Sad State of Siege Economy

[Bo Bo]

bo doesnt, but not all pvpers are bo. You want them here you gotta cater a little.
And you really think that everyone is playin on the same field. Vets on this shard have the largest advantage over the competition.
it wsa already stated in this thread. Lets not forget bout things like those really nice blessed spell books, dont see noobs buying those.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

You'd be surprised what a group of players can get done if they put their minds to it. Since my return, I have yet to see any group larger than 3 people. If a guild of PvPers moved in and got training, I could easily see a horde of them get involved and start winning fights pretty quickly.

Remember how deadly the ORCs used to be? They didn't have all the decked out gear, but they certainly got a group to work together and take care of very well equipped players...la

 

[Bo Bo]

was a different game back than. you cant compare old days to todays current version. Gear is too hard to keep up on if you are a pvper. Most pvpers on siege didnt mind stat loss because it took you atleast that long to put another suit together.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

That fact that players these days feel they "need" to suit up is sad. I guess I'm glad I never got into the PvP scene. Playing a thief I usually run around with gear I've stolen or a set of GM leather. The idea that I would have to farm to actually play would suck.

That being said, why not work with other players like role play groups or the old duelers did? Set parameters up in what can be worn and stick to them. If someone comes out all geared up...refuse the fight. The shard can be played how you like...but if gear is holding the PvP back...why not try to fix it so it doesn't?...la

 

[SpyderBite]

Remember how deadly the ORCs used to be? They didn't have all the decked out gear, but they certainly got a group to work together and take care of very well equipped players...la

Excellent example! Also, the Savages.. pretty much the same angle as well as efficiency in a fight while geared with little more than weapons and face paint.

Iantown also comes to mind. Just about everybody that lived there wore GM crafted armor and whatever weapons we could get our hands on that were half way decent. But, when the town was attacked (Best times EVAH!) it was hard to beat 15 or 20 people which consisted of about 4 or 5 seasoned PvPers and the rest were crafters/RP, etc.

Meh. I'm still thinking that the economy is and the community and the game mechanics have rolled too far down the other side of the hill to recover. I'm all for trying. But if history repeats itself, there will be a dozens of people with dozens of opinions of what should change and how it should be changed. I'm not trying to be negative. But the most community I've seen since I've been back is the chatter in General Chat. I'm sure some of the larger guilds have little tight knit micro-communities which is great. But where is the interaction with the rest of the community excluding posting here or showing up at EM/Governor Meetings?

 

[FrejaSP]

That kinda already exists in the New Magincia stalls doesn't it? You would just need to convince people to actually use them and stock them.

Think it's about time you give Siege a try. On Siege we use the community vendors, not as much to sell, as the fee is to high but more to buy stuff as our NPC's do not buy any wares, trading is between players.

Just a random question for you, does duping exist on Siege? That's always been the main source of huge inflation on production shards, not sure what would cause Siege inflation other than hoarding if it doesn't exist there.

As we don't have shard transfer, we do not have duping. Also as our NPC vendors do not buy stuff, you don't get a lot gold added to the system that way. Think Rico's concern was, that in the past, Vet Rewards was 100k a year. But sinse we got some great rewards sinse he last played and a lot more rewards to choose from, they now cost 1 mill a year but the first levels may sell for more as there is a demand for this rewards, when a player join Siege and miss all his rewards on old shard.

Please excuse the ignorance if I'm wrong, since Siege isn't my main shard....but isn't it kinda easy to get a castle or keep on Siege anyway since there's so few players and so much land? I know on other shards with low population like Oceania you can pretty much go out and find a spot to place a castle in about an hour.

You won't find a castle spot, you may be lucky to place if one fall, but you won't be the only one trying and it is hard to place as ghost.
There are large free spot in Males as many of us don't really like Malas.

 

[FrejaSP]

You are spot on with this comment. Pkers did keep the economy chugging along. Maybe it's time to go recuit PvP guilds on other shards?

It's happened in the past, it can happen again...la

We have tried, they are Trammies, can't handle dying and losing stuff. Better if we could find some returning players from before Trammel or even some new players who never got use to item insurance.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Good luck finding veterans to come back after the RtB is closed. Personally, if they made the RtB longer and even gave those accounts more restrictions, I think they would have a better chance to have people come back and re-open their accounts.

Many of the vets who left the game are playing on player run servers. I've talked with many of them over the years...UO as it is (even Siege) is dead to them. As long as people can get their old school PvP on (especially when it's free)...they are going to choose that over paying 14 bucks a month for a game they don't even recognize...la

 

[FrejaSP]

was a different game back than. you cant compare old days to todays current version. Gear is too hard to keep up on if you are a pvper. Most pvpers on siege didnt mind stat loss because it took you atleast that long to put another suit together.

Guilds are the key here, with new loot, it should not be a problem for crafters in a guild to make high level gear. With VvV, you can have PvP'ers and non PvP'ers in same guild as the non PvP'ers can stay out of VvV.
The most powerful PK's we had on the shard, did make their own gear or had a guild to support them.
Only problem I have with making suits is the resist, it is time eating to get them right. Increase the basis resist on item on Siege so a crafted suit from colored resourses and with exp bonus and armslore bonus would be close to max resist. Then you are close to old GM armor and you only need to add the mods you want. That will spare a lot time and make the guild crafters more willing to help out guild mates.

 

[SpyderBite]

Free 2 Play... The shard would be busting at the seems. $14/month for a brand new MMO is laughable these days. Very few people are going to pay $14/month for a bit of nostalgia. Those who will are already here. The rest have already voted with their wallets.

 

[SpyderBite]

Guilds are the key here, with new loot, it should not be a problem for crafters in a guild to make high level gear. With VvV, you can have PvP'ers and non PvP'ers in same guild as the non PvP'ers can stay out of VvV.
The most powerful PK's we had on the shard, did make their own gear or had a guild to support them.

I agree. However, with the exception of NEW2.. there aren't many welcoming guilds to join on Siege. Years ago you could hang out with a guild and if you got along they'd recruit you. Whether that was taking you on hunts (VmP), becoming an initiate (KSS), etc.

Today, its hard to track down somebody from any of the existing guilds. They're either hidden in TeamSpeak/Vent and/or already content with their little cliques. I know NEW2 tries to place members in to guilds after their 30 days is up. What methods are you using to accomplish this?

Only problem I have with making suits is the resist, it is time eating to get them right. Increase the basis resist on item on Siege so a crafted suit from colored resourses and with exp bonus and armslore bonus would be close to max resist. Then you are close to old GM armor and you only need to add the mods you want. That will spare a lot time and make the guild crafters more willing to help out guild mates.

See there we go again changing game mechanics instead of behavior. The more we change the game, the more we break it as is evident in the state of the game today.

 

[Bo Bo]

Guilds are the key here, with new loot, it should not be a problem for crafters in a guild to make high level gear. With VvV, you can have PvP'ers and non PvP'ers in same guild as the non PvP'ers can stay out of VvV.
The most powerful PK's we had on the shard, did make their own gear or had a guild to support them.
Only problem I have with making suits is the resist, it is time eating to get them right. Increase the basis resist on item on Siege so a crafted suit from colored resourses and with exp bonus and armslore bonus would be close to max resist. Then you are close to old GM armor and you only need to add the mods you want. That will spare a lot time and make the guild crafters more willing to help out guild mates.

your idea of a good suit and a pvpers idea of a good suit are two different things.

 

[FrejaSP]

your idea of a good suit and a pvpers idea of a good suit are two different things.

What are a good suit for you, tell me the mods

 

[FrejaSP]

I agree. However, with the exception of NEW2.. there aren't many welcoming guilds to join on Siege. Years ago you could hang out with a guild and if you got along they'd recruit you. Whether that was taking you on hunts (VmP), becoming an initiate (KSS), etc.

Today, its hard to track down somebody from any of the existing guilds. They're either hidden in TeamSpeak/Vent and/or already content with their little cliques. I know NEW2 tries to place members in to guilds after their 30 days is up. What methods are you using to accomplish this?

NEW2 is not doing to well at the moment, we have very few members, not sure why. Maybe because we only have few PK's or because they can buy a token and get 5x90 skill and don't really need NEW2. Also RL keep stealing my guildleaders playtime.
When I try help them finding a guild, I have books with guild info for some of the guilds and the http://community.stratics.com/guilds/ help too as many Siege guilds do have a page there. I also speak with them to try to find out what kind of guild they are looking for and try to tell them who to contact
..

 

[GarthGrey]

There are a LOT of pvp voices missing from this thread, a lot of Siege voices period. That should tell everyone something right there.

 

[SpyderBite]

There are a LOT of pvp voices missing from this thread, a lot of Siege voices period. That should tell everyone something right there.

Can't argue with that. Some may counter by saying only a small percentage of players read the forums. However, I'd have to say the opposite is true about the passively-challenged on our shard.

I've always PvP'd. With the exception of when I ran with VmP, I've never actually gone looking for fights. But, I never run from them either. And, I'll always join in on one if I happen to stumble upon a fight. Of course, with that said, I fight in GM armor and weapons I find on player run vendors. So, I'm not playing in the same league as somebody such as Bo.

 

[Spiffykeen]

Hey, I still sell tools for 99 gp and repair deeds for 60! Don't pancake at me about inflation!

 

[SpyderBite]

NEW2 is not doing to well at the moment, we have very few members, not sure why. Maybe because we only have few PK's or because they can buy a token and get 5x90 skill and don't really need NEW2. Also RL keep stealing my guildleaders playtime.

Sorry to hear that NEW2 is a little slow these days. Everybody I know always points new players in the direction of NEW2. However, like you said, without leaders online, its hard to get them corralled in before they log out. :/

When I try help them finding a guild, I have books with guild info for some of the guilds and the http://community.stratics.com/guilds/ help too as many Siege guilds do have a page there. I also speak with them to try to find out what kind of guild they are looking for and try to tell them who to contact
..

And that's always been helpful in the past. The problem today is that there are what.. 2 maybe 3 large guilds left on Siege? I don't see them actively recruiting and with the exception of a couple of members in general chat, interacting with the community at all.

 

[SpyderBite]

Hey, I still sell tools for 99 gp and repair deeds for 60! Don't pancake at me about inflation!

Except when I buy them out.. forget about ever buying sewing kits from Talia. My Gate is faster than yours. XD

 

[Bo Bo]

mage suit 40+lmc 100 lmc 40 int, 25 hp, pending if runnin parry 15 dex, casting focus 6% or higher, 30 sdi, mr 12 or higher, hpr 10 or higher, all 70s, pending on template +25 parry or resist, oh yeah dci 45+, 2/6 casting.
Bo's suit was a beserker suit, with 45lmc, 25 hpi, 30 int, 20 dex, enchance pots 50+, skills on jewels 25+, max hci, max dci, max ssi, 70s resist, hpr 16 or higher, as close to 100 di as possible.
prolly forgettin a couple of things. Due to guard wacking and losing client, even the Bo is running out of gear.

 

[WhiteWitch]

One way of getting new players might be to make the game free to play, but subscription if you want to place a house, as most current players want houses it probably wont hurt their profits too badly, and many of these players who joined and played for free would get into the game, want a house and subscribe.

I imagine there are a few unforeseen consequences though, for instance it would get around the char limit on Siege, the char limit was there to ensure you could never have all the skills to do everything and thus would need other people, but the fact is soul stones have already negated that so there is little point still having that char limit apart from to milk us for soul stone token cash.

The sub as it stands now is pretty high compared to other MMO's, since I came back to UO about 8 months ago I've tried to get a few people I know to try it too, their first responses are "omg it looks so old" and "£12 a month, that's a lot more than <insert modern prettier MMO here>".

UO is a better game with more depth as we know, I think the problem is new players wont give it a shot due to the above issues, the second issue they could at least address.

 

[SpyderBite]

How the hell did I hit you twice in that suit the other day??

 

[Captn Norrington]

This seems to come up in every discussion about the games economy.....everyone....Mesanna already said they will never be doing free to play becuase UO isn't built that way, the game just isn't coded in a way where free to play would be compatible. It would be awesome if it went free to play, but according to the devs it never will. It could be possible to get them to lower the subscription fee eventually, but I highly doubt they would ever do that since no ones going to quit the game over paying an extra dollar or two every month.

 

[WhiteWitch]

it not about people quitting the game, it about people joining it

 

[FrejaSP]

mage suit 40+lmc 100 lmc 40 int, 25 hp, pending if runnin parry 15 dex, casting focus 6% or higher, 30 sdi, mr 12 or higher, hpr 10 or higher, all 70s, pending on template +25 parry or resist, oh yeah dci 45+, 2/6 casting.
Bo's suit was a beserker suit, with 45lmc, 25 hpi, 30 int, 20 dex, enchance pots 50+, skills on jewels 25+, max hci, max dci, max ssi, 70s resist, hpr 16 or higher, as close to 100 di as possible.
prolly forgettin a couple of things. Due to guard wacking and losing client, even the Bo is running out of gear.

If VvV could get suits like that easy as VvV rewards, we would again see reds run around in overpowered suits, non VvV'ers could not use or match without lots of farming or paying mills to get new suits.
Without VvV artifacts, you can still get high level gear but it will be expensive and the ones who success killing you can use it. I think that level the fields. You can still fight in less powerful stuff, sure you may die more, but you do not need that kind of overpowered gear to kill most of your victims.
Maybe more would be willing to fight back, if they had a chance to at least fight a while before they die.

 

[Captn Norrington]

it not about people quitting the game, it about people joining it

I highly doubt a $10 subscription is the difference between someone trying the game or not. The subscription only really matters to veteran players who have paid it for years, a new player really would not care if it's $10, $8, or $5. It's still extremely low compared to the monthly costs of other hobbies and daily life.

 

[Bo Bo]

If VvV could get suits like that easy as VvV rewards, we would again see reds run around in overpowered suits, non VvV'ers could not use or match without lots of farming or paying mills to get new suits.
Without VvV artifacts, you can still get high level gear but it will be expensive and the ones who success killing you can use it. I think that level the fields. You can still fight in less powerful stuff, sure you may die more, but you do not need that kind of overpowered gear to kill most of your victims.
Maybe more would be willing to fight back, if they had a chance to at least fight a while before they die.

how many times does bo have to say it, that is what bo currently wears. The lack of arties create are huge gap between bo and bo's opponents. The bo can afford to lose such gear most people newer to the shard cant. If and when bo loots bo gets generic barbed imbued crap.

 

[WhiteWitch]

I highly doubt a $10 subscription is the difference between someone trying the game or not. The subscription only really matters to veteran players who have paid it for years, a new player really would not care if it's $10, $8, or $5. It's still extremely low compared to the monthly costs of other hobbies and daily life.

Yes it might be low compared to a cigarette habit or model railways or whatever, but its NOT low compared to the competition, its infact higher, show almost any game player a video of UO, then a video of World of Warcraft, then ask them which they would like to play, you have to get people through the door so they can properly see the content, because on first impression most of the more modern MMOs look a lot better, and have cheaper subs.

Yes I know its BS, it should be about content, much as it should be about personality rather than looks etc etc

 

[Captn Norrington]

Yes it might be low compared to a cigarette habit or model railways or whatever, but its NOT low compared to the competition, its infact higher, show almost any game player a video of UO, then a video of World of Warcraft, then ask them which they would like to play, you have to get people through the door so they can properly see the content, because on first impression most of the more modern MMOs look a lot better, and have cheaper subs.

Yes I know its BS, it should be about content, much as it should be about personality rather than looks etc etc

Looked up some prices online.

Star Wars the Old Republic (SWOTR) Price per month: $14.99

World of Warcraft (WoW) Price per month: $14.99

Ultima Online (UO) Price per month: $12.99

Shroud of the Avatar (SotA) Price per month: Free to play and hasn't been released yet, but will be sold for $60 in stores as one time purchase.

It seems that UO is already cheaper than many online games with subscriptions.

 

[Kattasrophe]

NEW2 is not doing to well at the moment, we have very few members, not sure why. Maybe because we only have few PK's or because they can buy a token and get 5x90 skill and don't really need NEW2. Also RL keep stealing my guildleaders playtime.
When I try help them finding a guild, I have books with guild info for some of the guilds and the http://community.stratics.com/guilds/ help too as many Siege guilds do have a page there. I also speak with them to try to find out what kind of guild they are looking for and try to tell them who to contact
..

Yes... I uh deffinetly have reality stealing me away With my Uncle now being ill due to cancer, finding time to play is getting harder and harder.

 

[WhiteWitch]

Ok sorry, I stand corrected, seems these companies only screw over UK(and probably European) subscribers where it is more expensive to subscribe to UO than it is for wow

17/12/13 05823281 World Of Warcraft Sub Scunthorpe No £8.99

15/05/14 35060083 Ea.Com/Cs Mythic Ent Geneva £9.99


Incidentally SWTOR offers a free to play option, it is of course limited in some ways but that was what I was suggesting they should do with UO

 

[kelmo]

I agree with some of the things posted in this thread. *nods*

 

[Captn Norrington]

I agree with some of the things posted in this thread. *nods*

Are we allowed to know which things...? lol

 

[Tjalle]

Free 2 Play... The shard would be busting at the seems. $14/month for a brand new MMO is laughable these days. Very few people are going to pay $14/month for a bit of nostalgia. Those who will are already here. The rest have already voted with their wallets.

I see this subscription fee argument in a lot of threads and I still don´t buy it.
10-14 bucks for a month of enjoyment is nothing. It costs more than that for just one ticket at the movies here in Sweden.

 

[Captn Norrington]

It's about the same price as a large popcorn at the movies here in the US lol, the ticket is about $20 too.

 

[Tjalle]

And that's always been helpful in the past. The problem today is that there are what.. 2 maybe 3 large guilds left on Siege? I don't see them actively recruiting and with the exception of a couple of members in general chat, interacting with the community at all.

Afaik GIL doesn´t actively recruit. Players usually seek us out and we give them a try unless we have a reason not to.
And tbh, I´d rather see new players end up in the smaller guilds to up their numbers or create guilds of their own than joining GIL just because of our numbers.

Because we definately need more active guilds on Siege...

 

[SpyderBite]

Looked up some prices online.

Star Wars the Old Republic (SWOTR) Price per month: $14.99

World of Warcraft (WoW) Price per month: $14.99

Ultima Online (UO) Price per month: $12.99

Shroud of the Avatar (SotA) Price per month: Free to play and hasn't been released yet, but will be sold for $60 in stores as one time purchase.

It seems that UO is already cheaper than many online games with subscriptions.

All of these with the exception of UO are free to play.. the subscriptions are optional.

 

[SpyderBite]

It's about the same price as a large popcorn at the movies here in the US lol, the ticket is about $20 too.

I spend $28/month on UO (two accounts). I pay nothing in subscriptions per month in GW2 or Neverwinter. However on an average month I'll spend $100-$300 in either of the latter games. Fiscally it is stupid for UO to continue with the antiquated subscription model. Subscriptions should be optional for access to exclusive content or for fluff items as it is in WoW, SWtOR and EQ2.

As for free 2 play not working with UO mechanics.. that's ridiculous. There are at least 20 servers out there that are mysteriously similar to UO that have been running for years without a subscription.

 

[Captn Norrington]

As for free 2 play not working with UO mechanics.. that's ridiculous. There are at least 20 servers out there that are mysteriously similar to UO that have been running for years without a subscription.

Ah but you forgot one key detail, the other 20 servers have passionate volunteers who enjoy improving the game...and we have burnt out devs who have already been here 10+ years lol.

 

[FrejaSP]

Yes... I uh deffinetly have reality stealing me away With my Uncle now being ill due to cancer, finding time to play is getting harder and harder.

It's ok Katt, RL > UO, don't feel bad about that.

 

[FrejaSP]

how many times does bo have to say it, that is what bo currently wears. The lack of arties create are huge gap between bo and bo's opponents. The bo can afford to lose such gear most people newer to the shard cant. If and when bo loots bo gets generic barbed imbued crap.

If everyone only run in gear they can affort replace, dying may not be so hard. It's Bo's choice to run upper gear, but I only hear Bo cry about not having VvV artifacts, maybe Bo did not play at the time where Factions artifacts almost killed the shard and made guilds like GIL give up PvP as there was no way to fight an over powered Faction PK other than to join Faction wich was not the playstyles they wanted or I me and TDO wanted.
Now all can play in the gear they can affort. If Bo choose to play in upper gear, the young PvP'ers may feel Bo is like a wandering treasure chest to get a good loot. That may be hard for Bo, but that's Bo's choice, he could just run in less powwerful gear.

 

[Troop_Gil]

New players will always be broke so none of this really matters. Let's face it, we are not seeing droves of new players or returning players on any shard.

 

[SpyderBite]

Ah but you forgot one key detail, the other 20 servers have passionate volunteers who enjoy improving the game...and we have burnt out devs who have already been here 10+ years lol.

That's my point. Let the poor guys use their artistic talent to load up a marketplace with pretty fluff stuff so they can triple their salaries instead of wondering which company UO is going to be handed off to next. Perfect World let it slip at E3 that they were shocked at how much revenue had poured in during the first 6 months of Neverwinter. And followed it with "subscriptions suck!" directed at Blizzard.

Anyways. Its not a new argument. And I didn't have ground to stand on seven or eight years ago when I was paying for 3 or 4 subscriptions for different games. But, today, there really isn't any reason not to go Free To Play. Especially when a game such as UO is planning to compete with hundreds of other games, majority of which are Free to Play, on Steam.

I'll let it go though. I'm not that guy, you know the one. "UO is doomed.. they'll be out of business by next month!". But as it gets on in years; its hard to dismiss the numbers. *shrugs*

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

But as it gets on in years; its hard to dismiss the numbers. *shrugs*

I just wish over the years some whistle blower would have "leaked" the subscription numbers. Would be nice to know how many others are actually paying to play...la

 

[Val'lyn De'ana]

Let's face it, we are not seeing droves of new players or returning players on any shard.

While I may not be "droves" you can count me in as a returning player excited about playing on Siege.

 

[ApollyonSP]

So it seems the best choice for the shard is to start recruiting players from other shards.

We should all do this together, as a team. We must, otherwise what else will happen in the future?

We must revitalize the shard.

 

[Val'lyn De'ana]

I don't know how many of you frequent the existing player run servers, but that might be a place to start. I know I have spent some time on some of them and the players there often speak kindly of their days on Siege (kind of why I am coming back).

Reach out and tell them about the ability to check out their old accounts for the rest of the month. Who knows, maybe a few of them will renew their subscriptions if they like what they see.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

Agreed. Tempting old players with the RtB might be enough to get a half dozen or so to come back.

Heck, that would be a half dozen more people than I've spotted over the last few weeks.

Oh and welcome, it will be my pleasure lightening your pack from time to time...la


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bo Bo]

If everyone only run in gear they can affort replace, dying may not be so hard. It's Bo's choice to run upper gear, but I only hear Bo cry about not having VvV artifacts, maybe Bo did not play at the time where Factions artifacts almost killed the shard and made guilds like GIL give up PvP as there was no way to fight an over powered Faction PK other than to join Faction wich was not the playstyles they wanted or I me and TDO wanted.
Now all can play in the gear they can affort. If Bo choose to play in upper gear, the young PvP'ers may feel Bo is like a wandering treasure chest to get a good loot. That may be hard for Bo, but that's Bo's choice, he could just run in less powwerful gear.

You are totally missing Bo's point. It wasnt the faction gear that made the people good. Some people are just better than others. Bo went non factions when all you people here where crying bout faction gear and guess what. Bo killed just as many people with the gear as without it. Getting rid of the gear and having no replacement is going to hurt the shard. How many people did the new VvV draw to the server? NONE! Its a pvp system without any sort of rhyme or reason on Siege.

 

[Troop_Gil]

While I may not be "droves" you can count me in as a returning player excited about playing on Siege.

Welcome back. Give a shout out in chat if you need anything. Still a lot of helpful people on Siege.