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Can we get rid of mana requirement for Inscription?

Dizzy

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It's the only craft that requires a cooldown. Now that there are Inscription bods, it seems like an unnecessary waste of time to wait for mana to do another round of summon earth elementals. Can't think of a pvp reason to object.

I don't mind the resources, that's a given with crafting. But just sitting there waiting for mana to regenerate isn't serving any purpose except to slow down the crafting process.

@Kyronix Can this be removed?
 

Uriah Heep

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Either let us scribe without using mana, or let us cast from scrolls without mana...
Just like casting from scrolls uses no regs cause they are already in the scroll...makes sense that mana would follow the same rule. As it is, we get charged for mana twice!!!
 

Lord Gandalf

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+1, i would also say stop using regs if the scribe/alchemist is using 100 LRC suit, 60k regs are ridiculously cheap anyways...
 

Merlin

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Getting rid of the mana requirement or use of regs would be too beneficial for scripters.
 

Dizzy

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Getting rid of the mana requirement or use of regs would be too beneficial for scripters.
Are there a lot of scripters making a fortune crafting earth elemental scrolls?

I agree with keeping the reg requirement and with keeping man requirements for casting spells from scrolls, but the mana requirement when doing Inscription BODs is tedious, even with 120 Meditation and 120 Focus. I just sit there, bored, waiting for mana to come back.
 

Lord Gandalf

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Getting rid of the mana requirement or use of regs would be too beneficial for scripters.
Scripters can already assign a secure container in there house holding endless regs to run there scripts anyway. But yes u have a point, but it doesn't bother me to see more pots going on vendors on low pop shards.
 

Dizzy

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Scripters can already assign a secure container in there house holding endless regs to run there scripts anyway. But yes u have a point, but it doesn't bother me to see more pots going on vendors on low pop shards.
Pots? Alchemy is fine. I'm talking Inscription scrolls and the mana required.

Sent from mTalk
 

BrianFreud

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Assuming 100% LRC meant no regs needed for scribing? Just off the top of my head, you'd make the total cost of any given scribe scroll the cost of a black scroll. Park scribe at scribe NPC, scribe scroll X, sell to NPC. Rinse and repeat until the buy price for that scroll drops to the cost of a blank scroll. Repeat for every other type of scroll. Then move on to the next scroll-buying NPC and do it all over again. The profits would be well beyond the dreams of the guys who used to run cartography scripts in the old days, when the profit on those was 1 or 2 gp per map.
 

Lord Gandalf

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Assuming 100% LRC meant no regs needed for scribing? Just off the top of my head, you'd make the total cost of any given scribe scroll the cost of a black scroll. Park scribe at scribe NPC, scribe scroll X, sell to NPC. Rinse and repeat until the buy price for that scroll drops to the cost of a blank scroll. Repeat for every other type of scroll. Then move on to the next scroll-buying NPC and do it all over again. The profits would be well beyond the dreams of the guys who used to run cartography scripts in the old days, when the profit on those was 1 or 2 gp per map.
You have a point, but id suggest to drop the price of the scrolls selling on npcs in this case. I know im starting to complicate things for the devs but thats a step forward imop
 

BeaIank

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That really needs to change, yes. Since with the current status quo, if you have 220 mana, 120 med, 120 focus, 30+ mr, you will be able to make maybe 6 level 8 scrolls before running out of mana and having to wait 12+ seconds till your pool fills back.
It is idiotic and ridiculous.
 

BrianFreud

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You have a point, but id suggest to drop the price of the scrolls selling on npcs in this case. I know im starting to complicate things for the devs but thats a step forward imop
The price does rise or fall, slowly, same as when folks are selling gems or ingots. (There's at least one shard where the Umbra necro who sells recalls is up to 94 gp per scroll.) But with regs out of the picture, what you'd see is all scrolls eventually at the buy price for blank scrolls.

Personally, I'd far rather see mana use for the use of scrolls being removed, rather than screwing with the creation step.
 

Spartan

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It's the only craft that requires a cooldown. Now that there are Inscription bods, it seems like an unnecessary waste of time to wait for mana to do another round of summon earth elementals. Can't think of a pvp reason to object.

I don't mind the resources, that's a given with crafting. But just sitting there waiting for mana to regenerate isn't serving any purpose except to slow down the crafting process.

@Kyronix Can this be removed?
I have found that with Focus on the skill list, my scribe can regen mana at a really fast clip when meditating. If you have room, add that and let it get up to about 90 for a fast regen rate.
 

BrianFreud

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Buy high mana regen armor. Antique, whatever, all you really care about is that it's high mana regen and medable - your scribe's not fighting, so that stuff will last forever, and price-wise, you can pick it up for peanuts. With max med and focus, you'll still have slight waits, but they're bearable.
 

Basara

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Another option - Since scrolls' casting success chance is as if two levels lower (a 5th level scroll, for example, has the same casting success chance as a 3rd level spell from the book)...

How about making the mana requirement two levels lower for casting and crafting (and maybe even then allowing LMC apply)?
 

BrianFreud

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Allowing LMC seems balanced; at least the cost to produce is still there.

Somewhat off the subject, but two other scribe-related things that would be nice changes would be...

1) Create an "acid wash tub" or something to allow turning spellbooks, 'junk' Scrappers, and unwanted scrolls into blank scrolls. With spellbooks being blessed, they're a little more troublesome to trash. Might help avoid the piles of unwanted books that show up at banks, and it'd sortof be a "recycle" option for scribes, along the lines of other craft skills.

2) Make copying regular books succeed 100% at 20. Even with a human's jack of all trades inherent 20 inscription, you'll fail 2 or 3 times out of 4 when copying books. There's literally no positive to failing a book copy, only annoyance at having to keep retrying until you succeed.
 

Basara

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I like the acid wash tub idea

Traditionally, before mass production of paper, books were routinely reused, typically by bleaching or whitewashing pages.

We know of some ancient writings only because we salvaged parts from reused books.

Palimpsest - Wikipedia
 

Piotr

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It actually makes sense to remove the reagent requirement for making magic scrolls.

Assuming 100% LRC meant no regs needed for scribing? Just off the top of my head, you'd make the total cost of any given scribe scroll the cost of a black scroll.
Wrong! You also use a Scripe's Pen, which has a limited number of uses.

Realistically, it shouldn't cost reagents (nor mana) to write down the words of a spell on a piece of paper, however it should cost reagents and mana to cast the spell!

To keep up the production costs, the cost of the Scripe's Pen scould be increased. Raise the NPC store price from 8 gp to 40 gp and let it cost 1 sand + 1 feather + 1 Goblin Blood (or something else for ink) to craft them yourself.
 

GarthGrey

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I must be the only one that thinks a 100% lrc suit should apply to everything that needs reagents, and always should have. Yet people are asking for 5 control slot Ancient Mules...smh.
 

BrianFreud

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Wrong! You also use a Scripe's Pen, which has a limited number of uses.
True enough, though it's rather a deminimis cost... 8 gp for a pen, you're looking at somewhere around 0.08 to 0.16 gp per use. So to not start losing gold, you'd have to stop when the sell price of a given scroll was cost of blank scrolls + 1 gp. :p
 

OREOGL

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Getting rid of the mana requirement or use of regs would be too beneficial for scripters.
Yeah, we all know the mass amounts of scripting that happen there...and the killing they'd make off it.

It's also ridiculous to assume scripts wouldn't already account for meditation. This makes this moot.
 

cazador

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Nobody can just play the game. Leave the mana requirement. Only thing I'd say is ok is have it take lower mana cost into account.


....
 

cazador

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Buy high mana regen armor. Antique, whatever, all you really care about is that it's high mana regen and medable - your scribe's not fighting, so that stuff will last forever, and price-wise, you can pick it up for peanuts. With max med and focus, you'll still have slight waits, but they're bearable.
Never mind a second account with bard buffs. My Scribe stays in lich form with a wisp and 120 Med/focus..this game is so easy yet all people do is complain to alter for "them"


....
 

Piotr

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True enough, though it's rather a deminimis cost... 8 gp for a pen, you're looking at somewhere around 0.08 to 0.16 gp per use. So to not start losing gold, you'd have to stop when the sell price of a given scroll was cost of blank scrolls + 1 gp. :p
That's why I suggested to increase the price on Scripe's Pens. Maybe 40 gp is a bit low, 80-100 gp would be more balanced.
 

Merlin

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Yeah, we all know the mass amounts of scripting that happen there...and the killing they'd make off it.

It's also ridiculous to assume scripts wouldn't already account for meditation. This makes this moot.
By all means, I'm not saying making Magery scrolls will turn into a multi-platinum empire overnight with the proposed change and break the game. However, margins on attempting to make and sell scrolls are already extremely tight (I know from experience) and this change would make that even worse. Scripters would be in an even better position to corner, control and flood the market than they already are.

The one change I could see happening is what @Bealank suggested, in atleast allowing LMC to apply. That's something that is probably overlooked here.

Ultimately, there are already enough ways to get scrolls simply by killing monsters, so I don't think it would be a massive change even if it were applied. However, in that light, I also don't think scroll making is so broken that this should even be on the radar of future changes. No one is going to leave game because they have to wait for mana to refill to inscribe a few more scrolls.
 

OREOGL

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By all means, I'm not saying making Magery scrolls will turn into a multi-platinum empire overnight with the proposed change and break the game. However, margins on attempting to make and sell scrolls are already extremely tight (I know from experience) and this change would make that even worse. Scripters would be in an even better position to corner, control and flood the market than they already are.

The one change I could see happening is what @Bealank suggested, in atleast allowing LMC to apply. That's something that is probably overlooked here.

Ultimately, there are already enough ways to get scrolls simply by killing monsters, so I don't think it would be a massive change even if it were applied. However, in that light, I also don't think scroll making is so broken that this should even be on the radar of future changes. No one is going to leave game because they have to wait for mana to refill to inscribe a few more scrolls.

Again, scripting is a moot point. The difference in meditating can already be accounted for. This makes the economic argument irrelevant. Especially if you remove the reagent requirement which would actually improve the margin.

Regardless, the mana requirement should be removed. I get having reagents but removing mana consumption would put it on par with other trade skills.

Comparatively, if you look at alchemists which doesn't have a stat consumption, shards aren't exactly being overflowed with potions.


It's a quality of life change that doesn't affect any of the things you have mentioned.

I mean, you could also farm mongbats for gold if you look at it from your perspective. But no one is going to go out and farm scrolls to fill out a spellbook or to get around in game.
 

Dizzy

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Geez. All I wanted to do was to eliminate the boring down time while making scrolls. Inscription is the only skill with a cooldown waiting for mana. Not carpentry, blacksmithing, alchemy, those I just gather the material and craft away. Crafting is already so tedious, but Inscription, though, I have to sit and wait. It's boring *and* tedious. I didn't see a downside to eliminating mana; it makes sense, makes the game more playable, doesn't interfere with game play. Y'all are waay overthinking things and I can tell you don't fill Inscription BODs.
 

BrianFreud

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Then you're not doing the math. Let's look at just 5 of scrolls at random, using Odetta at the central Luna mage shop on Atlantic.

Fire Field sells for 27 gp.
Greater Heal sells for 26 gp.
Lightning sells for 1 gp.
Mana Drain sells for 29 gp.
Recall sells for 18 gp.

Costs:


Fire Field = 1 Black Pearl + 1 Spider Silk + 1 Sulfurous Ash
Greater Heal = 1 Garlic + 1 Ginseng + 1 Mandrake Root + 1 Spider Silk
Mana Drain = 1 Black Pearl + 1 Mandrake Root + 1 Spider Silk
Recall = 1 Black Pearl + 1 Blood Moss + 1 Mandrake Root

Let's assume you don't have tens of thousands of regs sitting around (found/bought at a cost well below NPC prices, normally), and you need to actually buy all supplies.

Scribes Pen: 8 gp. Let's go low and assume only 50 uses per pen, so 0.16 gp per scroll.

Black Pearl = 5 gp
Blood Moss = 5 gp
Garlic = 3 gp
Ginseng = 3 gp
Mandrake Root = 3 gp
Spider Silk = 3 gp
Sulfurous Ash = 3 gp
blank scroll = 5 gp

Fire Field = 1 Black Pearl + 1 Spider Silk + 1 Sulfurous Ash = 16.16 gp per scroll
Greater Heal = 1 Garlic + 1 Ginseng + 1 Mandrake Root + 1 Spider Silk = 17.16 gp per scroll
Mana Drain = 1 Black Pearl + 1 Mandrake Root + 1 Spider Silk = 16.16 gp per scroll
Recall = 1 Black Pearl + 1 Blood Moss + 1 Mandrake Root = 18.16 gp per scroll

So now let's assume you did as suggested, and 100% LRC means no reg use. You also have zero waits, other than the time each scroll takes to craft, because you got rid of the mana requirement. So now I can make 50 of any of those scrolls in a minute or less. Notice how Lightning on that NPC is already selling for 1 gp; someone's already driven that buy price down the minimum 1 gp. Now your cost to make any of those scrolls is instead 0.16 gp.

Fire Field: over 26 gp profit per scroll. 1092 gp profit per pen
Greater Heal: over 25 gp profit per scroll. 1042 gp profit per pen
Mana Drain: over 28 gp profit per scroll. 1192 gp profit per pen
Recall: over 17 gp profit per scroll. 642 gp profit per pen

That's better profit than selling ingots to smiths.

Now think about just how many scrolls there are. Now think about just how many NPCs there are on every single shard who buy scrolls. 1092 gp doesn't sound like a lot. That's 65.5k per hour. 1.57m per day. Still doesn't sound like a lot, but we're talking but we're talking something that can be done on a hidden char, is 100% safe, and where the "hotspot" GMs would have to watch for scripters is... every single mage/scribe/etc shop on every facet on every shard. Ie, it essentially can't be policed. So you just park trial accounts and have the chars make free gold.

Folks here often talk about how they've never been rich in UO; I see people saying something like "I maybe have 30m in the bank, and that's more than I've ever had before" all the time. That 1342 gp profit from a pen... That's 574m profit per year, per char the scripter bothers to do it on... that's at least 10x the profits carto ever allowed, and look how heavily that got scripted.
 
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Piotr

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Then you're not doing the math. Let's look at just 5 of scrolls at random, using Odetta at the central Luna mage shop on Atlantic.

Fire Field sells for 27 gp.
Greater Heal sells for 26 gp.
Lightning sells for 1 gp.
Mana Drain sells for 29 gp.
Recall sells for 18 gp.

Costs:


Fire Field = 1 Black Pearl + 1 Spider Silk + 1 Sulfurous Ash
Greater Heal = 1 Garlic + 1 Ginseng + 1 Mandrake Root + 1 Spider Silk
Mana Drain = 1 Black Pearl + 1 Mandrake Root + 1 Spider Silk
Recall = 1 Black Pearl + 1 Blood Moss + 1 Mandrake Root

Let's assume you don't have tens of thousands of regs sitting around (found/bought at a cost well below NPC prices, normally), and you need to actually buy all supplies.

Scribes Pen: 8 gp. Let's go low and assume only 50 uses per pen, so 0.16 gp per scroll.

Black Pearl = 5 gp
Blood Moss = 5 gp
Garlic = 3 gp
Ginseng = 3 gp
Mandrake Root = 3 gp
Spider Silk = 3 gp
Sulfurous Ash = 3 gp

Fire Field = 1 Black Pearl + 1 Spider Silk + 1 Sulfurous Ash = 11.16 gp per scroll
Greater Heal = 1 Garlic + 1 Ginseng + 1 Mandrake Root + 1 Spider Silk = 12.16 gp per scroll
Mana Drain = 1 Black Pearl + 1 Mandrake Root + 1 Spider Silk = 11.16 gp per scroll
Recall = 1 Black Pearl + 1 Blood Moss + 1 Mandrake Root = 13.16 gp per scroll

So now let's assume you did as suggested, and 100% LRC means no reg use. You also have zero waits, other than the time each scroll takes to craft, because you got rid of the mana requirement. So now I can make 50 of any of those scrolls in a minute or less. Notice how Lightning on that NPC is already selling for 1 gp; someone's already driven that buy price down the minimum 1 gp. Now your cost to make any of those scrolls is instead 0.16 gp.

Fire Field: over 26 gp profit per scroll. 1342 gp profit per pen
Greater Heal: over 25 gp profit per scroll. 1292 gp profit per pen
Mana Drain: over 28 gp profit per scroll. 1442 gp profit per pen
Recall: over 17 gp profit per scroll. 892 gp profit per pen

That's better profit than selling ingots to smiths.

Now think about just how many scrolls there are. Now think about just how many NPCs there are on every single shard who buy scrolls. 1342 gp doesn't sound like a lot. That's 80.5k per hour. 1.9m per day. Still doesn't sound like a lot, but we're talking but we're talking something that can be done on a hidden char, is 100% safe, and where the "hotspot" GMs would have to watch for scripters is... every single mage/scribe/etc shop on every facet on every shard. Ie, it essentially can't be policed. So you just park trial accounts and have the chars make free gold.

Folks here often talk about how they've never been rich in UO; I see people saying something like "I maybe have 30m in the bank, and that's more than I've ever had before" all the time. That 1342 gp profit from a pen... That's 703.4m profit per year, per char the scripter bothers to do it on... that's at least 10x the profits carto ever allowed, and look how heavily that got scripted.

Blank Scrolls, Brian? :tongue:
 

Lord Frodo

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WOW 1.9M a day. I am sure scripters will jump all over this so they can collect there $0.80 every day. LOL it will cost you more in wear and tear plus utilities to do this. Scripter are not going to work for $0.80 a day. Give it a rest. ! billion gold on a 3rd party is $225, yes yes I know people say it can be gotten cheaper and all that other BS, but come on who is going to work 8760 hours for $225, you do understand that is 2 and a half cent an hour.
 
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BrianFreud

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doh knew I forgot something in there Piotr :D

@Lord Frodo, who said that's all they'd be doing? Go to some shards and you'll see BOD scripter chars logging in and out all day long. Now they could just stay and scribe, rather than bothering to log out.

You keep comparing inscription to all the other skills. No other crafting skill has any profit-maker that comes anything close to what this would do, *intentionally*. When cartography did have a decent profit, it was specifically tweaked to remove that profit. Hell, you used to be able to make a couple million a day buying gems and selling them back to other NPCs, and even that got pretty much cancelled out; you'd maybe make a couple dozen k now, and you at least have to be moving around from NPC to NPC to pull that off.
 

Lord Frodo

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doh knew I forgot something in there Piotr :D

@Lord Frodo, who said that's all they'd be doing? Go to some shards and you'll see BOD scripter chars logging in and out all day long. Now they could just stay and scribe, rather than bothering to log out.

You keep comparing inscription to all the other skills. No other crafting skill has any profit-maker that comes anything close to what this would do, *intentionally*. When cartography did have a decent profit, it was specifically tweaked to remove that profit. Hell, you used to be able to make a couple million a day buying gems and selling them back to other NPCs, and even that got pretty much cancelled out; you'd maybe make a couple dozen k now, and you at least have to be moving around from NPC to NPC to pull that off.
I did not compare anything to anything I used your numbers and you even stated that it was an all day thing so how can they do anything else and now you changed you profit to even lower. Now it is 1.57M a day that is what $0.60 a day that doesn't even pay you electric bill. Seriously no one works for $0.60 a day even in 3rd world countries. And please tell me which shards you still find BOD Scripters on. Do you seriously think that UO is this massive cash cow like it was 10 years ago. I play on 3 low populated shards and have Crafters/BOD collectors along with resource gathers one all 3 shards and I have not seen one scripter in well over 5 years.
 

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It's the only craft that requires a cooldown. Now that there are Inscription bods, it seems like an unnecessary waste of time to wait for mana to do another round of summon earth elementals. Can't think of a pvp reason to object.

I don't mind the resources, that's a given with crafting. But just sitting there waiting for mana to regenerate isn't serving any purpose except to slow down the crafting process.

@Kyronix Can this be removed?
Agree 100%

I have a 30mana regen suit, gm med, and still find myself sitting and staring at the wall waiting for the mana to replenish when crafting scrolls.

Don't know why ppl had to cloud the issue by talking about taking out reg requirement etc. Just make INSCRIBING scrolls use no mana to make the process quicker. Leave the rest as it is.
 

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I have mr2 on each suit piece, MR3 on both the ring and brace, 120 med, lich form which adds MR, with a wisp, and hold a staff with MR 9. still seems like takes forever.

What agitates me even more is spending the gold on a legendary med scroll, and it seems like everytime I try to med I fail...not whining, but it doesn't make any sense to me to have to sit and wait till mana regens halfway naturally to meditate
 

Winker

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Getting rid of the mana requirement or use of regs would be too beneficial for scripters.
Scripters dont care about time, or consumibles they set a script to run then go off to bed and take consumables as needed from a box and time waiting for mana to regen means nothing. True Story !
 

Lord Frodo

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Scripters dont care about time, or consumibles they set a script to run then go off to bed and take consumables as needed from a box and time waiting for mana to regen means nothing. True Story !
Half correct. They are not going waste their time making stuff that only returns chump change. They do not care about their time as long as their return is worth it.
 

Winker

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Half correct. They are not going waste their time making stuff that only returns chump change. They do not care about their time as long as their return is worth it.
I know one lad who scripts scroll making for his teleport pads. He has a box full of regs and blank scrolls and he does it when he goes to bed. Only reason he doesn't buy the scrolls is he cant find them anywhere and they are a time consuming item to make. I am sure he is not the only one doing it for their teleport pads. Just saying.
 

Lord Frodo

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I know one lad who scripts scroll making for his teleport pads. He has a box full of regs and blank scrolls and he does it when he goes to bed. Only reason he doesn't buy the scrolls is he cant find them anywhere and they are a time consuming item to make. I am sure he is not the only one doing it for their teleport pads. Just saying.
I understand the personal side of that but to say scripters are going to script scrolls to make 1.57M a month, as suggested above, is a totally unreal expectation of what a scripter will do with this. Do you really think a scripter would waste their time do this as a cash cow, that is what is being suggested.
 

Winker

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I understand the personal side of that but to say scripters are going to script scrolls to make 1.57M a month, as suggested above, is a totally unreal expectation of what a scripter will do with this. Do you really think a scripter would waste their time do this as a cash cow, that is what is being suggested.
Sorry i didn't read what was said before i just answered your question. Outside mining and pot making is there a load of cash to be made from Scripting?
 
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