• Hail Guest!
    We're looking for Community Content Contribuitors to Stratics. If you would like to write articles, fan fiction, do guild or shard event recaps, it's simple. Find out how in this thread: Community Contributions
  • Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
  • Hail Guest!,
    Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
  • Hail Guest!
    Please read the new announcement concerning the upcoming addition to Stratics. You can find the announcement Here!

Chivalry needs Equal Rights

Great DC

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Why is chivalry exempt from the SDI break like every other casting skills? Chivalry has to ability to deal casting damage now due to masteries. Any other casting skill such as magery, mysticism, necromancy is considered non focused when ran with bushido, ninjitsu, spellweaving, taming. Why is chivalry allowed to use those skills and cast twice as fast as the other casting skills and still keep max damage on holy fist. The SDI damage for chivalry should be treated with equal rights as any other casting template. Also @Bleak @Kyronix, I reported a chivalry bug that allows people to precast holy fist and with target still up, that player can still spam holy light without having to recast holy fist. Imagine if someone could spam wither while holding a precast FS. This needs to be fixed. Thanks
 

Uriah Heep

Grand Poobah
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
They need to take time from creating new high HP mobs and do a balance pass to all the magic ingame. Still makes me mad that they wont fix a few magery spells to work like the newer disciplines. For instance:

You can cast summons in other disciplines fairly quickly, but the mages Blade Spirit takes f o r e v e r to get off.

You can stand in a large group of mobs and cast wither and do normal damage to everyone of em in range, but the mage spells chain lightning and meteor swarm will get diluted with the damage split to the point (I have seen) of only doing only 6-7 damage to each mob, with a longer cast time, and a much greater mana cost.

NO, I am NOT advocating changing wither, I AM however hoping someday somehow some group of devs will realize some of us still are attached to our mages, and will bring their spells into the 21st century.

Sorry for the OT rant...
 

ysolt

Seasoned Veteran
Why is chivalry exempt from the SDI break like every other casting skills? Chivalry has to ability to deal casting damage now due to masteries. Any other casting skill such as magery, mysticism, necromancy is considered non focused when ran with bushido, ninjitsu, spellweaving, taming. Why is chivalry allowed to use those skills and cast twice as fast as the other casting skills and still keep max damage on holy fist. The SDI damage for chivalry should be treated with equal rights as any other casting template. Also @Bleak @Kyronix, I reported a chivalry bug that allows people to precast holy fist and with target still up, that player can still spam holy light without having to recast holy fist. Imagine if someone could spam wither while holding a precast FS. This needs to be fixed. Thanks
Chivalry spell damage boost come's from an up keep of high karma,if they have low karma they wont be doing anywhere near 35 damage holy fist.

Chivalry cannot be casting at 4/6 rate if they are using necro,myst,magery,spellweave,As for bush and ninjitsu,they dont apply to casting cap is probably because most of the spells used in bushido or ninjitsu actually don't use's thier spell to do damage rather you need to use it along with some sort of wep skill.
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Chivalry spell damage boost come's from an up keep of high karma,if they have low karma they wont be doing anywhere near 35 damage holy fist.

Chivalry cannot be casting at 4/6 rate if they are using necro,myst,magery,spellweave,As for bush and ninjitsu,they dont apply to casting cap is probably because most of the spells used in bushido or ninjitsu actually don't use's thier spell to do damage rather you need to use it along with some sort of wep skill.
Not sure if it applies to mystic as well (UOGuide says yes, but), but under 70 in Magery will let you cast Chiv at 4/6. Holy Fist Mages will go to to 69.9 Magery so they're not penalized for it.

DC: As far as the chiv casting bug - I've already posted it on here and it fell on deaf ears. Guess it's working as intended™.
 

ysolt

Seasoned Veteran
Not sure if t applies to mystic as well (UOGuide says yes, but), but under 70 in Magery will let you cast Chiv at 4/6. Holy Fist Mages will go to to 69.9 Magery so they're not penalized for it.

DC: As far as the chiv casting bug - I've already posted it on here and it fell on deaf ears. Guess it's working as intended™.
Forgot about that,But,using only 69.9 magery and the highest lvl spell you can cast is lightning which only doe's a little amount of damage cause of low eval i don't think it's that big of a deal.
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Forgot about that,But,using only 69.9 magery and the highest lvl spell you can cast is lightning which only doe's a little amount of damage cause of low eval i don't think it's that big of a deal.
Right. I play with two guys that do use it, and they mostly use magery for interrupts, i.e. weaken. It's also funny as **** watching them sync on a target. The guy dies so fast.
 

ysolt

Seasoned Veteran
Right. I play with two guys that do use it, and they mostly use magery for interrupts, i.e. weaken. It's also funny as **** watching them sync on a target. The guy dies so fast.
LOL,two mage,s syncing FS,thier target die's even faster, fs do'e's more damage than fist.
 

Great DC

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Karma upkeep is easy to keep at max or close to it. If bushido and ninjitsu and taming make no difference why is it that it breaks SDI on any other casting skill. When there is template in game that most people are using for pvp, something is wrong with the balance of it. People are taking advantage explosion type damage at faster speed in combo with dreads and other pets as well as most of the weaving spells which are lower then 69 skill. If chivalry didn't have holy fist, these templates would hardly be used. All casting needs to be equal opportunity offenders, no special instances where one gets a free pass. Chivalry is meant for paladin type templates to use at max damage, not tamers or samurai. Only the people using this OP template would say its not.
 

ysolt

Seasoned Veteran
Karma upkeep is easy to keep at max or close to it. If bushido and ninjitsu and taming make no difference why is it that it breaks SDI on any other casting skill. When there is template in game that most people are using for pvp, something is wrong with the balance of it. People are taking advantage explosion type damage at faster speed in combo with dreads and other pets as well as most of the weaving spells which are lower then 69 skill. If chivalry didn't have holy fist, these templates would hardly be used. All casting needs to be equal opportunity offenders, no special instances where one gets a free pass. Chivalry is meant for paladin type templates to use at max damage, not tamers or samurai. Only the people using this OP template would say its not.
Karma up keep is not as easy as you think,go and try it for yourself.on a fister char.

There are that many fister's?,on ATLANATIC(BUSIEST SHARD),there's a grand total of.... 4 fister's!

And last time i played my ninja parry mage my sdi cap of 30 didn't break weird eh?
 

ysolt

Seasoned Veteran
Maybe fister's with taming need's to be looked at,but without a dread,fister's damage is same as AI'ing,and even slower than AI's.
 

Great DC

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
No its not the same cause Fist is guaranteed damage, AI is not guaranteed. Considering 90 percent of mages have parry and most dexxies are running bush parry. A dexxer could wiff 5-10 shots in a row where the fister can just spam it guaranteed. People need to look at this without a biased opinion due to them using the template. It needs to be fixed. The damage from holy fist should have a lower cap damage if run with bushido, ninjitsu, taming or spellweaving over 30 skill points just like anything else. I can also argue the exploit of exodus keys if you want.
 

ysolt

Seasoned Veteran
No its not the same cause Fist is guaranteed damage, AI is not guaranteed. Considering 90 percent of mages have parry and most dexxies are running bush parry. A dexxer could wiff 5-10 shots in a row where the fister can just spam it guaranteed. People need to look at this without a biased opinion due to them using the template. It needs to be fixed. The damage from holy fist should have a lower cap damage if run with bushido, ninjitsu, taming or spellweaving over 30 skill points just like anything else. I can also argue the exploit of exodus keys if you want.
You could say fist WAS guarantee damage before the nerf,but now its like all other spell's it CAN be disrupted.
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Karma up keep is not as easy as you think,go and try it for yourself.on a fister char.

There are that many fister's?,on ATLANATIC(BUSIEST SHARD),there's a grand total of.... 4 fister's!

And last time i played my ninja parry mage my sdi cap of 30 didn't break weird eh?
Actually, it is quite easy. Exodus ritual 3x for 30k karma, you'll do max/near max with Fist. I believe that's on an uncursed target. On a cursed target, I believe you need ~26k karma.

LOL,two mage,s syncing FS,thier target die's even faster, fs do'e's more damage than fist.
Not quite correct, although FS will do more damage than Holy Fist. Fist casts faster than any high damage mage spell, and if you're dying to 2 FS sync'ing mages (JUST FS, anyway - explo/FS is understandable), you REALLY need to raise your strength/HP.
 

ysolt

Seasoned Veteran
No its not the same cause Fist is guaranteed damage, AI is not guaranteed. Considering 90 percent of mages have parry and most dexxies are running bush parry. A dexxer could wiff 5-10 shots in a row where the fister can just spam it guaranteed. People need to look at this without a biased opinion due to them using the template. It needs to be fixed. The damage from holy fist should have a lower cap damage if run with bushido, ninjitsu, taming or spellweaving over 30 skill points just like anything else. I can also argue the exploit of exodus keys if you want.
Argue for exodus exploit of keys?,no need you know that you can craft keys! But can you kill exodus with a fister?.
 

ysolt

Seasoned Veteran
Actually, it is quite easy. Exodus ritual 3x for 30k karma, you'll do max/near max with Fist. I believe that's on an uncursed target. On a cursed target, I believe you need ~26k karma.



Not quite correct, although FS will do more damage than Holy Fist. Fist casts faster than any high damage mage spell, and if you're dying to 2 FS sync'ing mages (JUST FS, anyway - explo/FS is understandable), you REALLY need to raise your strength/HP.
If you are arguing about casting time, fist can be avoided just like any other spell's justed by running away.but if you are arguing about 2 mage's syncing,and precastng FS still is the way to go.
 

ysolt

Seasoned Veteran
Actually, it is quite easy. Exodus ritual 3x for 30k karma, you'll do max/near max with Fist. I believe that's on an uncursed target. On a cursed target, I believe you need ~26k karma.



Not quite correct, although FS will do more damage than Holy Fist. Fist casts faster than any high damage mage spell, and if you're dying to 2 FS sync'ing mages (JUST FS, anyway - explo/FS is understandable), you REALLY need to raise your strength/HP.
And you are arguing about karma up keep?,doe's a focused mage need to up keep his sdi or just keep the sdi on thier jewls or w/e?

Cause i know if some blue attack my friend ill be killing him and thus taking a murder count and losing my karma AND SDI along with it.
 
Last edited:

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Argue for exodus exploit of keys?,no need you know that you can craft keys! But can you kill exodus with a fister?.
Yes, I know you can. You can also farm them. You don't need to go kill the boss either, you can just do the ritual for the +10k karma (and -10k, if you're so inclined. But a Cloak of corruption does that faster.)

And you are arguing about karma up keep?,doe's a focused mage need to up keep his sdi or just keep the sdi on thier jewls or w/e?

Cause i know if some blue attack my friend ill be killing him and thus taking a murder count and losing my karma AND SDI along with it.
Which is why you don't attack blues. OJ's, Reds, and grays.

If you are arguing about casting time, fist can be avoided just like any other spell's justed by running away.but if you are arguing about 2 mage's syncing,and precastng FS still is the way to go.
And while you're running, you're going to get hit by Fist. And no, sync'd precast FS is NOT the way to go. At least not for two mages. At best, they'll do 110 damage (55 damage with two full charged spell focusing sashes), which will leave about 40 HP.
 

ysolt

Seasoned Veteran
Yes, I know you can. You can also farm them. You don't need to go kill the boss either, you can just do the ritual for the +10k karma (and -10k, if you're so inclined. But a Cloak of corruption does that faster.)

SO if im at -10k karma and gain +20k ill still be at only +10k karma? can you tell me if thats enough for max damage fist's?,i can tell you it's not.


Which is why you don't attack blues. OJ's, Reds, and grays.

Like i can pick and choose who should be allowed to attack me or my friend's!,HEY, wait you are blue dont attack me or my friend's!.

And while you're running, you're going to get hit by Fist. And no, sync'd precast FS is NOT the way to go. At least not for two mages. At best, they'll do 110 damage (55 damage with two full charged spell focusing sashes), which will leave about 40 HP.
So if they will only do 110 damage with two fS how much damage can i do with two fist's?.
 

ysolt

Seasoned Veteran
So im at negative 10k karma,i farm +20k karma ,how much karma do i have now?,and ois that enough to up keep my max sdi for fist?
 

ysolt

Seasoned Veteran
Don't attack blue's? like i have a right to tell the blue's in fel!,hey!, you are blue don't attack me or my friend's so i dont have to take a count!
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
So im at negative 10k karma,i farm +20k karma ,how much karma do i have now?,and ois that enough to up keep my max sdi for fist?
No. You'll only be at +10k. Ideally you'd want 20k+ for best results

Don't attack blue's? like i have a right to tell the blue's in fel!,hey!, you are blue don't attack me or my friend's so i dont have to take a count!
...you do realize you could just not flag on them first, right? I think it was quite clear that I meant "Don't attack blues first" if you're on a Fister, since losing karma from taking murder counts is counterproductive to the char's offense. I never said "Don't attack them at all."
 

ysolt

Seasoned Veteran
No. You'll only be at +10k. Ideally you'd want 20k+ for best results

Oh thank's for the feed back,so i still have to farm for karma as oppose to having sdi on my jewls no matter whater or who i kill.

...you do realize you could just not flag on them first, right? I think it was quite clear that I meant "Don't attack blues first" if you're on a Fister, since losing karma from taking murder counts is counterproductive to the char's offense. I never said "Don't attack them at all."
Don't flag on them first?!,ok ill just sit here and watch my friend get killed,is that what you do?,if that IS what you do,than i guess arena's and asking for 1vs1's are just **** talking.
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Don't flag on them first?!,ok ill just sit here and watch my friend get killed,is that what you do?,if that IS what you do,than i guess arena's and asking for 1vs1's are just **** talking.
Actually, I'm Red on Atl, and unless it's a gz, I'll keep whoever's getting dumped on alive. As long as it's reasonably possible to do so.

One more time: there is a difference in not attacking someone first (so you don't take a murder count, which, again, you DO NOT WANT on a chiv char) and healing someone who's getting attacked, even if they're Red.

ill only be at 10 k karma! wow you really answerd my Q,is that enough to up keep my sdi?.
for Fist? Nope. I believe you'll do less than 20 damage at that level, even to a cursed target. Ice Fiends is another option if you're not interested in Exodus, but you max out at around 26k.
 

ysolt

Seasoned Veteran
Actually, I'm Red on Atl, and unless it's a gz, I'll keep whoever's getting dumped on alive. As long as it's reasonably possible to do so.

One more time: there is a difference in not attacking someone first (so you don't take a murder count, which, again, you DO NOT WANT on a chiv char) and healing someone who's getting attacked, even if they're Red.

So in other's word's go red, and all will be solved.
 

ysolt

Seasoned Veteran
Actually, I'm Red on Atl, and unless it's a gz, I'll keep whoever's getting dumped on alive. As long as it's reasonably possible to do so.

One more time: there is a difference in not attacking someone first (so you don't take a murder count, which, again, you DO NOT WANT on a chiv char) and healing someone who's getting attacked, even if they're Red.



for Fist? Nope. I believe you'll do less than 20 damage at that level, even to a cursed target. Ice Fiends is another option if you're not interested in Exodus, but you max out at around 26k.
Thanks'for answering my Q, so is two FS better or TWO fist's,better?.
 

Great DC

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Whats being said is all you have to do is turn in three sets of exodus keys on a brand new char and be at 30000 karma instantly. You do not have to kill the boss in order to get the karma. Turn in keys and walk out the gate for instant 10000 karma per set. Technically chivalry is on the SDI break list but it apparently doesn't affect holy fist that was added later. That damage should be reduced if chivalry is combined with ninja, bush, taming or weaving over 30 skill points. And yes ninja is on the list, so if you have a mage char over 30 skill points in ninja and keeping 30 sdi, then you apparently a bugged char or exploiting something.
 

ysolt

Seasoned Veteran
Whats being said is all you have to do is turn in three sets of exodus keys on a brand new char and be at 30000 karma instantly. You do not have to kill the boss in order to get the karma. Turn in keys and walk out the gate for instant 10000 karma per set. Technically chivalry is on the SDI break list but it apparently doesn't affect holy fist that was added later. That damage should be reduced if chivalry is combined with ninja, bush, taming or weaving over 30 skill points. And yes ninja is on the list, so if you have a mage char over 30 skill points in ninja and keeping 30 sdi, then you apparently a bugged char or exploiting something.

WOW that is easier than just finding SDI jewls! and forget about everything else!.
 

Great DC

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
All that is under discussion here is the ability to do max damage fist when combined with skills that are under the SDI break list. If you run a Pure chiv dexxer you should get max damage with your fist spell. If you run any template involving the skills under SDI break list it should lower the damage just like any other non pure template in uo. Holy fist should not be exempt. Try and stay on topic in your posts.
 

Zalan

Crazed Zealot
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
In a PvM setting it should gain SDI. However, past Devs coded Chivalry not to allow SDI. The Dev team is much smaller than the one they had for AoS. In short it's not going to happen
 

ysolt

Seasoned Veteran
All that is under discussion here is the ability to do max damage fist when combined with skills that are under the SDI break list. If you run a Pure chiv dexxer you should get max damage with your fist spell. If you run any template involving the skills under SDI break list it should lower the damage just like any other non pure template in uo. Holy fist should not be exempt. Try and stay on topic in your posts.
If i run with max sdi with chiv it's over powerd,BUT if i run with AI which is faster than fist,and other skill's it's ok,got,you.

Sorry if i was off topic.
 
Top