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4/6 Remove Curse (Chivalry)

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CovenantX

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0.5s casting time was at 4/6, I've not tested the base cast-time.

IMO Remove Curse, is the main reason chivalry is even useful. so any adjustment to it could be enough to essentially remove it from the playing field. (I don't want that).
 

Cady

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Remove Curse Honestly I don't think it needs a nerf, mainly because we have Enchanted Apples (consumable).

Enchanted Apples: 30 second cooldown (it almost never exceeds this), instant, uninterruptible, cannot fail.
Chivalry>Remove Curse: Interruptible (though tough to interrupt) 0.5 second cast time, can fail (based on Chiv+Karma vs attackers casting skills & amount of debuffs) 20 base mana cost 12-9 mana @40-55 lmc respectively.

It should be hard to kill a Paladin, because they have poor offense, Holyfist is relatively easy to heal through (you can cast G-heal/Spiritspeak between Holy-fist spam), it Also takes a lot of mana. 40 base (24/18 @40/55 lmc)

Side notes:
1) I'm against any and all consumable items "Better" than spells that offer the same effects. (skill = > consumables 100%)
2) I don't like to factor the difficulty of building suits for 4/6 chivalry/spellweaving vs other casting schools, but it is somewhat difficult to reach caps on the necessary mods, and still have a sufficient amount of mana/mana regen to sustain the use of chivalry.
Note to Garth and Frodo:
You see! You can disagree with OP and others, no problem! You know, it's just nice if you can explain why you feel the way you do in a logical way. Not just accuse OP of being a 'whiner', and then ironically continuing with whining about how any proposed change will 'ruin' PvM.

To Covenant:
I have found that Remove Curse seems to be way too spammable by the folks playing Chiv chars. And it's way too hard(for me at least) to fizzle one, and then of course planning for the follow up fizzle on it, while actually trying to get off a damage spell in there too. Fights like that seem to go no where.
 

OREOGL

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Well, like I said it's difficult, but it's the same difference of interrupting a mages magic arrow, the first interrupt is the hardest.
I will say though, one mild advantage Chivalry does have is that the spells cannot be overcasted. (the courser always comes up unless it's interrupted)

Edit: with the gear you suggested having a shield brings up a more specific template, indicating parry may/may not be involved. but another option is to have FC on your weapon, then the choices are:
1) do you go with anti-disarm (disarm would hurt you even more in this situation)
OR
2) do you go with chivalry>Holyfist?
To address the edit, for pvp I see most chiv templates using parry.

It's an assumption on my part, but not to be really looked into too much, i was just using it as an example.

You could just as easy put fc on a weapon.
 

OREOGL

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Shh, don't tip them off!



Spam the ever-loving **** out of Weaken like your life depends on it. Which will work (most of the time) until they start running.
Eh, I guess man but you don't really kill people by just spamming weaken.

You could slip a poison in but that's almost and instant cure too.

Chiv is by far probably the best defensive skill there is.

If someone dies on a 4/6 chiv, they probably need a little practice.
 

Lord Frodo

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Again...

"Why are you commenting? You don't pvp and you're not offering anything to the conversation.
AGAIN I am a paying customer of EA/BS/UO and have every right to say what I think no matter what you think. Just because YOU do not like my answers really means very little to me. I am letting the DEVs know what I think and why this is even being discussed. Do you tell people that do not pay to play UO that support your ideas that because they no longer PvP that their opinion does not matter, no you do not because they support you and your ideas. And what I offer is something I and a few others are tired of all this PvP crying NERF this NERF that and no one telling the DEVs we pay for this game too and our voice holds just as much weight as the PvPers. Sorry you do not agree but you know UO does not revolve just around the few PvPers that like to cry the loudest around here.
 
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PaithanTheElf

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So what really happened to get this much attention?
Was there a player roaming Fel that you tried to kill and could not?
Was there a miner/resource gather that you tried to kill to take their stuff but could not?
Was there a PvMer doing a spawn and when it was over you tried to kill to take his/her stuff but could not?
We are talking a survival spell that is used a lot in PvM and now it looks like some have found another use for it to survive in Fel to keep what they gathered.
Enquiring minds want to know @PaithanTheElf
I only actively started posting about PVP issues around January of this year.

But... (PVP) Holy Fist...

You can refer to the holy fist thread where I brought this up already- back when I started on PvP issues. It was basically in another topic so my comments were ignored. Now I am bringing them up.

Inquiring minds want to know why you can't give a reason as to how it is fair. If you can't then you aren't contributing and are derailing a thread which falls under trolling per stratics rules.
 
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CovenantX

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You see! You can disagree with OP and others, no problem! You know, it's just nice if you can explain why you feel the way you do in a logical way.
To Covenant:
I have found that Remove Curse seems to be way too spammable by the folks playing Chiv chars. And it's way too hard(for me at least) to fizzle one, and then of course planning for the follow up fizzle on it, while actually trying to get off a damage spell in there too. Fights like that seem to go no where.

Hehe, constructive criticism should be Required to post in threads like this: The OP suggested it, I've mentioned it (in other threads) should be required to explain why you agree/disagree with someone, some people don't feel it's important... Some of those same people, blame us "Pvpers" that the Devs nerf/adjust/change etc- things because WE brought it up. -Well, provide valid points as to why it should/shouldn't be changed.


It's very spammable, the anti-overcast is probably the main reason for that, but the mana-cost is what justifies the cast-speed. (IMO)

if a Chivalry user drops below a certain threshold in their mana due to healing/removing curse etc (depends on how much mana/regen they have), they won't be killing anyone because their offense (holy-fist) takes a lot more mana, as mana conservation can be an issue with chivalry
 

PaithanTheElf

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Hehe, constructive criticism should be Required to post in threads like this: The OP suggested it, I've mentioned it (in other threads) should be required to explain why you agree/disagree with someone, some people don't feel it's important... Some of those same people, blame us "Pvpers" that the Devs nerf/adjust/change etc- things because WE brought it up. -Well, provide valid points as to why it should/shouldn't be changed.


It's very spammable, the anti-overcast is probably the main reason for that, but the mana-cost is what justifies the cast-speed. (IMO)

if a Chivalry user drops below a certain threshold in their mana due to healing/removing curse etc (depends on how much mana/regen they have), they won't be killing anyone because their offense (holy-fist) takes a lot more mana, as mana conservation can be an issue with chivalry
For some reason you think chiv chars only offense is holy fist. It is easily paired with so many other skills because it is not tied to another skill (such as necro or magery).
 

Cady

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AGAIN I am a paying customer of EA/BS/UO and have every right to say what I think no matter what you think. Just because YOU do not like my answers really means very little to me. I am letting the DEVs know what I think and why this is even being discussed. Do you tell people that do not pay to play UO that support your ideas that because they no longer PvP that their opinion does not matter, no you do not because they support you and your ideas. And what I offer is something I and a few others are tired of all this PvP crying NERF this NERF that and no one telling the DEVs we pay for this game too and our voice holds just as much weight as the PvPers. Sorry you do not agree but you know UO does not revolve just around the few PvPers that like to cry the loudest around here.
As I read this I was imagining Elijah Wood wearing a worn out, dirty winter coat in Mid-August being forcibly removed from a McDonald's for urinating on the counter and screaming about people ruining his PvM. 'I am a paying customer dammit...'
 

drcossack

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Eh, I guess man but you don't really kill people by just spamming weaken.

You could slip a poison in but that's almost and instant cure too.

Chiv is by far probably the best defensive skill there is.

If someone dies on a 4/6 chiv, they probably need a little practice.
The only way you'll kill a 4/6 chiv 1v1 is if their internet goes/client crash. I've tried it more than once, and everything I do is just pointless since they cast so fast. They can't kill me either though, even with Fist, so it's a wash. If their mana pools weren't so ridiculous, it'd be simple to just run them out of mana.

If nothing else, I'd like a slight reduction in the cast time so it's not so easy to spam. Or a slight buff in the mana cost.
 

Lord Frodo

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As I read this I was imagining Elijah Wood wearing a worn out, dirty winter coat in Mid-August being forcibly removed from a McDonald's for urinating on the counter and screaming about people ruining his PvM. 'I am a paying customer dammit...'
And your point is worthless. Piss and moan all you want and throw insults along with it matters very little to me. You try your bully tactics in game and here on the boards to no affect but that is ok we understand.
 

CovenantX

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For some reason you think chiv chars only offense is holy fist. It is easily paired with so many other skills because it is not tied to another skill (such as necro or magery).
Chivalry's only offensive spells are holyfist (Mastery) & holy light (chivalry). I never said they couldn't be combined with other skills. (I was hoping someone would bring that up)
Which is why Chivalry (as an individual skill) does not need to be changed.

The skill amount is a relevant point, except the 60% of the spells are completely useless in pvp. only one offensive spell (holy-light) as Holyfist is a Mastery spell which requires a Weapon skill & Chivalry & Karma. (There's your 240.0 skill)
 

Martell

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Chivalry's only offensive spells are holyfist (Mastery) & holy light (chivalry). I never said they couldn't be combined with other skills. (I was hoping someone would bring that up)
Which is why Chivalry (as an individual skill) does not need to be changed.

The skill amount is a relevant point, except the 60% of the spells are completely useless in pvp. only one offensive spell (holy-light) as Holyfist is a Mastery spell which requires a Weapon skill & Chivalry & Karma. (There's your 240.0 skill)
1) Karma isn't a real requirement.
2) This isnt about changing chivalry, this is about changing remove curse. The reason for remove curse needing to be changed is due to the introduction of Holy Fist and it becoming an all encompassing offensive and defensive power house.
3) The power of chivalry is further just augmented by the fact that you no longer need to give anything up to be a 4/6 chiver (13 years ago you needed to add meditation and drop resist or healing or anat or some other skill to make the temp remotely viable and even then you probably weren't all 70's with max mr and mana increase on every piece). Today, you don't run out of mana and you can easily augment Chiv's great defensive spells by incorporating Spellweaving, bushido, alchemy, resist, and/or animal taming through jewels. On a mage the only way to kill the pali is by stacking debuffs and quickly dealing out damage, which is near impossible with the Remove Curse cast time and mana cost (won't even take into account all the other crap that can easily be paired with it).
 

GarthGrey

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1) Karma isn't a real requirement.
2) This isnt about changing chivalry, this is about changing remove curse. The reason for remove curse needing to be changed is due to the introduction of Holy Fist and it becoming an all encompassing offensive and defensive power house.
3) The power of chivalry is further just augmented by the fact that you no longer need to give anything up to be a 4/6 chiver (13 years ago you needed to add meditation and drop resist or healing or anat or some other skill to make the temp remotely viable and even then you probably weren't all 70's with max mr and mana increase on every piece). Today, you don't run out of mana and you can easily augment Chiv's great defensive spells by incorporating Spellweaving, bushido, alchemy, resist, and/or animal taming through jewels. On a mage the only way to kill the pali is by stacking debuffs and quickly dealing out damage, which is near impossible with the Remove Curse cast time and mana cost (won't even take into account all the other crap that can easily be paired with it).
Ok I'm seriously not trying to diminish the point of the thread, or be a troll, but do I have this right ? Once the allmighty mage is again on top of the PvP heap, will it then be "balanced" ? Or is this literally about a simple win/loss record of equal proportions ? What is balanced ? The person with the fastest ping should always win every fight regardless of template ? Is that balanced ? Help me understand this balance, because I just don't.

And off topic, I went to hit "edit" to correct a typo and was quickly shown the other one of mine I had missed, and like 12 of yours LOL...ok back on topic.
 

CovenantX

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1) Karma isn't a real requirement.
It's a requirement, I understand it's very easily maintained (also takes no skill investment). but Necromancy works the same way with negative karma (to a similar, but lesser extent)

2) This isnt about changing chivalry, this is about changing remove curse. The reason for remove curse needing to be changed is due to the introduction of Holy Fist and it becoming an all encompassing offensive and defensive power house.
One offensive Mastery spell warrants a 33-50% speed reduction in one defensive Chivalry spell. not necessary, Holy-fist isn't that hard to live through

3) The power of chivalry is further just augmented by the fact that you no longer need to give anything up to be a 4/6 chiver (13 years ago you needed to add meditation and drop resist or healing or anat or some other skill to make the temp remotely viable and even then you probably weren't all 70's with max mr and mana increase on every piece). Today, you don't run out of mana and you can easily augment Chiv's great defensive spells by incorporating Spellweaving, bushido, alchemy, resist, and/or animal taming through jewels.
Necromancy can cause you to run out of mana if you use it correctly, the main reason I never liked to incorporate suits into the argument is because suits as a whole have gotten better for every template, not just chivalry.

On a mage the only way to kill the pali is by stacking debuffs and quickly dealing out damage, which is near impossible with the Remove Curse cast time and mana cost (won't even take into account all the other crap that can easily be paired with it).
a Mage stacking debuffs? Those debuffs being Poison & Curse. both of which are removed by two different spells.

a Necro-mage can render chivalry less useful. (=X), everyone seems to be going right around it.
Spell-weaving can reduce casting speed/recovery, as well as cause additional interrupts with summons*.
Mysticism can slow casting to those without resist, as well as having a very good defensive lineup, if you use mystic mastery... can cause mana issues to targets as well as restore mana to the mystic. There are many counters that almost no one uses....

Honestly, it seems to me the problem is everyone wants to remain at 30% sdi (focus spec) and be able to kill everything with similar tactics & difficulty.
 

Fridgster

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The best part is everyone that mentioned necromancy has Yet to mention the "Best spell" necromancy has to offer (am I the only person that uses it?).
sad day.
I'm dying here. I really enjoy necro, but not sure which you are talking about. I do like Exorcism when my miner gets attacked by someone who doesn't see my 2 skeletal dragons with me :)
 

Troll The T Hunter

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"The only way you'll kill a 4/6 chiv 1v1 is if their internet goes/client crash. I've tried it more than once, and everything I do is just pointless since they cast so fast. They can't kill me either though, even with Fist, so it's a wash. If their mana pools weren't so ridiculous, it'd be simple to just run them out of mana."

This is the part I don't get, if a chiv can't kill a mage and a mage can't kill the chiv person how is this unbalanced? This isn't directed at you but more to the original poster whom i assume is upset that he can't kill chiv players but are they killing him?

I haven't played a chiv character for a few years but I did had imbue back then and i ran a 4/6 with all the spells you mentioned except "holy fist" it starting to sound like the main compliant here should be "holy fist" because people have been running 4/6 chiv characters for a long time without complaints about remove curse. so if anything has changed its "Holy fist"

The question I would like to ask the original poster is can people running chivalry kill you everytime and you can never kill them?
 

drcossack

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"The only way you'll kill a 4/6 chiv 1v1 is if their internet goes/client crash. I've tried it more than once, and everything I do is just pointless since they cast so fast. They can't kill me either though, even with Fist, so it's a wash. If their mana pools weren't so ridiculous, it'd be simple to just run them out of mana."

This is the part I don't get, if a chiv can't kill a mage and a mage can't kill the chiv person how is this unbalanced? This isn't directed at you but more to the original poster whom i assume is upset that he can't kill chiv players but are they killing him?

I haven't played a chiv character for a few years but I did had imbue back then and i ran a 4/6 with all the spells you mentioned except "holy fist" it starting to sound like the main compliant here should be "holy fist" because people have been running 4/6 chiv characters for a long time without complaints about remove curse. so if anything has changed its "Holy fist"

The question I would like to ask the original poster is can people running chivalry kill you everytime and you can never kill them?
The thing with Paith is, when he pvp's, he only does so in a group, and the only role he has is to be the guy that casts curse/keeps the target cursed. The dexers he's with do all the damage, but I haven't seen them that often lately. I'm not sure if they're playing other shards (I do know they primarily played Atl), other games, or just not playing since they can't abuse Mortal like they used to. He's likely attempting to "balance" Chivalry so that he/his group can kill people again. Unfortunately, group vs single target is not how you balance pvp.

Is there a slight imbalance in mage vs 4/6 chiv, largely due to the casting difference? Of course. But there are ways to deal with it, even if a 1v1 between the two templates will ultimately end in a draw.

Before Holy Fist was ever a thing (Hell, even before the introduction of Bard masteries), I've seen several Chiv dexers in action, and fought a few. They all had one thing in common, even years ago: They were hard as hell to kill, with their offensive capabilities varying based on the skill of the player. That hasn't changed, and that's fine - it's the main purpose of the Paladin class in RPGs.
 

cobb

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"The only way you'll kill a 4/6 chiv 1v1 is if their internet goes/client crash. I've tried it more than once, and everything I do is just pointless since they cast so fast. They can't kill me either though, even with Fist, so it's a wash. If their mana pools weren't so ridiculous, it'd be simple to just run them out of mana."

This is the part I don't get, if a chiv can't kill a mage and a mage can't kill the chiv person how is this unbalanced? This isn't directed at you but more to the original poster whom i assume is upset that he can't kill chiv players but are they killing him?

I haven't played a chiv character for a few years but I did had imbue back then and i ran a 4/6 with all the spells you mentioned except "holy fist" it starting to sound like the main compliant here should be "holy fist" because people have been running 4/6 chiv characters for a long time without complaints about remove curse. so if anything has changed its "Holy fist"

The question I would like to ask the original poster is can people running chivalry kill you everytime and you can never kill them?
The OP has even admitted himself that he has never been killed by a Chiv char even before the Holy Fist nerf.
 

Great DC

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The only reason chivalry has become talked about in pvp is cause of Holy fist period. Nothing is wrong with the chivalry skill itself or its casting. But chivalry is meant for paladin templates, Only reason it can become OP is due to what I stated in the thread I created. Its comboing a high damage spell with pets and other casting skills and still being able to cast at 4/6. Chivalry needs a pure setup just like magery/eval, necro/ss to even the pvp side out. Imagine if you could do 30SDI damage plus use a dread and weaving on a mage. Its no different with chivalry, offensive chivalry spells should take a damage hit when combined with taming weaving bushido, just like every other pure template setup. Strictly holy fist spam will never kill anyone 1v1. Remove curse is not an issue, as a pure paladin players would have to use wep and shield to play pure which means they take a loss at pot chugging. That was the real reason for the 4/6 to begin with.

Side Note: I know the spell @CovenantX is referring to in necro. ;)
 

CovenantX

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The OP has even admitted himself that he has never been killed by a Chiv char even before the Holy Fist nerf.
This is a case where his ego backfires and works against him in his arguement. -referring to the OP.
 

PaithanTheElf

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This is a case where his ego backfires and works against him in his arguement. -referring to the OP.
My argument has to do with how fast it is cast and how many curses the spell can remove.

I didn't die to holy fist 1v1 when it was 50 damage uninterruptible, but guess what..i pvp and could easily identify that it was overpowered. So far your points have been non existent.
 

CovenantX

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My argument has to do with how fast it is cast and how many curses the spell can remove.

I didn't die to holy fist 1v1 when it was 50 damage uninterruptible, but guess what..i pvp and could easily identify that it was overpowered. So far your points have been non existent.
Your argument involved (not limited to) necromancy being worthless because of remove curse. I said it's not, pointed out viable counters, along with counters other spell-schools offer.
My points are non-existent, hahaha omg, where are your "existent" points?

Unfortunately for you, I know how you play, you have an ego (the quote above proves this, thanks btw), though it's constructive, (IMO) it's unnecessary.
Btw, if you don't want people to disagree and bring valid arguments to the table- Don't ask for it. =X

Only valid arguments on how you think it is or is not fair. Thanks.
 

Tyrath

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I'm not sure you answered my question. are chivalry templates killing you more then your templates are killing them?
He can't kill them and they can't kill him is what I get from it. Therefore Chiv is over powered. Over powered to me would be if the Chiv guy was steam rolling him but by his own admission that is not the case. The Chiv template can simply hold its own and escape or stand and fight to a draw. Since there are multiple ways to get around chiv at 4/6 I am just not seeing the problem, other than he does not want to adapt or can't figure out how to counter chiv.
 

Captn Norrington

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Everyone, please remember not to use personal attacks or insults against other poster in your responses.

Multiple posts from multiple people have been removed. Calling someone an idiot, a troll, a loser etc. all count as insults and can result in a warning being sent. Using a person's religion and ethnicity to insult them will not be tolerated, I am very disappointed that someone actually did that today.

Posting the insults in another language does not mean that we don't know what you posted......someone tried that today as well.

This is now the second time today a moderator has had to post in this thread due to people attacking each other.

This is a good discussion and many good points have been made, but the insults and personal attacks towards other posters are uncalled for.

Thank you to everyone who has been following the rules, we appreciate it :)
 

Finley Grant

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Its funny that always some folks crawling out some holes and request adjusents to a mmorpg for their Personal advantage.

Uo is not only pvp its also pvm where remove curse is very useful.

All of the time people request Nerv this bump that.

It seems no one realises that some skills are better for a task than other.

I am waiting for the first guy who request that his worker needs defensice Features on working skils because his worker is too easy to kill in pvp or Offensive abilities because throwing the Smith Hammer do not instakill everyone Thor's hammer like or some other nonsense...

I am wondering that these "unbalanced stuff" ( if it really is unbalanced what I don't believe) is not showing up on Test center after adding new stuff go game as its mentioned several times "stuff changes bla"
Maybe because most of those focus groups contins only some Kind of "weekend wannabe soldiers" instead of pvp Professionals who know what to look at while testing.

Maybe it's worth to look at the whole picture what a Nerv / bump may do for a profession.
 
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Finley Grant

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What have the trammie PVMers ever lost? I keep seeing this sentiment echoed on these forums that the PVPers always get changes that ruin tram PVM. When has this happened and how? There are tons of viable templates in PVM and reducing max FC from remove curse is something that would BARELY affect any tram PVM, but have a profound positive effect on PVP.

It really just sounds like you guys just make up stuff in your heads in an effort to play the victim card.

Lol i dont think that you heard the Bang.

These "trammie" guys are the reason that you still can play uo. Without them having that massive amount of open accounts this game would Bein shut off years ago.
 

Finley Grant

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The only way you'll kill a 4/6 chiv 1v1 is if their internet goes/client crash. I've tried it more than once, and everything I do is just pointless since they cast so fast. They can't kill me either though, even with Fist, so it's a wash. If their mana pools weren't so ridiculous, it'd be simple to just run them out of mana.

If nothing else, I'd like a slight reduction in the cast time so it's not so easy to spam. Or a slight buff in the mana cost.
Well it seems u somehow know what you speak about and even more did some Kind of testing.

You have the perfect answer. You fough a 4/6 chiv guy. No one could kill each other.

This looks very balanced to me. No need for Nerf anything.
 

Kiss Of Death

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CRYING about one spell of AGE OF SHADOWS, IE YEAR 2003 !!!!!! NOBODY EVER COMPLAINED ABOUT REMOVE CURSE SINCE 2003 !!!!!!!

AHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL , learn to pvp better.

THE TEMPLATE IS MEANT TO BE VERY DEFENSIVE HAHAHAH, I THOUGHT I READ MANY STUPID THINGS BUT THIS IS PROLLY N. 1

:facepalm:
 

Kiss Of Death

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Well, like I said it's difficult, but it's the same difference of interrupting a mages magic arrow, the first interrupt is the hardest.
I will say though, one mild advantage Chivalry does have is that the spells cannot be overcasted. (the courser always comes up unless it's interrupted)

Edit: with the gear you suggested having a shield brings up a more specific template, indicating parry may/may not be involved. but another option is to have FC on your weapon, then the choices are:
1) do you go with anti-disarm (disarm would hurt you even more in this situation)
OR
2) do you go with chivalry>Holyfist?

Covenant, what I find HILARIOUS is that Paithan etc were abusing curse bugs, lmc bugged chars and everything possible. Do you see them asking to get these bugs removed? no....

They complain about things that are ridicolous ( in this case a spell of year 2003 ), just because they CANNOT insta kill someone so they need more advantages to their own templates, ie he plays with 4-5 archers with suits worth billions shooting mortal and ais at 1.25 speed....

I find it funny tbh , also a bit pathetic but still....:yell:
 

Acid Rain

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Quick side note on Necromancy -

Necromancy current has very few useful PvP spells.

Blood Oath = If you understand the mechanics this is still very deadly in pvp.
Blood Oath is irrelevant & has been for years. Pinco's UI has a script that AUTO-TOGGLES players out of war mode when hit by Blood Oath.
Anyone in the EC has been laughing at Blood Oath in PvP for close to 5 years.
 

PaithanTheElf

Lore Keeper
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Stratics Legend
Covenant, what I find HILARIOUS is that Paithan etc were abusing curse bugs, lmc bugged chars and everything possible. Do you see them asking to get these bugs removed? no....

They complain about things that are ridicolous ( in this case a spell of year 2003 ), just because they CANNOT insta kill someone so they need more advantages to their own templates, ie he plays with 4-5 archers with suits worth billions shooting mortal and ais at 1.25 speed....

I find it funny tbh , also a bit pathetic but still....:yell:
Umm.. i posted that curse bug should be fixed and I am the one that made an LMC bugged character thread that got it fixed. lol.
 

PaithanTheElf

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Here are spells that have a much longer cast time than remove curse- but are removed every time.

Spell Plague (40 mana)
Strangle (29 mana)
Mass curse (20 mana)

Here are a list of curses that still have a much longer cast time but less mana that are removed every time:
Curse
Blood Oath
Corpse Skin
Mind Rot

Did some testing and you can easily remove up to 4 curses at once. At 5 curses it still removed all 5 on the first try 50% of the time.

Now why is a spell that removes these curses at least 2x shorter than every curse out there? It should be a 1:1 with the curses that aren't the biggest in game (i.e. curse, oath, corpse). Using the mana argument clearly isn't true because the top 3 are the biggest curses and you can remove ALL of them at once.
 

Finley Grant

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Because it should be always easier to defend an attacker than butchering people.

Also what sense would it make the Cast time for remove longer than for cursing

Then you can get rid of both type completely also as the result is always the same.

Mages which curse spam all other
 

Kiss Of Death

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they want to get all template advantages, ridicolous!!!

Why are we even debating on a spell of year 2003 ? Nobody ever complained.... It's embarassing even.

EVERY template has his weakness!!!!

on a chiv char the weakness is not that you keep the CURSE on him...but you MUST dismount and disarm !!!!!

learn to pvp please , thank you.

On an archer with the mastery of archery u cannot disarm anymore or once every 10 tries....the weakness??? to keep the curse on them....


EVERY TOON HAS HIS WEAKNESS , have one of each templates so you can have fun with all, stop crying all the time.
 

King Greg

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UNLEASHED
Really? Mass Curse?

Spell Plague does initial damage right off the bat, not to mention the bonus if you land any additional spells before they remove.

Would be pretty dumb to try to strangle someone who is spamming remove curse.
 

Kiss Of Death

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NECROMANCERS were made in 2003 with PALADINS....

It's the nemesis of the CHIV char.... you lose karma when you use a necro, for a chiv char to work at best you need ALWAYS 25 THOUSANDS karma.....

so....what are we discussing here?

NECROS are great in DUNGEONS and in choke points areas!!!!

PALADINS - CHIV CHARS are mainly DEFENSIVE chars and if you want to go REALLY offensive you expose yourself to getting disarmed pwned with splinter weapons....

Every char have a weakness!!!

THE GAME IS SUPER BALANCED NOW, the people who cry I really cannot understand.

NOBODY CAN KILL ONE ANOTHER WITHIN FEW SECONDS!!! AT LEAST FOR COMPETENT PLAYERS!
 

Tyrath

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NOBODY CAN KILL ONE ANOTHER WITHIN FEW SECONDS!!! AT LEAST FOR COMPETENT PLAYERS!
I am very far from a competent PvP but am very competent in evading and escaping and run Chiv and resist for the very purpose of being HARD TO KILL This is nothing new, I have pretty much been running those on my fel farmers and Siege farmers since Age of Stuff. Why because it is a effective counter to most PvP templates in particular spamming mages. Granted the mana and MR on suits has allowed me to drop intelligence back to 40 and put dex up to 100 and str at 120 and have the same mana pool. The point is I am no more over powered on my Chiv Resist miner, LJ, macer, tactics hiding and jeweled up stealth character than I was 10 years ago. I just swing a little faster knocking the els and hide critters down.. and capping HCI/DCI is a lot easier but again something every other template does or can do. Now I could add taming and lore and transfer a dread and still would only be on the low end of competitive in PvP. I think the real problem here is more people are using the Chiv template to greater effect and some of the PvPs either don't want to or can't figure out the Paladins weakness, and yes we have several that very few PvPs/Pks bother to use. we are actually very easy to keep disrupted, but you just are not going to score high hitting insta kills on us. As a PvM fel ruleset player I am there to farm and build the best template to retain what I have farmed and that means a highly defensive character with the ability to hide/invis pot/ smoke bomb and stealth away with the goods. Not get rolled and looted and yes I run 4/6 and there are certain PvPs that make my escapes very difficult and the majority I wonder why they provide no challenge at all to me escaping when it is so easy to do. What this thread really comes down to is someone wants to spam 3-5 second kills and hit a brick wall with the paladin template and can't or won't adapt to be effective against it. None of this is new, the only thing new is more people using the paladin template and hybrids of it since Holy Fist came out.
 

PaithanTheElf

Lore Keeper
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Stratics Legend
Keep it on topic. Because I have no idea what you mean. Other than t
Because it should be always easier to defend an attacker than butchering people.

Also what sense would it make the Cast time for remove longer than for cursing

Then you can get rid of both type completely also as the result is always the same.

Mages which curse spam all other
From what I could comprehend from your post... i never said removing a curse should be longer than the curse. I said it should be the same cast as the faster curses (curse, oath, corpse) etc.
 

PaithanTheElf

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
NECROMANCERS were made in 2003 with PALADINS....

It's the nemesis of the CHIV char.... you lose karma when you use a necro, for a chiv char to work at best you need ALWAYS 25 THOUSANDS karma.....

so....what are we discussing here?

NECROS are great in DUNGEONS and in choke points areas!!!!

PALADINS - CHIV CHARS are mainly DEFENSIVE chars and if you want to go REALLY offensive you expose yourself to getting disarmed pwned with splinter weapons....

Every char have a weakness!!!

THE GAME IS SUPER BALANCED NOW, the people who cry I really cannot understand.

NOBODY CAN KILL ONE ANOTHER WITHIN FEW SECONDS!!! AT LEAST FOR COMPETENT PLAYERS!
This had nothing to do with remove curse and how fast it is compared to the curses out there. Thanks.
 

PaithanTheElf

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I am very far from a competent PvP but am very competent in evading and escaping and run Chiv and resist for the very purpose of being HARD TO KILL This is nothing new, I have pretty much been running those on my fel farmers and Siege farmers since Age of Stuff. Why because it is a effective counter to most PvP templates in particular spamming mages. Granted the mana and MR on suits has allowed me to drop intelligence back to 40 and put dex up to 100 and str at 120 and have the same mana pool. The point is I am no more over powered on my Chiv Resist miner, LJ, macer, tactics hiding and jeweled up stealth character than I was 10 years ago. I just swing a little faster knocking the els and hide critters down.. and capping HCI/DCI is a lot easier but again something every other template does or can do. Now I could add taming and lore and transfer a dread and still would only be on the low end of competitive in PvP. I think the real problem here is more people are using the Chiv template to greater effect and some of the PvPs either don't want to or can't figure out the Paladins weakness, and yes we have several that very few PvPs/Pks bother to use. we are actually very easy to keep disrupted, but you just are not going to score high hitting insta kills on us. As a PvM fel ruleset player I am there to farm and build the best template to retain what I have farmed and that means a highly defensive character with the ability to hide/invis pot/ smoke bomb and stealth away with the goods. Not get rolled and looted and yes I run 4/6 and there are certain PvPs that make my escapes very difficult and the majority I wonder why they provide no challenge at all to me escaping when it is so easy to do. What this thread really comes down to is someone wants to spam 3-5 second kills and hit a brick wall with the paladin template and can't or won't adapt to be effective against it. None of this is new, the only thing new is more people using the paladin template and hybrids of it since Holy Fist came out.
Again nothing to do with how fast remove curse is vs the curses it takes off and the amount it takes off.

This game is supposed to be balanced. So remove curse should balance the curses not be able to make them irrelevant with cast speeds way faster.

I took into consideration your first sentence of how you aren't a competent pvper, which pretty much sums up why you aren't aware of what you are talking about, but decided to respond anyways.
 

PaithanTheElf

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Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Then why is a large part of your argument based on exactly that?
My argument is simple.

Remove curse removes far too many curses AND is 2x (minimum) faster than all the curses out there. There needs to be balance. Hope that clears it up for you, bud.
 
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