaughter any person, even those who represent the crown who steps foot in the Glade.

Am I mad? no. I am disappointed.

 

[Bianca_CoD]

Sooooo.... Aedon what do you think of my idea? Think we could propose a change to system that will be heard? If they changed it once because people were upset, maybe they can change it again.

~ Sue

 

[Bianca_CoD]

I've never been a governor, so I'm not intimately familiar with the mechanics, but is it even possible to charge/tax every time a player utilizes the stone? If not, I don't see how it's enforceable.

It was a tax that the Governor would set originally, but people complained so much about it (mostly the folks in Atlantic because the stones were racking up gold in large amounts due to their heavy population) they ended up changing it. I am thinking if we come up with something solid we can perhaps affect enough of a collective voice to affect some changes to it. That's all I am saying.

~ Sue.

 

[Lord Lew]

It was a tax that the Governor would set originally, but people complained so much about it (mostly the folks in Atlantic because the stones were racking up gold in large amounts due to their heavy population) they ended up changing it. I am thinking if we come up with something solid we can perhaps affect enough of a collective voice to affect some changes to it. That's all I am saying.

~ Sue.

Huh???

 

[Jolicia]

I don't know of a tax and never had one taken from any of my characters that voted the first term (on Atlantic).

 

[Aedon Durreah]

I propose it be eliminated.

 

[Flutter]

Taxing people to use the stone is a bad idea. That's why it was removed.
If a citizen from the city requests a buff it is simply the Governor's responsibility to honor the request unless another buff was requested first, or a vote was cast for another buff to be in place at that time.
Part of the privilege of being Governor is dealing with the city trade deals. If you are unprepared or unwilling to shoulder this responsibility then you shouldn't run for office. It's not a huge amount of gold.
It can be easily gained by throwing a festival or other event for the cause if you are unable or unwilling to come out of pocket for the 2 million.
If your citizens in Minoc for example are not requesting trade deals then by all means that gives you a chance to save up for when they do, but should a citizen request one, perhaps for an upcoming event of his own or if he plans on trying to fight Aedon for Aegis, or he's gone to tame wild wolves, or whatever he may need it for, it most certainly should be given upon him the ability to obtain such "buff" as he sees fit, if nothing else than for being a loyal citizen of the city and by proxy of the city, loyal to the crown. It is unfair to expect peasants and farmers to pay for the city buffs.
This is not an attack on Pandora or the way she runs her office. This is a genuine discussion of what is expected. I once was short some gold for the buff that was requested of me. I took a loan from a friend in order to pay out the buff so he who requested could use it to attend a very important hunt run by the Royal Guards themselves.
Out of character, and quite frankly, two million gold isn't hard to come by. I realize that role players are considered the "poorest" class of player, but truthfully it only takes a few treasure maps, or a bit of farming. I myself buy all the forged pardons you can provide at 1m each. People also purchase imbuing materials in droves. To be unwilling to do anything like this in order to pay for the buff is just not right in my opinion. If you have an excuse like, "you have limited game time and cant be spending it doing tmaps" or something else, that's fine, don't run for office or make a friend who DOES have the time.

Note this is my opinion on the matter and not those of any other party, Stratics, Ultima online, or any affiliated UO system including my guild or friends thereof. This all happened because I talked my friend into coming from Atlantic to play with me on Catskills. He said "I depend on the city buff do you think you can get one I am a citizen of Britain" and I said "I'm sure it wont be a problem at all, Pandora is very friendly". I was shocked to find that the repeated request for the city trade deal made her upset and bothered. I don't think it's such a big deal. Drop a couple million on the stone and have the buff for the guy. It lead to an ugly discussion over who should pay for it. In my mind, as stated above, it is the Governors' jobs to set the trade deals as needed. Not only that, but people should be reminded to use them. They are a free buff that a lot of people forget about.

 

[Aedon Durreah]

Taxing people to use the stone is a bad idea. That's why it was removed.
If a citizen from the city requests a buff it is simply the Governor's responsibility to honor the request unless another buff was requested first, or a vote was cast for another buff to be in place at that time.
Part of the privilege of being Governor is dealing with the city trade deals. If you are unprepared or unwilling to shoulder this responsibility then you shouldn't run for office. It's not a huge amount of gold.
It can be easily gained by throwing a festival or other event for the cause if you are unable or unwilling to come out of pocket for the 2 million.
If your citizens in Minoc for example are not requesting trade deals then by all means that gives you a chance to save up for when they do, but should a citizen request one, perhaps for an upcoming event of his own or if he plans on trying to fight Aedon for Aegis, or he's gone to tame wild wolves, or whatever he may need it for, it most certainly should be given upon him the ability to obtain such "buff" as he sees fit, if nothing else than for being a loyal citizen of the city and by proxy of the city, loyal to the crown. It is unfair to expect peasants and farmers to pay for the city buffs.
This is not an attack on Pandora or the way she runs her office. This is a genuine discussion of what is expected. I once was short some gold for the buff that was requested of me. I took a loan from a friend in order to pay out the buff so he who requested could use it to attend a very important hunt run by the Royal Guards themselves.
Out of character, and quite frankly, two million gold isn't hard to come by. I realize that role players are considered the "poorest" class of player, but truthfully it only takes a few treasure maps, or a bit of farming. I myself buy all the forged pardons you can provide at 1m each. People also purchase imbuing materials in droves. To be unwilling to do anything like this in order to pay for the buff is just not right in my opinion. If you have an excuse like, "you have limited game time and cant be spending it doing tmaps" or something else, that's fine, don't run for office or make a friend who DOES have the time.

Note this is my opinion on the matter and not those of any other party, Stratics, Ultima online, or any affiliated UO system including my guild or friends thereof. This all happened because I talked my friend into coming from Atlantic to play with me on Catskills. He said "I depend on the city buff do you think you can get one I am a citizen of Britain" and I said "I'm sure it wont be a problem at all, Pandora is very friendly". I was shocked to find that the repeated request for the city trade deal made her upset and bothered. I don't think it's such a big deal. Drop a couple million on the stone and have the buff for the guy. It lead to an ugly discussion over who should pay for it. In my mind, as stated above, it is the Governors' jobs to set the trade deals as needed. Not only that, but people should be reminded to use them. They are a free buff that a lot of people forget about.

Agreed, the notion of taxing players within a game is outrageous.

 

[Scarst]

Taxing people to use the stone is a bad idea. That's why it was removed.
If a citizen from the city requests a buff it is simply the Governor's responsibility to honor the request unless another buff was requested first, or a vote was cast for another buff to be in place at that time.
Part of the privilege of being Governor is dealing with the city trade deals. If you are unprepared or unwilling to shoulder this responsibility then you shouldn't run for office. It's not a huge amount of gold.
It can be easily gained by throwing a festival or other event for the cause if you are unable or unwilling to come out of pocket for the 2 million.
If your citizens in Minoc for example are not requesting trade deals then by all means that gives you a chance to save up for when they do, but should a citizen request one, perhaps for an upcoming event of his own or if he plans on trying to fight Aedon for Aegis, or he's gone to tame wild wolves, or whatever he may need it for, it most certainly should be given upon him the ability to obtain such "buff" as he sees fit, if nothing else than for being a loyal citizen of the city and by proxy of the city, loyal to the crown. It is unfair to expect peasants and farmers to pay for the city buffs.
This is not an attack on Pandora or the way she runs her office. This is a genuine discussion of what is expected. I once was short some gold for the buff that was requested of me. I took a loan from a friend in order to pay out the buff so he who requested could use it to attend a very important hunt run by the Royal Guards themselves.
Out of character, and quite frankly, two million gold isn't hard to come by. I realize that role players are considered the "poorest" class of player, but truthfully it only takes a few treasure maps, or a bit of farming. I myself buy all the forged pardons you can provide at 1m each. People also purchase imbuing materials in droves. To be unwilling to do anything like this in order to pay for the buff is just not right in my opinion. If you have an excuse like, "you have limited game time and cant be spending it doing tmaps" or something else, that's fine, don't run for office or make a friend who DOES have the time.

Note this is my opinion on the matter and not those of any other party, Stratics, Ultima online, or any affiliated UO system including my guild or friends thereof. This all happened because I talked my friend into coming from Atlantic to play with me on Catskills. He said "I depend on the city buff do you think you can get one I am a citizen of Britain" and I said "I'm sure it wont be a problem at all, Pandora is very friendly". I was shocked to find that the repeated request for the city trade deal made her upset and bothered. I don't think it's such a big deal. Drop a couple million on the stone and have the buff for the guy. It lead to an ugly discussion over who should pay for it. In my mind, as stated above, it is the Governors' jobs to set the trade deals as needed. Not only that, but people should be reminded to use them. They are a free buff that a lot of people forget about.

If I recall correctly I was easily able to get 2 mil from doing a few hours at trogs as a swordsman with that one repond slayer weapon you could pick up for 250k or get as a drop, unless the drop rate changed you could just go in the cave with a dragon or as a swordsman and farm 2mil real easy. Before all those updates to shame I knew a guy who'd farm it back in 2000 He'd pull 100k in an hour. Gold is literally toilet paper in UO cause there is no way to get rid of it put in by the game and 2 mil is a drop in the bucket for how much gold is actually on the server at any given time. Some of the rare collectors alone have almost a billion if not more last I heard and that was 2 years ago I can only imagine what they have now since literally the only this to do with gold is circulate it and you can't dump it into a vendor for anything.

 

[Pandora_CoD]

In beta for this system guys... it was in there and then removed.

Sorry but no, its not the responsibility of the Governor to pay for the buff. And I am sorry that I do not have all the time in the world to play to farm up $2 million gold a week or host a weekly event but I run a major IT Firm as CEO and have 17 employees to think about. I host various events throughout the month but they are to appeal to the players that enjoy those kind of situations. I have given folks more than enough opportunity to help fund the city's trade deals, by holding fund raising events --- if people don't come because its "stupid", how is it supposed to be my fault? Come and donate to the stone and you WILL get your buffs. I am NOT DENYING anyone the buff, again I say this... I simply refuse to pay for something I do not use. I ran for governor to RP because the majority of the system is completely 100% RP.... not to fund a buff.

That's like asking our President to pony up his own salary to fund the Affordable Care Act.... does that happen? Uhhhhh no. Yet he still ran for President and was still elected.... not once, but TWICE.

Thank you very much!

 

[Bianca_CoD]

Well then what other ideas do you have to keep a $2 million gold a week buff up? Like I said a "pay per use" for the buff under "Utilize Trade Deal" would be the best option. I mean that would be a city-wide effort to raise money for the city.

~ Sue.

 

[Flutter]

In beta for this system guys... it was in there and then removed.

Sorry but no, its not the responsibility of the Governor to pay for the buff. And I am sorry that I do not have all the time in the world to play to farm up $2 million gold a week or host a weekly event but I run a major IT Firm as CEO and have 17 employees to think about. I host various events throughout the month but they are to appeal to the players that enjoy those kind of situations. I have given folks more than enough opportunity to help fund the city's trade deals, by holding fund raising events --- if people don't come because its "stupid", how is it supposed to be my fault? Come and donate to the stone and you WILL get your buffs. I am NOT DENYING anyone the buff, again I say this... I simply refuse to pay for something I do not use. I ran for governor to RP because the majority of the system is completely 100% RP.... not to fund a buff.

That's like asking our President to pony up his own salary to fund the Affordable Care Act.... does that happen? Uhhhhh no. Yet he still ran for President and was still elected.... not once, but TWICE.

Thank you very much!

If not the responsibility of the Governor to pay for the buff then it is his or her responsibility to raise the money for the buff. And please don't compare UO situations to Real Life situations.

 

[Flutter]

Well then what other ideas do you have to keep a $2 million gold a week buff up? Like I said a "pay per use" for the buff under "Utilize Trade Deal" would be the best option. I mean that would be a city-wide effort to raise money for the city.

~ Sue.

You have a sale! Hold an open market sale.
You can have a hunt! All gold goes to the city treasury.
You can dig up treasures!
Since you love the mining/blacksmith role play how about a armor repair day? Everyone can come get their items repaired for any donation to the city stone?
Hold a contest! Half the entry fee goes to the city the other half goes to the city treasury!
I could go on, but I feel kinda trolled here. I am sure you all know how to make gold in UO. For some reason that I don't understand ya'll just don't want it to go to the city stone.
I get it if you put a bunch of money on the stone and then don't get re-elected. But at least put enough on the stone to cover your term?

 

[Smoot]

Im going state this as simply and briefly as possible, and keep in mind this is my own personal take on why the governors system was implemented. I'm sure there are many who may not agree with my observations and assumptions.

Shame loot was put into the game about 2 years ago now. Game changer.
Perfect ssi jewels have sold for around a billion gold, and even after 2 years continue to sell for hundreds of millions.
Prepatch SC FC1 mageweapons also continue to sell for up to a billion gold
The 5sdi buff can be the difference between gettting an event drop worth hundreds of millions of gold.

I saw the Governors system as the Dev's response to this, to even out the playing field for the casual player by allowing for a free buff, so everyone isnt forced to pay extraordinate amount for these items. Of course there are limitations so the shame loot is still of high value. Reds can not utilize them, and they only last 24 hours.
5sdi
5ssi
fc1
are the ones that are the gamechangers. the other ones are useful of course too, but not to the same extent gold / template wise.

The system also provided a prop for RP. So the devs came up with a system that had something for everyone in their minds.
I don't really see the governors system as the best form of RP. People have been RPing town relations since the game came out and the new system can be troublesome to that. You shouldn't have to be "forced" to win an election just to RP claim over a certain town or area and hold player events. Anyone can RP town relations / claims / wars / invasions no matter who is the governor on the stone.
I don't know why a cost was involved. 2mil a week is nothing for many, and alot for many. But as it is now yes the cost is there, and the buff is a substantial aspect of the system. maybe the cost can be eliminated in the future.

I decided to run for governor because its "easy" RP for me. Ive been away from RP for a couple years and thought this might be a good way to get my feet wet. A campaign, the meetings and town events / hunts i would hold would be a good way to get involved on a shard a really enjoy. The buff is just "part of the job" that i myself personally would want to cover in some way if i were taking the time to run and hold the position. Im not saying its a prerequisite in the minds of all. I would want to cover all aspects of the position as best i could. I know it can be hard for smaller shards where its more difficult to make gold to cover the costs. As i said before i dont think the cost should even be there at all. Catkills is a fun shard that ive been playing more and more, away from the mess that is atlantic. And figured if i was going to run, i might as well run for the biggest city.

 

[Bianca_CoD]

So you are not even a Catskillian?

 

[Aedon Durreah]

So you are not even a Catskillian?

Many folks have come to Cats from other shards and made their home here. Some leave and try other lands and in time may find they are on the road back to our shard. It is not fair to another player to question their status as a player of Catskills. If you do that then you will also need to address those holding dual citizenship, meaning they play on Cats and let us say Atlantic.

 

[Smoot]

So you are not even a Catskillian?

I have been a Catskillian for about 3 months now and am having a great time. I started playing on Atlantic and have been there since the begining of the game, but really just do my crafting and trading there now. I play on several shards here and there but enjoy Catskills the most. Hoping to become a bigger part of the shard

 

[Bianca_CoD]

Well then, like I said before. Good luck! Anything that is needed you can ask for. We're happy to help.

 

[Pandora_CoD]

If not the responsibility of the Governor to pay for the buff then it is his or her responsibility to raise the money for the buff. And please don't compare UO situations to Real Life situations.

Oh dear Flutterbug, you've made me see the errors of my ways... one can only bow down to such greatness. I've learned o' so much from my very first term as Governor, and hope to do so much better on my next! I cannot thank you enough!!!! Enjoy your buffs.

 

[Flutter]