Any Chance of making Gargoyles viable PVP chars?

[I Love Girls]

I recently made a 4/6 chiv parry thrower thinking it would be a fun character.... However after investing close to 200 mil into the suit and char I have found out that gargoyle throwers are practically impossible to use as a PVP character.
Template is:

Throwing 120
tactics 100
Chiv 120
Spell W. 80
Parry 120
ninja 85
resist 120
45 hci
45 dci
60 ssi 180 stam
4/6 chiv
20 MR
18 HPR

First off I hit 3/10 shots against a non parry character at 4 tiles away. Once HLD hits my other test char I make 5/10 hits against my non parry melee character at the ideal 4-6 tiles away. Once I move the character 7 tiles away the template becomes even more useless as now once I do hit the other character the damage is exteremely reduced. Are there any plans to improve gargoyles to make them viable as PVP characters again?

Thanks!

 

[cobb]

I recently made a 4/6 chiv parry thrower thinking it would be a fun character.... However after investing close to 200 mil into the suit and char I have found out that gargoyle throwers are practically impossible to use as a PVP character.
Template is:

Throwing 120
tactics 100
Chiv 120
Spell W. 80
Parry 120
ninja 85
resist 120
45 hci
45 dci
60 ssi 180 stam
4/6 chiv
20 MR
18 HPR

First off I hit 3/10 shots against a non parry character at 4 tiles away. Once HLD hits my other test char I make 5/10 hits against my non parry melee character at the ideal 4-6 tiles away. Once I move the character 7 tiles away the template becomes even more useless as now once I do hit the other character the damage is exteremely reduced. Are there any plans to improve gargoyles to make them viable as PVP characters again?

Thanks!

Not surprising since 4/6 chiv characters are known for their weak offense.

Also gargoyles will be even more useless when the next pub hits. With rideable 5 slot pets becoming available for tamers, there is even less of a reason to play a gargoyle

 

[Yadd of Legends]

Parry is supposed to offset the HCI loss when you have a shield, but who knows, did you try it without a shield?

 

[I Love Girls]

yeah I have 120 parry with a shield... its even worse without a shield! I also have 150 str and 150 dex... 30 stam increase on suit

 

[I Love Girls]

Not surprising since 4/6 chiv characters are known for their weak offense.

Also gargoyles will be even more useless when the next pub hits. With rideable 5 slot pets becoming available for tamers, there is even less of a reason to play a gargoyle

Yes... well I dont mind the weak hits from low tactics and no anat... I hate the amount of missed hits! Its like boxing with no arms

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

Last i checked, Throwing+Shield has a horrendously bad hit chance, even if you have high DEX and Parry.

 

[I Love Girls]

Last i checked, Throwing+Shield has a horrendously bad hit chance, even if you have high DEX and Parry.

well even with no shield its pretty pitiful... however this is the exact quote from UO guide:

Shield Penalties
All the throwing weapons are one-handed in nature which allows the thrower to equip a shield or other item in their off hand. The player will suffer a defense and hit chance penalty for using a shield while using a throwing weapon. These penalties can be offset by investing skill points into Parrying. Player’s with no skill points in the Parry Skill will now have a minimum chance to hit.

 

[OREOGL]

I recently made a 4/6 chiv parry thrower thinking it would be a fun character.... However after investing close to 200 mil into the suit and char I have found out that gargoyle throwers are practically impossible to use as a PVP character.
Template is:

Throwing 120
tactics 100
Chiv 120
Spell W. 80
Parry 120
ninja 85
resist 120
45 hci
45 dci
60 ssi 180 stam
4/6 chiv
20 MR
18 HPR

First off I hit 3/10 shots against a non parry character at 4 tiles away. Once HLD hits my other test char I make 5/10 hits against my non parry melee character at the ideal 4-6 tiles away. Once I move the character 7 tiles away the template becomes even more useless as now once I do hit the other character the damage is exteremely reduced. Are there any plans to improve gargoyles to make them viable as PVP characters again?

Thanks!

There isn't anything wrong with gargoyles.

There is a penalty against parry and throwing.

I think you can understand why giving throwers 67.5% blocking without a throwing penalty would be absolutely stupid.

It's just a problem with your template, not gargoyles in general.

 

[Lord Arm]

did devs ever fix the riding swipe bug on gargoyles? it will say u must heal your pet before mounting. I would be full health and could fly until I logged off and back on. reported many times let me know if fixed or not lol

 

[805connection]

There isn't anything wrong with gargoyles.

There is a penalty against parry and throwing.

I think you can understand why giving throwers 67.5% blocking without a throwing penalty would be absolutely stupid.

It's just a problem with your template, not gargoyles in general.

no this should be fixed throwers have gotten hit harder than anyone,

they only have two viable weapons for pvp the Mortal was nerfed, the AI was Nerfed,
Moving shot is dog ****,

Hits at a shorter range
Does less damage
Hit chance penalty when moving shot
No more elemental damage

 

[805connection]

There isn't anything wrong with gargoyles.

There is a penalty against parry and throwing.

I think you can understand why giving throwers 67.5% blocking without a throwing penalty would be absolutely stupid.

It's just a problem with your template, not gargoyles in general.

They fixed that,

Overall the devs just made gargs and really did nothing for them or haven't done anything to help them out in the last 6 years. Half the new arties gargs cant even wear, none of the marks of trav they can wear. Just need a few tweaks to make them viable.

 

[OREOGL]

no this should be fixed throwers have gotten hit harder than anyone,

they only have two viable weapons for pvp the Mortal was nerfed, the AI was Nerfed,
Moving shot is dog ****,

Hits at a shorter range
Does less damage
Hit chance penalty when moving shot
No more elemental damage

No it should not be or they should make all bows one handed weapons and make all Melee 8-10 range.

How stupid would that be?

 

[OREOGL]

They fixed that,

Overall the devs just made gargs and really did nothing for them or haven't done anything to help them out in the last 6 years. Half the new arties gargs cant even wear, none of the marks of trav they can wear. Just need a few tweaks to make them viable.

They are no less viable than human archers.

 

[805connection]

They are no less viable than human archers.

you have never played a thower for pvp before


I use every human bow for pvp
Bow,
X bow
Heavy X bow
Composite bow
Elven Composite Bow
Yumi
Magical short bow.

Garg has
Cyclone
Soul Glaive
Boomerang (never used one of these)

A Garg also needs to forfeit their ability to use potions potions on the fly without disarming a weapon. I have played a parry mage garg and it was not all that its cracked up to be and the hit chance needs to be looked at.

 

[OREOGL]

you have never played a thower for pvp before


I use every human bow for pvp
Bow,
X bow
Heavy X bow
Composite bow
Elven Composite Bow
Yumi
Magical short bow.

Garg has
Cyclone
Soul Glaive
Boomerang (never used one of these)

A Garg also needs to forfeit their ability to use potions potions on the fly without disarming a weapon. I have played a parry mage garg and it was not all that its cracked up to be and the hit chance needs to be looked at.

Wrong, I've played both.

They do not need parry and ranged attacks, period.

 

[805connection]

Wrong, I've played both.

They do not need parry and ranged attacks, period.

Yeah and you have not given one logical argument why they don't

I'm not sure but how many garg dexxers do you see running around with shields at all? overall how many players outside of mages do you see use a shield with a weapon skill. . not many because its not that viable, most shields have some great stats on them and it would be fun to see more templates that are not soo potion heavy. personally i also see that most shields legionaries have 10 swing speed, most weapons are able to swing at cap other than two handed weapons and throwing weapons.

 

[cobb]

Poor gargoyles...

 

[OREOGL]

Yeah and you have not given one logical argument why they don't

I'm not sure but how many garg dexxers do you see running around with shields at all? overall how many players outside of mages do you see use a shield with a weapon skill. . not many because its not that viable, most shields have some great stats on them and it would be fun to see more templates that are not soo potion heavy. personally i also see that most shields legionaries have 10 swing speed, most weapons are able to swing at cap other than two handed weapons and throwing weapons.

No you've just ignored it.

No ranged weapons should get 67.5% blocking.

 

[805connection]

No you've just ignored it.

No ranged weapons should get 67.5% blocking.

i dont think anyone gets that blocking where are you getting that number from?

 

[OREOGL]

i dont think anyone gets that blocking where are you getting that number from?

weapon skill + parry.

 

[I Love Girls]

Wrong, I've played both.

They do not need parry and ranged attacks, period.

Umm the char is giving up potions for the most part to be able to have parry...

In general a Gargoyle has been nerfed in all aspects of PVP esp when compared to an Archer....
as @805connection pointed out:

Cant chain mortal
AI is now hitting for 30 instead of 35 now
Moving shot hit chance is crap and now only hits for physical
No new arties for gargoyle race for years
two semi viable PVP throwing weps
HCI over cap was nerfed


As far as having a ranged wep and having a chance to parry the char would give up the ability to drink pots. In PVP. So right now its 6 things stacked up against one. Not to mention only twp PVP weps...

Anyhow, I guess its wishful thinking wanting them to balance out the char races a bit...

 

[OREOGL]

Umm the char is giving up potions for the most part to be able to have parry...

In general a Gargoyle has been nerfed in all aspects of PVP esp when compared to an Archer....
as @805connection pointed out:

Cant chain mortal
AI is now hitting for 30 instead of 35 now
Moving shot hit chance is crap and now only hits for physical
No new arties for gargoyle race for years
two semi viable PVP throwing weps
HCI over cap was nerfed


As far as having a ranged wep and having a chance to parry the char would give up the ability to drink pots. In PVP. So right now its 6 things stacked up against one. Not to mention only twp PVP weps...

Anyhow, I guess its wishful thinking wanting them to balance out the char races a bit...

You should lose chugging if you have 67.5% blocking. This doesn't change for Melee dexers so I don't know why you'd expect it to be different for throwers.

Ranged weapons were capped because the 35 AI were doing etc were doing stupid amounts of damage, particularly with bows.

Chain mortal was nerfed with good reason also. That should have never been allowed.

 

[MalagAste]

You should lose chugging if you have 67.5% blocking. This doesn't change for Melee dexers so I don't know why you'd expect it to be different for throwers.

Ranged weapons were capped because the 35 AI were doing etc were doing stupid amounts of damage, particularly with bows.

Chain mortal was nerfed with good reason also. That should have never been allowed.

No one cries when a twit with a bokuto was chaining nerve strike making it impossible to move or do anything at all...

 

[PwnySlaystation]

No one cries when a twit with a bokuto was chaining nerve strike making it impossible to move or do anything at all...

UO Assist "Use Item" on a trapped box.

You're welcome.

 

[Slayvite]

Time to add Throwing to the skill list for ALL races and merge Gargoyles into obscurity like the Elves.

 

[MalagAste]

UO Assist "Use Item" on a trapped box.

You're welcome.

thanks... never much worked when they do it every 1.25 seconds...

 

[PwnySlaystation]

thanks... never much worked when they do it every 1.25 seconds...

"Your target resists the paralysis"

Para from a weapon has a cooldown. I don't get why you're making something out of nothing? Nerve strike damage hits off every time, but the para effect is on a timer, as it always has been.

 

[OREOGL]

No one cries when a twit with a bokuto was chaining nerve strike making it impossible to move or do anything at all...

And yet they nerfed it...hmmmm......

Most were using just a bok anyways and chugging not shields.

 

[805connection]

You should lose chugging if you have 67.5% blocking. This doesn't change for Melee dexers so I don't know why you'd expect it to be different for throwers.

Ranged weapons were capped because the 35 AI were doing etc were doing stupid amounts of damage, particularly with bows.

Chain mortal was nerfed with good reason also. That should have never been allowed.

He is not asking to be able to chug he is saying it should work the same with as it does for a melee weapon.

 

[OREOGL]

He is not asking to be able to chug he is saying it should work the same with as it does for a melee weapon.

The first line of his response was stating gargoyles are Giving up chugging with parry. So does Melee.

So in response to you, it does work like Melee the difference is throwing can go up to a range of 11. Melee is 1.

So the hci penalty is adequate with parry.

 

[J. E. Tamer]

I sure wish gargoyles had an equivalent to the Darkwood suit, or to the two Eodon suits. That would make melee gargoyle a lot more fun.

 

[I Love Girls]

The first line of his response was stating gargoyles are Giving up chugging with parry. So does Melee.

So in response to you, it does work like Melee the difference is throwing can go up to a range of 11. Melee is 1.

So the hci penalty is adequate with parry.

Throwers are already penalized by hci based off of distance and damage reductions. The current way gargs are set up, devs are encouraging you to have parry in order to use a shield on a gargoyle. It is suppose to off set the hci reduction. Apparently I am not the only one who feels that gargoyles are not viable pvp chars. Esp when throwers compared to archers.

 

[OREOGL]

Throwers are already penalized by hci based off of distance and damage reductions. The current way gargs are set up, devs are encouraging you to have parry in order to use a shield on a gargoyle. It is suppose to off set the hci reduction. Apparently I am not the only one who feels that gargoyles are not viable pvp chars. Esp when throwers compared to archers.

Yeah increasing the skill is supposed to offset the hci penalty and Dexterity is supposed to also.
I'd like the specific mechanics and offsets as it appears the only specific information is a 12%
Hci reduction when throwing with what appears to be 1/3 of the weapon range.


They could adjust the sweet spot mechanics to be normal since ranged weapons and AI are now nerfed down or capped.

I don't agree the penalties should be removed for throwers to also use a shield.

 

[WhiteWitch]

They do need to show gargoyles a bit of love, the deal with throwing is odd:

• Underthrown - If, while equipped, a weapon has a maximum range of six tiles, and a player throws at a player two tiles away (too close) they have a Hit Chance penalty of 12%, but no damage reduction.
• Perfect - Maximum range of six tiles, thrown a distance of four tiles. No Hit Chance penalty, no damage reduction
• Overthrown - Maximum range of six tiles, thrown a distance of six tiles. No Hit Chance penalty, but 47% damage reduction

This makes no sense, why would the hit chance be less at close range, if you throw something at someone, you are more likely to hit them if you are close, surely the damage reduction should happen at close range, and the hit chance penalty at long range?

Aside from this annoying mechanic, still only 3 weapon types after all this time, its a poor mans archer with zero ammo cost as its only upside.

 

[cobb]

They do need to show gargoyles a bit of love, the deal with throwing is odd:

• Underthrown - If, while equipped, a weapon has a maximum range of six tiles, and a player throws at a player two tiles away (too close) they have a Hit Chance penalty of 12%, but no damage reduction.
• Perfect - Maximum range of six tiles, thrown a distance of four tiles. No Hit Chance penalty, no damage reduction
• Overthrown - Maximum range of six tiles, thrown a distance of six tiles. No Hit Chance penalty, but 47% damage reduction

This makes no sense, why would the hit chance be less at close range, if you throw something at someone, you are more likely to hit them if you are close, surely the damage reduction should happen at close range, and the hit chance penalty at long range?

Aside from this annoying mechanic, still only 3 weapon types after all this time, its a poor mans archer with zero ammo cost as its only upside.

I agree. Getting rid of this hci/damage penalty system based on range would be a good start to making gargoyles worthwhile.