Bringing back Community!

[Derium of ls]

*incoming wall of text*

Disclaimer: please do not hold me to the numbers I put in here, it is only used as a number thrown out. I also do not know much about newer skills, so I may just skip over some of them. sorry!

We spoke in another thread about Bringing people back together in Brit, guild homes and even while mining. I want to see a community form again and people to interact. Also while giving incentives to do so.

I feel by doing this is will also give us an 'Edge' on scripters. If we get a bonus from working around other people and in a populated town, scripters will NOT want to work in that city due to fears of getting caught. So while we can't compete on their level, at least we will have a better chance, and also more fun.


first, repair deeds. A timer should be added to them, so it will have people be more social again. They were a good idea because it prevented scamming. But it only helped kill Brits Blacksmith shop. Blacksmiths were even less needed to hang around and repair peoples goods.


Brit: (Bucs den for reds)

Skills while worked in Brit will have an increase, or a bonus. While there are more players within your skill level around you, the bonus will increase (covered by a quote from Petra Fyde later)

Blacksmithing/carpentry/fletching/cooking ect: when working at the correct shop (The blacksmith for smithing for example) you will get an added bonus to your chance to make an exceptional item, slightly better stats, less of a chance to break an item and so forth.

Scribes: A chance to produce extra scrolls while working at the mage shop.

Alchemy: increased change to create an extra pot while making them, less of a chance to poison yourself while working with DP.

Miners: While smelting at the Smith you will have less of a chance to lose the ore from smelting. And an increased chance to produce a few extra ingots per smelt.

Blacksmith smelting: increased chance to gain extra ingots while smelting.

Lockpicking: increased chance while working on the trapped chests in Western brit (forget the name of the place).

Taming: If you use the Brit stables to Stall your pets, you will get a slight bonus to skill gains while out taming. Buying meat/fruits from brit to feed your pets will increase how long they are happy for. Pets will be more likely to accept a new owner if transfered inside of brit.

Music skills: gaining will be increased for music in the 'music hall', if you spend some time playing music on the harps ect there, you will get a boost to skill gain for a little bit while out training.

Fighting skills: increased chance of gain on dummies.

Magic: increased skill gains in the mage shop.

Fishing: Increased gains along the shores, and increased 'deep sea' gains while fishing in the 'bay of Brit' area.

BODS: While getting them in Brit a small chance to get a better BOD. While filling BODs you have a chance when adding an item to fill one, that two items are added instead of just one. Also a small increase on rewards from BODs.

NPCs: slightly lower cost of goods, and slightly increased amount they start off with.

I think this may bring Brit back to it's glory. And also considering Luna is way too small to add this into it.

An extension to the idea of an imbuing bonus from the Queen's Forge?
It has distinct possibilities I think, an idea worth exploring.

Rewards when training are fine - but we need an incentive to get together when not training.

How's this as a starting point - just as an arcane circle gives a bigger focus depending on how many spellweavers are on the circle, the (let's call it) king's carpenter's bench gives a small % except chance boost governed by however many chars with carpentry within 20% of the same skill are within a tile of it? Same coding, pretty much? Could apply to many skills (alchemists around a cauldron, cooks around an oven, smiths around a forge, tinkers/fletchers around a special table etc etc)

For those skills that have enhancing a % success chance to enhance would be lovely.

Perhaps even better...

Faster skill gain when you work skills with another player. Perhaps the "mentor" gets some form of reward, title, or whatnot, as an incentive, for more interaction with other players. Perhaps some form of "mentor" points system? If factions can work on a points system, then why not mentoring? Although I've always tried to help players with their skills throughout my time in UO, without any reward but the satisfaction I've made a difference and helped someone. Might encourage more people to participate in something mutually rewarding though.

I know it's always been possible to solo-train skills to some extent, but I seem to remember far more players training skills together than happens now.

Hell, I remember times when there would be at least seven or eight "trainees" working skills outside a guild house, with at least as many "mentors" helping them gain.

I like the mentoring idea.
What if in same guild and hunting in a party.. get a power hour. Increased skill gain, increased luck (for better loot while hunting), increased MR, HPR, SR. Have a reason to stay partied. Nowadays, people party up to get into a peerless, then drop it selfishly.

Or if miners mine together, they have a better chance at a bump up a level in ore (or increase in gem yield or ore yield). Why should two miners get penalized and instead of mining together, they are forced to compete for the same ore and therefore have to mine separately? It's pretty hard mining by myself in the lousy 1 hour I might have. Would be nice if I could partner up and get some mutual benefit. I want my partner to be in same screen too... not a screen away. I know there's elemental miner (garg pickaxe) partnering up with a warrior for mutual benefit, but that's stale.

Mentors:

Each account can add people as mentors, while being "linked" skills gains are increased while training together, the more added the better gains will become.

When is the last time you ICQd your Guildie and said; "let's train together", normally it's now: "can you make me a golem so I can AFK train in Luna?".

This way we get people out hunting together and helping, almost like the "bone wall". for those who don't know it. A bunch of people were always in Deceit using their characters to form a wall, the undead would funnel into the hallway and everyone would heal the person in the front. Then you would use store bought weapons to train your skills. it was amazing, now that's strangers working together for a common cause. And since it depended on a lot of people being there, normally someone was always in Brit West Bank opening up a gate to it so you could join.



Skill gain outside of Brit:

While working in your home there will be no added bonuses like in Brit, however as Petra Fyde said. If working close to someone else doing the same, then you will get an added bonus.

This way Guild Halls will server a bigger purpose for the Guildies.


I do not wish to "steal their thunder" so I will leave it up to them (Petra Fyde, Evlar, and Hildebrand) if they wish to add more great thoughts


When all said and done, In my opinion I feel it will bring Brit back to life. Help us get a small edge on scripters. Bring back the days where we were social and helped strangers.



I also think this is a great quote, and it shows the Devs do care about it:

<Mode = "Native">
I agree with the idea, although I'm of the opinion we should add things that bring people together, and make sure it's easy for people to get to. Basically revitalizing city centers. If you create a place that makes people want to go there, and add incentives to be there, they will come. I think the social aspect of UO is something that we could be thinking about a little differently. It's an aspect of UO that amazed me when I first came to work on the game 6 years ago (holy crap - time flies!) and it's obviously a major aspect of UO.
I know that getting people to play together has always been a goal, but I don't know that we've necessarily said "Let's just get people together." Not in a sense of creating a quest or Boss monsters that you can't solo (although it always seems that players end up solo-ing a boss designed to not be solo-able) but just approaching the social interactivity a bit differently. I duno, just a thought.
<mode = "Dev">

Cheers,
Grimm-Meister

Grimm was NOT replying to what I said above, to give credit where it is due, it was in reply to this:

Personal opinion only

For the next Expansion, I'd prefer to actually see a contraction. A large proportion of Malas should fall into the void and a good chunk of Tokuno should be swallowed up by rising seas. There's too much land, the population is too spread out.

so there is your wall of text. I feel this would be a great thing for the us. so PLEASE add to it, give your thoughts!

-Derium


p.s. I know I forgot A LOT of things, but I think this is enough to start with

 

[Mairut]

You forgot Thieves... hiding, stealth, snooping, stealing. I know you said you forgot some things.


I'd say make it so that thieves can train in (underground) Buc's Den, but that's just me. And make it a thieves-only area or something.

As far as mentoring goes:
http://www.uoherald.com/guide/guide.php?guideId=260

Veteran players will be able to invite [young] players to become their squires.

Gaining steps in Humility will grant a character some special abilities. Players will be able to access these abilities by clicking the Humility symbol on their own Virtue gump.

• First step: +5 Hit Points, +5 Mana, +5 Stamina
• Second step: +10 Hit Points, +10 Mana, +10 Stamina
• Third step: +20 Hit Points, +20 Mana, +20 Stamina

More people would probably use that though if there were added benefits to that virtue... or most people just aren't aware of it OR it's been turned off for one reason or another.

Otherwise what you suggested sounds AWESOME... I hope it's implemented

ETA: It would be nice if they changed the humility virtue to work with anyone and not just [young] players. And I just checked... unfortunately it looks like it's been turned off... 'that virute is not active yet'...

 

[Lord Chaos]

Somewhat useless suggestions if you don't add some sort of storage they can take with them (apart from beetle), like a crafting box akin to a bank box.

 

[Merion]

I actually like the idea of getting buffs when working in town and/or around others of the same profession.

Only thing I dislike is the fixation on Brit - should work for all cities. Maybe give a bonus for being around others and one for being inside a guard zone.

 

[Evlar]

I'm all for working with ideas that can bring players together (all play styles), rather than drive them apart, as seems to be the case lately.

Although I suggested a three ruleset approach a few days ago - Prodo, Siege/Mugen, Classic - I would have much preferred the game had focused more on interaction than individuality. Sadly, we are where we are.

There are still pockets of great community, that much is true. There are still players who embrace all the facets and styles of play on offer within UO as a "whole". Just seems like there's more focus on individuality.

The hardest thing to pinpoint, is if people want to do their own thing more, or if they are indeed here for the "massively-multiplayer" aspect.

One thing I've never got to grips with, is that I just don't think it should be possible for any template or individual, to be able to solo the toughest of creatures. Is that being possible as serious design flaw on the developer's part, or just that players creatively look at what template variations (skill + items) make it possible to exploit weakness in the game mechanics?

I think it's always important to get the balance right. Not everyone wants to group with other players, every time they log into the game. It's about choice. There should be more incentives and reasons to group and interact though.

Ok, within PvM, there's the champion spawns. Working through the spawns does require more of a team effort to reach and defeat the boss. That's a good thing. When it's possible for, as an example, a sampire template, to pitch up just for the boss, then something's not quite right.

Within PvP, there tends to be some of the best interaction and team-work, if you know where to look for it. Some of the best spawn raiders, are the best because they work as teams and communicate well. That's why it's possible for a small group of organised players to overcome overwhelming odds of not only the spawn, but larger groups of players who might be there.

Combat aside though, when it comes to crafting, I think there really does need to be more interaction encouraged amongst players. Sort of a co-operative effort amongst trades. Some of the best guilds tend to work on a co-operative basis. There's every trade and the crafters/gatherers will often work for the greater good of the guild. If there was some way to do this for the greater good of the wider world, fantastic.

The "community collections" are stale. They're more about what item can be gained, rather than the community contributing towards the betterment of the lands, the fictional game environment. For individuals to gain some of the items, other forum users here have calculated that without scripting or cheating in some way, it would actually take years of gathering to actually get an item.

the community collections could have perhaps been more of a community effort. Something that draws players to work together to turn in items, not just for individual rewards, but something that rewards the gaming environment. Improvements to a town or city. Some form of trigger effect that increases the size of spawns/resources that crafters gather from, animals, trees, mountains and such. More NPC vendors, offering lower or higher prices based on the "support" they recieve from the "community" of players.

Anyhow, I think everyone gets the idea of where I'm coming from. More reasons to work together. I'll finish with a warning though...

...anyone who feels that playing individually in an MMO is what the game is about, thus responds as such in this thread, will recieve YouTube links for the "Ebony & Ivory" song to their PM box...

You have been warned

 

[Derium of ls]

You forgot Thieves... hiding, stealth, snooping, stealing. I know you said you forgot some things.

I'm not sure how those could be worked in off the top of my head. any ideas? Because of course I'd like to include everyone and every skill!

Somewhat useless suggestions if you don't add some sort of storage they can take with them (apart from beetle), like a crafting box akin to a bank box.

hrrm, I agree. Now to figure out the balance so scripters are not abusing that. Like for mining you and other people you go mining with could summon up "bags of holding". the more miners who are there to help the longer the bag will last (timer) and the more stones it will carry and not add onto your weight? And of course the bag will only hold raw ore.

So a scripter would have to always stop the script, go into town and get a new bag so often that it would defeat the purpose of scripting? Maybe make the bag last only long enough to do a few mining runs.

I actually like the idea of getting buffs when working in town and/or around others of the same profession.

Only thing I dislike is the fixation on Brit - should work for all cities. Maybe give a bonus for being around others and one for being inside a guard zone.

I picked Brit because of the past of course, and also because players are so thinly spread already. Maybe start out with Brit only and if it works well, stat adding in all the cities.

 

[Storm]

Hmm I like most of these idea's very intriguing! Not to sure i would agree with the droping of land masses though !
I think the land masses are ok! WE dont need more but putting the ones we have to better use would be better to me! maybe open some areas up to spread the housing out a little more (there are spots so crowded that its very laggy)!
maybe add more critters to certain areas?

I do miss the days though sitting at the brit forge doing repairs and taking orders !!!

great ideas though!

 

[Jandruz]

I agree, there are some great ideas in here. The only way we are going to get the player base back together is to offer an incentive. It seems to have worked with spellweaving. People are always trying to get lvl 6s at the Brit Bank.

I wonder...since UO is an item based game these days, if the devs could create some items that only parties of blacksmiths, or tailors, or what-have-you can make. So, say someone wants a sword of awesomeness. Maybe it takes a party of 3 120 blacksmiths to make it. The purchaser pays the party and the gold is split equally. That might take a fair amount of programing, but it would encourage working together to get top end gear.

I'd also like to see an extra modifer for activities in Fel, although that would detract from bringing more people together.

There are so many things the Devs could do, and Derium has come up some good thoughts (And he doesn't get paid to do this). Now...will the Devs (who are paid to do this) listen?

 

[MalagAste]

I still think that they should remove the repair deeds all together....

Create "Boxes" that are somewhat similar to a Vendor contract..

Person wanting something repaired, Imbued or Enhanced places an Item in the box... The box asks them what they want done..... They chose say.... "Enhance".... Then it asks who they want to "hire" they target a Player Character who they want to do the job.... then the Crafter gets a gump.... "So and so wishes to hire you to enhance X item do you accept?".... they chose yes or no.... then a price is haggled.... and then the crafter either agrees or disagrees..... if they agree they then enhance the item "in the box".... and both the crafter and the owner get the message of failure or success...

These boxes would be at all the craft locations..... tinkerers, blacksmiths, tailors, bowyers, and even at the Queens Forge and the City Forge....

As well these special "Boxes" would be craftable.... and people can put them in their homes.... where they can operate a shop out of their home....


And I would also like to see being able to "sell" house designs... Taking your house designing something saving it to deed form and selling it...

I'd like to be able to be "hired" as a designer..... and be able to design someones home..... without having to take possession....


I'd like to see more things than just the neat banners given to communites... especially ones that do things for the public.. and hold events... I think the EM program might be good in this respect helping folk hold events and I'm not just talking auctions.... but fairs... and balls... tournaments... and such

 

[Petra Fyde]

I was too sleepy to expand on my idea last night. This is how I'd tweak it:

I'd try to make/find areas in towns where people can come together, a market area, large hall etc and fix it up so that several trades can work in proximity. So that you may be making musical instruments or furniture with a carpentry group, but close enough to a smithing group to chat with them etc.

If enough trades were in an area people would seek them there to make things for them rather than hunt for vendors. Conversations going something like this:

shopper - Cook
Q. Can you make me 50 enchanted apples?
A a) Sure, give me 10 minutes.
A b) Sorry, I don't have the resources with me, but you'll find some on my vendor. Here's a rune.
​

I don't see a need for storage space - people spend hours in Heartwood without the need for that.

I'll come back with ideas for other skills later.

oh - my thinking process: If we aim to develop and adapt existing ideas, like using the arcane circle coding for group crafting bonuses, we are more likely to find that the team can justify the time and resources to put it in. Whereas a totally new concept requiring new coding and testing of that coding might be more difficult to achieve.

 

[Derium of ls]

oh - my thinking process: If we aim to develop and adapt existing ideas, like using the arcane circle coding for group crafting bonuses, we are more likely to find that the team can justify the time and resources to put it in. Whereas a totally new concept requiring new coding and testing of that coding might be more difficult to achieve.

that's what I was thinking, but I also do not know what is an easy thing to do, compared to hard.

Also, if they just added the bonuses alone in Brit, I could only see that helping the game, not harming it.

When it comes to making a community, getting an edge on scripters (to a degree) and better skill gains. Seems like those can all be pretty much done in one go at it. I could be wrong, but I hope not

 

[Connor_Graham]

Not in a sense of creating a quest or Boss monsters that you can't solo (although it always seems that players end up solo-ing a boss designed to not be solo-able)

Aww Devs........are we giving you guys a headache?

 

[G.v.P]

Well, the idea of skill boosts, it isn't going to make a community. Look at New Haven. Look at Ter Mur's Soul Forges. There aren't a great deal of people at either area. Most people who would use skill boosts are power gamers, and most people who power game like to train alone, then leave. If it requires multiple characters, most power gamers are just going to use their other accounts to get the job done faster.

The alchemy idea for a reduced chance of being poisoned wouldn't matter for the alchemist past 80 skill.

Buying meat/fruits from brit to feed your pets will increase how long they are happy for. Pets will be more likely to accept a new owner if transfered inside of brit.

Loyalty really doesn't decay that fast unless you fail a command, so the loyalty boost wouldn't really be noticeable. Also, it isn't a good idea for transfer to be tinkered with because failure of a transfer is due to a lack of skill, and if you bypass that, the tamer probably wouldn't be able to control the pet anyway.

NPCs: slightly lower cost of goods, and slightly increased amount they start off with.

Since all new characters start in New Haven, it would take players who would benefit from lower costs too long to travel to Brit in order to reap the rewards. Otherwise, this change would only help stock market watchers looking for the lowest coin.

Britain is huge. I'll assume the city of Ter Mur is smaller, but maybe it is larger, not sure, but with Ter Mur's city out of the picture, Brit is surely the largest. Some other towns don't have one shop where as Brit has three.

To make a community, you need habitual reasons for people to flock to Brit. Luna is crowded because the bank is very close to a Moongate and the city was built so players could build vendor malls all around a central road around the bank. Probably 80% of the game's commerce takes place in Luna, while the rest comes from Zento and other places.

The simple idea to make Britain a hot spot again is for Mythic to sell single vendor spots near Britain bank, in designated areas per shard. Perhaps one spot eligible per an account, with a fixed gold sink per week cost of upkeep. If there are vendors right by Brit bank, it will draw people to them, and the bank. Then, once the bank is improved upon, Mythic could set their sights on the forge just north.

For the forge, and any enhancements to work, players would need to be able to repair, enhance, and/or imbue items in a trade window. In order to do all of these things, changes would have to be made to allow those actions. There should also be warning gumps for the other party to accept, in the case of an enhance attempt, that way no one is surprised when their item breaks.

With vendor contracts near Brit, and the forge player friendly again, I think Brit might have some habitual returns.

 

[G.v.P]

One thing that I forgot to mention, and I'm sure someone has said it in one of these threads by now, is runebooks. Back then, there weren't any. Now that players can cart around 400 or more of their favorite spots (I guess a max of 2,000 runes at any given time, lol), people will just mark a rune if it takes more than two screens to get to the next spot. That's a huge inconvenience when it comes to trying to make Brit have community while giving only certain spots boosts, because it'll just end up being people recalling back and forth to all the spots.

 

[Uthar Pendragon]

With the rebuilding of Magincia coming up, I would think that this would be a good area to test/implement a little of this and see how it can function. Implementing it as a means to rebuild there. Crafters could gain better while crafting things that are needed to rebuild. although this would require a donation system. The library quests could be adapted I think easialy enough. Or even a heartwood type quest system that gives a different set of rewards. Crafter specific sots, plus skill tools (like ancient smithy hammer-but for all crafter skills) again implementing the areas like mentioned above for specific skills. Once Magincia is rebuilt then these areas can be moved from there to britain specific spots.

Heck they could even adapt the Humility virtue as a means of grouping. A person with higher skill could invoke the Humility gump and target another player. I have a few ideas on how to do this but it would be a bit harder to expand it beyond the crafter classes. But this would need to have some sort of interaction to avoid parking of high leval crafters in the area just to give the bonus and not do anything.

 

[Merion]

Heck they could even adapt the Humility virtue as a means of grouping.

Great idea!

that one of the core elements of Ultima ended up being a half-finished system is one of the saddest things in UO

 

[Evlar]

Fix the virtue gumps. Period. They've never worked fully since they were implemented.

As Petra has already mentioned, that was the intention of the Humility virtue. I can't remember when or if it has worked though. Perhaps now's the time it did?

 

[Hildebrand]

I don't know if we're beating a dead horse here with the whole thing. We can't "force" community. Community comes from something else. We can't expect the UO devs to come up with the perfect solution. If they had a solution, it would've been done already.
For most, the pull to play solo is more common than the pull to play 100% socially. Plus, there are different degrees to community. That being said, the devs can't abandon the many that want to play by themselves nor ignore what UO's core is.. community.

I challenge the Devs to program for BOTH soloists and groups. Keep BOTH in mind. It's hard to explain what's in my head.
Example:
1)Tailor Repair deeds were partly created to help the soloists.
Pros: Eliminate scams. Help out players that play off hours when no one is around. Same chance to "lose durability" as a player fixed item.
Cons: No thought as to the "group" players. This devastated the smiths that used to hang out helping newbies and old alike. Loss of community.
Balance: WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ADDED AS WELL. Crafter Repair Gump. Would also eliminate scams if done right. Would continue to allow the community interaction. To encourage this transaction.... you get a boost to the durability or boost to a chance not to lose durability or some other benefit.


I'm all for encouraging the player to go for the group option rather than the "oh crap, i need a repair super duper fast so let me go to Luna and buy a repair deed for 150gp ea so I can go back to soloing (insert name)". Or the cross-sharder that has no crafter. Not that there's anything wrong with the soloist. I just want XTRA reward for the person that takes the time to invest in the community. Hence.. BALANCE.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

irst, repair deeds. A timer should be added to them, so it will have people be more social again. They were a good idea because it prevented scamming. But it only helped kill Brits Blacksmith shop. Blacksmiths were even less needed to hang around and repair peoples goods.

The death of player to player smithing was the final nail in the coffin for my account, sadly I don't think it's possible to create community. The community that UO had before was largely due to necessity, back then crafting skills were hard to GM and a lot of people focused more on the adventuring aspects then the crafting.

So basically there were fewer crafters but most of them had good reputations with the player base in brit, and the adventurers would come in from their dungeon runs either needing repairs or new armor and the miners would come back from the mines to sell their latest iron haul to the smithy.

Over time some of the things that happened were skill gain was made easier, a lot more people were coming into the game, and accounts were being sold to these newer players so that it cuts out the need to skill up a crafter, if you can buy a new account loaded with 5 7 xgm characters and a bunch of gold for a relatively fair price of course you will pounce on it to get a one up on other players.

Now everyone can do everything by themselves all the time so community in the trade sense has become obsolete, sure people will say their vendors make them money and I don't doubt it, but for me at least it was never about the moeny, it was about knowing my customers and interacting with them and haggling prices back and forth.

Because a game has different aspects that make it fun, and for me the social aspect is really important, I never bothered with more than one vendor because it felt to robotic for me. I already had all the gold I could want, I had a tower on Ice Island Atlantic, millions of gold, lots of rares, a full suit of phoenix armor from clean up britania which consisted of me cleaning my tower closet out etc.

I don't see how community in the old sense could be restored, they were great times the best I ever had playing any game but most things once lived cannot be relived, nothing short of a complete reset back to UOs beginnings could jump start such a community but that of course comes with it's own flaws to numerous to get into and out of the scope of this thread.

 

[Evlar]

You know, I couldn't help but see the irony here.

We're talking about community interaction between player traders and crafters in an online game.

The irony is that it mirrors the real world to some extent.

Local stores, small business, have fallen foul over the years. First to out of town malls and superstores (Luna?), then to online shopping via the internet (vendors and repair deeds?), where little to no personal interaction is required.

The sadness in that, is do we really want such mirrored similarities to be part of our online "fantasy" world?

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

The sadness in that, is do we really want such mirrored similarities to be part of our online "fantasy" world?

I don't and actually just looking back on it all, I operated my smith at a loss where gold was concerned. I cannot count how many ring mail suits I made for new warrior characters and gave away for free, and most smiths will recall that repairs being free were the standard at least on Atlantic.

I didn't miss the money, it paled in comparison to seeing how happy a new player was to have a very basic set of armor and weapon/shield. Of course you had to play back then to really appreciate how hard it was starting out with your newbie clothing a practice weapon a dagger and a few small items related to your trade and 100 gp.

 

[BajaElladan]

Hail Folks,

Community is complicated. I do NOT believe it can or should be "forced." However, it may and SHOULD be encouraged, perhaps incentivized, though I personally hope that is resisted or very carefully thought out and considered.

Clearly, our society and community was much different in its infancy and when our Shard populations were much larger. I conclude that ONE of many factors that led to reduced community and interaction was the reduction in population. Where long ago one could find someone to craft or repair an item almost 24/7 that is no longer the case. As it became difficult to find someone to aid a character, Players began adding and altering existing characters so the service they needed could always be performed by one of the Players other characters.

What continues to amaze me, is speaking with different members of the same Guild, and learning these Guild members have never met and know virtually nothing about each other. Clearly something is happening. Society & community is declining & degrading in the real world and appears to be carrying over into our virtual world.

I am convinced we should, on every Shard, be finding ways and times to bring our Players and Characters together to meet one another. Human nature either does not change, or changes very slowly. Folks interact much more with other folks they know well. Less so with or among "strangers."

Also, as has already surfaced in this Thread, some of us have great fondness and/or attraction for specific Towns or Cities. While some wish to see Britain "restored" to its vibrant community of its heyday, others feel the same about Trinsic, Skara, Jhelom, Magincia, Cove, well you see my point. Still others would have this same goal for "Player Run Towns."

I agree we must begin somewhere. And while all journeys begin with a step, we may wish to encourage a direction but let the folks choose their Town or City of choice(s).

A smaller, but no less important segment of our Community, have no houses. They live from Bank Boxes upon every or a great many of our Shards. Queen Mum is but one such Character that I mention solely by example.

Let us continue our discussion. Let us closely and carefully consider and weigh all suggestions. Let us do all possible to avoid the downside of some unintentional consequences.

And let us bring friends from each shard to read and add to this Topic. And then let each of us take the best from this Topic back to our Shard Communities.

Elladan of Baja

 

[Coldren]

For most, the pull to play solo is more common than the pull to play 100% socially. .

Which is kind of the point..

Since everything is already oriented to the solo player, why would you bother making friends and forming a community?

This is true in every MMO, not just UO.

The problem is that now, you need a REASON for a community to WANT to form. It used to be this was done out of necessity. UO, DAoC - Both games almost forced you to interact with others in some way for your very survival or progression, or merely to participate.

UO and other MMO's now cater to solo players, which is what most of the current MMO player base consists of. If in any way you force community on a [**Existing**] playerbase, especially when aspects between soloists and other subgroups strongly butt heads, no one is going to tolerate it. Just look at the world in which we live - Everyone is so interconnected, Facebook, IM, etc.. There is no need to socialize with those who don't share you're exact same view points, if you don't want to.

Just look what happen with the Ricardo books. Two communities (Gatherers and PvP'ers) were forced together long enough to click a book, and to hear some of the complaints, you would have thought the devs personally whacked everyone's grandmother with a baseball bat. It wasn't even a forced interaction - The game in no way required you to get that book. It was completely optional. But once again, some thought the cure to cancer they were seeking in those books was being unfavorably guarded.

I don't know how the MMO community at large grew this way. Self-entitlement, I suppose you could assume. Everyone seems to expect every game they play that's online to cater to their personal sense of difficulty. This wasn't always the case, whether by a lack of choice or by design, but it's the way it is now.

Existing is highlighted because if a game is formed with clear intentions in regards to it's difficulty and intended audience, it tends to have less of such issues - Those who come in now to games like Darkfall with the express intent of changing the whole game to bend to their view of what it should be (If it's in direct opposition to it's stated intent) are quickly shunned by the majority. Although even these days, Darkfall is making some concessions to it's "Hardcore" playstyle in order to attract more customers.

All comes down to money - How and who you market to. Lose your focus, and as you're trying to please everybody, you'll please no one.

 

[phantus]

I love that show. Joe McHale is awesome!

 

[G.v.P]

You know, I couldn't help but see the irony here.

We're talking about community interaction between player traders and crafters in an online game.

The irony is that it mirrors the real world to some extent.

Local stores, small business, have fallen foul over the years. First to out of town malls and superstores (Luna?), then to online shopping via the internet (vendors and repair deeds?), where little to no personal interaction is required.

The sadness in that, is do we really want such mirrored similarities to be part of our online "fantasy" world?

Hehe interesting commentary. I'd talk about how the loss of LB has pretty much tanked our "government," but I don't want to derail, hehe.

I guess it's just a matter of convenience, and also, what is allowed. For example, to build a mega mall, you have to destroy the local environment and the moms and pops. But if you have the money, you can persuade or buy-out small business and sympathizers, clean up the residue.

In the case of UO, and Luna, well, people at Origin/Mythic/Ea decided to make Luna a new place for "community," and it worked, except, it killed most of the rest of the towns. It's not the same community as before, but hell, isn't it a lot more convenient?

 

[BajaElladan]

Hail Folks,

For now I will focus my comments on improving Community on a Shard and leave the Felucca/Trammel issue for later.

As I said earlier, I do believe "solo" Players are becoming a larger percentage of our population. However, I am convinced that such Players would welcome more group play if they got to know more Characters, as many solo Players appear not to have established contacts or in game relationships. Why this is so, why "solo" Players fail to broaden their in game friendships, may not be well known.

While I am not good at creating UO Stratics Polls, perhaps someone could create a Poll directed mainly at those who self identify both as current Players and "solo" Players. Let us see if we may identify reasons for the growth of solo Players and also identify if those self identified Players are open to wider socialization and Player cooperation.

While I hope EA also is studying this, both Globally and shard by shard and facet by facet, perhaps we here can provide some valuable input and feedback.

Is someone willing to create such a Poll or Polls?

I think this Thread has great potential and hope all reading it and contributing to it will invite their in game friends to join us here.

Elladan of Baja

 

[Percivalgoh]

One of the problems with community is that online it is easy to pretend to be someone other than that which you are so social interaction is less rewarding than in real life. Of course many here don't have much of a real life so at least for them that doesn't matter. rolleyes: I don't know how to overcome this factor. I suppose the rules of this game eliminate those who can't deal with them and what we have is what is selected for by the game mechanics. Change the rules and you change the type of player who is willing to play.

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Aww Devs........are we giving you guys a headache?

Hahaha, no. But it's regularly one of the cool/frustrating things about developing for MMO's. It doesn't matter how much QA you put behind something, you get thousands of players using it, they will AWAYS find a way to use something in a way you didn't intend for them to use it as.


-Gimms

 

[G.v.P]

It doesn't matter how much QA you put behind something, you get thousands of players using it, they will AWAYS find a way to use something in a way you didn't intend for them to use it as.

Hey ... speaking of which, can you PM me how to use a fishing rod to snag the Moiety on Chessie?

 

[Basara]

Hahaha, no. But it's regularly one of the cool/frustrating things about developing for MMO's. It doesn't matter how much QA you put behind something, you get thousands of players using it, they will AWAYS find a way to use something in a way you didn't intend for them to use it as.


-Gimms

I don't know if he was citing a real or fictional case, but the SF writer Heinlein once cited a behavioral experiment where scientists put an ape in an enclosure, with only 4 possible ways out, wanting to test the ape's reasoning ability, in figuring out which way to get out. The ape escaped a fifth way. I've heard ancedotal evidence of similar things occurring in conversations, so there seems to be some 60+ year old basis for the story.

The story is often given as an example of why it's impossible to cover every contingency, for when you think you have, karma will bite you.

 

[Percivalgoh]

I don't know if he was citing a real or fictional case, but the SF writer Heinlein once cited a behavioral experiment where scientists put an ape in an enclosure, with only 4 possible ways out, wanting to test the ape's reasoning ability, in figuring out which way to get out. The ape escaped a fifth way. I've heard ancedotal evidence of similar things occurring in conversations, so there seems to be some 60+ year old basis for the story.

The story is often given as an example of why it's impossible to cover every contingency, for when you think you have, karma will bite you.

There was an experiment that I recall where they put chimps in an enclosure with a bunch of bananas hanging high out their reach. They left boxes which could be piled up and a broom that they could use to whack them down with but the chimps stood the broom up and quickly climbed up the broom to grab the bananas instead.

 

[chuckoatl]

I play this game at goofy hours.... You cant make certain aspects of the game unobtainable just because I am a night owl and no one else is on. I remember the days of losing my armor to scammers that were "fixxing it" I didnt like it then, wouldn't like it now.

 

[lucitus]

Hahaha, no. But it's regularly one of the cool/frustrating things about developing for MMO's. It doesn't matter how much QA you put behind something, you get thousands of players using it, they will AWAYS find a way to use something in a way you didn't intend for them to use it as.


-Gimms

Because of this you have to work with the community. In Beta i found much expirenced players, any player knows a few blackwholes, i also knew a few and this knowlegde is much worth!

I have tested many MMOS, but UO has the best community i have seen, UO is such a free mmo but nearly everybody cares about the future of the game and this is special and unique.

But i also must say the Dev Team now is also unique, i see a producer really carying about the game and also our Grimmy is doing that.

Thank you!

 

[Derium of ls]

Been talking these ideas over with people still, seems some people think skill gain is not enough of an incentive to resurrect Brit. What else could be done? But not too much to make it 'mandatory' that you go there?

 

[Hildebrand]

On Atlantic, at the west bank, they added an outgoing moongate and a hitching post where you can stable pets. Yet it still remains pretty quiet. Except if there are spellweavers hanging around for a focus gem.

Should we even try to make Britain busy again?

What if there were daily rotating Gypsy caravans that stopped at random banks. They could offer some advantage if you went to them. One day it's Papua, one day it's Delucia, etc. When they're in town, the shops have increased resources because gypsies, unloaded their wares. Mage shops get an automatic 999 reagents, jewlers get 999 in gems, etc. The day Britain gets the gypsies, we have many shops flooded with 999 resources. The day Cove gets them, well, not much going on there.
Just ideas.

 

[Coppelia]

To bring back community, here's the solution : kill the other games, remove real life activities (including jobs).

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

To bring back community, here's the solution : kill the other games, remove real life activities (including jobs).

Got it! Good idea!

<googles Blizzard>

 

[TheGrimmOmen]

Because of this you have to work with the community. In Beta i found much expirenced players, any player knows a few blackwholes, i also knew a few and this knowlegde is much worth!

I have tested many MMOS, but UO has the best community i have seen, UO is such a free mmo but nearly everybody cares about the future of the game and this is special and unique.

But i also must say the Dev Team now is also unique, i see a producer really carying about the game and also our Grimmy is doing that.

Thank you!

I have to agree, and thanks for the nice words!

-Grimm

 

[BajaElladan]

Hail Folks,

I have a question targeted to Players who play on several Shards; do you see any clear difference in the "community" on Shards that have some form of "Player Council" versus Shards with no such "organizing or governing" group? Any Developers, GMs or EMs also please comment (you need not self identify your role).

I play only on one Shard, Baja, where no such group currently exists and I would really appreciate input from those who have experienced the affect of such groups, if any, on Shards that have them.

Elladan of Baja

 

[Derium of ls]

I'm on three shards right now, LS and ATL I'm the most active on. And what I've seen is that on ATL there is a lot more people of course. But on LS since it's a dwindling community it seems that people stick together more, almost as if a support system. So while on ATL I run into more single players, but on LS it's more small groups of people.


But to the people on this thread, what would bring you to a certain town to hang out? What incentives (other than "everyone else is there") to get you to go there?

 

[Evlar]

Blacksmiths as Brit Forge

 

[kelmo]

Blacksmiths as Brit Forge

Those days are gone?

 

[Evlar]

Those days are gone?

I should set up a character on Siege and we'll have a protest match!

 

[Derium of ls]

when people ask me where to meet, I'm going to ONLY meet them at Brit West Bank

 

[Derium of ls]

sorry for the bump, just seeing if anyone else can give their input on what would get them back to Brit, or any town

 

[Evlar]

Short of a lap-dancing joint at Brit Castle, I'm out of ideas at the moment...

 

[Derium of ls]

Short of a lap-dancing joint at Brit Castle, I'm out of ideas at the moment...

haha, thanks anyways!

 

[Evlar]

You might laugh, but I've organised pub/tavern crawls in game, where players don't recall or gate between towns. They have to go from pub to pub in each town on foot, or by boat where required.

Some of the players, never even knew that some of the taverns even existed.

 

[Coppelia]

The Mended Drum?

 

[Evlar]

Nope, it's broken again

The trolls got rowdy and started throwing things about again... mainly dwarves.