Blue Bards peacing and discoing Blue pets, in Fel no less!!

[Widow Maker]

So Wenchkin...sweetie...what you are trying to put forth is that discordance is not a direct attack against a target??

Because this is the bottom line here.

It used to be, years ago, that I could discord a player and provoke monsters and summons onto them. That was taken out because of the huge damage it did to any player attacked in that manner, especially discord.

How is this different?

Is there a spell out there that drops 30%+ of a mages spell damage? Drops 30%+ of any dexer weapon? And completely safe to do from a guard zone... against another blue player? Tell me where and what that is because I have been missing those skills for my 12 years of playing and PvPing. As far as I know..if I even try attacking or debuffing someone's summoned cat, in GZ, I get wacked immediately.

So...you tell me...honey...where is your argument here and answer the only question of importance here:

No "buts" or "what ifs". Plain and simple..is it ok and within all other existing and current game parameters to debuff an innocent blue player, pet or summons in GZ if they are not flagged to you.

Answer that one question satisfactorily and this issue goes away. Fail to answer it and all your arguments go away, proving to you that this is an oversight by the DEV team (for YEARS) that should be corrected just as any game bug should be.

I am ever so interested in your answer here. Here is your chance to convince everyone else that they are wrong and you are right. Answer that one question, to all our satisfaction. The floor is yours.

 

[Wenchkin]

The only reason I ever sit in the GZ is because i'm out numbered. Simple as that. Even on a dexer or a mage, still out numbered, even when I try to get them 1v1 they still run around waiting for their buddies to heal at the last second or to gank.

Ganks happen. I don't think they justify tamers hiding in the guardzone. If you can't take the heat, you go right back through the gate. Yew is much more convenient than other areas in that respect. Of course your going to find players call in buddies, what do you expect? You're at a PvP hotspot, surrounded by the houses by local cowards, so expecting a 1v1 is at best overly optomistic And how can you get a 1v1 when you're controlling a pet?

[/quote]The only pet that is still somewhat useful while under discord is a trained Greater Dragon. Which I don't use. I prefer beetle/mare combo, and even when fully trained, under discord they're just about as good as freshly tamed ones.[/quote]
I think it depends what you consider useful. A skilled PvPer works with what they have and makes the most of it. I've had to fight with fresh pets or defend myself when I only had my mare with me (normal, not dread) and it wasn't a big deal. It wasn't ideal for me on those occasions, but I sure as heck wouldn't give up if someone disco'd one of my pets. Or call them useless For one thing, the bard can still be eaten by pet 2 and his disco'd buddy before the second pet gets disco'd too

I agree that fire breath needs to be toned down in PvP, but so does discording a blue pet and staying blue.

Let's just do it in the right order. That's all I'm saying. Do it properly and not just favour tamers yet again by nuking someone else. If you want nerfs handed to bards, you need to take yours first. Hardly like we hear any non tamers whining about bards in Fel, is it?

What people fail to realize is that discord acts as a curse/debuff similiar to the spell curse, which WILL flag you. Now all unbalanced pet damage aside, you've got to admit it's unfair that someone can debuff a blue pet, and have no consequence.

It's not a case of failing to realise what disco does. Disco isn't rocket science As I've said many times already, tamers simply need fixed before we look at the bards. You might not give a rat's arse about bards, but those of us who play a bard or two would like to think that nerfs we receive are fair and well considered. Not another knee jerk nerf of a whole class because a few PvP tamers got their panties in a mess. You've met your match, and until you're balanced, a little humble pie might be a better response. Because quite honestly it's pretty cheeky to say "fix bards" when you're far far more deserving of a nerf.

Wenchy

 

[Laina]

All you have to do is walk your dragon 10 tiles away and the disco will wear off. I don't understand why an entire skill set needs to be re-worked because of problems at one spot (yew gate) in the game. Blue bards in guard zones right? Instead of "nerfing" templates why don't we just ask for the guard zone to be removed on the fel side? It seems to be a constant source of problems.

 

[Turdnugget]

And how can you get a 1v1 when you're controlling a pet?

I was referring to 1v1's when on a mage/dexer. No matter what, the person I attack always seems to sit outside the GZ so they can get healed/cured or get help to gank.

I'd be fine with firebreath getting nerfed first, as long as they PROMISE and come through with that PROMISE that blue discording stops and/or flags that person.

All you have to do is walk your dragon 10 tiles away and the disco will wear off.

Right... and go where? Most bards will follow you around and keep your pet disco'd. What if i'm not even attacking anyone, but sitting there watching with my pets and someone decides they want to keep them discorded? Maybe I should tell them to stop, and if they don't, i'll page on them for harrassment.

 

[red sky]

Yet another disco/peace thread that people FAIL to see that Discord is not just a passive skill...


Look at what discord does to pets.

LOL, you mean it makes super dragons actually defeatable in PvP right? I think we have an answer to the big complaint of super dragons here. You guys are catching on finally.

 

[red sky]

All you have to do is walk your dragon 10 tiles away and the disco will wear off. I don't understand why an entire skill set needs to be re-worked because of problems at one spot (yew gate) in the game. Blue bards in guard zones right? Instead of "nerfing" templates why don't we just ask for the guard zone to be removed on the fel side? It seems to be a constant source of problems.

Yeah, I mean how hard can it be to take your pet away from the guardzone or where ever this is occuring and take care of that pesky discord using turd in the first place? I mean really that person must have at least GM discord and music (prob higher considering we are discording trained super dragons here) which probably means they have a "slight" disadvantage in their template when it comes to PVP. I mean it's not like they can discord players or anything right? (I know it's a waste to argue about this, there are always going to be whiners about something but at least I'm showing I care LOL)

 

[ColterDC]

The Bard, sitting in GZ discoing and direct peacing your pet has no risk at all. They are not there to fight. The tamer, while sitting in GZ with 20 enemies waiting outside the gate area. The tamer flags on a red/grey. They get em..maybe they don't (more often don't). That player is then under attack from anyone who they aggroed (or who aggroed to their pets) on and stand a good chance of getting killed. That is fine, that is the risk.

If you, the tamer, were sitting in the GZ and sent your pet after a red you would only be flagged to that particular person, not to the supposed 20 other reds sitting there.

Either way, the facts are that you've got 2 blues (tamer and bard) sitting in a GZ, neither of them has any risk. Guess that makes it pretty balanced.

 

[Turdnugget]

True you would only be flagged to that one person... who in turn can run outside the GZ to get healed. The minute you follow them, you get ganked by their 20 buddies.

Now take into consideration you're attacking a red, he/she has buddies sitting outside so following to kill them is outta the question. Now on top of that let's add in a blue discorder. So now it's the tamer vs. the red and the discorder. But the tamer can only kill the red because the bard is blue and the tamer can't do much about that.

 

[thechoppa]

Votes for bards being able to provoke pets on their owner. Then, you can have them flagged for discording/peacing/provoking. If you want to kill bards with the most stupidly overpowered pet ever created in UO, at least let bards do what they do.

Wich makes me think, everytime the nerf stiuck hangs over the tamers head, we hear: taming is a hard skill to raise, it's normal that we get benifits from it. Well here are some news, barding skills, 'cept for music, are as hard to raise, normal they get benefits from it.

 

[Wenchkin]

So Wenchkin...sweetie...what you are trying to put forth is that discordance is not a direct attack against a target??

I'm not trying to put that forward at all. I'm trying to ensure that the correct balances are put in place in a logical order, not knee-jerk crap to suit a tiny group of wannabe PvPers. Tamers are not the most important class in Fel.

Because this is the bottom line here.

It used to be, years ago, that I could discord a player and provoke monsters and summons onto them. That was taken out because of the huge damage it did to any player attacked in that manner, especially discord.

How is this different?

You do understand that there's a difference between pets and players, and that we're talking about disco on its own, not provoke? And in this case it's just disco against pets, not players. I'm not saying bards weren't over powered - they were, but as you point out they were changed. I don't deny change isn't necessary here, but I simply don't agree with your assertion that bards should be changed before tamers. This is not something which kills players, it makes pets weaker. That's it. I believe the devs should prioritise the class causing the most trouble, then work down. Not pander to what tamers want at the expense of everyone else. Which is what you guys are asking for.

Is there a spell out there that drops 30%+ of a mages spell damage? Drops 30%+ of any dexer weapon? And completely safe to do from a guard zone... against another blue player? Tell me where and what that is because I have been missing those skills for my 12 years of playing and PvPing. As far as I know..if I even try attacking or debuffing someone's summoned cat, in GZ, I get wacked immediately.

How many times must I say the same things before you get it? I'm talking about priorities and fixing things in the right order. I'll still be able to disco pets if I flag, so it won't concern me. I want to ensure that there is no adverse effect on bards outwith PvP, but the bottom line is I'm arguing as I stated above - it's about priorities.

No "buts" or "what ifs". Plain and simple..is it ok and within all other existing and current game parameters to debuff an innocent blue player, pet or summons in GZ if they are not flagged to you.

Do I need to teach you reading comprehension? Read what I've said above and see if you can figure it out for yourself.

Wenchy

 

[Wenchkin]

True you would only be flagged to that one person... who in turn can run outside the GZ to get healed. The minute you follow them, you get ganked by their 20 buddies.

Now take into consideration you're attacking a red, he/she has buddies sitting outside so following to kill them is outta the question. Now on top of that let's add in a blue discorder. So now it's the tamer vs. the red and the discorder. But the tamer can only kill the red because the bard is blue and the tamer can't do much about that.

If the bard is waiting just outside guardzone, it doesn't matter if they flag grey when they disco your pets, because clearly you're not going to follow them and attack if they're beside their red friends. You've said as much yourself. So in all honesty, even if bards are changed before tamers get balanced, nothing will change around the guardzone. You might find bards easier to kill around champs, but you'll still be going against a bard and his friends. I can't see that being an easy win for you.

I sometimes wonder if this whole argument centres on the desire to nerf those annoying bards more than anything practical. It certainly sounds like it. If you got your wish tomorrow, I could almost guarantee that you wouldn't be pleased with the results. I would suggest that you'd prefer a fix so that bards couldn't disco pets at all, this is merely the nearest position you can argue and find any support. But it's not enough to prioritise the bard fixes over tamer ones. I think the best solution to your problems is to either move to Tram or use a non tamer for PvP.

Wenchy

 

[Turdnugget]

I would kill the bard if the flagged and his/her friends were around.

Why would I move to Tram or not play my tamer? I'm quite good on my tamer I must say. It's just annoying when someone renders your pet near useless just to **** you off ( I don't use GD for PvP)

If this game actually took skill to play anymore I might want to use something other than an easy all kill template.

 

[Wenchkin]

I would kill the bard if the flagged and his/her friends were around.

Quite a different level of confidence compared to your last post.

Why would I move to Tram or not play my tamer? I'm quite good on my tamer I must say. It's just annoying when someone renders your pet near useless just to **** you off ( I don't use GD for PvP)

When's the last time you heard a player post here that a bard gimplate killed them? Not their pets, their character. Hmm? You have a bit of cheek coming here and claiming someone needs a nerf when tamers are a hot topic here week in, week out. That's the point.

I wouldn't argue against you guys so harshly if it wasn't for that underlying "I'm more important" vibe you give off. You're not the most important class in Fel. There, I said it. You can either adapt to Fel and tamer PvP as the rest of us have, or do something else if it's that annoying. That's my point.

Wenchy

 

[Kellgory]

I would kill the bard if the flagged and his/her friends were around.

Thats assuming that the bard just stands there. Most likely, the moment you say all kill, the bard will hit the area peace macro and back-up and all his/her friends would kill your pets unless you were fast enough to call them back to guardzone. Either case, nothing really changed because your pets are still discorded.

 

[Widow Maker]

Quote:
No "buts" or "what ifs". Plain and simple..is it ok and within all other existing and current game parameters to debuff an innocent blue player, pet or summons in GZ if they are not flagged to you.

"Do I need to teach you reading comprehension? Read what I've said above and see if you can figure it out for yourself. "

You not so adeptly sidestepped a direct question, to which you have not provided a straight answer in any of your responses. This is a direct question only requiring a Yes or No. What is your response?

 

[thechoppa]

There should be no guard zone in fel. If 20 red are waiting there to kill you, you should either go back in the gate or die. And tamers do not need a nerf. But I beleive that it's unfair that bards can't provoke tamed pets. I would love so much to see a tamer get his greater dragon in his face!!!!

BTW, I have two fully grown tamers, one on baja, the other on atlantic. But they stay in the facet they belong: Trammel.

 

[Wenchkin]

Quote:
No "buts" or "what ifs". Plain and simple..is it ok and within all other existing and current game parameters to debuff an innocent blue player, pet or summons in GZ if they are not flagged to you.

"Do I need to teach you reading comprehension? Read what I've said above and see if you can figure it out for yourself. "

You not so adeptly sidestepped a direct question, to which you have not provided a straight answer in any of your responses. This is a direct question only requiring a Yes or No. What is your response?

Sidestepped? LMAO. Nah, the answer to your question is clearly in my posts in this thread as I indicated. How many times do I need to say that I don't have a problem with bards being changed? It's the prioritising I have a problem with. There are other things too, but the bottom line is that tamers must be changed first, and only then change bards. That doesn't translate as "I don't think bards should flag at all" it means "it should be done in the correct order and bards balanced fairly". Until tamers are balanced, the bards are a useful template in fighting them.

Wenchy

 

[Splup]

Geezh, what is there to argue about here?

You do offensive move against someone, you flag him. Discordance is definitly offensive move, just as much as curse spell.

I get the whine about tamers, yep they are out of balance. But fixing it by letting bards disco in GZ without flagging isn't the way to fix this. They need to fix the pets...

I also think provocation should be brought back to PvP, but it should flag just like disco should.

 

[Wenchkin]

Geezh, what is there to argue about here?

You do offensive move against someone, you flag him. Discordance is definitly offensive move, just as much as curse spell.

I get the whine about tamers, yep they are out of balance. But fixing it by letting bards disco in GZ without flagging isn't the way to fix this. They need to fix the pets...

I also think provocation should be brought back to PvP, but it should flag just like disco should.

It's just down to priorities, something that folks scream blue murder about when we get something minor changed. In this case, the most problematic class is complaining about a class who can only harm their bloomin' pets

If the tamers got their way on this one, can you imagine the reaction of the PvP and non-taming community? "Oh tamers get what they want - again!" would be the nicest post you'd see. Quite rightly so. Tamers have been spoilt long enough IMO, and I have 8 of them so I think I'm qualified to say that. Even if the fixes came out together it would be acceptable, but let's not pander to wannabe PvPer tamers yet again.

Wenchy

 

[Turdnugget]

I like how you call PvP tamers wanabe PvPers.

I think if this game wasn't so item based with the easy button on, with all the cheats/scripts that go on maybe i'd play a character that actually takes skill to play.

I use my tamer mostly for doing champ spawns. When we get raided, they die. Simple as that. Why should I play a different character to spawn if I can use my tamer much more effectively.

Current UO has given me a bad taste as far as PvP goes. It's so tainted with scripters/cheat engine users that it's not fun to use anything besides a dismount tamer, unless I know the person doesn't use those programs. It's kinda pointless to try to fight someone on a dexer, or a mage, or a crafter if the person i'm fighting can move twice as fast as I and magically jump 3-4 tiles at a time. You see, using a dismount tamer is a lot easier to kill someone who can magically be off the screen in a split second. It puts the cheater on a level playing field, actually giving someone a chance to kill them.

Geezh, what is there to argue about here?

You do offensive move against someone, you flag him. Discordance is definitly offensive move, just as much as curse spell.

I get the whine about tamers, yep they are out of balance. But fixing it by letting bards disco in GZ without flagging isn't the way to fix this. They need to fix the pets...

Exactly. It's offensive against a blue, it should flag. This is not the way to counter tamers in PvP. Tamers have been in game since pretty much the beginning. They're just becoming more prevalent in PvP now due to the # of people spawning and those that can't 'keep up' with the cheaters, so they use an easier method to bring them down.

I don't see how provoke could/should be put into effect. When you think about it, how would a tamed pet, well trained, turn on it's master? Take a trained doberman pinscher for example, if it's been with it's owner for say 5 years...what do you think the chances of a complete stranger are to have that dog attack it's owner because the owner was doing something bad?

I don't care if they tone down pet damage in PvP. That's fine, and needs to be done. Firebreath is insane. But allowing an offensive spell/skill should NOT be allowed without being propery flagged.

Even if this wasn't related to PvP, how would you feel if you were just sitting there and someone kept discording your pets over and over and over and over, just to **** you off? It's happend. If I can page someone for harrassment for that, I would be fine with it.

 

[Green Meanie]

You cant use the Its a way to keep up with the cheaters argument.
Why? There are just as many pvp tamers that cheat non stop. Running the same scripts and speeders

For thoughs that would say it only happens at yew gate YOUR wrong it happens in dungens too. and i cant kill the player doing it without taking a murder count. Many times ive had my pet discoed in despise and killed

Disco should flag 100%. The only argument i can see as justifyed is fix pets in pvp first.

I also agree bards should be in pvp able to disco and provoke onto players just treat the player as if there were max barding difficulty and failed attempts still flag

 

[Vyal]

No no no no no you know what the worst is?
When I played those stupid EA shards. I could sit at yew gate with my tamer archer kill people left and right. Then red would walk up to me be like im bringing in my bard on another account.

They would pop in thru the gate and run a script on that account to disco and peace my dragon while the dudes red would run around and attack you.

Woooooooooooo how much fun is that yes man that gets me ****ing pumped just talkin about HOW ****ING COOL UO is!! woooo hoooooo

 

[Green Meanie]

Vyal PLease come back i miss taking your pots. Your post brings to light a truth though. Your template was nothing a well prepair dexer Mage or true sami couldnt compet wiith. However everyone wants the necro/pure mage domanate along with the disarm moving shot archers and they just cant keep up with the greater dragon

 

[Turdnugget]

Vyal, you don't play EA shards anymore. Quit being a troll or i'll be forced to report you =/

You cant use the Its a way to keep up with the cheaters argument.
Why? There are just as many pvp tamers that cheat non stop. Running the same scripts and speeders

If you would have read my post entirely...

Current UO has given me a bad taste as far as PvP goes. It's so tainted with scripters/cheat engine users that it's not fun to use anything besides a dismount tamer, unless I know the person doesn't use those programs. It's kinda pointless to try to fight someone on a dexer, or a mage, or a crafter if the person i'm fighting can move twice as fast as I and magically jump 3-4 tiles at a time. You see, using a dismount tamer is a lot easier to kill someone who can magically be off the screen in a split second. It puts the cheater on a level playing field, actually giving someone a chance to kill them.

I said that due to all the cheats, I choose to use my dismounter tamer for easy kills. I know some PvP tamers use the same programs. I don't. Otherwise i'd probably play a mage. So yes, I will use the arguement that this puts the cheaters on the same playing level as I. With or without pets. I always dismount the speeders. I wont give them the gratification of getting an easy kill due to their leet cheats. I will use every gimp tactic in game, every gimp template in game to thwart these e-tards who feel the need, due to their true suckability at PvP, to use programs to enhance what their character can do in game.

This game is taking less and less skill by every new expansion/patch. So i'll be as gimp as can be until they do something about the rampant cheats. Once that's taken care of, i'll go back to playing a mage.

 

[Widow Maker]

Wenchie sweetie, getting a straight answer out of you is like trying to milk a bull. You get a mess, a smiling bull but never what you want.

The issue is an exploited Blue on Blue situation in UO. NOT about what you think should happen to pet re-organization. That is an entirely separate and unique issue that may or may not warrant scrutiny.

I am fine with allowing Bards to provoke back on players and whatever, as long as they flag appropriately to their actions.

That is all this is about. Hell, I don't even use GDs on my tamer to PvP. They are to slow. I use a beetle/mare, beetle/bake, Dread/bake, bake/bake or dread/mare combo..depending on my moods for any given day. I will also go tame a few frenzieds for some fun. I truly do not care about GDs and anything you may wish on them. I do not use any 3rd party programs and yes, others who flag on your critters can come in and kill you. Happens to me a lot. I know it is a bug but that is what is done and is another separate issue.

Truth be told, I usually play one of the reds outside the GZ looking for a kill. I eat tamers for lunch but they are usually a good target that will flag to me. Then some a$$hole bard will come in and poof..targets gone and I can't even kill the damned bard because they NEVER flag or come out of the GZ. I only bring in a blue when there are enough enemies out there to warrant it.

I bring this issue because it is simply wrong and highly detrimental to the game. Allowing this exploit to continue affects not only me, looking for red or blue targets..but completely wipes out an entire template...and THAT is 100% wrong on all counts. It has NOTHING to do with any type of PvP balance, as you seem to see it. You are wrong to try to give credence to any type of association between the two.

On the issue stated in this thread about removing GZ from Fel..not only no but HELL no. If you do not give a safe place for the blues to rest and recuperate, bolster their confidence, basically a safe zone, PvP will surely decline to levels that are not conducive to ever playing again. Be careful what you ask for on this, it will destroy what a pvper loves in this game. Targets.


** Mods ** Please do not allow a couple thread ruining posters to get this thread locked. Just remove their posts. This is an important issue that warrants good discussion and arguing. Please allow it to continue.

 

[Wenchkin]

Wenchie sweetie, getting a straight answer out of you is like trying to milk a bull. You get a mess, a smiling bull but never what you want.

Sounds like you're speaking from experience... no wonder my posts fly over your head.

The issue is an exploited Blue on Blue situation in UO. NOT about what you think should happen to pet re-organization. That is an entirely separate and unique issue that may or may not warrant scrutiny.

May not warrant scrutiny? LMAO. Tamers are in need of wee bit more than re-organisation...

I am fine with allowing Bards to provoke back on players and whatever, as long as they flag appropriately to their actions.

And had you read my posts you'd see that I don't have a problem with flagging either. The only difference is you want bards fixed before tamers are erm... re-organised. And you seem in denial that tamers even need balancing to begin with.

Truth be told, I usually play one of the reds outside the GZ looking for a kill. I eat tamers for lunch but they are usually a good target that will flag to me. Then some a$$hole bard will come in and poof..targets gone and I can't even kill the damned bard because they NEVER flag or come out of the GZ. I only bring in a blue when there are enough enemies out there to warrant it.

Isn't it funny, you don't like a blue playing "can't kill me" in the guardzone if it's a bard, but you seem quite keen on allowing tamers to pick targets off and pull the same trick.

I bring this issue because it is simply wrong and highly detrimental to the game. Allowing this exploit to continue affects not only me, looking for red or blue targets..but completely wipes out an entire template...and THAT is 100% wrong on all counts....

Over dramatize much? Bards are "exploiting" and "wiping out" the tamer template are they? Just by discording a pet and not being flagged? Pity they'll still "wipe out" said template if they're flagged grey.

...It has NOTHING to do with any type of PvP balance, as you seem to see it. You are wrong to try to give credence to any type of association between the two.

Yes, we can see that you're not interested in anything approaching balance. That's where your whole argument falls on its face. You want to dispense with balance to favour overpowered tamers and heaven help anyone who suggests tamers lose some of their power first. Glad you cleared that up for us.

Wenchy

 

[Gwendar-SP]

/signed

If one casted a debuffing spell on a pet it sure would be hostile. Why should discording which is far more damaging not be hostile?

 

[Widow Maker]

Sounds like you're speaking from experience... no wonder my posts fly over your head.

What a pitiful attempt at an insult. I won't allow your lack of anything substantial to say, outside of your obvious hatred of tamers, to redirect the focus though.

May not warrant scrutiny? LMAO. Tamers are in need of wee bit more than re-organisation...

Wow, your lack of comprehension here is actually quite astonishing. Once again, lack of anything to contribute outside of your tamer agenda. Read this paragraph you cut up to suit your needs again. Maybe read it a few times and try to garner it's purpose of trying to focus you out of your agenda driven responses that have nothing to do with this issue.

And had you read my posts you'd see that I don't have a problem with flagging either. The only difference is you want bards fixed before tamers are erm... re-organised. And you seem in denial that tamers even need balancing to begin with.

Again, astonishing.... do or can you actually look at this issue outside of your tamer agenda? It has nothing to do with it. The fix to Blue Bards exploiting is not nor should be dependent on any type of tamer balance. They are not a related issue. I would think that enough people have tried to tell you that. Truthfully, what you are trying to convince people of is that you want an obvious exploit to be allowed to stand until your personal agenda for tamers is met? Wow...all I can say is Wow. As far as tamer balance is concerned, in case you have not yet mined this data from my responses...here it is in 3 words: I don't care. Your agenda is not mine. I want targets, a tamer is a target. I do not worry about their pets (except for a pack of frenzieds..they are the shiznit). I actually get a lot of fun out of killing the pets, when the opportunity allows.

Isn't it funny, you don't like a blue playing "can't kill me" in the guardzone if it's a bard, but you seem quite keen on allowing tamers to pick targets off and pull the same trick.

I kill tamers in the gz by the dozens because they actually flag on me, a normal person would have garnered that information in this quote "Truth be told, I usually play one of the reds outside the GZ looking for a kill. I eat tamers for lunch but they are usually a good target that will flag to me". But, I digress, this would be a normal person capable of holding a discussion focused on the issue at hand. Basics here are; I get targeted by tamers, we fight, they die or I die, guard zone or not. Blue bards removing tamers from play, while safe in the gz, completely disrupts this character interaction that helps to keep this game afloat.

Over dramatize much? Bards are "exploiting" and "wiping out" the tamer template are they? Just by discording a pet and not being flagged? Pity they'll still "wipe out" said template if they're flagged grey.

Wow..again, there seems to be no bottom level to your lack of true knowledge here. If the Blue Bard flags grey, the tamer gets to kill them without a guard wack, as do other blue players and red players. This allows for good character interaction with the bard template. Translating that for you; they become the target they should be by performing offensive actions, as the game rules should apply. I love playing my red bard but if I discord or direct peace a blue pet in GZ, I absolutely get guard wacked.

Yes, we can see that you're not interested in anything approaching balance. That's where your whole argument falls on its face. You want to dispense with balance to favour overpowered tamers and heaven help anyone who suggests tamers lose some of their power first. Glad you cleared that up for us.

Wenchy

ROFL..falls on its face? I applaud you for your passion against tamers, more power to you. I and the readers here likely feel that the only face down action here is you against your dreaded tamers. My arguments stand up against your agendas just fine. -1.0 to your game and debate creds.

I apologize for your inability to successfully play against the tamer template. I, however, do not share that inability. I am a pvper who wants targets and do not agree with a bug/ exploit destroying some of my most popular and satisfying targets. I also don't agree with it when someone does it against me and I am sure it pisses a lot of other people off. They end up disgusted / frustrated.. log out, maybe cancel subscriptions, but almost certainly stop coming to Fel, for the most part. This is bad.

Please take notice that I made reference to your tamer agendas many times in my responses. This was done to try to show you how warped your thought process has become, possibly due to your tamer hatred, and maybe allow you to think a bit more straight about the stated issue at hand. Please pay special attention to this, it has a purpose.

I am sorry that you can not seem to simply say Yes or No to the issue and leave it at that, and/or debate the issue. I, and all your fellow players, apologize for your lack of understanding and hope you have a very good day.

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

The whole damned flaggin system needs a kick in the ASCII code! IMHO!

Actually I've always though it'd be kick azz to make Bards to where they could actively participate in pvp. Let em Voke-disco- and peace. Make sure they flag apropriatly for their actions of course!

Also I'd love if they'd give the bard the skill that the Dryads and Satyrs have that causes clothes to fall off LMAO! I've notice a few things it only works on opposite gender: IE Dryad on works on male toons and Satyrs only work female toons. I'd PAY to see this at work in pvp.

Okay picture it: some artied out l33t dood attacks innocent bard, bard strikes chord VOILA! l33t dood is now NEKKID not so l33t dood. Bard then spanks his l33t azz with some good old fashion magery!! Seriously who wouldn't wanna see this? Well that and tameable Ancient Wryms/Crimson/Platinum dragons...um forget that last cause it can get me shot around here!

 

[Widow Maker]

I am 110% with ya on all counts. What a blast I would have with my bard again. Flagging properly and according to game rules, of course :0

 

[Wenchkin]

What a pitiful attempt at an insult. I won't allow your lack of anything substantial to say, outside of your obvious hatred of tamers, to redirect the focus though.

Hate to break it to ya, I have 8 tamers... all live in Fel. You don't have to be a tamer hater to agree with the argument that tamers need to balanced. Nor do you need to be a tamer hater to see that tamers with their pets are far more unbalancing to PvP than bards discoing pets. And again, I have not said that bards shouldn't flag, but that tamers are a higher priority fix.

Again, astonishing.... do or can you actually look at this issue outside of your tamer agenda? It has nothing to do with it. The fix to Blue Bards exploiting is not nor should be dependent on any type of tamer balance...

Each aspect of PvP in Fel impacts on others. If you strengthen up any template it will affect those around it. So when the devs look at PvP balance in Fel they cannot do it in such a single-focus manner.

If bards are changed to flag when they disco tamer pets, that strengthens the position of tamers. The devs have said that tamers need to be changed and balanced out already, so why would it be sensible to boost them up first? Even fixing both classes simultaneously would be better than pumping up an already overpowered class. But to fix bards and leave tamers even more powerful would lead to a class being even further out of whack than it already is.

Basics here are; I get targeted by tamers, we fight, they die or I die, guard zone or not. Blue bards removing tamers from play, while safe in the gz, completely disrupts this character interaction that helps to keep this game afloat.

Balance in PvP also encourages players to come to Fel and fight. Remember, for the umpteenth time, I have not said that bards shouldn't flag, but that the tamers must be fixed either before or at the same time.

Wow..again, there seems to be no bottom level to your lack of true knowledge here....

Just because someone has differing views to you, does not mean they don't understand the situation.

Please take notice that I made reference to your tamer agendas many times in my responses. This was done to try to show you how warped your thought process has become, possibly due to your tamer hatred, and maybe allow you to think a bit more straight about the stated issue at hand. Please pay special attention to this, it has a purpose.

I appreciate your concern for my mental health, however you're so far from the truth it's laughable. How can I be a tamer hater when that is almost exclusively my template of choice? I just happen to understand the power those characters have, and realize that Fel PvP won't appeal to players if it's not balanced. I run a RP town in Fel, I'm dedicated to pulling people into Fel to interact there. I just don't agree that strengthening up tamers is the way to do it. PvP must be balanced over all classes to hold any real appeal. In fact Fel IMO should be regarded not just as PvP facet but one for better quality RP encounters, PvM and crafting.

Wenchy

 

[Widow Maker]

Wenchie sweetie..I give up...Tamers and their ilk are the bane of this game. They and their pets should be nerfed into soup and then fed to the homeless in some very bad neighborhood...ok? I think we all understand where you stand on tamers and anything that screws that template.

Now, you can go create some other tamer hater thread and continue to work out your issues. Go Team Go!! (Oh wait, you already did...lol...my bad)

For the rest of us concerned with removing an exploit from the game..can we all stay here and talk about it? Is that ok with you and your various agendas? We just want this one problem fixed by bringing it to the attention of the Devs.

Hey Wilki..whoever..could we please have this issue repaired or addressed??